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Jamie Zawinski Switches to Mac OS X 1074

iskander writes "After a disappointing experience with sound, Jamie Zawinski has finally given up on desktop Linux and switched to Mac OS X. The future of apps like xscreensaver and Gronk is now ``highly ambiguous''. He has already ditched a free/open platform before, but he seems a lot angrier this time. Indeed, twisted by the Dark Side of the Source, young Zawinski has become."
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Jamie Zawinski Switches to Mac OS X

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:02AM (#12794393)
    and why should i care what OS he is running ?

    maybe i should submit a story about what OS my neighbour runs, or perhaps his brother and wife

    • by PsychicX ( 866028 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:35AM (#12794600)
      According to the link on his name, he's a contributor to XEmacs and Moz.

      An XEmacs contributor switches to a more useful system. I love the irony.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I like how he is(was) a developer of a application that used sound on linux ( []) and yet was so stupid as to a) buy a soundcard that wasn't fully supported and b) use a distro that doesn't set it up automagically.

      I mean, come on.

      And yes, linux is harder than having dedicated hardware and OS intergration - it's also cheaper. But more importantly, that's the price of freedom.

      I am sick to the guts of all these whinging losers who expect linux to be "finished now". Go check out apple's
    • by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:58AM (#12794786) Homepage Journal
      Slashdot used to be a OS advocacy site for Linux. Now, Slashdot is an OS advocacy site for Apple. Of course you should care.
      • Actually, Slashdot is a news site. Specifically, news for nerds and stuff that matters.

        Frankly, I can understand his beef with sound on Linux. There's no mucking about with "sound servers" on other mainstream operating systems. ALSA is a good attempt to fix that problem, but it's not quite there yet.
    • by matt me ( 850665 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:02AM (#12794807)
      Zawikski's just this guy, you know?
    • by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:39AM (#12795066) Homepage
      Just because this guy wrote UNIX N1.1 doesn't make him some sort of God or anything. He seems to complain more than he makes an effort to help fix the problem, and I think we should just disregard his ranting and raving.

      Yes, there's still issues with Linux audio. But whining and running off to another OS isn't going to fix them.

      He complained endlessly about Mozilla too. It seems he does nothing but whine.

      • by MPHellwig ( 847067 ) * <> on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:56AM (#12795165) Homepage
        "But whining and running off to another OS isn't going to fix them."

        Well the problem is fixed for him isn't?
      • Just because this guy wrote UNIX N1.1 doesn't make him some sort of God or anything

        But it does qualify him for demi-god status. When you get to hang with the gods, and have a small cult following of strangely deticated people.... Maybe a shrine or two...

      • Yes, there's still issues with Linux audio. But whining and running off to another OS isn't going to fix them.

        That's because "issues with Linux audio" is the problem of Linux audio developers, not users. His problem was getting sound to work, and switching to Mac OS X solved that.
    • He's a Prima Donna (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Colin Smith ( 2679 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @02:01PM (#12795965)
      And is throwing his toys out of the pram because he's just not getting everything his way. Don't worry nothing is ever perfect for these guys, OS X won't be able to satisfy his demand that the world be made perfect for him either.

      Guess what all you Prima Donnas, (and yes there are a *lot* of Prima Donnas out there). You will never ever get everything you want, something will always be wrong because the problem is not with the world at large, it's with your personality.


      • by John Whitley ( 6067 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @09:23PM (#12798817) Homepage
        And is throwing his toys out of the pram because he's just not getting everything his way.

        I disagree; IMO he's got a legitimate point. From the JWZ blog regarding problems with XMMS hogging all audio output such that no other apps can play audio:
        I can't believe I even have to think about this shit. What year is it again?

        This frustration highlights a failing of the Linux-based desktop platform. Put generally, Linux systems often require the user fuss with (and be aware of!) highly technical system tweaks to satisfy some really basic end-user scenarios. The blog's thread has lots of people going on about ways to fix this particular problem, but frankly I'm on JWZ's side: it's a damn waste of time! At least it is for those whom, the computer is a tool for getting work done, instead of an end in and of itself.

        Put another way, I'm all for some degree of tweaking in my day-to-day usage. I find and install new tools, write helpful scripts/plugins/etc., and do other "meta-work" to make myself more productive. This process is kinda fun, too. But having to screw around for hours figuring out what to do just to get more than one app to play audio is insane.

        And the real killer is that the solution is probably not to just roll up the ol' sleeves and write some software to "scratch the itch". This isn't a software problem, it's a real world problem of fragmented design and developer effort and a lack of a seamless out-of-box experience for Linux-based systems.

        Getting fed up with that is hardly "throwing [your] toys out of the pram" -- it's called cutting your losses.
  • From TFA (Score:5, Funny)

    by byolinux ( 535260 ) * on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:03AM (#12794400) Journal
    Dear Slashdot: please don't post about this. Screw you guys.

  • new flash... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rednip ( 186217 ) * on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:04AM (#12794413) Journal
    JWZ disallusioned, posts comment in blog... news at 11.

    I hate to be a jerk, I loved all his negitive comments about Netscape/ Mozilla, and whatever else he works on, but it got old like 6 years ago.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:04AM (#12794415)
    So someone is switching to OS-X? So what?? And this made the frontpage news? May I ask why? Is it happening so rarely that when one person makes the switch to OS-X it is a front page news?
  • by croddy ( 659025 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:05AM (#12794418)
    You got your LiveJournal linked on the front page of Slashdot. Now get your butt upstairs, Mom needs help with the dishes!
  • by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:08AM (#12794436)
    .. it DIDN'T go "beep beep beep".
  • Sounds familiar (Score:5, Insightful)

    by October_30th ( 531777 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:11AM (#12794444) Homepage Journal
    I gave up and went to Mac. I still have a Linux desktop, but I am sick, sick, sick to death of having to tweak every last little friggin' thing.

    I also gave up and went for a Mac for exactly the same reason. It's unacceptable that in 2005 a Linux distribution (FC3, in my case) doesn't recognize a three-button+wheel USB mouse out-of-box or that setting up a TV card requires you to edit some config-files by hand.

  • telling (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bwy ( 726112 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:16AM (#12794475)
    I think it is pretty telling that someone who has a lot of technical expertise has the same problems that a lot of us have had with desktop Linux. The problem is real, folks.

    If Linux on the desktop is to survive, I really think there needs to be a major coordinated effort to get lots of things in line. Maybe some type of consortium that would facilitate dialog between different groups and/or state a common direction. It is really hard to build a solid desktop OS when you've got thousands of developers operating independently or in small groups. You might get a few good solid apps, but the OS itself is going to be a patchworked hodge-podge.
    • Re:telling (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bgfay ( 5362 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:49AM (#12794700) Homepage
      "If Linux on the desktop is to survive..."

      This is my favorite thing to hear about Linux. Linux will survive on the desktop, on servers, on refrigerators for as long as one person wants to run it there. I have a Linux machine that I use for most things, Windows on my laptop, and an iMac in the bedroom for playing music, movies, and using the web. Everyone wants to get worked up about Linux's survival. It's not survival that matters, it will survive a good long time, it's the advancement of it.

    • Re:telling (Score:4, Insightful)

      by torokun ( 148213 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @05:05PM (#12797232) Homepage
      You want to know the real issue?

      People in high school, college, grad school, or academia have enough time to futz around with this stuff.

      People who work on open source code or work in linux day-to-day are paid to futz around or buy a preconfigured system.

      But people who are not in the above categories do not generally have the TIME to deal with crap like this. Heck, I put together my own machine a few years ago, and still haven't had time to back it all up and reinstall it, even though I've needed to, for over 3 years. These people would much rather pay for something to work than spend their time trying to make it work. This is the issue. TIME.
  • by art6217 ( 757847 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:16AM (#12794481)
    Perhaps it is because the Mac OS X screensaver does not have the obnoxious features like:

    1. Short timeout for writing passwords, what may make it difficult for some people to unlock the screen at all.

    2. Stupid, delaying messages after entering the wrong password, as if the security delay by the authorization system was not enough.

    3. Ugly, ugly, *ugly* logo.

    4. Small, non-antialiased fonts in the password dialog, as if the screen space was so scarce when all other windows are hidden anyway.


  • Dark Side (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ed Almos ( 584864 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:17AM (#12794492)
    No, he has NOT been twisted by the dark side, he has just been pissed off for the last time by Linux software which does not do the job.

    We have a printer system that was developed for line printers and never matured.

    We have a sound system that works most (but not all) of the time if you are lucky.

    We have power management issues on laptops which Microsoft fixed in 1995.

    And finally

    I have a laptop running Red Hat 9 because Fedora 1, Fedora 2, Fedora 3 and SuSE 9.x all have so many major problems with their basic installation that the machine is unusable. My next laptop will be an Apple machine.

    Instead of adding more features I for one would be grateful if the Linux software developers fixed existing software. Bug hunting is not sexy but it might avoid more incidents like this.

    Ed Almos
    Budapest, Hungary
    • "We have a printer system that was developed for line printers and never matured."

      Are you referring to Cups?

      "We have a sound system that works most (but not all) of the time if you are lucky."

      How is this different from OSX or Windows?

      "We have power management issues on laptops which Microsoft fixed in 1995."

      Agreed, plus suspend is a PITA!

  • Funny thing... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ATMosby ( 746034 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:33AM (#12794575) Journal
    Some of the same reasons that I'm switching away from Linux to OSX. Don't have the time to fight those battles anymore. *Don't* want to fight those battles anymore
  • Sound (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ultrabot ( 200914 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:38AM (#12794621)
    The posts so for have missed the main point. That is, sound in Linux sucks. It just needs to be fixed.

    - arts must die, and it will w/ KDE4

    - esd must die

    - every program should start using gstreamer

    - ALSA must learn to do proper software mixing out of the box.

    Imagine my "pleasure" when I inadvertly caused a "beep" to emerge from my terminal window, and as a result had to wait a while (20 seconds? can't remember) before I could start playing a video with sound. Or how I had to do "killall -9 artsd" to start playing video in totem after listening to music on Amarok (which is superior to rhythmbox in most ways).
    • Re:Sound (Score:3, Informative)

      ALSA has dmix which does pretty much this, and it's enabled out of the box for apps that need it in Fedora Core 4 which should be out tomorrow.

      There's still some disagreement on whether dmix is the way forward, but hopefully within a year or two software sound mixing will be like fonts are now - pretty much a solved problem.

    • ALSA must die. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Kludge ( 13653 )
      Network Audio System (NAS) was around for a while before these other audio projects sprung up. Just as every Linux distribution uses the fully standard X windows as a networked video server, every Linux distribution should have used, from the outset, the existing fully networked audio server, NAS.

      How all these Linux distros and desktops got themselves into so many fragmented half baked audio schemes is beyond me.

    • by Morgaine ( 4316 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @02:30PM (#12796143)
      There are tons of solutions to the problem, but they all miss the boat because they're done at the wrong level, and hence they're not transparent. The last thing we need are more sound demons. (I use NAS and it works fine, but it's the wrong solution too.)

      All sound drivers without exception should work like they do currently on FIRST OPEN, but on second and subsequent opens they should automatically hook in a mixer and mix all inputs together.

      The code to do it already exists, but it's just not being structured sensibly as above. It's no surprise that newbies find the one-at-a-time behaviour unhelpful, because it is. This is a multi-user O/S fer crissakes, single-open in sound drivers is just dumb!
  • by bgfay ( 5362 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:39AM (#12794633) Homepage
    I've had it with these complicated operating systems. I've never gotten my printer to work correctly on Linux, my Mac is just a total pain in the ass and slug, and I spend hours upon hours trying to do the easiest things on Windows.

    The hell with all of you. I just installed DOS on my box and all is well.

    Slashdot, please don't post this. You guys are jerks and I'm going to tell my mommy about you.
  • by CaptnMArk ( 9003 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:46AM (#12794680)

    Sound under linux requires a card that supports
    hardware mixing of multiple audio streams
    (SoundBlaster Live or newer is the only one that comes to mind and that I have (1 live, 1 audigy)).

    Anything else is mostly unusable because of the lack of kernel (== always works) mixer.

    User space mixers are a joke (or at least were last I tried them) because of incompatibility.
  • by yerdaddie ( 313155 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @10:58AM (#12794787) Homepage
    With Linus using a Powermac [] for his development, you can't help but wonder if he secretly uses OS X now and then ... you know to run Photoshop and stuff. Now that jwz and all the cool kids are making the switch, it could only be a matter of time...
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:06AM (#12794838)
    If Linux is going to succeed on in gaining Desktop Market share. You should really listen to the rants of people who tried the platform and then ditched it. So except for calling the ditcher Dumb or a quitter. Look at the complaints. He wanted to get the sound card to work, or 2 sound cards to work and went threw the processes of RTFM and Asking for Help with no avail. So guess what they switched. And on the Mac it just worked. I think a lot of Linux Zealots and/or developers should use Macs for a while to get use to "Just works" and what it really means. I mean if this was 1990 sound cards were considered a speciality item on a PC like adding TV Tuner Card today. But every modern computer has a sound card. And for God sake Linux should support sound. Sound it no longer just for cutisy dings and for games. It is used for practical application such as VoIP and Watching DVD, Sound is now an integral component to the system and Linux should support it and support it well.
  • Sigh... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ledow ( 319597 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:08AM (#12794857) Homepage
    How this qualifies as an important piece of news, I don't know. I'm assuming it's a "comedy" piece because he said "Dear Slashdot: please don't post about this. Screw you guys." on one of the linked pages.

    However, I myself have had problems with sound in linux, yes, but considering that (as someone who had only ever played about with TCP/IP in Linux and had never touched X or the Linux desktop until a few months ago) I have now switched from Windows to a Linux desktop and got sound working in all apps installed within a few days of switching. That was about four months ago and I still don't use Windows.

    I had worked out everything he had worked out in less than two days of having a linux desktop. There are things that should be simpler (cups, sound, etc.) but none of them hindered me for very long and, once properly set up, work much better than my previous OS's incarnations. Yes, it's a pain having to "set things up", but it's hardly worth such a strop.

    We all know arts, esd, etc. are a pain in the ass and, yes, we are all waiting for ALSA to "just work". Now that it's in the kernel, we finally have a standardised, working, maintained sound system that supports mixing on EVERY LINUX MACHINE. This should be the turning point.

    If a program that plays sound doesn't have an ALSA-compatible option by now, it's not being maintained properly. If it does, it will just work with ALSA and any plugins you might use, e.g. dmix.

    As soon as 2.6 distros become the standard, we can work on getting EVERY app to use the same damn sound systems.

    I saw his entry on wikipedia and if he's such a great programmer who has made contributions to such important projects as, gosh, XScreensaver, it makes me wonder why the hell he:

    a) didn't know this already (not a single XScreensaver that uses sound?).

    b) can't work it out for himself.

    c) throws a major strop because it's not point-and-click.

    It occurs that he's just missed the point. You don't have a Linux desktop to say "I've got a Linux desktop". You don't have one to beat every other desktop into the ground with your technical superiority (real or percieved). You don't have one to complain that it's not like Windows. You don't have one to play iTunes (as he seems to value this as an important feature).

    My desktop is Linux because it works, it's fast enough, it does what I want, it doesn't restrict me in any way, it's free, it's Free, it doesn't blue-screen, crash, corrupt and die every few months/years, I can leave it running overnight and not worry about if it'll crash before it finishes it's downloads, I can access it remotely (a good thing when you're working behind restrictive child-safe proxies all the time), and I can do things without wizards, dogs and paperclips jumping up to "help me find a file".

    I can't help feeling that any decent programmer would have been able to overcome the same little roadhumps on the way without so much as a sigh. They might even have bothered to fix the troublesome programs themselves.
    • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by earthbound kid ( 859282 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:25AM (#12794959) Homepage
      Yes, everything you said about Linux is true. The problem is that OS X also "doesn't blue-screen, crash, corrupt and die every few months/years, I can leave it running overnight and not worry about if it'll crash before it finishes it's downloads, I can access it remotely (a good thing when you're working behind restrictive child-safe proxies all the time), and I can do things without wizards, dogs and paperclips jumping up to 'help me find a file'." Oh, and also the sound just works out of the box.

      Linux is going to have to get better if it's going to compete with OS X. Competing against Windows isn't that hard. Linux is basically at par with it in most areas. The real problem for Linux is that it has to be not just as good as Windows, but better than Windows and its other competitors. And right now, other competitor #1 is OS X, and OS X just 'stole' a Linux developer by being easier to set up sound cards.

      Is it a little thing? Yes, and that's exactly the problem: In OS X, the little things, just work!
    • Re:Sigh... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tigerc ( 628630 )
      Because maybe he has more important things to do? Because maybe he wants to do other things? Because maybe he wants something that works right out of the box. Because a lot of us don't have infinite amounts of time.
  • Get SuSE.
    Get an SB Live! Value or an SB Audigy! Value.
    Get an Nvidia Geforce(1/2/3/4) MX or not video card.
    Use an ACX110/111 802.11g wireless card.


    Hardware audio mixing, all the drivers will auto-install. An almost Mac OS X-like experience, and certainly much easier than Windows.
    • Get an SB Live! Value or an SB Audigy! Value.

      The only problem with this is that SB Live!s suck ass. I have seen so many people's computers lock up, crash intermittently, or refuse to even boot because they had an SB Live! that didn't want to play nice with the rest of their hardware, and the featureset really isn't all that good even for a budget card.

      Try a Turtle Beach Riviera [] if you need a good budget card.
  • DMIX and You! (Score:3, Informative)

    by WhiteWolf666 ( 145211 ) <> on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:46AM (#12795110) Homepage Journal
    Apparently, both the newest Mandrake (Mandriva?), Fedora Core 4, and SuSE 9.3 feature dmix out of the box for soundcards that do not support hardware mixing.

    So this is now a non-problem.

    Survey says? Stop running Redhat 5. Old linux=PITA. Get a new user-friendly distro.

    Oh, you don't want a dumbed-down OS? Than why are you switching to OS X?

    Note: I have a powerbook G4, running Tiger, and two mac minis running Tiger. I also have several linux desktops and 2 linux servers. I've got plenty of experience with both platforms.

    But SuSE is almost as easy as OS X, and I can run most of my Windows games on SuSE.
  • Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JayBlalock ( 635935 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @12:21PM (#12795323)
    I'm really impressed at how the Linux geeks in this thread are responding to his criticisms about as well as Bill O'Reilly handles criticisms of our military.

    You bet your sweet bippy that was a troll. Do your worst, I've got karma to spare.

    *NOW* is the time for Linux to get its collective head out of the sand and really reach out to the common users. You know how on a weekly basis we laugh at Microsoft for announcing yet another feature that will NOT be in Longhorn? Let me just put this one in bold:

    Longhorn is going to suck. It's going to be the worst Windows since ME.

    Microsoft has no plan for it. They know they have really taken Windows about as far as it can go, and any real changes are going to require years of work. But because of market pressures, they can't really take the time that would need - and yet, due to mismanagement, they're going to spend years wastefully. This is the PERFECT opportunity for Linux to finally rise to the forefront -- but only if the geeks get off their high horses and admit that a good OS has to be usable by common man. AND, right along side that, if they can come to understand criticism is NOT necessarily an attack. Reading responses on this thread, all I can think of is O'Reilly screaming 'Shup up! SHUT UP!' at anyone speaking facts he doesn't want to face.

    I gave up on Linux for the same reasons as Zawinski. I want an OS that *works*. I don't want to tweak my sound drivers. I don't want to have my nVidia drivers FRICKING VANISH after a week of working right (after a week of work to get them running). I don't want to have to remember that completely ridiculous program names like "the GIMP" are actually usuable graphics applications and not, as the name would suggest to a normal human being, porn videos.

    (yes, I know what the name stands for. That does not change the fact that Granny Average User would never in a million years click on something called a "gimp" looking for a way to take the redeye out of her pictures.)

    The Linux community needs to get out of the 90s. There are modern solutions to every major problem with the OS, and within a year, two at max, they could make it REALLY user-friendly. The problem is that user-friendliness isn't sexy to Linux geeks. No one wants to spend time writing a new sound library that actually works when they can just look down their noses at anyone who doesn't know how to properly configure ALSA. And the only thing less sexy than THAT is not writing any actual code at all, but just going through the OS and making sure the user dialogues make some sort of sense to those who don't have PhDs and, as someone else mentioned, will actually fit on a screen resolution of less than 1024x768.

    But you know what? Someone has to do it. Because if no one does, Linux will NEVER get past being a hobbyist OS, and whatever horrible things the next Windows introduces to the computing world, we'll be stuck with dealing with them. ('Cause god knows, I just *love* having mailboxes on Linux and Mac machines shut down because Windows-borne virii have filled them with spam. That helps my sense of superiority to no end.)

    So this is truly put up and shut up time. There has never been a better opportunity for Linux to really make some inroads in the home market - but only if the contributors are willing to make some compromises and give the other 90% of users some reason to switch. So all I ask is, if you contribute to OSS, and you EVER spend any time online complaining about how Linux could be great if only it could get into the mainstream - use that time to tweak Linux's usability instead. Fixing bad error messages doesn't even require much programming skill at all. Make Linux usable for common people, and it can succeed. Period.

  • Tired of Futzing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shannon Love ( 705240 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @01:11PM (#12795673) Homepage
    I can relate to Zawinski's frustration and many others do as well. I notice that it seems to effect those with more experience than those newer to computing.

    When one first acquires a new tool, whether it is hardware, software or a woodworking plane, the very act of learning how use the tool itself works is highly engaging. Just futzing about figuring out how the new tool works is an end in itself.

    However, after one has spent 20+ years learning the ends and out of each season's new tools the joy fades. One becomes progressively less interested in the tools itself and more interested in product you want to use the tool to make. The time spent futzing with the tool is not engaging but frustrating and wasteful. You want to get the primary work done not spend all your time adjusting your tools.

    How many times over the years has Zawinski wrestled with a problem similar to his Linux sound issue? The thrill of solving such a problem is long gone, baby.

    The Linux community is dominated by people who enjoy the process of learning and using the tool itself. They are the kind of people who take the toaster apart to see how it works. The vast majority of desktop users, however, just want to make toast.

    People like Zawinski, who have taken apart their fair share of toasters, also now just want to make toast. At present, Linux doesn't let him do that.
  • by whatthef*ck ( 215929 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @01:15PM (#12795692) Homepage
    ... do you remember where you were when you first heard the news?

    They'll nod solemnly, and in reverent tones, tell with precise detail where they were when they learned that Jamie Zawinski had switched to OS X.
  • by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @03:06PM (#12796400)
    He's right.

    We should be able to plug a mouse into a port on a Linux machine and expect it to work. We shouldn't need to troll the net looking for guidance on how to configure the damn thing. If it needs a driver and it needs to be configured, we deserve a GUI that handles the congifuring. A mouse is a tool that's used to manipulate a GUI; it's lame and lazy to build a driver and then slump off the configuration into an X ASCII config file.

    Ditto sound. Linux doesn't do it right. And, what's with that stupid business of distributions shipping muted ALSA drivers? That makes no sense at all. Can anyone even imgaine Microsoft or Apple doing something so gratuitously user hostile as shipping boxes with the sound turned off by default?
  • To the naysayers (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hkb ( 777908 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @07:11PM (#12798002)
    When you've been using UNIX for 20 years, start a family, and actually find other hobbies than sitting in front of the ol' cancer machine, you'll get sick of stuff like:

    - learn yet another new config format
    - having to constantly recompile a kernel or a kmod
    - compile anything

    Just to get a camera hooked to your PC or try out some new piece of software.

    It just gets really fucking old, eventually.

    This is why I see OS X as a bigger threat to Linux than Windows. A lot of Windows users actually LIKE Windows; the way its laid out, the interface design, etc. They usually don't like OS X's interface.
    • Re:To the naysayers (Score:3, Interesting)

      by smash ( 1351 )
      Hell, I've been using Unix/Linux/BSD for only 10 years, don't have a family, and I agree with you 100% :D

      If you want to play sysadmin and cut your teeth on the "unix way" go ahead. Its a great learning tool.

      As you say, if you've got more important things to do, like oh, lets say *get some work done*, OS/X would definately be the way to go.

      If Ubuntu doesn't work as a decent hassle free Desktop for me over the next few months, I'm jumping ship to MacOS myself (for desktop, my servers will remain bsd/

You know, Callahan's is a peaceable bar, but if you ask that dog what his favorite formatter is, and he says "roff! roff!", well, I'll just have to...