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OS X Operating Systems

Rave Reviews for Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger 1088

druid_getafix writes "The first mass market reviews of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger are trickling in with a big thumbs up for the release. Walt Mossberg of the WSJ says 'Tiger Leaps Out in Front' but complains about slowness of some applications - notably Mail. David Pogue of NYT says 'But with apologies to Mac-bashers everywhere, Spotlight changes everything. Tiger is the classiest version of Mac OS X ever and, by many measures, the most secure, stable and satisfying consumer operating system prowling the earth.' In related news Mossberg also covers the rising incidence of spam/virii in the Windows world and says '...consider dumping Windows altogether and switching to Apple's Macintosh...'. Previous reviews of Tiger were covered on /. earlier."
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Rave Reviews for Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger

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  • Voice recognition (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suso ( 153703 ) * on Thursday April 28, 2005 @08:41AM (#12370198) Homepage Journal
    I think the whole voice recognition without having to configure it for your voice is pretty slick. I want a Mac.
  • by zorander ( 85178 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @08:49AM (#12370258) Homepage Journal
    Nope. Their CPU sales went up 40% last year without you. They don't need you or your demographic to be successful. Premium price for a premium product. Besides, the mini isn't a real part of their product line (kind of out of place, imo). Start with the iMac and factor out the price of a 20" LCD and you'll find that things make a little bit more sense.

    As a geek, you want a beige box that you can plug into your existing system. Apple doesn't want people to be using apples that don't look like apples, ergo it's not going to make as much sense to do it that way.
  • by Mikey-San ( 582838 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @08:55AM (#12370309) Homepage Journal
    As do I, but I really thing Apple need to do something about getting a cheap machine out. I can build my own for half the price of a Mac mini, and until they can match that they won't be getting any of my money, and I'm sticking with Windows.

    ROFLCOPTER. "Apple need to sell a cheap [$250] computer."

    An upgrade to Windows XP Professional is $200 alone. How much computer can you buy for that last $50? Sorry, but if you're going to complain that a $500 isn't cheap enough, I'm going to say you're a biased troll who thinks pirating an OS makes a computer cheaper for comparison purposes. You can't call something cheaper if you're stealing part of it.

    "Man, that $2000 PowerBook is too expensive. If they had a $1000 laptop, I'd buy one, but NOT SOONER NO OMG."

    "Man, that $1000 iBook is too expensive, but if they had a $700 Mac, I'd buy it. NOT SOONER, though!"

    "Man, that eMac isn't cheap enough for me. I can build my own computer for $10 and a pack of paper clips. Wake me when they sell an AFFORDABLE computer."

    "What? They're charging $500 for a computer?! Too bad they don't have a $250 computer, or I'd buy one."

    Pattern here?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @08:59AM (#12370343)
    1995? called and wants their os/2 warp back...
  • by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:00AM (#12370354)
    You can only build a machine cheaper if your time is worthless.

    I need someone to do some yard work can I hire you for $1 a day? That is your going computer assembly rate. So it won't be much of a difference.

    You do reaize that in order to put even a nano-itx board into a mac mini chassis, you can't have a cd-rom drive right?

  • by Loco3KGT ( 141999 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:01AM (#12370363)
    Uh, dude, you can't do that.

    you can't take a quote, edit it to death to remove the point of the sentence, and then call it hype. "consumer" was the key freakin point in that sentence and you just said "haha no. I shall rewrite this to mean something else and then call them liars!"

    Can you show me another consumer desktop OS that's as stable, secure, and satisfying? It ain't Linux, Linux isn't 'consumer' enough. No more than a Ford F-850 is a 'consumer' truck.
  • by Dystopian Rebel ( 714995 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:04AM (#12370392) Journal
    If Tiger indeed blows away XP

    Good G*d, man, in grasping the Tiger's tail let's not lose our grasp of Reality.

    OS X may be better than Redmond.*, but 95% of computer users and corporations would rather have a better OS ~that they can install on their current hardware~.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:05AM (#12370399)
    Should he also disclose that Apple recently kicked all of his books (as well as the rest of his publisher's books) out of their stores?
    If you're trying to invent a bias, you should mention a negative as well as positive influence too in the sake of 'neutrality'.... meh.
  • Re:Pity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cloudmaster ( 10662 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:09AM (#12370442) Homepage Journal
    Spotlight is "locate" with something like fam automatically updating a database when a file's name or metadata is changed. The gnu findutils have been on *nix systems- including OS X for a long time, and have been available under Win32 for as long. Windows also has had what's called "indexing service" since Win2K, and "Microsoft Fast Find" as part of Ms Office for a while. All of those things are file indxing systems like spotlight. All Apple did to "innovate" was to make the interface a little prettier and tie it in to Finder/Explorer/the file system API a little more tightly. It certainly doesn't "change everything", since I still plan to use locate from the terminal on OS X, like I've been doing since 10.2.

    Anyway, to get that functionality on your windows network, turn indexing service on - it's off by default. Then define some usage guidelines and distribute them to your users. The reason they can't all work together in a coherent way is that they don't have a coherent plan. Solving the problem with an index is not solving the problem, it's working around the problem. :)
  • Nested Folders (Score:2, Insightful)

    by hey ( 83763 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:12AM (#12370471) Journal
    The NYT article says:

    It's an enhancement that's so deep, convenient and powerful, it threatens to reduce the 20-year-old Mac/Windows system of nested folders to irrelevance.

    Er, of course, it was Unix that had nested folders first. Also I was just thinking... I think it would be a pretty horrible world if users just put all their stuff in the same folder - with no attempts to categorize things. That would make for some very horrible folders. Hey, something like some people's inboxes, I suppose.

    Unlike desktop search tools that encourage people not to organgize - how about tools that make it easy to organize. Eg easy symlinks.
  • what a load... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by ericbrow ( 715710 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:13AM (#12370479) Journal
    This post reminds me of Pres. Bush's "town hall" meetings. This is just an orgy love fest without any real critical comments being made at all.

    This is not to be intreperted as M$ is number one. I question any article that's all flowers and hugs.

  • by digitaldc ( 879047 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:19AM (#12370542)
    Why sell twice the machines at half the price ? That's double the amount of work for the same profit.
    Why? Simply to gain market share and get the word out there to the average PC user that there IS a better alternative to Windows. I guess they can also rest on their Laurels, but the world would be a better place with more Apples.
  • by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:20AM (#12370561)
    Well, the main reason I use Macs and MacOS isn'nt blazing speed differences and OMG!!! It just works!!! statments. although I have yet to install a driver to get something om my PowerBook to work. I don't know how they do it, but most things seem to not need a driver or use a preinstalled driver of some sort.

    I use Macs because they make me efficient. I feel more comfortable sith a Mac and lots and lots of nifty solutions make it a better platform for me. An example: When I work in Photoshop, all I need to do in order to view all the open pictures is to take the mouse in the lower right corner. Expose kicks in and I can see every picture I'm working on. If I want to see all the open apps and switch to another, mous in the lower left corner. Another example; everything is drag'n'drop. I'm composing an email and need a picture from a website? Just drag the pic from safari over in the email totally seamlessly. And both the email client and safari are preinstalled. Easy-peasy.

    There is so much to tell, but just try it. If it is good for you use it. If not, don't.
  • by lurch_mojoff ( 867210 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:25AM (#12370632)
    I'm pretty sure I had enough of this CoreImage_on_a_Mac mini!

    I don't see anyone in their right mind using mini for hadcore image or video manipulation! No one!

    And as far as iLife'06 will utilise CoreImage the performance of the mini will be just fine - not too much of realtime effects but enough to make a christmass DVD to send to your grandma.

    It is the other innovations in Tiger (i.e. Spotlight, Automator, etc.) that are to make a difference, not the ripple in Dashboard!
  • Re:Folders (Score:2, Insightful)

    by OfficerNoGun ( 686128 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:33AM (#12370738)
    I think you're missing the point. Instead of putting all of the files for project A in a folder called project A, you could tag the file with the term Project A (assuming that the term isnt already contained in the document). But say that the documents is for project A, and is some sort of invoice. With the traditional folder structure you would have to put it either in a Project A folder or an invoice folder. Folders limit you to one indentifier at a time (or at least a heirarchy of indentifiers) With spotlight you could instanly call up all invoices, all project A documents, all project A invoices, etc.
  • by zpok ( 604055 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:37AM (#12370791) Homepage
    "I just do NOT need to have a widget telling me the weather, I've windows in my house, thanks. Neither I need a stock tracker, or a currency converter, and much less a calculator or a calendar or a fligh tracker or a world clock (Why on earth would 99.9% of the global population want to know what time is in other part of the world?) "

    Um, some of us have lives that take us beyond those grimy windows? I LOVE the flight tracker, world clock and currency converter. To me these will be the three top most useful utilities. Having them in one environment instead of two browser windows and the calculator is not a trivial thing, however stupid that sounds.

    Apart from that, I agree, there's a lot more to be enthusiastic about.
  • Proper comparison (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lar3ry ( 10905 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:47AM (#12370938)
    Hardly XP Home.

    Apple has got this one right. There is NO "OS X Light." There's just one O/S to serve them all...

    OS X comes with web server (Apache), SSH server (where's that in XP anything?), a SQL database, and many other things that you can't get without XP Professional or even Win2000/2003 Server.

    Now, most of those "advanced" services are turned off by default, but they are there if you want to use them, and don't cost anything (other than the space they take up) if you don't ever configure them.

    I think Microsoft's OS strategy sucks, because it generalizes: I need Win2003 Server Standard Edition--or is it Enterprise Edition?--to get some of the services I need, but need XP (Home,Professional) to get the desktop bubblegum that my kids want. I can't pick and choose--Microsoft does it for me and I don't get a say in their selections!

    Of course, you can always get freeware/shareware or commercial add-ons, but that ups the price of the OS.

    So... the proper comparison is OS X would be to purchase XP Professional with bits of Windows 2003 Server (total cost, mucho dinero!).

    Who wants to bet that Microsoft will continue this silly strategy with Longhorn? I can see it now: Longhorn Home, Longhorn Professional, Longhorn Advanced Server, Longhorn Lite, Longhorn Media Edition, Longhorn Tablet Edition, Longhorn Pocket Edition... And what will developers target? (This requires Longhorn Home, with some bits of Longhorn Server, but is incompatible with the display driver in Longhorn Tablet...)
  • by Okonomiyaki ( 662220 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:49AM (#12370963) Homepage
    This point has been run into the ground by now but I guess some people still don't get it. If you started with 10.0, you have to pay $130 to get to this point. No one is forced to upgrade. If you don't consider the enhancements being offered to be worth the cost, don't upgrade. Panther will work just as well tomorrow as it did yesterday.
  • by Zemplar ( 764598 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:58AM (#12371066) Journal
    As always, it depends on the work you do. For me, it's either Windows or Mac to get the hardware support for one of my machines (every other machine is a *nix) slide scanners and other 'strange' hardware I really need to use. OF COURSE I'd prefer the Mac over the Windows machine anyday! So then, if you take your hardware costs coupled WITH software costs the Mac breaks even to a dreadful Windows box when you account for ALL the requried software to be as productive. For example, a antivirus subscription, firewall, spyware removal, good defragger, good backup, and many others...
  • Re:Sure... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by PaisteUser ( 810863 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @09:58AM (#12371071)
    You betcha... when it runs on an AMD processor. I would love to, but since Apple refuses to look at other hardware than what they have on their machines it isn't going to happen.

    You have to give credit to Apple for one thing though, by controlling the hardware that the software runs on, they can pretty much guarentee a good end-user expirience, less possible combinations of hardware to worry about, and makes it possible to include every piece of hardware that apple approves in the O/S. It makes the development cycle alot shorter when you only have one platform with specific hardware to worry about. Granted it's a different way of doing things then every other O/S and computer on the market, but it works for people who know that the product they by will never have driver problems, you just have to pay a little bit more for that quality assurance.
  • by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:00AM (#12371099)
    We use Groupwise at work, doesn't work there. But there's something interesing about your statement. You didn't know it until now. In the Mac world, there's this wierd feeling you get that "this probably works" and you try it. Usually it works. It is difficult to explain, but the global drag and drop feature is so thightly integrated that one tend to use it. In Windows, it works in some situations and not others. I don't have the time to find out what apps / situations that can have DND to make them more efficient. In Mac, you just do it.
    Sorry for the bad explanation, but the feeling is difficult to describe.
  • by PureCreditor ( 300490 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:02AM (#12371111)
    > DON'T ask the geeks here at /. they'll bog you down with arguments that have nothing to do with your reality ;-)

    Totally agreed. They will claim KDE and Gnome is the holy grail of desktop computing. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a far cry from Aqua. KDE and Gnome still requires the console for more than trivial tasks. Aqua, on the other hand, manages to hide the BSD-beast that's doing the crunch work.

    as a point of reference, I majored in CompSci, and have used a variety of Win, Mac, Unix/Linux.

    Windows - Grandma-usable GUI, and grandma-crashable kernel

    Unix/Linux - Super powerful, and only gurus can appreciate its GUI. Most the Linux desktops I've seen are covered with - (1) a web browser, (2) xmms, (3) a huge console.

    Mac - best of both worlds
  • Re:Please do... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by unconfused1 ( 173222 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:05AM (#12371147) Homepage
    When are you people going to stop chanting the inaccurate 'popularity' mantra? Windows' insecurity and number of viruses/worms/adware/spyware/etc that target it are because of how tremendously susceptible it is to having such things created and implemented against it. Read the bulletings from SecurityFocus and will find quickly that those insecurities in Windows are often caused by improper implementations of their own technologies. Making a claim that it is all about how many people use a specific operating system that makes an OS a target is unfounded. It is the insecurity of the system in the first place that taunts the virus writers...a large user base is just the bonus.
  • by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:06AM (#12371170)
    the whole point of the Mac voice control is that it DOESN'T NEED ANY TRAINING.

    of course a "well trained" system will be better. jeez...

    the Mac voice control isn't about, say, replacing typing (that will never work properly anyway). it's about commands. that's why it works so well - there are a limited number of words and phrases, though still some flexibility with precise phrasing.

    the best use imo is the things like "home phone for Joe Bloggs" which will access the Address Book and display in huge font the home number. dismiss it with "ok" or "thank you" etc.

    another good one is to select a file and say "mail this to Joe Bloggs" which open mail, starts a message to Joe and attatches the file. it's good because it actually saves time as opposed to a lot of voice control stuff which ends up taking LONGER than to just do it manually.
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) * on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:07AM (#12371189)
    I really like Spotlight, and I have to say that counter to your assessment that something needs to be built that will make things easier to organize that there are a lot of people that will never care and just dump documents somewhere.

    However I do agree that for those that seek a cleaner path, a tool that made the creation of symlinks much easier for normal people would be cool. To some extent Smart Folders in spotlight and other systems fill this role in that a smart folder is sort of like getting a directory with links to all of the files from one subject. But I think you might end up with results not quite exactly what you want at times - like too many files or perhaps missing a few. So a tool that let you build a set of symlinks using spotlight as a base might be pretty interesting and has the possibility of eliminating the need for photo management apps for many people.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:10AM (#12371234)
    One of the more important things in Tiger is that it has an interface for the blind (VoiceOver) built into the OS.

    Now at first you might think "so what" but consider this. To get a voiced interface in Windows that the blind can use you must buy one of two add on products WindowEyes or Jaws. The retail price for either of these products is $850.00 for Jaws and $760.00 wor WindowEyes (WindowEyes will breaks under WindowsXP SP2.)

    So consider this, for less that the price of either one of these products, and I've used both and neither one is a good as Apple's built in solution, you could BUY a new MacMini and get the screen reader built in. That's right folk you could get a NEW COMPUTER and the screenreader for less than the cost of the screenreading software alone under windows.

    I predict here and now that Microsoft will buy one of the two screen readers for windows and bundle it with Windows. The makers other screen reader will promptly go out of business.
  • by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:15AM (#12371308) Homepage
    This pattern is real, but it exists not because would-be Mac owners are stand-offish about parting with money, but because PC prices have dropped, and dropped faster than Mac prices.

    The problem, of course, is that people look at the cost of the hardware alone, and not the cost of the OS, upgrades, and applications and the value of the security and usability advantages provided by Apple. Windows piracy (and Windows applications piracy) probably hurts Apple more than it hurts Microsoft.
  • by dr00g911 ( 531736 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:21AM (#12371391)
    A lot of people will make this into a religious debate -- which I'm guilty of from time to time -- but it's really just a matter of personal taste.

    I have Macs and Win boxes in both my home and work offices. I've got a Debian box at home as well.

    There are very specific tasks that work better on the PC in my opinion. For me, those tasks are games and Maya. This is coming from an artist's perspective primarily, a coder's perspective second and gamer's third.

    Everything else, I use my Macs for because they just 'feel' right. It feels like I'm drawing with my left hand to use Photoshop under Windows with an identical interface and mostly identical key commands. Mouse acceleration curves feel funky, and I loathe -- nay -- LOATHE the fact that the majority of apps I use have to have a second desktop behind them (that gray background you get when 'maximized'). I like seeing my desktop. I like having a palette monitor that's got my email client in the non-palette space. I like the Mac's implementation of drag & drop. I like the lack of reliance on the second mouse button to do everyday tasks.

    Quark Xpress 6+ is flaky on any platform at any speed, however type is significantly more manageable and supported on the Mac.

    BBEdit is reason enough to buy a Mac, all by itself if you're a coder. It's rocked my world for years (network-wide find & replace from circa '95 -- maybe earlier) and just keeps getting better.

    Don't even get me started about Windows and CMYK support, professional level color management, search functionality ("find" was practically instant across all drives and servers BEFORE spotlight -- now we have instant filename, content and context-sensitive metadata). Coupled with 45 minutes on my 3ghz P4 to search just my frigging C: and D: drives.

    Once you get yourself immersed in the Mac, it fits like a tailored suit -- there's an astounding amount of tiny bits of polish and subtle features that have been cloned to the Win side by someone who didn't understand the meaning of elegance or subtlety (see the Longhorn 'Glass' demo that's surfacing for a prime example).

    Anyhow, at home I choose my relatively slow 17" flat panel iMac G4 over my screaming and fully loaded gaming and Maya PC for almost every task because I'm more productive and happier. YMMV.
  • by deacon ( 40533 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:23AM (#12371409) Journal
    You can only build a machine cheaper if your time is worthless.

    A common error in economics.

    Your time is only worth something if someone is PAYING you for it.

    Unless you have other paying work you could or want to be doing instead of building a computer, the time you spend on the computer is worth exactly zero in money terms.

    Oh, and if you use Fedora Core 3, and follow Stanton Finley's [] setup guide, you end up with a great OS, that was both free and Free, (you don't have to steal it.)

    Use the setup guide to install apt and Synaptic, and you will have a system which is insanely easy to update and install software on.

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) * on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:24AM (#12371420)
    The plethora of Mac's gee-whiz features (dashboard, rendezvous, expose, neato startup modes) that barely get used are becoming less and less valuable to me as the Apple hardware continues to lag behind.

    I think that's an unfair statement unless you use a Mac day to day. Some of them look like eye candy but really are not. Rondevouz really is useful if you have two or more computers. I use Expose pretty heavily as it's a great productivity tool. And while I do not yet have dashboard I know how often I turn to the calculator or calendar to know I'll find it handy.

    And while yes you can get a slower older no-name computer for less and put Linux on it so it's usable, it's still a lot of bother. I ran Linux for a long time as well, and still do at work (on one of two computers) where it's either that or Windows. But I really enjoy not having to spend time fiddling with a computer at home and just working on it, that's what Macs excel at.
  • by sammy baby ( 14909 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:30AM (#12371502) Journal
    There's some evidence to suggest that they're headed in this direction already. The last time their Powerbook line got a bump, they also got a mild price cut. Their Cinema Displays also just had a mild price cut, bringing their average cost from "an arm and a leg" to "a hand and everything below the knee."

    Of course, once their sales hit a certain level, their incentive to keep dropping prices goes away, and there's only so much growth a company like Apple can reasonably expect to support in a given period. So, in other words, ignore me completely.
  • by Gulthek ( 12570 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:30AM (#12371510) Homepage Journal
    Comparing process clock cycles between x86 chips and powerpc chips is a meaningless exercise. It's how much gets done during each cycle that's important. Much harder to casually measure, so use the machines you are interested in and see how you like their responsiveness in the tasks you like to do.

    Go to the Apple store, play with a computer in your price range. Edit some photos, browse the web, launch some apps, mess around. And then do the same on a comparable system at (Best Buy, Fry's, etc) and see what you think.

    Or go to CompUSA and hit both in one store.
  • by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuation&gmail,com> on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:34AM (#12371557)
    "Not to me it doesn't."

    But that's the thing...when you start discussing alternatives to the Mac Mini, you are implying that the features of the Mini, including its size, are a consideration. You're paying a premium for the small size, as you would pay a premium for the small size of a laptop. The Mini (and other SFF PC's) are a distinct line of products than regular towers.

    It's the equivalent of comparing a compact car to a pickup truck, when your needs can only be met in the first place by a pickup truck. In which case, you should have been comparing various truck lines to one another in the first place.
  • Price Point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rihahn ( 879725 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:46AM (#12371735)
    I keep seeing all of these posts where someone mentions they can get a PC with 'X' ram, 'X' HD, 'X' CPU for 'X' cheaper than a Mac... You can also go buy a $1000 Honda and add all sorts of ground effects, spoilers, lights, and other 'performance' mods and have a pretty quick little car that will beat a BMW 740il soundly... But it's still a Honda. And unless you're stupid, you'll wind up going down the road at the exact same speed as that Beemer. The only difference is that you added all of that stuff to your car, you know every rattle and squeak, tolerate the lousy ride because you can corner like no ones business, have bass that can make your neighbors evaporate, and you can fix any of it easily or upgrade it... Meanwhile the guy with the Beemer has a 10-year warrantee that covers tears in the upholstery and doesn't have to think about the car, he just drives it. He gets to spend his weekends out playing with his kids rather than tweaking a new intake manifold, can drive the car from Denver to L.A. without worrying about the radiator being two sizes too small for the type-R motor that has been shoehorned into the car, and his stock sound system is pretty nice because he doesn't need 3000 watts to overcome the #10 coffee can exhaust system. Of course the average /.'er drives a VW Thing that was hand built by everyone he/she knows, only runs on methanol that he/she makes in the back yard, has the steering wheel on the wrong side, and requires three keys to start. ;)
  • by Mistah Blue ( 519779 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:49AM (#12371792)
    Hmmm... do you have kids? From your comments I doubt it. Let me tell you, as the father of 5 yr old twins it is a scary world out there. Much different than when I grew up. There are a bunch of bad people out there that would love to do my kids harm, both online and in the physcial world. It is my responsibility to protect them, but also temper that so as not to be over protective. I appreciate all the help vendors can give, so I can decide what to do. Not the government, not you, but me and my wife.

    On a lighter note... my Tiger shipment is on the FedEx truck for delivery today. Woohoo!

  • by syphax ( 189065 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:51AM (#12371816) Journal
    It sure would be nice if Macs were more affordable.

    But Apple seems to be of the opinion that they can maximize profits by maintaining good margins with relatively small market share, rather than trying to increase market share substantially with much lower margins (at least for computers- portable music players is a totally different story; Apple seems to be able to command pretty good margins *and* high market share; good for them).

    It's too bad, b/c the world could use more Macs, but it's a sane strategy. Apple has picked their niche and is nailing it. It'd be insane for them to try to challenge Dell and/or MS head-on; they'd get crushed (again).

    That said, I will watch the evolution of the Mac Mini, presumably poised to be the (cliched) household digital hub, with much interest.
  • by EvilTwinSkippy ( 112490 ) <> on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:53AM (#12371849) Homepage Journal
    Apple has managed to stay in business for 25 years. They have managed to turn a profit for the last 5 years. This is especially good performance given the nosedive the technology industry has been during the same period.

    I dare say they know what they are doing. That's like saying Daimler Benz should drop the price on their high end cars to compete with GM.

    They aren't even in the same Market.

  • by water-and-sewer ( 612923 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:56AM (#12371881) Homepage
    OS X may be better than Redmond.*, but 95% of computer users and corporations would rather have a better OS ~that they can install on their current hardware~.

    Not true. That's true for geeks like us. Most people have absolutely no what an operating system IS, and upgrade their lifestyle by buying a new computer. I am currently finishing a masters degree with a bunch of people that complain they need a new computer, because "this one just doesn't work anymore." They're using P4s and Windows 2000, and are going to upgrade to XP, not aware you don't have to get rid of your existing hardware. For that matter, they could speed up their machines by simply reformating all the spyware off and starting with a fresh system, but no. They're going to to pick out a "better" machine.
    Thank God for those people. I get lots of good quality, 1 year old hardware from them for cheap. Not my fault they didn't take the time to learn about their computers.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @10:56AM (#12371882)
    Realistically, the only machine that's overpriced is the PowerMac, particularly the uniprocessor version (1.8Ghz, 600Mhz FSB, 256MB RAM, 80GB Hard disk, no monitor, $50 graphics card (FX5200) and all for $1500+). The dual processor versions, as well as having two G5s, also have extremely fast FSBs (1Ghz in the top-end model).

    However every other part of the market is nicely catered for:

    You've got the Mac Mini starting at $500, the eMac starting at $850, and for people who like a bit of style, the iMac starting at $1300. You can add an extra $75 to all of these to upgrade to 512MB of RAM, but otherwise that's it. The software bundle is quite respectable, and if AppleWorks doesn't do it for you, you can get iWork for another $80.

    For the overall quality of the system you get, that's pretty decent.

    All those systems are rubbish for games of course, but Macs aren't made for gamers. One thing I'd like that change is the graphics card in the low-end MacMini and eMac models, the Radeon 9200. Core Image doesn't support it, but does support the Geforece FX5200 which is only about $15 dearer in retail.

    The fact is, that for the first time in some while, Apple actually has a fairly decent spread of hardware for all the major markets. The low-end PowerMac's a bit of a joke, but that's the only issue in an otherwise respectable store.

    As for iPod sales, that markets going to turn down pretty soon (that kind of growth isn't sustainable), and I suspect it's already subsidising the iTMS. Apple Corp. doesn't take chances: why do you think it's still not dead after 25 years of dying? Further, they've a huge internal R&D department which most likely sucks up a large amount of cash earning through hardware as well as software; they don't see the economies of scale that Microsoft does.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @11:06AM (#12372025)
    you're good training for him to throw lighting bolts at.

    You seem to have your God confused with someone elses. Unless Thor rely is Jesus, which would at least make Christianity slightly interesting.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @11:09AM (#12372070)

    Close enough, don't bitch about silly things like that. I use virii in common speech when I discuss it, so what is wrong with typing it?

    Google was once just a name, now it's a verb etc due to it's now accepted meaning as a verb (i.e. "to search").

    In fact, if you look up the word "word" in a decent dictionary you'll note that it is any spoken or otherwise communicated utterence, symbol, or series of symbols that conveys a meaning.
  • by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @11:12AM (#12372105)
    Initially, you'd be less productive (say one week, tops) and afterwards you'll probably be a lot more productive.

    To add to what the parent is saying:

    IMO this will start exactly when you purchase a two-button mouse for your Mac.

    And you can take that as funny, but as for giving advice to anyone who has been using Windows for the past 5 years and is planning on switching to a Mac, I'm serious. I tried to make myself use the one button mouse for a few weeks and then I went out and bought a nice MS scroll wheel laser light one and OS X stopped feeling akward and everything fell into place.

    Everything in OS X has support for right click so you might as well take advantage of it.

    And for work flow and stability... There are a few nags and oddities, but after a while you start saying to yourself "This makes a whole lot more sense this way instead of what I used to do!"
  • by Colol ( 35104 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @11:20AM (#12372227)
    Beginning April 29th, upgrade discs will probably be stuffed into retail stock. I've never purchased a computer from the Apple Store Online, so I don't know if they do the same.

    Preinstalled, probably a week or two from Friday.
  • by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @11:27AM (#12372320) Homepage Journal
    PC prices have dropped, and dropped faster than Mac prices.

    So has the quality, the security...
    Somethings are worth paying good money for, somethings are cheap in more ways than one.
  • by As Seen On TV ( 857673 ) <> on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:10PM (#12373722)
    When we rolled out Panther, there were many new features that would only work in 10.3. I think it took about three months for developers to start using those features with confidence.

    And the momentum behind Tiger is considerably higher than it was behind the previous release.

    Expect adoption of Tiger to happen very quickly.
  • by anomaly ( 15035 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <3repooc.mot>> on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:29PM (#12374734)
    I love Linux. I've used it on the desktop at home for about 8 years. Linux can't compare with my Powerbook in terms of desktop user experience. My Mac 'just works.'

    The hardware you're talking about has the same capacity hard disk and RAM. There's a 2.3GHz celeron compared to the 1.25 GHz G4. If you're talking about raw GHz, I guess you have Apple beat.

    Video? I'm sure that the included video adapter is superior on the mini. Does your server have a modem? A DVD player, CD burner? Audio in or out? USB? Firewire?

    But Linux has free software! Those free applications push Linux ahead, right?

    Photo management? gPhoto has pretty good camera support - if you're using the right USB drivers. That gets the photos from the camera - now, what about organizing and editing photos? Slideshows with transitions, audio, etc? iPhoto kicks butt here.

    Video editing? First find and configure the firewire card drivers for the chipset you have, then go get what? Cinelerra? Too hard for a linux geek to make work. VirtualDub, Kino? WAAAAY too limited in terms of features and ease of use.

    DVD mastering? Don't get me started...

    Music software? XMMS is pretty handy for playing music, but organizing, sorting? Grip for capturing the data...

    OpenOffice and GAIM on linux are fine tools. NeoOffice and Adium are fine tools on my Mac, and they work almost identically on the Mac.

    The point is that it's POSSIBLE to do these things on linux. On my Mac, it's EASY.

    Write a letter, print it to a remote printer, rip a CD and copy it to a USB or firewire equipped MP3 player, take digital photos, create a slideshow with music, export it to a readily available format (doesn't have to be quicktime, but find something equally easy for the recipient to use.... Compare start-to-finish time on both platforms. My Mac clobbers linux in this.

    Don't get me wrong here I'm a big Linux geek. My Mac makes desktop computing useful and usable.

  • by strikethree ( 811449 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @03:22PM (#12375416) Journal
    I do have kids and I can guarantee you that the world is not any more dangerous than it was 50 years ago, 500 years or even 5000 thousand years ago... except kids are less likely to be eaten by wild animals now. I always hear people saying, "kids nowadays! they are so much more X than when I was their age." or, "Things have changed so much from when I was a kid." Let me clue you in buddy. Sure, there are cycles where things are a little more this or a little more that (or a little less!) but for the most part, people are not changing. The internet did not suddenly create a bunch of sick people hunting down your child. Those people were always there. The internet did not create a whole new class of racists/paedophiles/[insert other dangerous scary type person here].

    It is always the same old song and dance. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

  • by bani ( 467531 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @08:24AM (#12405833)

    Apple has two OS product lines. Targeted differently and priced differently.

    OS X [] - $129 (equivalent I guess, to XP Home [])
    OS X Server [] - $499 (equivalent to XP Pro []).

    So really, apple is doing exactly the same thing microsoft is doing.

Only God can make random selections.