The Podjacker Threat 354
Schlemphfer writes "As everyone knows by now, podcasting has taken off in a big way. But over the past week, several tech journals and The Daily Source Code have reported on the threat of 'podjacking,' the creation of an alternate RSS feed without the consent of the podcast's owner. I'm the host of a podcast, which has the dubious distinction of being the first widely-publicized victim of a podjacking. To teach others from my experiences I have posted an article entitled Preventing and Surviving a Podjacking (also available in PDF). So far this story has attracted widespread but generally
inept media and blogger
coverage. This article sets the record straight on what really happened, and shows the simple steps every podcaster should take to protect their shows from podjacking."
PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:5, Funny)
uh, uh, uh, uh, (Score:5, Funny)
er.... sorry, you caught me at a bad time, I was podjacking...
-everphilski-
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
I'm Lutheran (Score:2)
-everphilski-
Re:I'm Lutheran (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:uh, uh, uh, uh, (Score:2)
Re:uh, uh, uh, uh, (Score:3, Funny)
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:4, Funny)
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=b
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:2)
Podcast: Someone had the revolutionary idea of taking a compressed audio file and putting it online. Yeah, doesn't sound so sexy when I describe it for what it is, does it you morons? It would have been a great idea if streaming audio wasn't already around for over a decade before the word "podcast" entered the lexicon. Man, I can't stand the word "lexicon." Talking about all these shitty words has made me start using shitty words. I'm so pissed, I just slammed the door shut on some kid's nut
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:2)
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:2)
Does anyone actually pronounce it that way? I've never heard it pronounced as a word, just always with the letters spelled out, and I've been doing website design and management since '96.
Someone needs to take a stick out of whatever orifice it has been jammed up into.
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:5, Funny)
Those are perfectly cromulent words.
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:2)
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, Podjacking certainly sounds better (to the writer of the linked article anyway) then I'm-a-retard-who-doesn't-understand-how-the-inter
Yeeeesh. No doubt people foolish enough to get sucked into using the word 'podcast' will lap this up like the sheep they are....
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's rather amusing to observe these people thinking that they've invented a new medium when it's really just a minor variation on plain old web browsing.
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's rather amusing to observe these people thinking that they've invented a new medium when it's really just a minor variation on plain old web browsing.
Yeah, just like the web was just a minor variation on plain old FTP. Gee, yeah, all they've done is make an existing form of information phenomenally accessible.
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:3, Interesting)
Or would you rather be like the French and have some group decide what words can be allowed (not that actual French speakers listen to them much)?
Re:PLEASE, enough with the words! (Score:3, Interesting)
*Gnashes Teeth* (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:*Gnashes Teeth* (Score:5, Funny)
Eew!
*Scratches Head* (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously... It seems that stupid people decided on stupid terms so that they could express their stupid selves online even though they could have done it before. That's a lot of stupidity. And stupidity is an odd thing: It never gets used up. Maybe its like entropy, is always increasing...
Re:*Scratches Head* (Score:2, Informative)
Re:*Scratches Head* (Score:3, Informative)
Shorter. Fewer letters to type, fewer syllables to say.
Do you always refer to the "television set," or do you turn on the "TV" or "telly?" Do you drive a "horseless carriage" or "automobile"... or you you drive a "car?" Do people call your "cellular phone" or do they call your "cell?"
Same thing.
As for podcasting, it really is different from streaming audio. It's downloadable audio (or video) that is announced via a subscription system
WHAAAAAAAAT (Score:4, Funny)
Re:WHAAAAAAAAT (Score:2)
I'd modjack him down.
Re:*Gnashes Teeth* (Score:5, Funny)
It's official. English is officially jacked up.
Easy (Score:3, Insightful)
Not only will this allow the wider distribution of your ramblings, but also help save on bandwidth.
Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:2, Flamebait)
I'm almost part of this group of old people since I'm in my mid-20s, and have never downloaded a podcast via an RSS feed. I don't think I even have an RSS feed reader on my computer, unless Firefox counts some how. I thought it was like live bookmarks for a long time, but I
Re:Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:2)
1.) Dude makes podcast
2.) 2nd dude mirrors podcast RSS file and promotes their own duplicate feed through iTunes and Yahoo and the other 5 zillion podcast directories.
3.) 2nd dude's podcast gets MORE subscribers
4.) 2nd dude stops posting new files. The majority of subscribers get no more episodes.
5.) 1st dude wonders why, stumbles upon his iTunes directory entry which displays the WRONG RSS file.
6.) 2nd dude asks for money.
Re:Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:5, Informative)
1st dude told 2nd dude to stop directing traffic through their URL to 1st dude's site. (Pretty sure it was more of a redirect than a mirror of an RSS file).
2nd dude complied.
1st dude realized that iTunes had used 2nd dude's URL for 1st dude's listing.
1st dude is sad because all iTunes people who signed up with 2nd dude's URL are lost.
1st dude tells 2nd dude to put URL directing traffic to 1st dude's podcast backup. 2nd dude decides to capitalize and ask for money.
1st dude not happy.
Re:Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:2)
Podjacking is when someone registers your podcast with the major podcast search engines as coming from their site.
They then forward the podcast to your show. Maybe. Or maybe they send some other show. Or maybe they offer to let you pay them not to tell your audience that the show has been canceled. Etc. Once they own your show on the major search engines, you're pretty much beholden to them for your audience. Hopefully, the
Re:Slashdot overrun by old fogies (Score:5, Informative)
What has happened here (if I understand it correctly, and someone will correct me if I don't) is that the guy puts up his mp3s at http://myrealserver.dm/podcast/content0001.mp3 and then he creates an RSS file which points to his mp3s at http://myrealsystem.dm/podcast/feed.rss. The RSS file is essentially a signpost: it isn't the content in itself, it just points to the content. Then, when he posts new mp3 content, he updates his RSS. What is supposed to happen is that people point their podcast client at http://myrealsystem.dm/podcast/feed.rss, and every time he posts new content and updates the RSS it's automatically downloaded.
But what he's complaining is that the 'podjacker', evilpirate, has done is created a new feed, http://evil.pirate/devious/feed.rss which also points to myrealsite's content. The file at http://evil.pirate/devious/feed.rss is automatically updated using something like wget so that whenever myrealsite adds more content, http://evil.pirate/devious/feed.rss gets updated too.
evilpirate now registers http://evil.pirate/devious/feed.rss with podcast search engines as the authoritative signpost for myrealsite. Users search for content on the search engine, and if they like myrealsite's content, they point their clients at http://evil.pirate/devious/feed.rss.
So now some - or even most - of myrealsite's users are finding new myrealsite content through evilpirate's signpost. This gives evilpirate the power to alter where the signpost points to, so that instead of getting myrealsite's content they now get rivalsite's content.
Re:Easy (Score:2, Insightful)
The podjacker creates a feed that points to your podcast, so the podcast gets downloaded still from _your_ site. Now he gets this feed as the "official" feed for your show listed on iTunes, yahoo etc. At this point, you are at his mercy. So if he decides to delete this feed (as happened in this case), you loose all the subscribers that subscribed via this feed, which is essentially all except
Re:Easy (Score:2, Informative)
Plus, do you really want to have to try to explain to your less then optimally technological audience just how to fix their rss feed?
In
Re:Easy (Score:3, Insightful)
If users have it drilled into their head merciless that the feed can be had from a big bold link on the front page of that domain that guy's incessantly blathering, then when they lose the stream, they'll
Apple? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Apple? (Score:2)
Yeah right . . .
Next you're gonna tell me that Microsoft didn't invent the web, and that they were late adopters of it.
Sure buddy, Whatever . . .
Re:Apple? (Score:2)
Re:Apple? (Score:3, Informative)
Did you RTFA? The submitter's big problem is that iTunes (what company owns this?) listed his podcast via the pirate feed. So when that stopped, he lost all his iTunes subscribers, the pirate asked for money to reinstate. iTunes could not change the listing, only delete the old and put up a new one.
Re:Apple? (Score:3, Interesting)
Xerox invented the GUI, apple just brought it to the people.
My precious data. (Score:4, Funny)
MY. OWN.
MY data. My precioussssss....
He lost control of his statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps there is mileage in protecting one aggregator of news on the web, but you hardly see Taco complaining that ArsTechnica and Digg find ways to present the same news resources to their readers.
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.yahoo.c
Now imagine that they allowed anyone to register a site mapping. For example, maybe I should register www.yahoo.com, and have it forwarded through my domain. Then one day, maybe, I decide that instead of forwarding to the real yahoo site, i'll just redirect all the visitors to my own site. What's to stop me?
That's the problem with podjacking.
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:2)
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:2)
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:2)
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
What I specifically do not expect, is for them to forward listeners to my site through a frame, keeping the bookmarks of my users for my site pointed at google. I expect t
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:2)
RTFA (Score:2)
The guy signed up for this *himself*. Then he complained about it when he later realized everyone was using the redirector instead of his "front door" url (wtf???)
It is like going to tinyurl.com and making a tinyurl for your site, then complaining later on when people use it to access your site instead of the real URL.
The guy is a fruitcake and shouldn't even be allowed to podcast until he takes a few courses on h
Re:RTFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
Close, but read the full article. (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right on here, but read a little further in the article and you realize he asked for the listings directly from the "Podjacker"! After he admits this, he says that they didn't do it how he assumed they would have done it. Then he goes on to still label them a "Podjacker".
I responded to an email somebody sent me about podkeyword.com, and I gave the site a visit and submitted my URL for a few listings. When I launched my show in October of 2004 I went everywhere I could to post its URL, and I quickly forgot all about my five minute visit to podkeyword.
I guess the only remaining comment I have on this topic is that I'd like the 5 minutes I spent reading the article back. Total waste of time - there literally is nothing to see here.
MOD PARENT UP, this guy is a tool (Score:4, Informative)
No one "jacked" anything, this guy submitted the site to this URl forwarder himself The site that "podjacked" him is no different than cjb.net or tinyurl.com or any other redriector service.
It is anyone's fault this guy is a complete tool and does not realize what he is doing.
Re:MOD PARENT UP, this guy is a tool (Score:3, Insightful)
Furthermore, the 'service' registered his show on legitimate directory services as coming from them. I can't see any way to make that look legitimate. It would be like finding out that tiny url went an
Re:He lost control of his statistics (Score:2)
This post is NOT insightful, heck, it's completely wrong with regard to what the article talked about.
Same as hotlinking (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Same as hotlinking (Score:2, Funny)
Please, stop with all the plogsmacking. You are negaposting the webpinionsphere.
This is funny (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, imagine the danger of people listening to the wrong inconsequential ramblings of somebody with no life.
The consequences are beyond words!
Step 1 - Content... (Score:2)
Step 2: podcast in a distinctive Howard Cosell voice that cannot be duplicated. This with authenticate your podcasts such that any hijacking will immediately be obvious and detected.
Step 3: there is no Step 3.
Lesson (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lesson (Score:3, Insightful)
Obligatory Coral Cache / Safety (Score:2)
http://vegan.com.nyud.net:8090/issues/2005/podjack ing.htm [nyud.net]
Great article, without it I'd never know about the Kobe Beef Show
We've hired 3 bloggers to start a podcast, and I've looked into the control mechanism to protect our feeds technically. I don't support copyright protection laws so I have to allow others redistribution capability. The author seems to have received many more users from the "hijack" I think I'd support others helping me.
Just protect your profits by reminding users to visit your webs
Never used that method to sign up for the feed (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is my way of saying that search engines are good, but
<dons jounalism professor hat>
you have to check your sources.
<doffs jounalism professor hat>
This is just a variant of SEO abuse... (Score:2)
This is more of the same.
Having read all the links... (Score:2)
Vegan.com podcast? (Score:5, Funny)
Save a cow...Eat a Vegan!
-/Karma burning calories
Re:Vegan.com podcast? (Score:2)
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Jipahddis, establishing bases in Podjackistan (Score:5, Funny)
The Usage Axiom (Score:2, Interesting)
This could be a variation of the "Law of Unintended Consequences."
Invent something new. There will be at least one person, each, who:
``Podjacking'' summarized (Score:5, Informative)
2) Find somebody else's podcast.
3) Mirror that podcast's XML file at evilpodjackingdomain.dom/pwn3d.xml
4) Get evilpodjackingdomain.dom/pwn3d.xml listed in as many podcast directories as possible.
5) Wait.
6) Blackmail original podcaster with threats of modifying / removing your local mirror; all subscribers through evilpodjackingdomain.dom/pwn3d.xml would get whatever you want them to get regardless of what the podcaster wants.
7) Profit.
Cheers,
b&
Re:``Podjacking'' summarized (Score:2)
Well explained. The guy genuinely does have something to complain about, but this is just the same sort of scuzzy borderline crooked exploit we've seen every time we've had a new technical development - the borderline criminals are quick to get in there and find an exploitable wheeze. Then they rake in some $$$$ and move on to the next scam before the legislators can catch up with them.
Recent Father/Slashdotter Conversation (Score:3, Funny)
Slashdotter: **long pause** Go away. I'm busy!
Father: Open this door right now! You better not be podjacking in there!
Next on Slashdot! (Score:2)
Bringing you tomorrows news--today!
I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want absolute control over the content you are creating, start a regular radio station and pay the FCC for a monopoly on your slice of the air. Better hire some IP lawyers and invest heavily in DRM, too.
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Article Summary (Score:2)
Solution: Add a "copyright" tag to the official RSS feed that can be copied by anyone
embed official URL in mp3 metadata (Score:2, Insightful)
Been There (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't the easiest solution (takes a lot of time to manage) and won't always work (e.g. they set their UA to one that looks like a valid browser or some other UA that I allow), but it clears most of the riffraff, i think.
So /. thinks linking /should/ be illegal now? (Score:2)
Just verify referring URL? (Score:4, Informative)
Other side to the story? (Score:2)
While I am not calling Erik Marcus a liar, his story is full of opinion and unsubstantiated claims. It seems to me like he subscribed to a listing that would help him publish his podcast, and claims that there was never any notice that his listings would help generate revenue for the listing service. He freely admits that he wasn't really paying attention to what he was doing while he signed up with this service, and so his cla
God, I hate this kind of crap (Score:2)
While most of my viewpoint was already iterated by this comment [slashdot.org], I have one more thing to add.
This is what happens when a very new technology that is highly experimental becomes widespread too fast. People who doen't have a goddamned clue how the web actually works start submitting things to sites left and right, without understanding the consequences of what they are doing. My personal guess is that this bozo did not even know what a URL redirector *was* when he signed up for this service.
Anyway, I pers
Deep linking (Score:2)
Is it legal/ethical for someone else to link to your content without your permission?
An RSS feed is nothing but a collection of hyperlinks (URLs), so "podjacking" is just the deep linking problem in a slightly different form.
It seems to me that the concensus at the time was that deep linking isn't the nicest thing in the world, but it isn't evil and certainly not illegal. Same goes for "podjacking", I th
iTunes RSS directory... (Score:2)
This leads to Podsnatching (Score:2)
( P ) Pronunciation Key ( pd - sntch )
v. podsnatch, podsnatching, podsnatches
v. tr.
1. To suddenly take someone's iPod from another's possession: There is a lot of podsnatching on the subway.
2. To damage an iPod's internal software: Sony's latest rootkit really upset me podsnatching me the way it did.
Production vs. Marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
You might argue that the world would be better off without middle men such as marketers, publishers, etc. (I think the catchy phrase for this is "disintermediation".) But this story provides evidence that these people actually do add value in some cases.
YAY HYPOCRISY (Score:5, Funny)
the bloggers. "Down with oppressive media! Democratize publishing!" say the
bloggers. And now that things are finally becoming standardized, and
XML-based, and easilly parsable and reusable, it turns out they don't LIKE
it when someone reuses *their* stuff in a way they didn't envision.
WHERE IS YOUR PRECIOUS "REMIX CULTURE" NOW?
Assholes.
Re:YAY HYPOCRISY (Score:3, Funny)
Mod_rewrite? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've made a few rewrite rules to avoid hotlinking of my images, and this seems possible to me.
Podcasting != Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:simple way to avoid, for consumers at least (Score:2)
Perhaps, perhaps not. On one hand, I think it's a great way to get in touch with people who have more specialized interests that you're not going to find in regular news or information sources.
On the other hand, people take this stuff too seriously. It's brain candy, the narcotic of the microculture. Once you find people who think like you do and share your ideas, you want to connect with them more and more. And po
Re:Maddox (Score:2)
In fact, streaming is antithetical to podcasting, as the whole idea of podcasting is for your client to download the content during idle time and transfer it to a portable audio device so that you can play it away from your computer.
I suspect many people dispense with the second transfer and simply play the files on their computers, but the fact remains that podcasts are designed to be downloaded for later playback, not to be streamed.
Re:Maddox (Score:2)
No, it isn't. If it were that, it would be useless to me. Why? Because I listen to podcasts, which I've previously downloaded, in situations where I have have no net link, usually on the train. So streaming it most definitely isn't.
It's a simple idea - an RSS feed of MP3 links, which a client will auto-fetch for you. But 'an RSS feed of MP3 links' is a let less catchy than 'podcast', so I'm happy to use the term.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Use ID3 tag (Score:2)
A more viable approach would be to generate the feed dynamically, and embed a unique identifier in the URL. Instead of pointing to the MP3 itself, the URL points to another script. The script checks to see if
Re:Ho Hum... (Score:2, Informative)
Marcus [the podcaster] contacted Lambert to ask that his listing be removed. Lambert did so. This, however, caused Marcus' listenership to crash by some 75 percent, he claimed. Marcus then asked that his listing temporarily be reinstated on Podkeyword
and regarding "extortion"...
"He wanted me to make sure no other directory services got the information from me, but I can't tell who are dir
Re:shitcasting (Score:2)
Re:Why did everything MP3... (Score:2)
Maybe we need to start calling them compressed digital music players? CDMPs?