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Apple Announces Tiger Release Date 981

GatorMarc writes "Well, it's official. Tiger will be released into the wild on April 29th with more than 200 new features, including Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator, VoiceOver, Safari RSS, Core Audio, and Core Image." Additional commentary available on ThinkSecret and MacWorld.
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Apple Announces Tiger Release Date

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  • Reviews? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by salemlb ( 857652 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:40AM (#12211615)
    Anyone have any reviews for Tiger on any hardware platform? I'm sure Ars will have one up (complaining about the finder again) before too much longer. Anything to convince me to take my g3 700 640mb iBook to Tiger in the meantime?
    • Re:Reviews? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Golias ( 176380 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:54AM (#12211774)
      Anyone have any reviews for Tiger on any hardware platform?

      Sure thing. Here you go:

      It's total shit on the Athlon XP 2500+. You can't even get it to boot up. Less functionality than either Linux or Windows.

      I hear it works much better on other platforms, specifically Apple-built PPC systems, but you will have to look at other reviews for that information.
      • Re:Reviews? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:24AM (#12212110)
        Did you even try Intel? I hate AMD-fanboys on Slashdot.
    • Still under NDA (Score:5, Informative)

      by kuwan ( 443684 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:58AM (#12211810) Homepage
      Well, considering that it's still under NDA you're probably not going to see a lot of reviews on it. Or, you may see a lot of reviews that will then quickly disappear courtesy of Apple Legal. I did read a good one that I can't find right now (it was probably taken down) where the reviewer said that he couldn't go back to Panther after using Tiger. Tiger, even though the version he had was a little buggy, was so much faster than Panther that he'd rather live with the bugs than give up the speed. I think he was using either an iBook or a PowerBook.

      Anyway, some real tests need to be done, but it's looking good so far.
      Join the Pyramid - Free Mini Mac [freeminimacs.com]
      • That really surprises me. The feedback we've gotten from developers trying to use Tiger builds, all the way up to A420, is that it's far too slow for everyday use. It's much slower than Panther in those builds because nothing has been optimized. It has a lot of debugging code that makes everything run very, very slowly compared to 10.3.

        I suspect you might have seen a bogus "review."

        Tiger is a great OS. But the development builds are not fast.
        • Re:Still under NDA (Score:5, Informative)

          by TylerL82 ( 617087 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:40AM (#12212326) Homepage
          The first half-hour of using Tiger might be noticeably slower because Spotlight's indexing the entire hard drive.

          After the one-time full indexing, files will be indexed as they're created on-the-fly.
        • by squiggleslash ( 241428 ) * on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @03:31PM (#12215531) Homepage Journal
          I[tt] surprises me it's out this early to be honest, what I heard is that Tiger's been delayed indefinitely, due to a major bug [kottke.org] and a political issue. Apparently in tests, it took over 20 minutes to copy a 17Mb file from one folder to another. The copy, apparently, causes Netscape to hang, and puts a lot of strain on editors like BBEdit lite.

          As if to add insult to injury, Steve Jobs has apparently dealt with this inevitable delay by ordering that the BSD-underpinnings of the operating system be stripped out and replaced with GNU or Unix code, citing an internal study that shows BSD developers in complete disarray, with usage - based upon Usenet postings - showing a definite decline in BSD support. Perhaps if Apple ported Mac OS X to Intel, they wouldn't be suffering these problems.

          On an unrelated note, I've just heard on Talk Radio that the famed computer hacker Stephen Wozniak has died, aged 54. Whether you enjoyed his Integer BASIC interpreter, you can't deny his contribution to modern computing. Truly an American icon.

    • Re:Reviews? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Reaperducer ( 871695 )
      I have a 1.5 Ghz Powerbook, and a 500 Mhz iBook. I'll be upgrading both. A lot of Wintel-types will complain that $129 is too much for a point release. But there are a lot of reasons I'll be shelling out my $200 that haven't been covered on the rumor sites, and will work fine on the older iBook:

      - Preview now reads Adobe DNG images.
      - Preview now reads RAW images.
      - Built-in no internet connection needded dictionary.
      - Built-in language translator.
      - Built-in flight tracker.
      - Envelope printing from Ad
    • FINK with Tiger? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bach37 ( 602070 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:32AM (#12212209)
      Any fink developers out there? Will fink be down for the count for awhile, until new binary packages are made for Tiger?
  • Crap (Score:4, Interesting)

    by grahamsz ( 150076 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:40AM (#12211628) Homepage Journal
    I ordered a mini last night. Will i be able to get them to send a tiger upgrade or will that be another $100.
  • by amliebsch ( 724858 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:42AM (#12211641) Journal
    But congratulations to Apple for what sounds like it will be another quality release. I personally don't plan on switching any time soon, but it pleases me to see some strong competition re-entering this marketplace. While I doubt this is the end of Microsoft, it certainly means they will have to get off their asses. The complacency of the last five years is over.
  • Mac Mini update? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rylin ( 688457 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:42AM (#12211643)
    What I want to know is when the Mac Mini gets updated with a graphics card that CoreImage can use to its full extent.
    • Re:Mac Mini update? (Score:5, Informative)

      by the_2nd_coming ( 444906 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211670) Homepage
      core image is an API... it will use the fasted thing on your Mac to do the rendering work.. if you have a 128 MB GFX card but the processor will get the job done faster, then it will use the processor.
      • Re:Mac Mini update? (Score:4, Informative)

        by rylin ( 688457 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:03AM (#12211860)
        The thing is, CoreImage won't use the 9200 at all
        When a programmable GPU is present, Core Image utilizes the graphics card for image processing operations, freeing the CPU for other tasks. And if you have a high-performance card with increased video memory (VRAM), you'll find real-time responsiveness across a wide variety of operations.

        Core Image-capable graphics cards include:

        * ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
        * ATI Radeon 9600 XT, 9800 XT, X800 XT
        * nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200
        * nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
        * nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL
    • by pastpolls ( 585509 )
      Can you explain to me what you are doing on a Mac Mini that requires CoreImage or CoreVideo? Seems to me like these APIs were designed for video and image editing professionals, who is not the target audience for a mini.
  • Great... (Score:4, Funny)

    by jschroering ( 611063 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:42AM (#12211644)
    ..now we'll need to a new product to speculate about every other day!

  • by adam mcmaster ( 697132 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:43AM (#12211648) Homepage
    I submitted this about an hour ago, and it was rejected. Should I be offended that they accept everyone else's dupes but not mine? Ah, well.

    It is interesting to note that, at least in the UK, Tiger is actually £10 cheaper than the current price for Panther (the previous release). They're also giving those who order now access to an exclusing "Online Seminar", which sounds quite interesting. I can't wait until next month when my copy arrives :)
  • Geez! (Score:5, Funny)

    by mattmentecky ( 799199 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211658)
    Sunday he wins the Masters Golf Tournament [masters.org] and already they are naming an OS release in his honor after him!
  • by Uire ( 573281 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211662)
    According to the new system requirements. [apple.com] old tray-load iMac owners, and probably old Firewire-less iBook owners too, are at the end of the OS line. While sad, this isn't entirely surprising. But, since Firewire seems to be the deciding factor, one wonders what the fate of the newer but still Firewire-less slot-load 350MHz iMacs [apple-history.com] will be.
  • by monkeywork ( 614661 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211666) Homepage
    As a recent "switcher" I've enjoyed OSX and this update improves on pretty much all the items I use day to day. I'll be purchasing it as soon as it arrives.
  • List of New Features (Score:5, Informative)

    by ckswift ( 700993 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211667)
    Here is the entire list of the 200+ New Features:

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/newfeature s.html [apple.com]
  • Java 5 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 2starr ( 202647 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:44AM (#12211668) Homepage
    This is great news, but the lack of mentioning Java 5 makes me think that it won't be included right away. That's sad news for me...
  • by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:45AM (#12211681) Homepage
    Just a quick note that despite some rumors, the family pack still exists.
    • 1 Copy - $130
    • 2 Copies - $200 (Save $70)
    • 3 Copies - $200 (Save $200)
    • 4 Copies - $200 (Save $330)
    • 5 Copies - $200 (Save $500)

    What a deal for multiple computer households. I can't wait. I just wish the free update for new Macs was retroactive to January's announcements.

    • With correct math (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Just to correct the strange math in the parent post:

      • 1 Copy - $130
      • 2 Copies - $200 (Save $60)
      • 3 Copies - $200 (Save $190)
      • 4 Copies - $200 (Save $320)
      • 5 Copies - $200 (Save $450)
  • Apple envy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CCelebornn ( 829849 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:46AM (#12211693)
    The more I see of MacOS X and the more features they put in there, the more I realise just how slow devopment on the Windows platform is. Think of the progression thats been made from Apple, then compare that to Windows. The last great leap was done with Windows 2000 IMO: but even then for the desktop users there was nothing really knew.

    Spotlight, Dashboard & Automator all look like great additions. I know there are perhaps Windows alternatives, but can any of them claim to be as slick as Apples?

    I'm a Windows user, but as time goes on the thought of an mac mini just to give the OS a try becomes more and more tempting.
    • Get the Mini (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ToasterTester ( 95180 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:35AM (#12212268)
      I picked up one of the Mini's and they are a blast to work on. The great Mac interface, lots of quality software, and Unix under the hood. Been getting up to speed on Apple development and nice free tools. Plus it is a great central box. You can get a MS Remote Desktop Client, then it has ssh for get to my Unix boxes. So one nice place to work from.
  • by solios ( 53048 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:47AM (#12211707) Homepage
    As discussed in this [drunkenblog.com] Drunkenblog interview. Of the Core fillintheblanks, it's easily the spiffiest.

    The other feejurs, imo, are just fluff. Unless they've sunk some serious improvements into mail, ical and iphoto.

    I don't want MORE features, I want the features they're shipping to be developed beyond vestigial buzzwords (re: OpenDoc in the OS 8 era).
  • Department (Score:5, Funny)

    by Moby Cock ( 771358 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:52AM (#12211752) Homepage
    from the forward-down-forward/down-punch dept.

    Heh. Version 10.4.1 should be called Tiger Uppercut.
  • Core Data (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stang7423 ( 601640 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:54AM (#12211770)

    Am I the only one excited about the core data technology? In every write up of Tiger I have seen so far have not mentioned this new technology.

    I mean come on. It gives you save, undo and redo functionality for free, no extra coding. Plus if you make good use of cocoa bindings in interface builder you could build a complete simple application with out writing a single line of code manually. That is pretty freaking sweet.

    Maybe its just the geek in me but I think its cool. Plus you can save in multiple different file formats, binary, xml, or sqllite.

    More Here: http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/coredata.h tml [apple.com]

    • Re:Core Data (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Builder ( 103701 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:24AM (#12212100)
      No, you're not. I'm actually holding off development of a new app because I'm waiting for this.

      It will cut my development time by days and I'll be able to have a prototype out the door in a week. I really love the way it hooks into Interface Builder so that even during the dev stage, you can just lob a view to your data in there, and see how you think it will work best for the user.

      The fact that you can save to something like sqllite means that it will be trivial to slap a web front end on your app as well.
      • Re:Core Data (Score:4, Interesting)

        by jwthompson2 ( 749521 ) <james.plainprograms@com> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @01:21PM (#12213796) Homepage
        Core Data has the potential to be a huge aid in development, especially if it is as easy to switch between XML and Binary as Apple claims. I'm also looking forward to tweaking some of my existing apps to use it. One question that I haven't got an answer to though. Will there be anyway to backport the functionality, any ADC Premeirs out there know if Core Data's .framework will be embedable and able to be targeted to pre 10.4 versions of OS X?

        If so, YIPEE...if not, ok...
    • Re:Core Data (Score:4, Insightful)

      by brainnolo ( 688900 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @02:07PM (#12214430) Homepage
      Core Data was the missing piece in the puzzle.

      If you adopt the MVC (Model-View-Controller) style you can see that the first piece has been Interface Builder, which eliminated the need to write code for the View in an excellent way.

      In 10.3 Cocoa Bindings (accessible via Interface Builder as well) eliminated the need to write code for the controller functions for the values setters/getters through they Key-Value technology (obviously you still need to write the parts that do some actions).

      With Core Data now you do not even need to write anymore a BIG part of the Model, the data containers. This makes you able to limit in most cases your coding work to the actual elaboration of data, avoiding the storing/retrieving part which is the most boring, and as Apple demonstrated, can be generalized in most cases.
  • by bats ( 8748 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @10:54AM (#12211776) Homepage
    Tiger finally provides 64-bit apps, right? Not quite. In their 64-bit apps overview document [apple.com], Apple slips in the bad news. Neither the Carbon or Cocoa APIs are 64-bit, so no graphics apps can be 64-bit. Their solution is to create a 64-bit command line app and wrapper it with a 32-bit frontend, communicating through pipes, shared memory, etc.

    While that's all well and good and the Unix Way, its disappointing that graphical apps should be hamstrung in such a way. If you need big memory access and OpenGL, you've got quite a few hoops to jump through. As a linux weenie who made the switch, I'm saddened by crumbs we keep getting as Apple strings us along towards 64-bit land. Linux has been 64-bit for a very long time now and even Microsoft's 64-bit XP is fully 64-bit including graphics.

    At least my G5 is still the 'world's fastest personal computer'.
    • Hmm. This limitation makes some sense. Most applications will suffer a performance penalty if compiled as 64-bit code (i.e. pointers will take more load / store operations). On x86, this is offset by the fact that 64-bit code gains a number of general purpose registers, but PowerPC does not get this boost, since it was designed as a 32/64-bit ISA originally.

      It might have been a bit neater if they had kept the pointer size for Cocoa / Carbon (does anyone sane use Carbon?) as 32-bit, and provided a 32-b

    • by rufo ( 126104 ) <rufo@rufosan c h e z . c om> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:32AM (#12212212)
      One of the interesting things about the move to 64-bit is that unlike going from IA32 to AMD64 on Windows, on Mac OS X there is no speed boost from targetting the G5. All the speed boosts you're ever going to get from compiling for a G5 are there and enabled in Panther; all you get from moving your app to 64-bit is 64-bit addressing, and as such, a slight drop in speed. This will hopefully be offset by the fact that your app actually needs more then 4GB of memory space. This sort of makes 64-bit apps less neccessary/desirable then it does in the PC world.
    • by As Seen On TV ( 857673 ) <asseen@gmail.com> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:35AM (#12212271)
      You're missing something massively important. The reason why we chose not to release 64-bit versions of the UI frameworks is that they run much slower than the 32-bit versions.

      User interface code is really pretty messy when you get right down to it. You're doing a lot of abstraction, moving a lot of pointers and integers around. On exactly the same G5-based computer, a 64-bit UI is going to run considerably slower than a 32-bit UI because of cache exhaustion. Because you're using pointers that are twice as big as you need them to be, you can only fit half as many of them in the various caches that are there to speed up your computer's performance. That effectively cuts your caches in half.

      So we had two choices: Either waste a ton of developer time releasing 64-bit-clean versions of the UI frameworks and then tell our developers not to use them, or just don't ship them at all.

      Believe me, the Final Cut Pro and Shake teams were pissed off about this. Their expectation was that they'd be able to release 64-bit versions of their applications by NAB. But a 64-bit version of FCP with 64-bit Pro Kit is less interactive than the 32-bit version on the same hardware, for very marginal gains in actual utility. FCP is already very good at making use of up to 2 GB of RAM when dealing with hundreds of gigabytes of data on disk; adding 64-bit support would have helped few and hindered many.
  • Liger (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheClassic ( 816274 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:03AM (#12211873) Journal
    I'd totally making the switch if it was named "Liger." It's pretty much my favorite animal. It's like a lion and a tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic.
  • by kajoob ( 62237 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:05AM (#12211895)
    As a new mac user that just recently switched from the windows world, I have a question for the mac people....

    It's well settled in the windows world that an upgrade of the os is only done as a last resort - the first option is backing up, doing a clean install, then importing all your data. Is the same true for OSX, or will just upgrading tiger be the same as a clean install?

    I finally have everything tweaked on my mini and would hate to have to reinstall all my apps etc. TIA.
    • by D'Arque Bishop ( 84624 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:18AM (#12212043) Homepage
      Well, you're in luck. Mac OS X (as of 10.2) came with an upgrade option called "Archive and Install". Basically, what it does is it takes your old system files, puts them in a special folder called "Previous System", and then loads a clean copy of the new OS. During this install you're given the option of saving all of your old settings.

      That's actually the method I used to upgrade my Powerbook from Jaguar to Panther, and it worked almost flawlessly. (The only issue was that my Palm HotSync Manager stopped working, but a reinstall of the Palm software fixed that.) I'd personally say it's the best way to cleanly upgrade your system and maintain your current settings.

      If you want more info on Archive and Install (as of Panther), just click here [apple.com].

      Just my $.02...
      • If you want to avoid some apps breaking (like HotSync did), carefully merge the "Previous System/Library" folder contents into your new /Library folder. You have to know what's going on in there, but it's a lot faster.

        If you don't know what's in there, app reinstalls work just as well.
    • Basically, what you want is what OS X calls an 'Archive & Install'.

      This takes your /System/ folder, and your /Applications/ folder, and puts them in a compressed disk image called (IIRC) /Previous Systems/Previous System 1.dmg.

      Note, that your /Users/ folder can also be included in that image (if you don't check the 'Restore users' option).

      Then, when the OS installs, it replaces any items /Applications/ which are bundled in the OS, creates a new /System/ and (if 'Restore Users' isn't selected) a new /
  • DVD (Score:3, Informative)

    by mrpuffypants ( 444598 ) * <mrpuffypants&gmail,com> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @11:26AM (#12212130)
    Also interesting to note that Tiger ships on a DVD now. Is this the first mainstream OS to ship on DVD ever?
    • Re:DVD (Score:5, Interesting)

      by toddestan ( 632714 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @12:02PM (#12212677)
      Yes, but does it come with a version that's not a DVD too? Until fairly recently, Apple was still selling computers with just a CD-ROM drive (eMac, and iBooks for the education market). Will these people be able to buy a CD version, or are they just screwed?
  • Info about Widgets (Score:3, Informative)

    by sammykrupa ( 828537 ) <sam@theplaceforitall.com> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @12:04PM (#12212705) Homepage Journal
    Here is a site devoted to OS X Widgets:

    http://www.dashboardlineup.com/ [dashboardlineup.com]

  • by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @12:56PM (#12213477) Homepage
    I recently bought a Mac (about a month or two ago) so I don't qualify for the cheap upgrade as far as I know. But I'm still definitely going to pay for this upgrade.

    My experience with OS X has been nothing short of amazing. I look between my Mac and my XP machine and wonder why the heck I'm using the latter, when the former is more stable, easier to work with, and generally a hell of a lot more slick. Everybody who's come by has looked at it and scoffed, but when you sit them in front of it and have them play around, most people are sold on the things.
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) * on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @01:22PM (#12213810)
    One of the things really improved in this release that gets no press is TextEdit.

    Already better than WordPad or Notepad (primarily because you can operate either ina normal or rich text mode), it has a lot of great enhancements - you can read Word files more easily (I think it comes with table support now and can read XML files saved out by Word), you can do bulleted lists, and even better you can save as HTML with CSS support! So Tiger now has a nice and very simple HTML editor included.

    TextEdit could probably handle something like 80% of the documents people ever work on now.
  • by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @02:28PM (#12214703) Journal
    I think Apple is poised to make quite an entry into a PVR market in some capacity. I keep looking at Dashboard and think how simple it would be to control your TV, DVD player, iTunes, etc with that. Hm...imagine now training the Speech part of Tiger to work hand-in-hand with the Dashboard components. Oh sweet mother of all things holy...now you're controlling iTunes or your PVR (Mac Mini with Eye TV?) with your voice? Yum...yum I say.

You know, Callahan's is a peaceable bar, but if you ask that dog what his favorite formatter is, and he says "roff! roff!", well, I'll just have to...