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Red Hat Software Businesses Software Apple Linux

Installing Fedora Core 4 on the Mac mini 86

Posted by timothy from the more-cliches-to-the-rescue dept.
Tammy Fox writes "The Mac mini is all the rave. Discover how to install the soon-to-be-released Fedora Core 4 on this tiny desktop appliance, including new features in Fedora Core 4 to support the new hardware."
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Installing Fedora Core 4 on the Mac mini More

Installing Fedora Core 4 on the Mac mini

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  • The article leaves out one detail... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @02:31PM (#12600036) Homepage Journal
    ...Linux on Mac mini (or any Mac) won't support any built-in wireless hardware. I don't have any wireless hardware on my mini, but I can see that being important.

    If a person wants a GUI-less Mac, it is possible to run OS X without the GUI as a text-only BSD variant. I forgot where I found the doc, I think you comment out one command in a script. I think that doc might be at the osxfaq site.

    • Re:The article leaves out one detail... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You can enter the login name >console at the login prompt, and it'll dump you to a text-only login

      yes, that's

      >console

      with the > and all
    • "Options for Bluetooth® and Airport® Extreme exist, however the latter will not work on Linux."

      "the Mac mini supports three options: wired Ethernet, wireless Airport Extreme, and Bluetooth. Wired Ethernet gets automatically configured, either via DHCP or static IP, via the system-config-network tool. Airport Extreme, however, sports the Broadcom chipset, where open source drivers are non-existent at present (and there's no reason the believe that they will ever exist)."

      How does the article leave this detail out?

    • Re:The article leaves out one detail... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rxke ( 644923 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @04:00PM (#12600551) Homepage
      FYI I run Ubuntu on a Clamshell iBook and it recognized and configured the airportcard automatically during install.

      So your double use of 'any Mac,''any built-in wireless hardware,' is a bit errr... FUDdy ;) if you are happy running obsolete hardware, that is.

      OTOH, Airport Extreme does indeed not work, so be warned.
      • I think it'll just be a matter of time before the Mini's particular combination of wifi, bluetooth, video hardware and superdrive are all well supported 100% by the more active linux distributions.

        It takes time. Even Apple hasn't 100% supported the hardware yet; for instance, some of the new Tiger desktop effects don't run on a mini, because the Mini's video chipset hasn't been worked into Tiger's new vector processing engine.

        As someone else here pointed out, Apple has made an artificial distinction (a

        • Thanks for the FUD, but let me point out the actual state of affairs.

          1) Apple has complete hardware support for the mac mini, your confusing hardware support with what the hardware can support. The hardware itself simply cannot perform a multitude of the things CoreImage/CoreVideo is capable of, so all that work is done in the CPU rather than on the GPU.

          2) There is no distinction between what machines can be servers and what cannot, the distinction is that there are client versions and server versions of
          • I can see the actual state of affairs, instead of just what Apple's marketing wants me to see. Rest assured, I'd let you point the current state of affairs out if you knew what it was. Since you clearly don't, however:
            1. If the GPU doesn't have enough oomph to do something, then by all means, load the CPU with the task. Don't just make it unavailable to Mini users. I'm speaking here of some of the effects like "ripple" that, if I understand correctly, are not available on the Mini. I am most certainly not "

          • 2) There is no distinction between what machines can be servers and what cannot...

            Then why do only the Xserves have ECC RAM?

            3) You provide the most piss poor reasons to run linux I have ever heard. OS X can do everything in a server capacity that linux does, as such there is no reason to run linux on the mac

            I've done VNC to a Fedora Desktop and a OS/X desktop. Just because OS/X *can* do it, doesn't mean it's any good at it. To sum "You don't have to install linux on a Mac, but there are some things

    • /etc/ttys has a commented-out entry for non-graphical startup. Just uncomment it and comment the line that launches the login window.
      #console "/usr/libexec/getty std.57600" vt100 on secure
      console "/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Cont ents/MacOS/loginwindow" vt100 on secure onoption="/usr/libexec/getty std.9600""

  • Goodie! (Score:5, Funny)

    by sgant ( 178166 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @02:33PM (#12600046) Homepage Journal
    I can write over OSX, the put on Fedora and then start the endless road into making Gnome behave and look like OSX...which I just wrote over!
    • And I could overwrite OSX and throw Linux with ratpoison [sourceforge.net] on it as my WM.

      I know it may disagree with the Gospel according to Jobs, but some people don't *like* OSX. The form factor of the mini is pretty nifty though.
      • If you just want the form factor, how does a Mac mini it compare to a miniITX system?
      • I run an Epia 5000 system in a basic case with a large-ish HDD and an external USB2.0 HDD. This system acts as a fileserver for my LAN and a backup system so that I can dump stuff to the external HDD.

        It was a cheap system to put together and really just works (with Debian GNU/Linux on there).

        I would make the same decision if I was doing it again. Firstly, you can use 3.5" HDD internally, so you get some performance and size benefits. The Mini is just 2.5" and has slot internal drives. The external option

    • YHBT (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You have been trolled, by slashdot. The only reason they run these stories is to get the Mac losers to start a fight with the Linux losers. Thanks for biting.

  • Why? (Score:2)

    by bcmm ( 768152 )
    Apart from the form factor, what advantages does the mac mini have over an x86 box of similar price? What is PPC hardware like? Does it perform better under load or something?

    • Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sgant ( 178166 )
      The advantage of the Mini is that it's the cheapest computer you can run OSX on...but this is a moot point if you're just going to write over it and install Linux.

      • Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)

        by TheRaven64 ( 641858 )
        I have a Mac Mini in a co-lo centre [pingwales.co.uk]. The hardware is more than adequate for my needs, and the small form factor means that the hosting fees are small. I picked OpenBSD as the OS to run on it for a number of reasons which will be covered in the second article in this series, due for publication next Friday.

        Before anyone points out the laptop hard drive, I have 512MB of RAM in the machine, and most of that is used as disk cache - the disk itself spends a lot of its time spun down.

    • DOH, because it's APPLE, and Apple is COOL. Sheesh, what's wrong with you people, anyway?

      Pffft. x86 box indeed.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by adam1101 ( 805240 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:08PM (#12600249)
      They're reasonably powerful systems with very low power consumption: the entire system (minus display) usually stays under 20W [earthlink.net]. Even the Pentium-M consumes much more [techreport.com] on the desktop (granted, they're also much faster). The most comparable competition in terms of power consumption are Via Mini-ITX systems, which tend to be much slower.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Chucker23N ( 661210 ) <chucker23n+slashdot@NoSpAM.gmail.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:17PM (#12600293) Homepage Journal
      The form factor itself is a major selling point. The thing is *tiny*.

      Second, it is very low on power usage, similarly to G4 laptops (as it shares much of the architecture).

      Thirdly -- obviously this goes away when you (only) put Linux on it -- it's the cheapest available machine that runs OS X.

      Generally, you'll have a hard time finding a competitive machine at this price with similar dimensions.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kalidasa ( 577403 ) * on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:41PM (#12600427) Journal
      Apple hardware isn't as much of a moving target as PC hardware is, so there are fewer hardware compatibility issues to deal with. Also, not too many pieces of PC hardware at that price point have Firewire 400 and DVI.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Sometimes I don't WANT to run polished desktop apps. Not everything I do is best served by Office 2004 or iPhoto.

          I'm running OS X 10.4 on both my iBook and my G5 (yes, I paid for the "Family Pack"). Ideally, I'd like to be running Fedora Core on my iBook because there are things I want to be able to do on my iBook that are slightly easier with Linux than they are with OS X (apps that simply are easier to use on Linux, rather than running them in an X11 window on OS X). Unfortunately, I haven't been able t

          • What about running it under Virtual PC?
            I've been trying to do this to see if I like Linux, and I've read that it's entirely possible, but I haven't been able to figure out how to boot from CD or an .iso file with VPC yet.
        • Installing Linux on the Mac Mini is like buying a Mercedes and then replacing the engine with one pulled from a Saturn.

          I now have a summer project. Look out, Saturn!

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:51PM (#12600489)
      What is PPC hardware like? Does it perform better under load or something?

      Everything is much snappier on PPC.

    • One thing people seem not to grasp about Linux on the Mac Mini is that it is a decent cheap way to run Linux on PowerPC hardware.

      So, if you're a Linux developer and want to work wiht PowerPC hardware, here's an inexpensive way to do it.

      And, since Linus runs on PowerPC, there must be something to be said in favour of it.
    • You mean "apart from the main selling point of the Mini, what is the main selling point?"

      The form factor is pretty much it. It's also very quiet, and a low power device.

      If you want computing power and don't need to keep it tiny, get something else. Of course, to get a really powerful machine, you need to pay more than a Mini (I'm thinking x86-64 here, but it certainly applies to the iMacs and PowerMacs).
    • When figuring the simular selling point, make sure to price the hardware "extras" Apple sells you.

      I ended up spending 900$ on my Mac Mini just to get it up to somewhat decent specs. I'm currently eyeing the HD upgrade.

  • FYI (Score:3, Informative)

    by flood6 ( 852877 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @02:55PM (#12600178) Homepage Journal
    Here's [slashdot.org] a related story from the 11th on an IBM article with instructions on installing Yellow Dog on an mini.

  • Hurrah! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by AnObfuscator ( 812343 )
    As a long-time Mac Zealot (11 years and counting), I'm love the recent increase in attention linux-ppc is receiving! Now that Apple is "cool" again, and now that Apple's OS has "geek cred", it's finally getting some serious attention from the FOSS world, and that is great news for me.

    I'm no big Fedora fan (I'm a Debain/Ubuntu user), but I'm grateful for the work RH is putting in to make Fedora Mac-friendly.

    Thanks, guys.

  • But...why? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by onebuttonmouse ( 733011 ) <obm@stocksy.co.uk> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:50PM (#12600480) Homepage
    This seems like a semi-on-topic question. Why would I want to install Red Hat on my Mac? This isn't meant to be a troll, I like Linux, I use Debian Sarge and Ubuntu Hoary on retired x86 boxes at work. I just would love to know if anyone is running Linux on their Mac - what are you using it for? Why can't I use OS X to do it?
    • Why forsake Mac OS X on a Mac, well think about non-desktop applications. For example the Navy using Yellow Dog Linux and Mac hardware for a Sonar application: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7789 [linuxjournal.com].

      For a somewhat detailed list of who is using Yellow Dog Linux see the links on http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/realworld/showca se/ [terrasoftsolutions.com]
      • when I own a sub, i'll run linux on my mac. until then, i'll just run linux on x86 and os x on ppc. now, that being said, i would run linux on an older mac if i had one laying around. i did install ydl 3.01 on my dad's old 350mhz imac. it has in thin 512mb ram, and yes, linux ran much faster than os x, howeevr, it's my kids computer and lots of eduactional games don't run on linux. so os x it is. however, on newer hardware, especially since you can't get airport extreme to work, there's little(not no,
        • ... on newer hardware, especially since you can't get airport extreme to work, there's little(not no, just little) reason to run linux over os x

          "Little" may not be as small as some readers are thinking. Again, think non-desktop applications. For example the mini is small, quiet, and could make a good OpenBSD firewall. Do you recall all the various articles around here where people were spending lots of money to build quiet PCs for firewalls, lightweight home servers, etc? I think the base mini would be
          • I would gather though that there are small form factor PC's that will do that nicely as well. not that a mini couldn't, but don't you need two NIC's? where's the other one going, unless hopefully one day the airport extreme drivers become available. i think the mini is one of apple's greatest ideas. i have been using linux since 1998. seriously. just because i happen to love both doesn't mean they're peanut butter and jelly. besides, os x has easy interent sharing, remote access, and wireless support
            • ... but don't you need two NIC's? where's the other one going, unless hopefully one day the airport extreme drivers become available ...

              No airport, I don't bother with wireless on desktops that already live in a heavily wired room. I would connect to the cable modem with USB 2.0 and use the ethernet for the switch. This is all theoretical, my mini is still being used as a desktop.
          • If you're looking for a small, new, machine to use as an OpenBSD firewall, you might be better off looking at something like a Soekris net4501 (or one of the faster models). They can be used to build very low power, silent, machines with no moving parts, and can be bought in very small cases which look rather like commercial routers and have 3 ethernet ports (e.g. internal, external, DMZ).

    • Re:But...why? (Score:5, Informative)

      by JMZorko ( 150414 ) on Sunday May 22, 2005 @12:03AM (#12603029) Homepage

      ... because, as cool as OSX is (I actually really like it, and I have a 12" PB 1.5ghz running it, as well as a dual 1.25ghz PM G4 MDD), some things need Linux:

      1. AIO (I don't know about Tiger, but Panther only does AIO on file-based FDs, not FDs based on pipes or sockets -- if you don't believe me, check out the XNU kernel source and see for yourself by grepping for ESPIPE) -- some apps need this ability.

      2. The Linux toolchain is the same on PPC and x86. ld is ld is ld, gcc is gcc is gcc, elf is elf. Plus, Linux works on embedded devices (which is one nice thing about the Mac mini -- it's a cheap PPC embedded development platform) while OSX does not yet.

      Regards,

      John

    • Linux is quite popular with older macs. G3's are quite sluggish running OSX. Linux flies on them.

      Of course NetBSD is becoming quite fast and stable now as well. NetBSD is popular with really old macs (pre powerpc) as well.

      Also Linux still has the best smp performance around for dual processor macs.

      Some hackers who want to learn assembler swear by the risc architecture of the chips. X86 is really really screwed and old. For example the 640k limit we like to make fun of Bill Gates qouting is hard coding in
    • Because my G3 tower has workstation-quality hardware (64-bit PCI, solid power supply and fan, rugged case, etc.) and more than enough horsepower for what it does (serve files over gigabit LAN, remote ssh server, personal web stuff, and sftp).

      It does all this with no fan except a big slow one that cools the PSU, CPU, and drives. You just can't get PCs built like that, even celerons need a cpu fan. You can't get a PC that's built for silent operation and massive I/O, it's one or the other. My G3 runs at 450M
    • Frankly, linux just works for me as a desktop (yes, I know I'm in an extremely small minority). The ports of pan I've seen are just not up to snuff, and I've never found a news reader that was anywhere near as easy to use and reliable. With KDE, I can drag and drop mp3s into my Creative lab's Muvo mp3 player directly, and I have easy access to a tool chain for converting my .flacs. tvtime is simply the best tuner app for cheapskates. Sure, you buy a $150 dollar tuner you probably get bells and wistles, pick
      • Unless I'm missing something important here, you've listed advantages to using KDE as a desktop. KDE, however, works fine on OS X. What makes Linux a better kernel than XNU (or GNU/Linux a better base OS than Darwin), in this case?

  • Putting linux on a Mac mini, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by earthbound kid ( 859282 ) on Sunday May 22, 2005 @02:52AM (#12603539) Homepage
    Hmm, sounds like an interesting story... Or at least it was, the first two times Slashdot wrote it up.

    For real, this story isn't even a dupe-- it's a TRUPE!!!

    Oh boy, I get to read all the posters who say, "But why install linux on a Mac?" again. It sure was interesting the first two times, so this time, I know it'll be awesome for sure.

    Seriously, I can understand some dupes popping up, when two editors post links to the same story that seems interesting, but this isn't even interesting. A Mac Mini is just a normal Mac. It's no surprise that you can put Linux on it. You can put Linux on any Mac. Hell, you can put Linux on an iPod. As for those who are obsessed with asking "why," why should we install Linux on anything? Because we can! That's good enough, isn't it? This story isn't News, it's only barely for Nerds, and it definitely doesn't Matter, when you consider that anyone who wants to put Linux on their Mac Mini already did so back when they were released.
  • Revenge of the Redhats ...
  • One guy stated it before, but if you want to code for PPC-based embedded systems, I could imagine that the Mini might be one of the cheapest solutions for your needs.

    Since many embedded systems are Linux based, this would make it a very viable option.

    I DO love OS X, but why not put Linux on a Mac? What's so wrong about it?

    It's not a sacrilege, guys 'n' gals!
  • You can program for PPC embedded systems right from your Linux PC and cross-compile. By definition, you won't be testing your code on the mac mini anyway, so why bother? I've cross-compiled OS and application code for SuperH, ARM, M32R, ST20 and other cpus from x86 servers, even using unattended build systems, and it's very efficient.

    Mac games: http://www.phelios.com/mac/macsites.html [phelios.com]
  • I think that the motivation behind buying a mac is about more than just software issues. Which is to say, purchasing an apple is about the Hardware as well as the software. When I recommend Macs to clients its about such issues as them not having to worry about OS compatability issues, or having to tweak for optimal performance.

    Windows on the other hand... To install Linux is about getting at the guts of the system and the high level of customisations and optimisation. Windows, having to cater for all t

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