Ultimate Automotive Computer Installation 294
ErnstKompressor writes "I came across a story detailing an awesome car mod out of the Czech Republic. The author undertook what must be the most impressive exercise in computer integration I have ever seen, installing an extensive Mac system with custom Cocoa software controlling nearly every aspect of a 1993 Tatra 613. On-board systems monitoring, navigation, entertainment, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, plus much more, are all rolled into a tight, extensible, package. Check it out."
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A Czech site? (Score:2)
Of course, you can integrate lots of hardware with those!
Why didn't I think of it myself?
Re:A Czech site? (Score:2)
First, what a strange looking car. I like boxy looking cars, but there seems to be something disproportional about this one. I'm not sure I can put my finger on it.
Secondly, with all of the technology and money put inot this car, what's up with the car cell phone from the 80's? Where's the bluetooth integrated wireless mumbo jumbo?
Or is that cell phone modded to dispense Pez or joints or Jolt? That'd be cool...
I wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
On the "bright side", however, I can purchase a Toyota Prius and get a lot of the same functionality without all the work (and with 60+ miles per gallon)... of course, then I can't brag I have a Mac in my car and can't add things to it... but you get the picture.
Re:I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
When he started thinking about doing it, it became over-kill.
It's a hobby (very cool). Hobbies don't have to be practical or usefull.
Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=93970
"First I wanted to completely seal the motherboard case, but later I found this was not really a good idea, particularly due to the changes in temperature and the air volume inside the case. To fix this, I have installed two Gore-Tex valves on the case. These valves are used in automotive industry to allow air circulation in the headlight units while keeping the water on the outside."
"All the custom software is written in Cocoa. The main application was designed and written by Ondra Eada, I have used this opportunity to learn Objective C from him and later written most of the plug-ins."
As you can seen, not another guy trying to get on slashdot, from the hacks, he is quite smarter than the average slashdot reader.
Re:I wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
What I really liked about the article that there was no justification for using a Mac. Seems like he is simply a fan who never even considered using anything else. That should set an example for many past and future flamewars on Slashdot.
Re:I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
Too true, Yeah, i've got a custom, stock looking TV and DVD in my truck [kotich.com](Please be gentle with my server, also, the DVD player has been upgraded and moved, that part was cheesy
-matt
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Informative)
The per capita GNP of the Czech Republic is about US$15,000. It is NOT a third world country, no matter how much anyone who has experienced their public water system may try to tell you. The Czech economy is rather elitist, especially now that Vaclav Klaus is running the show--he has stated openly that he thinks that maybe ten percent of the population should have a tertiary education. Thus, if you are an engineer, you're probably doing fine by American standards. You
Re:I wonder (Score:2)
Re:I wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I wonder (Score:2)
Seeing as this is a Russian car, I was hoping I had some witty In Soviet Russia joke handy... but I dont. Anyhow, This car was a creme de la creme top of the line luxury automobile. Modding a car is only worth it if (1) the mods are tasteful (i.e. not rice-boy) and (2) if the car is worth it. Is it worth it to spend $5000 modifying a '94 Honda Civic that's only worth $3k? No. Is it worth it to
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
Hewlett Packard likes to talk about how they started in a garage. It's people like this who carry on that spirit and who own the future, not consumers or the HP of today.
Remote access (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Remote access (Score:3, Funny)
You need to hang around auto research labs more often. This is a common event when dealing with instrumented R&D cars. Of course, you have to be very careful since, unlike this car, many of these vehicles have data flowing in both directions. Accidentally spiking the steering actuator is bad. Very bad.
Shouldn't that be... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Shouldn't that be... (Score:3, Funny)
Hahahahaha good one! See, he's making a funny because of the similarity of the sounds of Czech and check. Woo hoo, hang on, let me catch my breath before I finish this post!
OK, there. Thanks. What makes this post so great is that Nobody Before in the History of the Planet has thought of that funny joke! Hahahahahaha oh man there I go again...
Re:Shouldn't that be... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Shouldn't that be... (Score:2)
No, then the RIAA would storm you for stealing from John Mellencamp. Only Springsteen is allowed to do that.
Re:Shouldn't that be... (Score:3, Funny)
But that's okay, because it's obvious that John Mellencamp stole all his stuff from Johnny Cougar anyway.
COPY OF TEXT : Before Slashdotting (Score:5, Informative)
Although not as known as many other car manufacturers, Tatra is actually the second oldest automobile company in the world (with only Daimler being older). It was established in 19th century and throughout the years came with many innovations, that helped to change many things in the industry. Just one example, probably quite surprising: the famous VW Beetle was "inspired" by certain streamline Tatra cars (V570, T97) so much, that Volkswagen had to pay few millions of D-Marks to Tatra as a compensation for patent violations. During 1930 and 1940, Tatra created several amazing cars, like T77, T87, T97 and trucks like T111. After the communist revolution in 1948, Tatra specialized mostly in truck production and the passenger cars were only manufactured in very limited numbers to be used by ruling elite. T603 was produced between 1958 and 1975 and the T613 (designed by Vignale) was produced between 1974 and 1996.
A picture for those who still think Jaguar is a big car
I must admit, I have loved Tatra's since I was a little boy. My father used to work as chaffeur for one of local bosses and I spent a lot of time on the rear seat of a T603 when I was three or four years old. Later, as a student I owned one of T603s myself. For few years I move to more practical cars for few years (Honda Civic and Volvo 480 to be exact), but what my Dutch friends call a Tatra-virus was still deep inside me. So when I stared to work in Holland and needed a comfortable car for almost-monthly trips to Czech republic, Tatra was very high on my list of choices. After two or three months I found one in good condition and I did not hesitate a minute.
Exterior picture of T613-4 Mi Long
My car is one of later T613s, produced in summer 1993 for Frankfurt auto show (and not actually used much after that). It is a T613-4Mi Long version (M=power steering, i=multi-point injection, long = wheelbase 3150mm instead of standard 3000mm). A sedan, larger than Mercedes Benz S-Klasse, with 3.5 litre V8 air cooled engine (200HP, 300 NM), mounted above the rear axle. It was originally an "Elektronik" version, which means all the controls were fully digital with several computers (including one for voice output) and parts communicating with each other using CAN-bus. (Hi, Volvo guys, your S80 was by far not the first one, would you correct your advertising materials please?) This equipment was later removed (by factory) and replaced by more traditional standard wiring, but at the moment I have decided to buy it, I was already sure that a computer must come back. And so it did - I started to work on my installation in summer 2002 and by Christmas, I had a working installation.
Why?
The basic two reasons that led me to the installation of the computer were the replacement of CD changer by an MP3 player and a navigation solution, based on Route 66 application. I am pretty sure anyone who needs to make 1000 km trips every month or has ever been lost in Copenhagen can understand these two reasons
First time in the Tatra - still in the original case (although without all the plastic)
The first idea was to use an LCD iMac, and built it into the original dashboard. The base unit was supposed to be placed within the dashboard and the display with its holder outside. This idea had two basic flaws: iMac's 1
Re:COPY OF TEXT : Before Slashdotting (Score:2)
here is another pioneer in aero design.
Voisin [escuderia.com]
A bientot, M. Server! (Score:5, Funny)
Connecting to ignition...Connection refused: too many users. Please try again later.
[mycar:~] bob% ignition
Connecting to ignition...Connection refused: too many users. Please try again later.
[mycar:~] bob% ignition
Connecting to ignition...Connection refused: too many users. Please try again later.
Damn you, Slashdot...
Re:A bientot, M. Server! (Score:2)
bob%
* Starting engined... [ ok ]
???
Re:A bientot, M. Server! (Score:3, Funny)
bob%
engine: permission denied
bob%
Re:A bientot, M. Server! (Score:3, Funny)
GET HIM!
Ultimate Taxi (Score:5, Interesting)
Great for Traffic Jams (Score:5, Funny)
Requisite commentary... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd post something of content, but the site is already severely
I think you are thinking of 'Xgrid-lock'... (Score:3, Funny)
*bows*
Dude, where's my... (Score:5, Funny)
Clever, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Do we need more distractions? Cars are for getting from A - B, and having the option to check email, the news, stock reports and hockey scores is just adding more distractions. Don't tell me that it's fine as long as the driver doesn't
Re:Clever, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Go read the article.
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s
Re:Clever, but... (Score:2)
Thanks for the blunt, cold response.
Re:Clever, but... (Score:2)
> itself, I feel my point does stand on how cars are moving to more and more
> distracting features.
Assuming your car is newer than a 1920, or its not a VW, then you already HAVE a computer in your car that controls all of these things.
It's just as hidden away not in the pasenger compartment as this guys computer is.
If your going to blame this guy for being distracted, your equally as guilty for doing the same thing with t
Re:Clever, but... (Score:2)
Do you work for the bush administration? I swear I've hard this dogma before :)
Re:Clever, but... (Score:2)
A reply to all atheists! (Score:2)
Picture this: You're cruising down the interstate, doing maybe 5 over the limit when a school bus sized SUV blasts by you. There is a woman in the driver's seat -- almost invariably these ought-to-require-commercial-licenses vehicles are driven by females -- and she's holding a cellphone to her ear with one hand & is facing backwards slapping the mu
You are not a parent (Score:5, Informative)
You should get a tinge of fear every time you get close to a mini-van and realize how much the driver may be distracted in a car people can stand up and walk around in. I never used to until I owned one. I'm back to a station wagon now where people stay where you put them.
Re:Clever, but... (Score:2)
A cop has a need for all these devices for his job, which is to protect the public. He needs the laptop to lookup potential criminals, the radios to keep in touch when a crime or accident is reported.
You on the other hand, are not a law enforcement officer or emergency worker.
Time for some bad unix puns? (Score:3, Funny)
and the GPS will help with those confusing forks() in the road which can be very awk-ward sometimes. I don't imagine his passengers will have normal regular expression when they get in the car for the first time
but I'm sure he'll mktime() to explain it all to them.
New(Old) Meaning (Score:2, Funny)
Slashdotting... (Score:2)
Racing Sim (Score:3, Interesting)
Cocoa in the "embedded" world? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ever since coming out as the basis for the NeXT computer over 15 years ago, the objective-c based NeXTSTEP/OpenSTEP/Cocoa framework has been touted as one of the most amazingly powerful that a person can develop in. In the old NeXT days I remember hearing the [informal] statement that one programmer up to speed with NeXTSTEP could do the work of about 10 normal programmers. I took that with a grain of salt until I started trying to write some simple apps for the first time in OS X's cocoa.
It is so easy and refreshing in ways I couldn't express with worlds! Writing anything in C++ anymore makes me want to pull my hair out. Sadly, it [objective-c & Cocoa] is still rather obscure. But it would be such a wonderful world if we got to see a renaissance? FINALLY the GNUStep project is beginning to approach a level of usability. If embedded applications started to become a reality...
Oh, that's about as silly a pipe dream as hoping Howard Dean becomes President!
Re:Cocoa in the "embedded" world? (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently, or at least a related topic: what object-oriented language works best in an embedded environment?
My first answer is "none", as embedded systems usually have more stringent requirements for speed and size. Also, most embedded programmers I know cannot do object-oriented programming well, even without the constraints I just described. (I could relate quite a few horror stories about that EE who just learned C++ and was let loose upon an unsuspect
Re:Cocoa in the "embedded" world? (Score:2)
Objective-C would not be a good language for embedded development. Embedded applications need as much static type checking and validation as possible. Embedded developers don't even like using function pointers, let alone dynamic dispatching.
I agree that it is a nice language, but I wouldn't want to receive a selector not bound exception when I need to turn right in my car...
Re:Cocoa in the "embedded" world? (Score:3, Informative)
Been done. (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, some guy named Wally Rodriguez built a similar Mac-based system [upstairsefx.com].
Not this cleanly (Score:2, Insightful)
iPod (Score:5, Interesting)
Now THAT is the ultimate car audio solution. Ahh
Re:iPod (Score:3, Informative)
It's not Slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)
What's the point? (Score:2, Interesting)
New modus operandi for thieves? (Score:3, Interesting)
Speaking of hacking automobile computers, my lowly 2003 GMC SLE pickup has an "entertainment center" that has some Driver Information Center functions that I can't display, because I didn't pay extra for the deluxe SLT package (which has the control buttons). I think it would be cool if someone fixed up a "hardware hack" that would let me add a keypad so I could call up all the additional data on the dashboard display...
One minor problem, in my eyes... (Score:2, Insightful)
Total time for me to plug in my iPod and hit play: 10 secs. In-dash GPS? Turns on with the car.
I know that this is a minor nitpick, and it's truly an admirable geek project. He may have even saved a couple bucks from buying off the shelf. Does this really work any better than the store bought equivalents?
wow! (Score:2, Funny)
never heard of those cars before either - the things that one can learn from slashdot!
Housing (Score:2)
See More @ mp3car.com (Score:5, Informative)
There are some really impressive installations out there. You can see a lot of them on the mp3car.com finished project board [mp3car.com]. In case anyone is curious, this is my installation [mp3car.com].
~GoRK
Does he park his car in an airport?? (Score:3, Funny)
I said it before... (Score:3, Insightful)
Am I the only person left in the world who:
Re:I said it before... (Score:2)
I don't have a cell-phone, so I don't even use one to talk to people.
My car is strictly a "get from point A to point B" device, though. Just me, my car, and a pile of old cassette tapes. No CD, no DVD, no XM, no GPS, just AM/FM/cassette goodness.
All the same (Score:3, Informative)
Wouldn't that be 6 money suckers?
reset button positioning (Score:2, Interesting)
only -1 for the position of the reset buttons (upper left towards the open space in the trunk). They need to be on the dash, or enclosed in the trunk.
-brady
Re:reset button positioning (Score:2)
Nah... modern macs are close to bulletproof. I'm running 10.2.6 on a G4/400 (similar to this guy) and I honestly don't think I've hit the reset button since I installed, despite the machine being on 24/7, usually running a good dozen apps.
Re:reset button positioning (Score:2)
ATI Remote Wonder Mac Edition (Score:5, Informative)
Big deal (Score:3, Funny)
Gives new meaning to the phrase (Score:2)
Linux-based similar setup in Jetta (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.dashpc.com/ [dashpc.com]
case mod? (Score:4, Funny)
engine (Score:3, Insightful)
I couldn't believe I was reading that correctly, and had to re-read it 4 times. That is far more strange than his custom computer.
Re:engine (Score:3, Interesting)
http://aek4470.finalnet.cz/pics/jjopr/P1010066.
http://aek4470.finalnet.cz/pics/oprava/P1010006
http://aek4470.finalnet.cz/pics/bylo/P1010025.
mp3car.com (Score:3, Informative)
Re:we meet again... (Score:3, Funny)
From an upcoming cancelled James Bond film:
007: What do you have for me today, Q?
Q: Well, I had a bugger of a time getting all the software mail-ordered, but I have finally finished this Macintosh powered car. It goes from zero to Sad Mac in under two seconds.
007: I think I'll stick with my Aston Martin, thanks.
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2)
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2)
Looks like themes to me, boss.
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2)
Of course, using a basic install of WinXP, it's not particularly changeable either, barring downloading third party tools.
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Another reason Apple should let us change color (Score:2)
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:4, Funny)
You DO know that this is a rear-engine car? Unless you live in the US in the deep south, rear engined cars are commonplace. VW Beetle, VW Bus, Porsche 911, most Ferraris...
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:2, Insightful)
funny, YES
]damn the dude even "winks" of course this aint insightful
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:3, Informative)
I know that was a joke, but rear engine == front fuel tank in most cars.
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:2)
Ahem... Pontiac Fieros are pretty common. So are Toyota MR2.
I don't live in the south - but I'm pretty sure they sold a few Fieros down there.
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:2)
(yea, you meant engine behind the driver
In that case lets not forget the MR2 Spyder, the Boxster and Boxster S, and a bunch of cars over 100k that I can't recall right now. Oh yea
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:4, Informative)
Easy: Buy a 1994 and up VW, Audi, Seat or Skoda. They all have a computer interface port where you can interface with all the electronic gadgets in the car. Everything from the airbags to the stereo, the transmission (if it's auto), tons of engine parameters... basically everything that runs on electricity is wired into the central system.
And VW (who owns Audi Seat Skoda and also Lamborghini, Rolls Royce and Bentley) has always openly published the communication protocols and specs to their interfaces - very Open Source like.
Read more Here [ross-tech.com]. These guys make an interface cable and software to communicate with your car. It plugs into your PC or laptop using standard RS-232 serial port or USB. I have a Turbo diesel Jetta and I can put a laptop in the passenger seat and monitor turbo boost pressure, anti-lock brake status, and even radio station information from the laptop!! I've always wondered why more hackers haven't been interested in these car brands since they have such open communication specs.... MAybe someone here can start a project on sourceforge to create a Linux client program to talk to my car?? (It's Windows only right now)
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:2)
Give me a bit, I only got my vagcom Wednesday!
--2004 A4 3.0QM owner
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:5, Informative)
If he's American it seems likely he's never even heard of Tatra before, let alone know where the engine is.
Having heard of Ledwinka is right out, even though he's without question one of the most brilliant automotive designers in history.
The article mentions the influence of Tatra on the VW, but rip all the plastic off the latest Corvette and what do you find?
Yep, that's right. Ledwinka's backbone chassis.
KFG
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that and a couple pounds of graphite and a few scraps of balsawood, but then the same is true of every F1 car these days.
American cars make great boat anchors, if even the sea will take them.
Well, we haven't done so well lately. I've actually owned two Fords, but then they were both German. I'd take a Cord L-29 in a heartbeat though if someone would be so kind as to bestow one upon me.
As for leaking oil I've always found that the British are the masters of getting cars to do that. As well as leaking tops.
For a long time I couldn't understand why my cars from sunny Italy all had tops that never leaked a drop that you could operate with one hand at a stoplight and had heaters that could give you heatstroke in the middle of a Canadian winter; but all my British cars had tops that took three men an hour to erect that then leaked like sieves and heat that only worked in July.
And then I had a revelation. The Italians are used to being warm and dry and take that state seriously, whereas being warm and dry is simply a concept that has never even occured to the British.
KFG
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.lightauto.com/ledwinka.html
http://www.corvetteconti.com/C5-Backbone.htm
And of course VW, FIAT and even myself have designed and built backbone chassis well before the modern Corvette adopted it.
If you wish to do more in depth research on this you'll have to rely on these things called "books." Not everything is on the web. I can highly recommend "The Bosch Book of the Motor Car: Its Evolution" to the casual reader.
L.J.K. Setright's book "The Designers" also has a lovely little chapter on Ledwinka and his contributions although this title is now a bit scarce.
By the way, the four valve, double overhead cam engine was invented by Ernest Henry for Peugot in 1912. The "unibody" was pioneered by Lancia in the early 1920s, whose chief designer spent an evening drawing up plans for virually every independant suspension system known to man.
In fact the only really serious technical innovation in automotive technology since WWII has been the microprocessor. The rest of it has basically boiled down to the simple availability of better materials. Lancia didn't have the carbon fiber the modern F1 car is made out of, but the construction of the modern F1 is basically the same Lancia's 1922 Lambda.
KFG
Re:Fastest Mac on four wheels? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think so pal. Tatras were competition for Mercedes, Jaguar, Bentley, and Rolls Royce.
This car cost more than your house.
Re:tatra? (Score:2)
You must live in Alabama or West Virginia.
A Tatra is a Czech car. They've been making cars for over 100 years [team.net].
Here [geocities.com] are some production figures for the country's various auto brands. FYI Skoda is now owned by Volkswagen.
Re:tatra? (Score:2)
Or simply North America.
I'm not trying to be arrogant, but I honestly can't understand why people think that the rest of the world is so damn relevant to Americans. It's thousands of miles away, it has no industry that we don't do ourselves in some fashion, and for the last 50 years we've been exporting our culture, not importing theirs. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but the simple fact is that aside from personal curiosity, there isn't much reason for the typ
Re:tatra? (Score:2)
Re:tatra? (Score:2)
Or that the Japanese aren't the best electronics manufacturers in the world.
So in conclusion, it is ignorant to think that just because it isn't made or sold in the US, that it is irrlevant.
Re:tatra? (Score:3, Interesting)
But to the vast, vast majority of Americans, it IS irrelevant. They aren't interested and they don't regret missing out on those things. Then when one of us does say, "WTF is a tatra?" (complete with implied arrogance/apathy toward the rest of the world) people act like you have to be a really dumb American to not know. No, you have to be a really interested American t
Re:tatra? (Score:2)
Ok, That makes sense. I can agree with that.
From a purely pragmatic point of view though, it does seem pretty dumb to not kno