Better Business Bureau Targets Apple's G5 Ads 595
deathazre writes "The Council of Better Business Bureaus has suggested Apple Computer withdraw its claims of the world's fastest, and first 64-bit, PC after a complaint by Dell. However, even having one of their ads banned in the U.K. didn't stop them here in the States."
Am I remembering the ad wrong? (Score:5, Funny)
Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
Where'd I put my darn bong?
Oh, here it is, hidden behind my G5.
Hey, when did I get a G5?
Who am I, again?
Re:Am I remembering the ad wrong? (Score:5, Informative)
The BBB is nothing but a protection racket for businesses that traditionally garner lots of complaints (e.g. door-to-door sales, home improvement, predatory lending) to avoid escalation of a large number of complaints to people who would actually take some enforcement action.
The BBB is esentially useless after the fact if you've been screwed, but I personally check any local tradesman, etc. If I see a "blemish," knowing how easy they are to avoid, I do no business with that company. It's the same kind of due diligence as checking Google for references to a mail order company before you place an order.
Re:Am I remembering the ad wrong? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know this because I had to file a complaint against a local company. They were pretty upset to have any mark on the BBB site.
Re:Am I remembering the ad wrong? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've filed several Better Business Bureau complaints, including one against a company in the North Carolina (against Ubi Soft, Inc). I've never seen the BBB change the complaint statistics as a result of my complaints. Of the three times I've gone through the complaint process I have never received any satisfaction from the companies involved and the BBB has not added my complaint to the total complaints against the companies.
The BBB is a paper tiger that does little more than to allow people to feel like they are complaining to someone who can make a difference. The fact is that the BBB is not for the consumer, it is an organization which is paid by companies in order for them to get a feel-good BBB logo to plaster around and to serve as a buffer between themselves and the public.
If you have a problem with a company go to the Federal Trade Commission or your State Attorney General. They are much more likely to be able to give you some serious assistance in getting satisfaction from an abusive company.
NO Individual's Complaints (Score:3, Informative)
And again...
Re:NO Individual's Complaints (Score:4, Informative)
Re:NO Individual's Complaints (Score:4, Interesting)
Real math is more than just adds and multiplies. Try doing vector operations, or multiple input instructions, or any other number of complex operations. THIS is where the CPUs different.
Also, notice that most DSPs (and the G4/5s) have multiply and add instructions, that take one clock cycle, because that operation occurs so frequently in DSP. That's certainly not in base x86, and I'm not sure if it is or is not in any of the SSE instructions.
Also, your mention of compilers is telling. It takes 5 or 10 years for compilers to really mature on any given architecture. So when we're talking about processors that are only a year or two old, compilers can make a HUGE difference.
Not to mention all the scheduling of operations that takes place on the CPU, and the differences in how many parallel things they can do.
Just because the most efficient multiplier circuit may be well known doesn't mean there aren't still tradeoffs in CPU design.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Old news (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Old news (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm. [marketwatch.com]
While Apple's iPod sales remain strong -- the company sold 730,000 iPods in its last quarter and had pre-release orders for 100,000 iPod mini music players -- Bachman said the company's G5 sales could turn out to be disappointing for the second quarter in a row.
For its fiscal first quarter, which ended Dec. 27, Apple shipped 206,000 G5 computers, short of many analysts' estimates. Bachman has estimated that Apple would ship 195,000 G5s in its current quarter.
Sounds like it didn't work to me. They hardly 'made out' on that one.
no pain...no gain (Score:5, Insightful)
"Any publicity is good and good publicity is even better"
This news is just more publicity...and they didn't have to pay a dime to get it in front of you today. I'd call that making out
Re:no pain...no gain (Score:4, Insightful)
Repeating something a million times doesn't make it true!
Certain publicity is 100% BAD. Like Ford ignition switches busting into flames.
There's no positive angle to that. Even if you didn't know who Ford was, is that news going to make you want to do business with them? Are you going to think, "Gee, I'd like a car that might randomly burst into flames. I should go check out my nearest Ford dealership!"
Re:no pain...no gain (Score:5, Funny)
Ford: A car so hot it BURNS.
Ford: Keeping your hands warm when starting the car in the winter.
Ford: At least we fixed the tire problem!
Ford: Because there is such a thing as too safe.
Ford: Because we all love pyrotechnic shows.
It's called spin baby. It's only bad because they haven't thought of a good spin yet.
Marketing is complex (Score:5, Interesting)
Trying to see whether an ad campaign has succeeded or failed based on the number of sales versus what was predicted in a given quarter is kind of like trying to infer causal effects for a graph showing correlation between two independently measured variables with no other data--a big mistake.
Whether an ad succeeds or fails often cannot be measured based on sales in a fluctuating economy with a variable product interest. The critical question is would they have sold 206k G5 computers if they had not run the ad campaign? There is also the corollary question of would they could have sold more with a different ad campaign?
The first of these questions is nontrivial to answer and requires good, well researched data on why your customers are buying the product. Apple may have that data--you most certainly do not. The latter is almost impossible to infer even with good data on people's purchasing.
Re:Marketing is complex (Score:3, Funny)
In other news. Using a cellphone out of range is kind of like using an undirected radio transmitter somewhere such that the broadcast power over the distance r cubed is less then what's needed to detect the signal a
Re:Old news (Score:5, Funny)
G5 Jam from wiebe tech (Score:5, Informative)
They are now working to get 2 terabytes of IS.
Dell?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh right, silly me!
But seriously, if Dells are faster, and cheaper...why didn't Va Tech use those instead? They didn't get a deal from Apple you know...they bought them all right through the online Apple store.
I'm not trying to confront you or anything, I honestly don't know. I hear claims of faster and fastest all the time from people, but when it comes down to people using them in applications, it kinda goes out the window.
So why didn't VA tech use Dells or simular?
Re:Dell?? (Score:3, Interesting)
But they will be in 9 months or a year.
At that point G5s will scream, but until then they wont.
I think VA Tech is banking on a big performance increase then.
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Insightful)
what we want, and are starting to get, is 64 bit applications that run on these 64 bit platforms... the OS is just the host, not the workhorse.
Re:Dell?? (Score:3, Interesting)
While Apple is happy that their server market is doing great, a big part of what they do has been the workstation and the entry level/academic Imac crowds. Apple is showing these ads to convert mind share with these people and that is fine. I am not saying that everyone else ISN'T doing the same kind of marketing grey messages, just that I always liked
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason for this is the PPC architechture doesn't get any of the boosts such as increased register availablity that x86 does with x86-64 by going 64 bit. The only difference is it can address a larger data set. Unless you're doing something which directly benefits from 64 bitness on a PPC CPU, you'll be better off with a 32 bit binary.
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Informative)
Some readers might interpret this as meaning that 64-bit pointers are the only benefits of a 64-bit CPU. I'd like to point out the advantages of single-instruction (u_)int64_t operations.
There are a bunch of algorithms that will run twice as fast on 64-bit CPUs and 32-bit CPUs. String comparisons where the string length is known a priori (as in Java or Pascal strings) can be handled 8 bytes at a time rather than 4 at a time. There are also some tricks that can be done with null-terminated strings, but these Multi-precission arithmatic and memory comying routines also benifit greatly from 8 byte words.
On 64-bit systems, you could also do things like re-writing the O'caml virtual machine so that it internally uses 63-bit integers and doesn't box 32-bit integers.
Re:Dell?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dell?? (Score:3, Informative)
Both were deemed satisfactory, the decision hinged on other factors.
That's according to insiders from VA Tech IT, at least.
Re:Dell?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple had the claim to fame for a few months fair and square. They don't run those commercials anymore anyway...and again why does Dell care...they don't sell AMD chips either!!!
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dell?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Informative)
And yet, VT found that the G5 desktop had better price/performance at standard educational prices than any of the offerings from the PC vendors they were talking to at the same time (HP, Intel, and AMD).
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Informative)
From How Virginia Tech built a supercomputer [vt.edu]:
"Intel, HP, IBM, and AMD were all trying to come up with ways to work with us," says Lockhart."But the prices were out of reach and IBM's 970 chip would not be available in time to allow the new Virginia Tech cluster to be ranked."
From Confessions of the World's Largest Switcher [macdevcenter.com]:
He looked at various architecture options and was in the process of buying Dells when the deal fell through. He also worked with IBM and AMD and couldn't get the price to match. The budgets were coming in at $9 to $12 million dollars.
When Dell built a similar cluster for more than half the price ($3M vs. $5.2M for VT's), they got a cluster with less than 1/4 of the performance.
Of course, this "performance" is measured by a benchmark, and all benchmarks lie, and single-computer desktop usage doesn't look like large-scale cluster usage, but the fact is, this was not a matter of somebody deciding to buy Apple and blindly throwing a bunch of cash at it. The Apple offering had better price/performance for their needs.
Re:Dell?? (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean less time between breakdowns, right? Dell is the Wal-Mart of computers. For hard day-to-day work, I would seriously prefer something from Apple or Sun before Dell.
Also, as far as benchmarking goes, P4/Xeon score well in integer performance, but comparatively are middle-of-the-pack in FP performance. So, depending on how the statistics are manipulated, everyone is a winner.
selective truth in advertising (Score:5, Funny)
Re:selective truth in advertising (Score:4, Funny)
At the very least Intel gave the blue men group a job for a while.
Re:selective truth in advertising (Score:5, Interesting)
"Intel Centrino Lets You Unwire Your Life. Now you can enjoy a truly mobile lifestyle!"
Unless Intel advocates wardriving, I don't see how it's truly mobile. This is far more deceptive to me than G5 ads, which were just designed to let people know that Apple isn't behind times with its processor speed anymore, albeit the wording was amplified to drive the point home.
Re:selective truth in advertising (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's one of those (Score:3, Interesting)
Where else? (Score:5, Funny)
Plausable Ambiguity (Score:5, Insightful)
Fastest selling? TRUE!
Fastest falling? Maybe (Looks aerodynamic...)
Fastest obsolescence?
Fastest at one particular kind of mathematical operation?
Fastest mobo latency?
Fastest design and fab process?
Fastest repairs? (Easy access panel...)
Heh. Who the hells knows what any ads are REALLY about these days. Lies, Damn Lies, and Advertising. I'm not a Mac-hater, writing this from my lovely 12" iBook G4.
Re:Plausable Ambiguity (Score:5, Insightful)
Depreciation.
I could buy a G5 and a fully loaded PC for the same amount today, and try to sell them both in 3 months. The PC would be nowhere near the original purchase price.
Does anyone ever actually believe advertisers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does anyone ever actually believe advertisers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider a race between a top fuel dragster, a 1960s Chevy Chevelle SS, a Honda Civic SI, and a 4x4 Nissan pickup. In a straight 1/4 mile drag race, the top fuel dragster would beat the rest easily. However, if the race were longer than 2 or 3 miles or had sharp curves, the dragster would probably fall apart or crash. In that race, the Chevelle would win. In a thousand-mile road race the Civic would stand a better chance, because it can cruise almost as fast as the Chevelle, but gets 30 miles to the gallon instead of the Chevelle's 7. Depending on how long gas-station stops take, the Honda may have an edge. In any sort of off-road race, the 4x4 pickup would be the only vehicle to finish. Which one is "the fastest"?
Re:Does anyone ever actually believe advertisers? (Score:5, Funny)
The correct answer is A, the dragster. The dragster is the fastest because it looks the fastest.
Re:Does anyone ever actually believe advertisers? (Score:3, Informative)
"Real Angus Beef" means that the cow was more than 50% black in color. It tells you NOTHING about the quality of the meat. (Not to say that they're not using good beef in their Six Dollar Burger...just watch out when you go to the grocery store)
Angus's Gold and Silver labels (or maybe it's platinum and titanium...whatever) are excellent beef. But "Certified Angus" alone doesn't say anything about quality. You'll be much better off looking for USDA Prime beef, prefera
Re:Does anyone ever actually believe advertisers? (Score:3)
Not necessarily. Many scientific-oriented processors would suck for home use, and vice versa. There are many different kinds of tasks that many different processors excel at.
Apple's ads probably should have said something like "The first and fastest 64-bit desktop PC processor" (which I think is true, or was at the time of the ad - the other 64-bit procs I've seen were server-oriented, until AMD's 64-bi
What's so special about speed? (Score:3, Interesting)
Case in point: I didn't see Apple (or anyone else) complaining that Dell was lying in ads where they implied that the night call center workers were actually in the US.
And Dell directly implies in their ads that if you're running Unix there are all sorts of negative things that will happen to you that are pretty much not true.
Whatever. The BBB is just another piece of the marketing machine I guess.
Re:What's so special about speed? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, speed is a simple, measureable and quantifiable concept.
Speed in computers is not "simple" and it is not easily quantifiable. Case in point, take the Earth Simulator--rated as the fastest computer in the world right now on the Top500. Any computer scientists could write a program where it would perform painfully slowly compared to a computer with a processor from years ago simply because of how it works and the way it is designed: lots of processors that are good at one and only one thing--vector processing.
"Speed" with computer begs the fundamental question of "speed at what? I don't think intel's chips offer an FMADD instruction, for instance, which is part of the reason why the G5 is so impressive--it can field two of them per clock cycle. At integer based DSP the G5 is not going to be nearly as impressive--this isn't exactly a first past the post kind of thing
I know, there wasn't enough FUD! (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple's current stance: Our G5's are damn fast, faster than Wintel stuff, and we'll stand by that claim.
Average Consumer: Really? Wow.
Dell: Crap.
Apple's new stance: Our G5's have multi-threaded double buffered optimized 256 bit parallel pipelined 64 bit x-streaming architecture!
Average consumer:
Dell: much better.
Re:I know, there wasn't enough FUD! (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel's "wireless everywhere" ads don't mention the need for a base station, not the likelyhood that such a station won't be found on a freaking mountain for that matter, despite what some of the ads imply.
Who really cares about speed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now a business is more likely to consider a fast computer if it increases productivity, but then a business is more likely to be clued up about hardware and not be believing the claims of an advert.
Ultimately the selection of a computer will be based on if it can do what you want for the right price, there are certain pieces of software that aren't available for non-Windows systems and so speed counts for nothing if you need that software.
There's a first.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should Dell care? (Score:5, Interesting)
Fact or opinion? (Score:4, Insightful)
Given this, I tend to consider speed to be opinion rather than factual information. The fact that a factoid looks like a fact, doesn't make it one. Because of this, I don't see it as a great crime to make semi-substantiated claims iabout speed in the advertising.
Better Business Bureaux? (Score:5, Funny)
And these the same bunch of no-hopers that gave SCO a clean bill of health? Why are we even taking any notice of what they have to say?
What apple should do... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd be the first to admit that Apple was really lagging behind with the G4, but the G5 changed all that. Especcially since, come summer, I'll be able to buy a Dual 3 GHz (crosses fingers).
Actually, I'm waiting for a G5 Powerbook. No suprise there, but holy crap that'd be fast. (And hot...and big...but fast.)
Fastest FOR WHAT? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want business performance, a multi-processor Opteron trumps them all.
If you want super fast video and audio encoding, a dual Xeon with hyperthreading will probably kill all of these.
If you want the fastest mobile processor with good battery life, Centrino is the way to go.
If you want the fastest computing cluster, you'd probably have to go with UVA's Mac cluster.
All of the above are probably temporarily in those positions and subject to considerable debate. I hate these "fastest computer ever" statements. Computing is far too dynamic and varied to put all-encompassing labels on. No one platform is ideally suited for all tasks. You make compromises and go from there.
Re:Fastest FOR WHAT? (Score:4, Insightful)
Then why did VT actually go through the trouble of pricing out a cluster and find that G5s had the best price/performance? It's fun to speculate and all, but they actually priced it out and in reality the G5 systems had better price/performance.
Or were you referring to single-CPU performance?
>If you want the fastest computing cluster, you'd probably have to go with UVA's Mac cluster.
I think you meant VT. VT and UVA are arch-rivals.
Re:Fastest FOR WHAT? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fastest FOR WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
Amazing (Score:3, Insightful)
It's pretty obvious that Apple's "fastest computer" claims aren't true and were intended to mislead consumers (even the most generous of readings would admit that they were valid for a very, very limited subset of carefully chosen tests for about a month, far less time than the compaign ran for, and only applied to single-processor computers). There may not be all that much damage caused (heck, the net effect may be positive), but there's little doubt in my mind that Apple was trying to implant fairly bogus information in people's heads.
The way I see it, even if someone's taking on Microsoft and we want them very much to do well, holding them to a lower standard of integrity (or anything else) is ultimately a losing strategy. Those people will ultimately take advantage of that leeway, and end up producing a worse product/service. If Red Hat puts out a crummy program or makes a decision that negatively impacts me, I will happily complain vocally and publically. Apple deserves to be held to no lesser of a standard.
Re:Amazing (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, that is *obviously* not true.
Else the ads wouldn't be an issue.
Else no one would blink an eye.
Like the Microsoft ads where the kid starts flying. OBVIOUSLY not true.
These ads, if OBVIOUSLY untrue, as you claim, then shouldn't be a problem.
The real problem here, and why Dell is complaining, is that when they were released, they were VERY true.
It was the most powerful 64bit computer per dollar; that is why Virginia Tech chose the G5 over all other competitors (including Dell) for their supercomputer. No one was cheaper. No one was more powerful.
Today? No, not THE most powerful, nor the cheapest, offered by an OEM.
Re:Amazing (Score:3, Funny)
What Would Dell Claim?
I'm suing Dell (Score:5, Funny)
Dell Dude's new quote is...! (Score:3, Funny)
more advertising goofyness (Score:5, Funny)
These companies have gone completely nuts.
And Microsoft..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple makes excellent computers.
Looks like Dell has their own problems... (Score:4, Interesting)
Tim
Pretty Funny to Me. (Score:5, Insightful)
As others have pointed out there have been just as many other biased, false, and outright ridiculus claims such as faster inernet thanks to a processor, dancing flourescant colored clean room suits, and all sorts of stuff.
yet intel's marketing arm, er, Dell decides they need to file a complaint with the BBB over it and they hold the #1 spot for desktops?
Things that make you go hmmm.
Pot/Kettle (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sure that's it. That concern for the consumers' well-being would be why Dell advertises the Celeron 2.4GHz as only suitable for word processing and e-mail. ``Ooh, ma'am, if you're going to be surfing the 'web, you're going to need top-notch power for that kinda number-crunching!''
It might be fast, but is it 64-bit? (Score:5, Informative)
For my code, it's faster clock-for clock than a Xeon, and (usually) slower clock-for-clock than an opteron. Benchmarks can be made to say just about anything, but I bet the G5 is the fastest thing around for some people running their software.
To date, Apple has not released a 64-bit OS for the G5, and not only has not announced any intention to do so, but simply avoids admitting this to be the case. Think what you like, but even if you think "64-bit" doesn't mean "a single application can access more than 4 GB of RAM", you certainly have to be perplexed by the sense in which Apple claims to have "broken the 4 GB barrier", given that their latest OS provides your app access to the RAM just the way an Intel-based 32-bit system can.
Since there is not 64-bit OS for this machine (although Linux is very close), I cannot prove that my G5 has 64-bit hardware, tho I guess I believe it.
I will now accept my troll-mod, since I have posted this atrocity in an apple.stlashdot.org story.
US Needs More Strict Advertising Laws (Score:3, Interesting)
We should disallow companies from advertising based on knowingly bogus research (read: research sponsored by THAT company), and force them to stick to the facts. There should be penalties for lying to people in order to sell a product. I also think political campaigns should be held most strictly to this policy.
Too many advertisements simply say "use X, and the Y in your life will become that much better!" or "X is the BEST Z product--EVER!" with absolutely no evidence. It's ridiculous.
And yet Americans don't have a problem with it. They're either too used to being lied to or just don't care. It has to stop. If the G5 isn't the first/fastest 64 bit CPU, well, Apple shouldn't be allowed to say that it is. Isn't there a law against lying to people for money? Don't they call that a SCAM?
It's going to get worse... (Score:5, Funny)
Better Bureau steps in . . . why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know about you but is there bigger fish to fry out there when it comes to truth in advertising. If the BB wants to make a statement, why not go after all those diet pill advertisers who claim to help you lose wieght in 30 days without diet or exercise. Or make thousands of dollars working from home in 30 days. To my knowledge, the BB said nothing when movie studios put out raving reviews of their movie by non-existent movie critics.
Micheal Dell's Revenge (Score:4, Interesting)
He's also mad becuase HP went with Apple and not them and now HP will have it's own branded iPod.
The Truth Spoken Boldly (Score:3, Insightful)
If Apple is dishonest, they should not be defended. You're not defending Apple, you're defending lying. If you are an Apple Zealot, you're not unbiased. Take a step back, find someone who is and let them look at the facts without your propaganda slipping in. If you're an Apple zealot, you're not acting in the best interests of society (or even yourself), you're acting in the best interests of Apple. The Better Business Bureau IS unbiased. If Microsoft makes claims like this, they will be censured as well. Overall, the system works. You have no problem when our enemies are caught and punished, but when we are caught and punished, we attack the system. That's what's happening here.
Everybody here is trying to defend Apple based on technicalities: they said "desktop", not "workstation"; other people lie too; the BBB is a corporate shill; this wouldn't happen if Clinton was in office; there's an anti-Apple conspiracy!
No matter how much you love Apple Corporation and want to promote their products, it is unethical and irresponsible to break the rules our society is based on. If you actively promote false advertising for your own selfish interests now, you have NO RIGHT to complain about others doing the same thing. What this means is that everybody will race to be the most dishonest, so that the right to complain about others' dishonesty will not matter, because you gain more from your dishonesty than you lose by allowing others' dishonesty. This is NOT where we want society to go.
If others are dishonest, call the BBB, don't join them in dishonesty. Apple loves their PR. They spend nearly as much on ads and promotions as on R&D. Lying should hurt their reputation. They should be punished for deceit. But there are people here acting as damage control to help Apple lie without being hurt by it. This is evil.
Dell are the good guys here. Apple is often right on the edge of deception with their ads; this time they went a bit too far and had their wrists slapped for it. I don't care about Dell computers, but I care about honesty in advertising. If Apple noticed Dell blatantly lying and called the BBB, we'd claim it as another example of Apple's glorious belief in truth and goodness. Because that's what we choose to believe. But the sword cuts both ways. It has to. If Apple lies, they should face consequences, just as Dell should when they lie. Someone's mom will see these ads and possibly get scammed into buying the wrong computer based on a lie. That's not good. Apple will lose in the long run, and the customer will lose as well. The best customer service I've ever seen is when an Apple sales guy told me to buy Windows XP because a Mac wouldn't work as well for what I wanted it to do. He was right, and he was honest. And it made me love Apple because they gave a damn about their customers and didn't want to screw me over just to make a quick sale. There are people on this board without that ethic; who cannot see the long-term problem of millions of angry customers who feel they've been lied to, badmouthing Apple to 20 people each and costing Apple many potential future sales. If the Apple guy had pushed me into the wrong solution just because he'd make a commission, I wouldn't have gone on to buy a half-dozen Macs, iPod, software, etc. and helping out on forums doing technical support for Mac newbies. Apple would have lost ME by lying.
And because they're lying now, they're losing someone else. Someone who cares about the truth is the best salesman you can have on your side. He will push you to be the best you can be when y
Re:The Truth Spoken Boldly (Score:4, Insightful)
Workstation v. PC (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell claims that the term PC can apply to a workstation as well, rather than simply being used (as in the Apple add) to indicate a personal computer.
I never hear the word PC and think workstation, so I don't find Apple's ads misleading.
It's like a color printer add from a couple of years ago that said, "somewhere between black and white is silver, which is just one of the colors between the colors that the color printer can print." Note that they never claim they can print silver, just that it's between two colors they CAN print. Misleading? Not if you actually pay attention to what they're saying.
That's what marketing is all about.
Is this anything like... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe someone should "act on behalf of consumers" to notify them of these "inaccuracies".
Fastest, eh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is a 3 GHz P4 with 4 MB RAM faster than a 1.6 GHz G5 with 16 GB RAM? Not likely. So it's not [only] the clock frequency of the CPU that matters.
A fast computer is, IMHO, one which allows me to perform a certain task in a short time. Think about it - isn't this what _really_ matters? Can I write my essays in a shorter time on a 2 GHz G5 than an old iMac? Not really.
Comparing Macs and Windows machines, I'd say Macs have always been faster, and will likely be for quite some time. Since the G5 is the fastest Mac, I'd say it's the fastest computer.
My two cents.
So it's settled then... (Score:3, Insightful)
The "world's fastest" thing is just marketing hype. Who can't see that? It may or may not be true, but who really cares one way or the other? I never have. Is it really so hard to figure that out? Has there been a rash of people rushing out to get G5s only to find out they were sorely duped? This is such a non-issue.
Clearly, Dell is run by a bunch of whiners who would rather gripe and complain than come up with their own attention-grabbing ad campaigns. And it's so nice to see CNet letting themselves be used as Dell's little bitch--no surprise there given CNet's notorious history of Apple bashing.
I'd love to see how many folks at CNet have Dell and/or Microsoft stock. That would probably explain a few things.
nitpicking (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not especially vexed by Dell's move, Apple's claim is dubious, although I personally think they make their point: they've got the fastest personal computer you can buy off the shelve. OK, maybe not anymore, next month maybe again, etc etc, who cares, they still make the most pleasing computer afaic, and I don't mind it being fast.
I am however surprised America reacts to this type of hyperbole. Your presidents get elected on this, all the goods you buy are sold on this, your news is full of it
Me, I'm still waiting for the "I can't believe it's not Windows" campaign for Linux
Re:Here I am with my Alpha (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Here I am with my Alpha (Score:3, Insightful)
Looking at the rest of this thread I have to say that the designation you give a machine should be based on the appication, not what the boneheads who market the OS call it.
PC (as in PERSONAL COMPUTER): You run home user type stuff: games, web browsing, e-mail, music and video, word processing
Workstation: You run business software (ugh) and productivity applications: web, e-mail, office suite, field specific appli
Re:What about... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:3, Interesting)
That is if you believe nVidia's claim that the Xbox runs at 80 gigaflops.
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple has long shelved the ad campaign though.
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:5, Funny)
*Looks at DEC Alpha in corner running NT*
*Looks at UltraSparc running Linux in other corner*
*Looks at reciept for both of them*
So where can I get a G5 for 300 dollars. I could use the upgrade
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:4)
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely not! Would you ask Porsche to fight for market share with Honda and use cheap, generic components? After all, a car is a car.
The 2% are buying Apple for flawless quality and design and paying good money for that. This kind of reputation is hard to build and easy to lose.
Re:I have an easy test. (Score:4, Informative)
True for:
- RAM
- HD
Sort-of true for:
- video cards (different BIOS, but same otherwise AFAIK)
- optical drives (different firmware in some cases, special supplier agreements in some cases)
False for:
- CPU
- Mobo
- I/O chips (many of them are Apple ASICs)
- Power supply
- LCD screens (if applicable)
- Mouse & Keyboard
- Case
Apparently you've never ever looked inside a Mac before, or you'd know this. A G5 desktop is not an Opteron machine with a Gigabyte mobo and Antec power supply in a generic white-box case with an off-the-shelf Logitech KB and mouse, or something like that. A Powerbook is not a Dell Latitude with a different badge on it.
>Apple uses the same "cheap, generic components" and charges you more for them.
I guess cheap is a matter of opinion, but hardly generic. Take a Mac apart sometime. The stuff has brand names on it. Sony, IBM, ATI, Matsushita, Apple, etc. etc.
Re:Apple is the WORST when it comes to lying (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:BBB = SCAM (Score:3, Insightful)
I regard the display of a BBB plaque in a place of business as a warning label similar to the Trust-E seal.
Re:BBB should mind their B (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apple Manipulating the Results (Score:5, Informative)
Mod idiot child down (Score:3, Informative)
Slashdot | Apple Hardware VP Defends Benchmarks [slashdot.org]
spl is an idiot and known Mac community troll. Proof for the idiot part can be found here [haxial.net].
Oh, and here [luxology.net] is what Luxology had to say benchmarkwise ...
Re:Sun? SGI? Dec? 64 bit? Workstation? (Score:4, Informative)