Microsoft Unhappy With HP's iTunes Decision 1020
rbrandis writes "The general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products. In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said, 'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'"
NEWS FLASH! (Score:5, Interesting)
Why don't they sue Apple ? Hell, iTunes is bundled with OS X! Because they'll bundle a music store with media player soon enough... and try to kill iTunes completely.
....just out of curiosity (Score:3, Interesting)
MS = Choice = BAH! (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is ALL about cornering you into using MS products...
PRIME example is their damn Movie Maker 2... quite nice program to use (I haven't used iMovie, so I can't compare), but then try and save... "Hmmm, I'd like to save to an open format that pretty much anyone can play... VCD or SVCD, or perhaps just plain MPEG would be nice." "Hmmm, I seem to ONLY be able to save to MS formats unless I have a few gig free to save out to a straight DV dump and then use someone else's program to convert to a more user friendly format, so really I'm forcing anyone who wants to watch movies I've made to have an MS compatible player"
"Hmmm, MS can blow me, and blow me hard"
Betamax vs. VHS (Score:5, Interesting)
Sony had a superior quality format for videotape (betamax), but wouldn't share with anyone. Meanwhile, Panasonic, Philips, and others all got together and agreed on VHS format. Competition brought lower priced machines, and eventually VHS killed betamax for home use.
Microsoft is half-right: it is about choice-- but it must ALL be available for choice: the hardware, the OS, the apps, the data format. Only true, open standards under a GPL, LGPL, or other similar "free to evolve independent of any single vendor"-type license will work in the long run.
No monopoly for MS (Score:2, Interesting)
The point on interoperability is so true: Apple started to bridge the divide - in online music at least - with iPod/iTunes for Windows. Now HP are going to help bridge this further (and make $$'s from it of course).
So just how many brownie points did Dell earn with the "we love the MS monopoly"?
Honest Question (Score:5, Interesting)
is Windows Media Player a virus (Score:1, Interesting)
After all . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember, kiddies, that Microsoft is never about competing. Otherwise, they'd still be working on IE for Mac OS X, instead of complaining that another browser beat them.
Take your toys and go home, I say. We don't want you here.
so let me get this straight (Score:2, Interesting)
Thats one reason why I dont have an Ipod now is the lack of WMA support. My Creative MP3 player will play pretty much anything I tell it too.. Including microsofts limited wma files.
Once apple gains a foot hold more or less it will be better for the consumer
If I had a choice of 10 crappy products or one good product on the market I'd take the 1 good product
Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Never interview MS employees (Score:2, Interesting)
Didn't they ask Bill Gates what was the future of PCs in the mid 90s and he failed to mention the internet. iPod might be overrated, but Microsoft is really really overrated.
This is about MS's next OS (Score:2, Interesting)
No I think this is MS looking ahead to DRM and their next OS platform...will it still be adopted as the RIAA hopes if there are other more "standard" systems out there not under their control? Suddenly people will realize they don't need to buy an entire new OS/platform to be DRM compliant...they are worried iTunes will become a standard...something that will prevent them from force feeding us their own standard in their next OS.
Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Interesting)
"The next big thing isn't the next gizmo or killer app or hot box. Customers want all this to work together and they want a seamless approach. We're very much going to make sure that the Microsoft and Apple worlds work together. That's part of the power we bring to this thing."
meaning HP is treating Microsoft as just another supplier, where Dell can't.
So, IMHO, because HPs CEO has more balls
Yay competition!
Soko
Re:And in this instance, you're wrong. (Score:3, Interesting)
Other AAC Players (Score:3, Interesting)
WHO is David Fester? (Score:5, Interesting)
Internet Explorer Bug Makes a Return Visit [wired.com]
In 1998 he was the management flunky most directly responsible for all those MSIE bugs.
"On the one hand, they say they're pursuing standards, but they're implementing and pushing proprietary technology with their development community," Microsoft product manager David Fester said. "Microsoft has pledged 100 percent standards support for some time. The truth is in the pudding and the products."
Pot, Kettle Black (netscape, microsoft , standards, name-calling) [com.com]
Wednesday's Windows Media announcements are specific to XP, said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows Digital Media division. "These are companies that are doing things specifically around XP," he said. "As you know, our Windows Media effort is broader than just XP."
Windows Media announced for MAC/Linux/Solaris (not) [com.com]
"This is unprecedented, but we realized we need to work together [with Netscape] for the common good. We decided we should not propose separate standards for privacy software." David Fester, Microsoft, June 97
More Outright Lies from David Fester [tprc.org]
Tell me again why I want to listen to *anything* this man has to say.
Re:from the news post (Score:2, Interesting)
Because they cram their OS down the throats of computer sellers. It is not easy to buy a desktop without MS installed, nearly impossible to buy a laptop without MS installed.
Because they cram all of Office down your throat when all you want is MS Word.
windows is built to give people the opportunity to choose whatever they want to do.
What if I want to uninstall Internet Explorer?
look at windows media player - it plays EVERYTHING.
It plays stuff so long as it doesn't run into DRM issues.
apple on the other hand forces people to do certain things
Apple has the same problems MS has. The issue is that there are other choices than MS and Apple. Choices that give you REAL freedom.
Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Non-industry standards are Vorbis, FLAC, among others.
Well, either Vorbis is a standard because it's an effective and open standard, or you're talking about "Industry Standard" in terms of what gets most popularly used, which is, I assume, what you mean.
Welcome to Apple's plan: AAC will be an industry standard by that measure very soon. Especially if they keep having sponsired song giveaways on iTMS. Industry standards can (and will) change.
Jedidiah.
Re:choice? (Score:5, Interesting)
History repeating itself (sort of) (Score:5, Interesting)
This is affirmed by the fact that the 1984 ad that was played during MWSF had an iPod digitally grafted on to the woman throwing the hammer.
Apple is now the dominant manufacturer of portable music playback devices and has assumed the role of IBM. The licensing of the iPod and iTMS is a move straight out of the IBM playbook 20 years ago.
Life imitates parody... (Score:5, Interesting)
Under Anti-Trust Pressure, Apple Releases iTunes for Windows [ridiculopathy.com]
Re:Betamax vs. VHS (Score:5, Interesting)
So, seems like Apple is aware of this and thus sharing with quite a few people: Pepsi, Windows, HP, etc. And they certainly haven't been timid about signing up as many celebrities as they can to promote the iPod and the iTMS. It would've been kind of hard for a movie star to walk around with their betamax player, but the iPod is the new Air Jordan.
Only one format per player? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:NEWS FLASH! (Score:4, Interesting)
We can only hope.
Re:Bad for consumers? (Score:3, Interesting)
jon
Have you counted? (Score:3, Interesting)
In this case, Microsoft is right. Of all the DRM'ed music formats, Apple's verison of AAC offers the least choice to the consumer.
Windows *is* about choice (Score:2, Interesting)
Now I do think that they are unfairly trying to force people to use IE and Windows Media Player, but that doesn't mean you can't install and use something else.
Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:3, Interesting)
1) they may hope to make money in the future (I am sure of this
2) they may make enough on peripheral sales with PC's to offset the loss on the PC
for instance, if they lose $1 per PC sold by on one out of every 3 PC's sold they sell a peripheral making them $4 then they have a motivation to keep selling PCs
3) to be considered a serious tech player they need to sell PCs
just some thoughts I had....
Re:choice? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:choice? (Score:1, Interesting)
Two (Score:2, Interesting)
2. Mac OS Classic
Ohh no! (Score:3, Interesting)
This is all about MS history biting them in the ass. Their previous records of ass fucking every possible partner has gotten into the heads of people. You cant trust MS and thus you team up with ABM.
Irony! (Score:5, Interesting)
Same with software. Software is targetted *toward* an OS; the operating system is (hardly) never written towards an application.
Microsoft has made a company from destroying competition, yet (ironically) a lot of software is targetted toward the MS-Windows operating system.
This is due mostly to Microsoft's early control of the hardware distribution chain. By controlling the software that was installed when there was very little choice, they have managed to lock out other software from being included today. Since that control translated to 90% desktop market share, other software companies felt they were safe targetting the MS-Windows platform.
Apple does not have a history of driving other software companies out of business by bundling their own software with their OS; Microsoft does have that reputation. So your comments are extremely ironic, and display a certain ignorance of history.
Re:Choice in the Microsoft World (Score:1, Interesting)
Go ahead and blather about their locker room talk over at Microsoft. There isn't another company in the world (except, maybe, loser companies) that doesn't have the same goals.
Re:It all boils down to one thing for me: (Score:2, Interesting)
A product choice should not always be based on inertia. Since the MP3 player market since is so young, there isn't much inertia to begin with. Try quality, price, support, and other merits first.
* I apologize to those of you who have contributed to a Linux distro, but are not geeks. I didn't mean you, honestly
Re:choice (Score:3, Interesting)
It also integrates with the Sony Clie and many other Palms with the help of MarkSpace's Missing Sync product.
Re:Honest Question (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Choice in the Microsoft World (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Irony! (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft, however, might have used monopolistic tactics to promote their OS and other apps. I suppose it is (ironically, as you claim) because of these tactics that Windows is the more widely used OS and therefore the one more software writers target. MS, of course, exposes and documents their API and DDI so that more applications and devices can use windows and help it propogate.
All I am trying to say is that Apple, in general, has fewer devices and programs that can run on it. It seems like nearly all the hardware you can use on an Apple is sold by Apple themselves.
Re:Other AAC Players (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:bad for consumres? (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft is never more dangerous than when they are losing to a competitor and everyone knows it. Look what they did to Netscape, fer chrissakes. Netscape went from 85% market share, to a stripped carcass in the dumpster behind AOL HQ. Took a while, but it happened.
I'm just wondering when Microsoft will adapt that tactic to fight off the iPod, and start giving away WMA-based digital music players... boxed with copies of Windows, perhaps? Or available for ordering on their site, for just the cost of shipping. Prolly get away with it, too, if the fucking Republicans stay in power.
Haven't I seen that quote before? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bad for consumers? (Score:2, Interesting)
And don't forget Sony. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Apple is only one of many companies *using* AAC (Score:2, Interesting)
Err.. they license the tech but maybe each person has a unique key to decode their particular DRM content. Otherwise one of the major MP3 player manufactures would license fairplay and tout their player as being able to play AAC's and WMA's.
Re:i do have a choice (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:choice (Score:2, Interesting)
And I like it!
Re:Windows *is* about choice (Score:2, Interesting)
Secondly, the entire PC industry is trending toward "legacy-free" connections. Namely, Firewire and USB. Floppies, serial ports, parallel ports, ISA--all these are being wrung out of the computing marketplace. And what was the prototype for this movement? Again, the iMac.
Third, Apple has adopted Open Source software. This allows users the chance to make changes they deem necessary at a much more fundamental level than is possible with Microsoft.
My basic peeve with Microsoft is that they actively diminish the computing experience in service to their own ends. Their website looks better with their products. Media plays more smoothly with their software. Crucial features in the Windows versions of their products are missing from the Macintosh version. They corrupt standards in service to their bottom line (e.g. Kerberos, SMB, Java) or freeze out popular standards for the sake of their agenda (e.g. MP3). They don't tend to compete by being the best; they compete by leveling things to the lowest common denominator--which happens to be Windows.
Sure, Apple is proprietary. You pasted the reason in the last sentence of your post. But don't think for a moment that Microsoft isn't as proprietary as it thinks it needs to be.
Re:NEWS FLASH! (Score:2, Interesting)
What's the big deal? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:NEWS FLASH! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:i do have a choice (Score:2, Interesting)
And look what happens when you buy all your hardware from random sources and piece it all together... you get so many machines that lock up for no reason at all. This is not the way Apple wants it. We don't pay Apple for superior hardware, we pay for a machine that works, and works rather flawlessly. (and looks damn fine while doing so.)
Re:It all boils down to one thing for me: (Score:2, Interesting)