Will Mac mini Lead the Charge to Smaller Desktops? 1084
elecngnr writes "Maybe size doesn't matter. ZDNet has a story about how the Mac mini may shift consumers away from the larger tower style desktops to smaller ones. Other computer makers, such as HP, have so far been unsuccessful in marketing small computers to consumers. However, Apple does have a history of leading the charge in paradigm shifts in certain aspects of consumer products (e.g. GUI's, color changes, the iPod, and the list goes on). It is also important to recognize that they have been wrong at times too (e.g. the Cube, the Newton, and the one button mouse). Time will tell which list the Mini will belong to."
Don't get worked up over the word "failure" (Score:4, Informative)
This small form factor could turn out the same way, but I doubt it. Small seems to be the way to go, especially now that upgrades are getting less and less significant to most users (is 4 GHz really going to be better than 3.5?) If you can't make them faster, or if the consumers stop caring whether or not their computer is faster, form factor is a reasonable direction to push research.
Re:eh? (Score:5, Informative)
Now I agree with the argument that maybe Apple should offer a better mouse out of the box, but, well, mice are pretty cheap.
Re:one button mouse a failure? (Score:3, Informative)
They realise it. That's why OS X has 2- and 3- button support out of the box. The availability of cheap high-quality multi-button USB mice from the PC world lets them get away with pretending that the one-button mouse isn't a problem, and not including a mouse with the Mini is another way to dodge the bullet.
wtf? Cube and Newton were groundbreaking successes (Score:2, Informative)
Cubes hold their value better than probably any other Power Mac model - how's that for "wrong"? Nobody I know ever thought of a good explanation for the cancellation of the Cube; it certainly wasn't technical failings - the most likely reason was low margins. The Mini is another low margin product but the engineering is much less ambitious I suspect.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not an Apple guy and even I notice many people like you who enjoy spreading this FUD around. I mean, come on. Hack about it's power or low system specs or anything else, but don't spread FUD like this.
It's more effective to go after real issues and not create un-true ones.
From another site:
I spoke with the product manager for the Mac mini today to clarify a few facts.
1. Yes, it will boot headless, meaning with no display or video device connected, enabling you to have what I like to call an iServe.
2. While it is strongly recommended that you only have an Apple Authorized Service Provider crack it open and install RAM, hard drives, Airport and Bluetooth, it will NOT void your warranty if you do it yourself. As is standard operating procedure, however, anything you break while attempting anything on your own is not Apple's responsibility and will not be covered under warranty. I think that is pretty much common sense.
3. Airport and Bluetooth can, in fact, be added after purchase. AirPort Extreme card and Bluetooth module attach to the Mac mini's motherboard via a special connector and will be sold together as a kit for $129.mac mini insides
4. RAM is the most accessible upgrade once you get the case off. That much is clear from the picture.
5. All upgrades other than RAM are not as accessible, but accessing them won't void your warranty, with list item #2 above in mind.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:5, Informative)
Psst. They have. [apple.com]
Flat panel with built in computer... check.
Wireless capability... check.
Plays music, connects to Internet... check.
Bluetooth Wireless keyboard... check.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:5, Informative)
Let's take Dell for example.
I had a friend worried about performing a RAM upgrade so he decided to call Dell and ask. Turns out, his warranty is only void if he upgrades the motherboard or processor. (I'm asumming the case would have to stay the same too).
When it comes to PC's... most companies understand the case will get cracked. In fact, I usually recommend dusting every six months... do that with the case sealed.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:4, Informative)
Umm.. how about straight from the horse's mouth (er.. keyboard):
http://www.apple.com/ca/macmini/specs.html [apple.com]
Look at footnote number 5 down at the bottom:
Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider.
Re:The One Button Mistake (Score:1, Informative)
That said, replies to each of your points:
1) The design of a one-button mouse *OS* is superior to Windows and Linux. Steve Jobs's point is that with the MacOS, you never *need* that right mouse button. Look through instruction books that describe how to do things under MacOS and under Windows. The Mac instructions are significantly shorter and easier. Plug in a two-button, scroll mouse and it works out of the box. It allows for short-cuts for power-users without relying on that second mouse button.
As soon as Apple includes a mouse with more than one button, instructions on how to do things involve "right-click on [object]". Steve, and Apple, do not want to see that. I tend to agree with them on that.
2) As I said, all of these are simple shortcuts that you do not have to use to use the MacOS. If you are a power-user, simply plug in a nice two-button, scroll mouse. It will work out of the box!
In addition, I think it is wonderful that all the modifier buttons are in the bottom corners of the keyboard. My right hand can sit on the mouse and my left hand can sit on those three buttons (control, option, command) and modify the clicks easily. Would you rather spread them out so that they are hard to find when you need them?
size of Mini vs mini-ITX (Score:4, Informative)
Re:size of Mini vs mini-ITX (Score:3, Informative)
Also, not all SFF PC's run crappy processors. My SN95G5 runs a socket 939 Athlon64 just fine. Top end, not too hot. WAY more powerful than the Mac Mini, to use your terms.
It's not as small, it's _almost_ as stylish (IMHO), but it is powerful, and it is sleek.
The Mac Mini does look fantastic, I'm very tempted to get one and I've been a PC guy up until now - But I really don't think it's groundbreaking.
The "why" is easy... (Score:4, Informative)
I have been looking for YEARS for a legacy-free mini-itx type (SFF) motherboard and have yet to see one.
By legacy-free I mean: no PS/2, no parallel, no VGA, no serial (9-pin or 25-pin). I want USB 2.0, DVI, and gigE. Give it a mini-PCI and/or mini-AGP and I'd be happy.
I've seen Via *announce* a line with just VGA/USB/Ethernet and the rest as headers, but nothing else that fits the bill.
My only "issue" with the mini Mac is the 10/100 Ethernet instead of 10/100/1000. That, however, is what I consider a very minor flaw in what otherwise is my dream machine.
The only other Apple product I owned was the Newton, so it isn't a Mac fan-boy thing.
The mini-itx industry was just too damn hung up on legacy crap for me to ever really be more than just mildly interested in their products.
-Charles
Firewire and USB. (Score:3, Informative)
Now with USB and FireWire (The topic of this post) you can add a USB or FireWire hubs to your system and expand the ability without opening your system and adding new cards. Plus if you unplug one device you don't need to rewire the others. Plus the cost of these external devices are getting close to the same price as internal devices. Not 2 to 3 times the cost like in the old days. So we don't need 10 open PCI Slots anymore because external is much easier.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
That may just not be true anymore. [macosxhints.com] It would make sense if it weren't true, as consumers might not be so quick to buy the SuperDrive option when buying a Mini ("When will I ever have need to burn a DVD?"), but then find out later down the line how ridiculously easy it is on a Mac and decided to go get one. It wouldn't surprise me, Apple has so very totally gotten everything right with this box, such a minor detail (and major forward-thinking) wouldn't be out of the question.
On a lighter note, while browsing through CompUOverpay yesterday, I finally got to meet a Mini "in person". Holy crap! I'd seen the pics, but it really and totally doesn't hit you how small this thing is untill you hold one in your hand (singular!)
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:5, Informative)
That's an important distinction. Once you've installed the memory, that memory is not covered by the Apple warranty, and if you break the mini while installing it you can void the mini's warranty. But let's say you install your own 1GB DIMM and all goes swimmingly well. Then, a couple of months later, the hard drive dies.
That hard drive repair is covered by Apple's warranty. They have to - there's a handy law that says so. But if the DIMM you installed is causing the Mac to crash, well, you better hope your RAM provider gave you a warranty for the DIMM - because Apple won't replace it (duh).
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:4, Informative)
They don't work with iDVD 04, but the Mac mini ships with iDVD 05 which does support external writers (and even if you find one that it won't work with directly, iDVD 05 can now create a disk image which you can then burn using whatever software you want).
Yaz.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
You can still get the hardware, and if you like to tinker, get it doing most of what you ask. Search for "3com audrey". They're cheap, and apart from having a mouse (touch-screen instead), can do everything you mention.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
Not a FLAW. Just DIFFERENT (Score:4, Informative)
No, it is not a flaw. It is built into the design of the OS and to the interface guidelines from day one. What you may not realize is that everything that is accessible from a right click contextual menu on OS X apps is (or should be in the case of 3rd parties) completely accessible by some other method that does not require a multi-button mouse. The menu is optional for those that get used to using control-click often (and it's just control--nothing else!) or who choose to have a multi-button mouse.
This is not the case for Windows or X11. For those of us that do use those systems regularly (myself included), a multi-button mouse make more sense because we've been forced to use it to access complete functionality of applications. The mind-share of the one-button mouse users are even smaller than those of us devoted to OS X, but the design of that mouse and it's use in OS X is most definitely not "flawed". Just different. Maybe too different these days, but there you go...
I get along fine with my PB when I don't have the space to attach an extra mouse. The thing that bugs me more than having to use control is the fact that the function key is where my finger wants control to be, but that's a problem with many more laptops than just Apple's.
Re:Mini Macs are a good thing... (Score:2, Informative)
The mouse of your choice can likely be found for around $20
So you're either quite petty, or out of reasons to complain.
Re:One button mice... (Score:2, Informative)
You've brought attention to another sophisticated program that thought long and hard and decided to break with the Apple Human Interface Guidelines wrt mice. I'm sure they didn't take this decision lightly and that it greatly improves the usability of their program. However, this is not a reason to include multi-button mice by default. Imagine the untold number of apps that would start shunting off functionality onto those other buttons rather than implement it in a clearer manner. The consistency of functionality across Mac applications that I hold in the highest regard would be severely compromised if I had to click three ways on ever UI element in new programs to figure out just what a program does. I believe that programs which require multi-button mice should be the exception and not the rule.
OTOH, I can control click with one hand very easily on my PB. If your gf's hands are too small to do even that, maybe Sticky Keys would help her out. I find them invaluable when I have to use the computer single-handed ;-D They can be turned on in System Preferences - Universal Access - Keyboard. With a PB, there is very little reason for your hands to be further than three inches from the keyboard at all times.
The one thing the Mac mouse is really missing is a scroll wheel. I admit that I do have a 2-button scroll wheel mouse on my desktop. But I rarely use the right button. I probably shift click or command click just as often or more than I need to right [control] click. Perhaps I should just get a five button mouse to cover those other types of clicks... Nah- I just want my scroll wheel! Check out SideTrack that another poster mentioned. It's the reason I feel that my PB with the trackpad and button right there is in many ways better than my keyboard and separate two-button scroll wheel mouse. They're so close that I can't help but always have my fingers in proper position to do EVERYTHING.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:4, Informative)
The Mac service guide specifically says that a dealer who opens a mac mini should use a 1.5 inch beveled putty knive (there's even an apple part number for it - 922-6761). Page two of that guide is how to sharpen the edges of a standard putty knife for this purpose.
So if you break a clip (assuming that they're that flimsy) by performing the same procedure that a dealer would, how are they going to tell? You can just say the last dealer did it... not that they'd ask.
Re:Cube is still popular (Score:1, Informative)
things that were never produced in huge numbers can become quite valuable after they are discontinued.
The 9200 is fine for most games (Score:4, Informative)
The Mac mini would handle most gaming (ESPECIALLY at TV or HDTV resolutions) just fine.
Re:Economies of scale will no doubt help (Score:4, Informative)
While I agree with most of your post, this is incorrect. The iMac G5s use standard 184-pin DDR DIMMs.
The G4's might've used SO-DIMMs, but I haven't had one open.
Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... (Score:3, Informative)
The radeon 9200 chip they have is ok for playing basic mpg's or tetris but that's about it.
Can you point out one shipping game for the mac that the mac mini does not meet the requirements for? I mean UT2004, WOW, Warcraft3, Neverwinter Nights, Halo, etc. all seem to have minimum requirements below its specs. I think Doom3 requires another .2 GHz of processor power, but it has not shipped yet as far as I know. Complaining that a shipping system has sub-par graphics for gaming when it will play any current game is a little premature. At least wait till there is a game it won't play, OK?
*no* mac's have upgradable sound.
USB. USB sound is pretty popular right now both among audio professionals and amateurs. There is a ton of USB audio gear available. Get a clue.
Re:It wasn't just form factor for me (Score:2, Informative)
And i guess thats why you posted as an AC. Do you work for Dell? Have you bothered to seen what comes standard on the Mini vs anything dell offers?
There is a world of difference in engineering, features, applications and perforance between Apple and Dell or Apple and any X86 offering.
Re:Support (Score:2, Informative)
I have had many Macs (and still do as a friend recently pointed out recently I have 4 in my closet and 3 'in use'). I bought a Titanium Powerbook 2 years ago and last fall the screen went out. I had a live tech on the phone within 5 minutes on a thursday, a shipping box arrived friday morning, I shipped it saturday morning and it arrived back the following tuesday moring with a new display.
I used that powerbook so much (it replaced my old 8500 desktop tower) the keys started cracking (I slam keys, such as the shift and return keys pretty hard - big, clumbsy hands) and the print started coming off some of the keys last summer. Same deal - Live tech within minutes and the replacement keyboard arrived the next morning(!)
My experiences with Apple tech support have been few, but have almost always very good and fast.
Re:Mac has a history of leading by 6 to 12 months. (Score:3, Informative)
Steve Jobs obviously has good taste in sensing trends and managing to bring them to market just a little more quickly than others. You could make a list of things that were more or less in the air, that the Mac wasn't first to offer, but successfully offered on a large scale six to twelve months ahead of the PC world.
You could also make a list of stupid nonstandard things the Macintosh has introduced which increased the cost of the system and made it much more proprietary:
--NuBus expansion slots (which followed from 1988 onto early PowerPC models)
--Apple AAUI transceiver plug for Ethernet
--The ADC video connector
--MiniVGA ports
Most of these were ultimately retarded ideas with no basis other than milking Macintosh users with pricey addons. With your "innovation" you also get a lot of suspicious design choices.
SCSI interface
As a side note, if you read some of the backstory on the development of the Macintosh, Jobs was very much against the idea of a SCSI interface or for that matter, any expansion at all. That's why the introduction of a hard disk expandable Macintosh was delayed until the Mac Plus.