Washington Post Covers iPod Battery Ruckus 923
An anonymous reader sent in a link to 'Battery and Assault: When His iPod Died, This Music Lover Tackled Apple. Stay Tuned.' in the Washington Post. The article (good reading even if you're familiar with the situation) has Apple reps being rather callous about the issue - I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption that if you spend several hundred dollars on a gizmo, it shouldn't be "disposable". A replacement battery for my cell phone cost $10; one for my cordless phone cost $10; Apple is presumably making a good deal of money on their $99 replacements.
But... (Score:5, Funny)
It's an Apple battery. That's $99 of quality Apple engineering you're paying for.
Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:3, Informative)
It's a battery from a third party manufacturer.
Apple doesn't make batteries.
(PS. Apple has switched to a new battery manufacturer)
(PPS. My old first edition iPod still works perfectly. Most of them do.)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not that strange. People shouldn't get free repairs forever on any device, and 1 year is much longer than the other hard drive based players offer.
On the other hand, Lithium Ion batteries last a long time in a small footprint, but they do die. And to replace them for ANYTHING is expensive, for whatever reason, it's why i made sure my latest digital camera ran off AAs. The $99 (you know, i heard $79 when I looked into it...it s inevitable with these things) upgrade includes some guy taking apart your ipod and replacing the battery, hopefully not messing up the delicate electronics while he's in there. $99 is not bad for invasive service on ANY device...I got charged $119 for Canon to CLEAN my printer a while back. Clean it!
I'd love to see Apple lower the price on these things, but it probably isn't going to happen. Best we can hope for is a third party to offer battery service for less money. There are battery sales for the 1 and 2G ipods...all it will take is one entrepeneur to offer these, with install, for a fair price. Maybe even auction off "battery repair" on ebay. Heckuva way to work yourself through an electronics trade school...
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when is changing a battery repairing something?
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but for a well designed product, a dead battery does not require "fixing" or "service", it requires a trip to Target, pushing in a button, and popping in new batteries.
On the other hand, Lithium Ion batteries last a long time in a small footprint, but they do die. And to replace them for ANYTHING is expensive, for whatever reason, it's why i made sure my latest digital camera ran off AAs. The $99 (you know, i heard $79 when I looked into it...it s inevitable with these things) upgrade includes some guy taking apart your ipod and replacing the battery,
This is just ridiculous. Lithium Ion batteries will fail and fail within a year or two of constant use. It's just the way they are. Batteries aren't like solid state electronics, which pretty much work forever, or even hard drives (which have a constant failure probability, meaning that it's as likely to break down 20 years after you buy it as the day you bought it).
An irreplaceable battery is simply a horrible design decision, and very poor engineering. Any other company, and people would be screaming to the sky at how shitty a job they've done. But since it's apple, they get a pass from all the people who worship the company.
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Except it's not irreplaceable. It requires a screwdriver to replace. Pop the casing off, unplug old battery, plug in replacement, put case back on. Wipe hands on pants.
Not much difficulty, and you only need to do it once every 1.5 to 2 years. And if you don't like doing it, you can pay someone to do it. Even the manufacturer, if you really want to.
The iPod is well designed. Look how small it is! Isn't that cool? Why would Apple ruin a device by making it butt-ugly 24/7 just to make a once-every-two-years task a little simpler?
Even if you do think it's crap, don't bitch about it. Go and buy an iPod competitor, which will either be bigger, have no hard drive, take longer to upload to, have a non solid-state controls, have jaggy edges, have a crap user interface, or some combination thereof.
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:5, Informative)
Apple replaces more than just the battery... (Score:5, Informative)
NOTE: iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service.
iPod Battery Replacement [apple.com]
Getting a new or refurbished unit isn't all that bad of a deal. I'm pretty sure they won't send you a dinged-up scratched to hell unit
Re:Apple replaces more than just the battery... (Score:4, Interesting)
How does that work for engraved backs?
Counterpoint: the GBA battery. (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple's engineering Wizards could have designed an easy-to-service battery if they had wanted to. Rather, it seems the decision was made to turn an EASY replacement into a revenue stream. Why are so many posters (not the parent in particular) trying to rationalize corporate greed? Just be honest, and call an elephant an elephant when you see one.
========
Re:Counterpoint: the GBA battery. (Score:5, Informative)
GBA: 13.5 x 8.0 x 2.5 cm = 270cm cubed volume
It's easy to add everything. Problem is, you end up with a "fat" product. Just ask MS. Apple know what to cut - and that's why people are comfortable carrying around an iPod in their pocket.
Oh, and the reason that those batteries are so cheap (relatively) is because they're AAs. Failed to mention that bit. Interestingly enough, it's Nintendo that are making the $$$ on the batteries - that's way too much for a set of rechargables.
I call bullshit. The battery service has only been offered in the last couple of months. How long has the iPod been around for? If it was designed to be a revenue stream, the battery service would have been around for almost as long as the iPod itself. It hasn't been.
-- james
Re:Apple doesn't make batteries (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:was he supposed to make sure to leave it unsync (Score:5, Informative)
The damage comes from frequent short cycles since the battery itself is limited to a limited number of charge cycles (not imposed on you by some counter that ticks down, due to the way the battery works). The battery can also be conditioned into a lower capacity state with frequent short cycles, so the pmu thinks the battery is full when it isn't.
The days of non-intelligent chargers are long gone.
Don't forget the battery is so user friendly.. (Score:5, Funny)
It also tells you in your choosen language if you have managed to insert it incorrectly.
Praise Apple!
Re:But... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is actually a quote from the article. I guess Apple has nothing to do with expensive branding and corporate identity.
What world am I living on?
Re:But... (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple engineering, or Apple PR? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real alternative from the corporate dominated, expensive label, universe is any free Unix (*BSD, Linux, whatever) on cheep hardware. I'm too poor to pay an extra 10-15% for "Apple Engineering", or (more realistically) the Apple Image(TM).
Again, I'm not trying to flame or troll here, I do know that Apple generally produces very high quality products, and I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't use Apple, I just can't see how they got a "rebel" image...
Re:Apple engineering, or Apple PR? (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's the whole point of the Cult of Apple with some people. It's kinda like a kid who thinks of himself as a "rebel"- he doesn't buy $200 basketball shoes, won't wear sideways facing baseball caps or baggies below the waist, and his speech is unaffected by the rap patois- y'know- trying to sound like you come from the inner city when you actually live in a farming town in Kansas. So what does this kid do? He buys only a certain brand of black boot (often Doc Martens), a certain long black overcoat, with matching black t-shirts, dyes his blonde hair black, all because he is 'anti-fashion'. Hey- marketers know these types of people exist and know they can sell stuff to them easy.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to listen to some tunes on my iPod.
Re:Apple engineering, or Apple PR? (Score:4, Insightful)
Heh, it's funny. The "Apple : Computers
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
No.... Apple just breaks even on the music store so they can sell iPods. Then they break even on the iPods just so they can sell you the batteries!
Re:But... (Score:3, Informative)
What drive brand are you using?
Re:But... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've had several laptop drives die on me. I could imagine an iPod drive will have to suffer even more punishment than an average laptop drive.
Re:But... (Score:3, Informative)
If it's "off the shelf" why are you asking about a replacement?
Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
Apple doesn't sell Apple-branded mini-to-RCA cords.
Not sure where you saw that but it wasn't an Apple cable. Yes they are totally guilty of absurd mark-ups (they took a page from Sony's book), but not to that extent.
They do sell a Monster cable [apple.com] on the AppleStore that is mini-to-RCA. $46 CDN.
Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they manufacture the cheap ones right on that isle, but the expensive ones include the cost of transportation and export fees (air is fast, but a boat is probably cheaper, depending on how far apart the isles are).
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
It isn't just how far apart the isles are but how safe the seas are as well. Everyone's heard how piracy can push prices up...
Re:But...The high price of individualism. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:But...The high price of individualism. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:But...The high price of individualism. (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing Apple has to offer (for now anyway) is the fact that they make (or at least have made to their specifications) the entire package, from hardware to OS to many of the basic applications, including (as with iPod, and iTunes) significant peripherals and online content. Nobody else can make that claim for now, be it Microsoft, Dell, HP, nobody. As a result, Apple can get away with charging a premium price for every item in their product line.
As a fan of Apple, I HOPE they have an exit strategy however, because I don't think the party will last much longer. With everyone copying Apples' successful marketing efforts and then chopping large percentages off the cost Apple is in the position of having to hit a home run every time they step up to the plate (or almost) and I am concerned that as the cost of computer components approach zero, and with many software costs already at zero they will not be able to compete.
If no US companies get a clue soon I would not be surprised if we end up buying computers of the future from companies like Sony, Panasonic or Gold Star at $75 a pop and throwing them away whenever they don't match our color scheme. In that world, companies like Apple and Microsoft have no place, companies like Intel become more like Texas Instruments, only something you know about if you break the seals on your computer and look at the components with a magnifying glass.
After having paid top dollar for three incrementally newer Palm Pilots in a row I finally figured out that the "trouble with this picture" was me. When I saw the iPod I knew that one of these days I'd have one, but not for more than about $100. I'm still waiting. I think a lot of other people will too. At some point I think it would be worth Apples consideration to just flood the market with iPods at their cost plus a small percentage. If you could buy the whole thing for $75 then nobody would complain about it not having replaceable batteries.
Re:But...The high price of SCSI cables. (Score:4, Insightful)
Except it's not. (Score:5, Informative)
I'll probably get modded flamebait for this, but the main reason Apple products cost so much is because Apple fans will pay that much. The best description I ever saw of Apple is that "Apple isn't a hardware or software company-it's a cult" (shameless ripped from an old
Re:Except it's not. (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed (Score:3, Interesting)
Just poor design. Nice and shiny on the outside, but terrible engineering elsewhere. And yes. This battery problem is simply terrible, embarassing engineering.
Mr. Jobs' ego is too big to admit to this problem. Anyone who defends Apple in any other regard just has to look at how they handle goofs like this. It says an awful lot about the company.
Re:Agreed (Score:4, Insightful)
Disagreed (Score:5, Interesting)
It runs my work stereo, my house stereo, and my car stereo. Literally, it's ALWAYS ON.
Last week I turned it on at 9am, and ran it with Sound Check and EQ's turned ON, and it ran until 5:30 where it politely told me it was about to die, then died about 2 minutes later. I'd say 8 1/2 hours is fine out of a 2 year old machine that gets abused as hard as I treat it.
Or should I be a bitch like everyone else and complain because I'm not getting the advertised 10 hours?
Re:Disagreed (Score:5, Insightful)
This is because the amount and type of use dictate performance in ubiquitous devices. No two uses are the same. So no two variations are the same.
As for the iPod...one of the tricks with battery life is to keep the hard disc from spinning, and keep the backlight off. Do these things and you can get 8+ hours. If you listen to a song, then scan for the next one, and repeat rather than selecting a playlist all at once, your battery life will be much lower. Because the machine has to spin up the drive each time, wheras with a playlist it loads all the songs it can up to the limits of memory. If you do these things and DON'T get 8+ hours, tell apple and they will fix it within the first year of purchase (within 90 days you don't even pay shipping). Because even with the tightest controls, there are still lemons. It's not like you're stuck with your citrus, though.
I don't see how the mechanics of a platter hard disc running off a battery "speak directly to quality," but I'm guessing your point was to disrespect Apple. Good job.
Re:Disagreed (Score:4, Insightful)
I suggest that because they have been able to correct SOME battery status/recharge problems with firmware updates that the problem is most likely engineering.
Re:Disagreed (Score:3, Funny)
By the way, the face punching never really happened. But he did deserve it. grr.
Re:Agreed (Score:3, Interesting)
8 hours of battery life is plenty for me as it charges when i am in my car or docked each night at home.
On your ipod status, i have a 30gb too. Notice that when the hard drive or backlight is on it is reporting how much battery life is left at that current load demand. When those are off, it will have more life. It may seem
Apple coming out with new batteries (Score:3, Informative)
sounds like apple is taking the steps they need to be taking, they just dont have a fix yet. On the other hand I think this battery bussiness is not so widespread but just a few defective ones. I know loads of people with ipods that have no problems.
iPod rocks because no-one else tries (Score:5, Insightful)
All the other devices have lame interfaces, poor displays, and require lots of button pushing. No-one has approached Apple's interface for the iPod. I don't like the iPod, personally, but can recognize it's the best. I don't like the chrome back (why can't it all be in the one material?) which, on my friends iPod, looks all smudgey and dirty from finger prints, and I think this whole 'snow white' phase is going to fall on its ass within the next couple of years anyway. Colored/textured iPods (a la the old iMac) might be a hit.
If there was something designed a little like the iPod (i.e. easy to use, nothing fancy, clean and simple, not 100s of buttons) for around the $200-$300 mark with, say, recording, and a 20-40GB hard drive, they'd sell like hot cakes.
As it is, the iPod sells like hot cakes because it's the only viable choice without getting something that's ugly and angular as fuck, and with the world's shittiest interface. Apple knows this, and their computers operate on the same principle. They might not be perfect, but they're better. (Come on, OS X is not the best we could be doing right now, but it's better than the alternatives)
Owning an iPod is going to be like a chick owning a Chanel purse. Cool, and expensive, and they can keep stuff in it.. but they need to keep changing it every couple of years to stay 'in fashion' and to stop it wearing out.
Re:Sounds like the Dell DJ (Score:5, Funny)
See? Nerds are at heart a pragmatic people.
Re:That's a load of shit, do some research (Score:4, Interesting)
I think he might have ment 'can be used _at the same time_ by multiple computers'. In either case, both ipod and karma require outside assistance to get them to work with Linux...not horrid, though not bundled in the packaged either.
I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that since the extra features exist in the Karma, and Apple does not metion the lack of those features other people who are choosing an audio device like an ipod can't consider the extra features if they compare the ipod to the karma?
Apple makes good products. Apple DOES NOT make good products ALL the time. They had a buring laptop problem a few years ago, if memory serves me.
No, though you are overly defensive. Why, I can't say.
Sony laptop batteries (Score:4, Interesting)
Or you could (Score:5, Informative)
Sure you have to install it yourself, but it's not hard at all.
Re:Or you could (Score:4, Informative)
I know you're bound to tell me that they are idiots for breaking their iPod. Personally, I think they're right to direct their anger at a company that [a] Made the battery non-user replaceable, and [b] presumably knew that the batteries could die in about 18 months. If [b] isn't true, then it's just incompetence.
Disclosure: I own an iPod, and it's working ok, but the battery no longer holds its charge for longer than about 3 days, which is kind of annoying, but iPods are so great otherwise I can live with it. I'm not looking forward to my battery finally dying though.
Re:Or you could (Score:3, Interesting)
The unit comes with a 1 year warranty with option to buy extended warranties. This is what warranties are for. Most batteries will not die after 18 months, most batteries will die in approx 3-5 years.
Many things have internal non-replacable rechargable batteries. Most PDA's for instance.
Pick any two:
1. Thin
2. Replaceable Ba
Re:Or you could (Score:5, Informative)
"Some of the e-mail the Neistat Brothers received from "iPod's Dirty Secret" came from people who were quick to tell them "that we're [bleep]ing imbeciles, [because] you can buy a battery online and do it yourself," Casey says.
The brothers already tried that.
They Googled around and ordered the battery from a different vendor that came with complicated instructions and "these two plastic gigantic toothpicks," Casey says. It took a while to pry the back cover off the iPod's impenetrable design. Beneath that was "a gummy adhesive" which covered the mini hard drive, "and there were these two very tiny connectors with three prongs," in a work space "about the diameter of a needle."
He felt as if he was performing amateur neurosurgery."
Of course, I can't have any sympathy for the guy for going out and buying another iPod after the incident.
Re:Or you could (Score:3, Insightful)
What a dumbass. He bought another anyway... An experience like that would force me to look elsewhere. I'm sure apple wishes they had more customers like that guy. Spray paint campaign aside, he bought 2 ipods and will probably never use anything but apple anyway.
Re:Or you could (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Or you could (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the big issue here is that apple has met demand and lowered prices on alot of it's hardware. In change, they've started charging for software that they hadn't in the past. I think it's upsetting the core audience into believing they are getting bled. To a certain extent, I feel that way. It ends up being that you don't really *need* to buy any of this stuff.
Re:Or you could (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice to know that complex technical arguments can be solved using a simple personal insult.
Perhaps explain why every operating system for the last 3 decades have defined 1KB = 1024 bytes, 1MB = 1024**2 bytes, and when large storage became available, extended that to 1GB = 1024**3 bytes.
Then along comes a hard disk manufacturer, unilaterally redefines it, and suddenly they're right? And fdisk is wrong. And ls
IPod Tech Support Conversation (Score:5, Funny)
USER: Ummm.... I can't turn my iPod on anymore.
APPLE: Have you tried using the power button?
USER: Ummm.....
APPLE: Try pushing the little button to turn it on.
USER: Umm.... It doesn't work.
APPLE: Have you tried recharging your iPod?
USER: I want to listen to my music.
APPLE: Well sir, it seems like your battery might be dead. You'll need to buy a replacement for $99.
USER: I got new shoes today.
APPLE: That's nice.
49 + 50 = 99 (Score:3, Insightful)
at least $50, including the service fees. that's how much the battery (sans installation) costs here [ipodbattery.com].
It's not supposed to wear out. (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, no Apple product could have a defect. Certainly not a predictable one. Certainly not one designed to improve profit margins at initial sale and revenue growth after the warranty period. Not Apple. Not Steve Jobs. Not the Dread Pirate Roberts of Silicon Valley...
Lithium Ion Dummy! (Score:4, Informative)
The iBook batteries are expensive too, same concept, they both have built in circuit boards to make sure the batteries or device is not damaged, unlike this guy's cell phone which is much cheaper akaline (?) or something of the same caliber.
Ok, not sure what kind of cellphone YOU have (Score:3, Informative)
Now I just picked up a new battery for my cellphone, a high capacity one since the normal one wasn't as big as I'd like. I decided to buy a genuine Motorola one, rather than a generic, despite them being more expensive. It was $30 all said and done, for the battery and a backplate to accomidate its physically larger size.
Now, given that, I cannot concieve how
I once wrote a petition draft... (Score:5, Interesting)
But I still wonder why companies still don't come up with a standard form factor. Come on, it's a GOOD thing to have a standard battery form factor. Where is the business sense in keeping a large stock of special-sized batteries for your product that may become useless before you can sell it to your customers?
Re:I once wrote a petition draft... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I once wrote a petition draft... (Score:4, Insightful)
Comparing battery prices... (Score:5, Insightful)
A replacement battery for my cell phone cost $10; one for my cordless phone cost $10;
Both your cell phone battery and your cordless phone battery are, presumably, removable. Now, maybe Apple made a mistake in not making their battery removable (but it sure makes the unit smaller), but regardless, there is a lot more effort involved in replacing the battery for the iPods.
In addition to this, I'd like to know where michael gets his cell-phone batteries; my last replacement would have run me $40 if I hadn't purchased "insurance" when I got the phone that covered dead batteries as well.
Re:Comparing battery prices... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, maybe Apple made a mistake in not making their battery removable (but it sure makes the unit smaller), but regardless, there is a lot more effort involved in replacing the battery for the iPods.
I don't think it would affect the size all that much. Cellphones are fairly tiny and their batteries are replacable. spring contacts aren't all that bulky.
I have to wonder, most diehard Mac fans I know are 'into the environment' as well. How environmentally sound is it to throw an iPod away just because th
Wish I made batteries (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple Battery Engineers (Score:5, Insightful)
If those guys used their iPod for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, that comes out to about 546 charge cycles in an 18 month period. That also doesn't account for poor battery usage by the user (half charges, etc.)
The guys who use their iPod all day long everyday should expect the batteries to die after a shorter period. If I ran my car 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, and then complained when the engine blew up I'd be laughed at by the dealer.
Dealer: "You put how many miles on it in 18 months?"
Me: "220,000. Why did it die so soon?"
Dealer: "Because you're an idiot."
Re:Apple Battery Engineers (Score:4, Insightful)
When was the last time you ran into a dealer that said they wouldn't replace the engine in your car after it blew up?
Re:Apple Battery Engineers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple Battery Engineers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apple Battery Engineers (Score:3)
What's wrong with this picture? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to get back at a company that screwed you over, don't turn around and give them $400.
why battery life is a non-issue for most people (Score:5, Interesting)
I was given an iPod as a gift and I adore it. There's one thing to keep in mind that isn't covered in the Post article, nor in the iPod's Dirty Secret film. As the Post mentioned, the iPod is good for something like 500 charges. Now the thing to keep in mind, is that if you don't listen to tons of music, 500 charges amounts to many, many years of use. A charge lasts me a good six or seven hours, and I doubt if I listen to more than an hour of music a day. So figure one charge a week, or fifty charges a year. So, for somebody like me, 500 charges lasts nearly a decade (assuming the battery doesn't crap out before that due to old age.)
There are two things that separate people like me from the Neistat Bros. First is that they listen to a whole lot more music than I do. Second, it seems like they listen to all of their music on their iPod. By comparison, I listen to most of my music on my stereo, and only put on my iPod for trance and classical stuff, where I prefer headphones. For people like me, who listen to their iPods for less than an hour a day, battery life is a non-issue. In five or ten years, I would hope that it would not be worth my time to replace the battery. At that time, I'd be more than happy to plunk down, say, $200 for a low-end iPod capable of storing 100,000 songs and twelve feature-length movies ;)
One last thing to keep in mind. Good old Steve has had a thing for hermetically sealed boxes since the days of the original Mac, when opening up one to insert a hard drive would void your warranty. And for most people, hermetically sealed is the way to go. If you're a power computer user, you want an expandable computer; and if you're a serious music lover, a sealed solution like an iPod is a poor solution. But there's a certain beauty in keeping things elegant and for making something meant for everyday users.
Yeah yeah anecdotal evidence means nothing, but (Score:3, Interesting)
Not that outlandish (Score:5, Informative)
Second, whose cell phone batteries are only $10? A new lithium-ion battery for my phone costs about $50, and that's just something you can snap on and off yourself. To have someone open up your iPod and replace the battery, then mail it back...doesn't sound that unreasonable.
It's just what you get for buying a device that doesn't have an easily replaceable battery.
That said, there are ways to increase the lifetime of a lithium-ion battery. Back when I started college, we were all required to buy laptops. I was one of the few who actually read the manual, and it said the battery was good for a couple hundred full recharges, and about 800 partial recharges. Some people don't understand that lithium-ion batteries don't have the same memory effect that nickel-cadmium ones do. So for the duration of college, I kept the laptop plugged in whenever possible, and only ran the battery all the way down when I needed to use it for that long. Other people had to buy new $250 batteries, but my old laptop still gets about 2 hours life out of its five-year-old battery. I do the same for my cell phone; keep it on a charger whenever possible, and it still had good battery life when I need it.
If you use your iPod away from any source of recharging power so much, then I guess you just have to live with it. It's a fact of lithium-ion batteries, Apple's doing the best with what technology is available. And $99 isn't too expensive a replacement cost, if you had 18 months of wireless music. If you're willing to plug in whenever you sit down near a wall outlet, and don't wait until the battery is dead before recharging it, then your iPod will last much longer.
Blame Canada!^WApple! (Score:5, Insightful)
Blaming Apple's engineers or design staff is at most a reach, because they didn't manufacture every piece of the iPod, they spec'd out the available technologies and then put them together with some creative hardware and software to (undeniably) create the best mp3 player currently available.
Do we see people blaming Maxtor for every hard drive (and it's quite a few) that fails after 18 months, espeically since their warrenty now only covers the first 12? How about the fact that 1 out of about 10 Maxtor drives is either DOA or dies within the first month? (Yes, I'm using a small sample size of my and friends purchases of aroud 14 Maxtor hdds in the last 2 years)
If you're buying a product with a 1 year warrenty, realize that you might just have to replace it after that time, or repair it. Hell $99 for a new iPod battery? Sounds like a good deal to me. I'd gladly pay Apple $49 to make sure I don't fuck up my iPod installing a $50 battery. This is a case of Apple finding a need of their customers that managed to get some of the shorter life batteries (and eventually the other customers) and responding.
The iPod video idiots and Washington Post are the ones who have been irresponsible in this case. Taking company policy from peons in the service department (of course they're going to say you have to buy a new iPod back _before_ Apple Corporate got the battery replacement in the pipeline) is not responsible reporting, nor is reporting on company policies that have been outdated by 6 months to a year.
Standard batteries = better (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, as noted, when AA rechargeables begin to crap out, they are cheaply and easily replaced.
Of course, it may be the case that the iPod draws too much power to subsist on AA's. To this I say: if Sony can design their Minidisc players to use AA's, and Apple cannot do the same for iPods, then Apple ought to hire some better engineers.
Re:Standard batteries = better (Score:5, Insightful)
If apple is guilty of anything it's making the battery not easy to replace. You know, when you buy the thing there's no easy battery door, and you know batteries don't last forever.
Apple designed this exactly the way they wanted it. So they would be doing the replacements on the batteries and profiting.
Re:Standard batteries = better (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Standard batteries = better (Score:4, Interesting)
Hardware License (Score:3, Interesting)
Wuh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Some things to consider. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a stupid argument. Your cordless phone battery is probably NiCd or NiMH. Ditto for your cell phone battery. Those are old technologies and our dirt cheap at this point. The iPod battery is a Lithium-Polymer, which is much more expensive, even with wholesale prices. Is Apple making a profit? Probably. But the price of your cordless phone battery has nothing to do with it.
Also, keep in mind that Apple is charging for installation. The battery is only $50 (as evidenced by the price you pay from suppliers), so $49 is for shipping and installation. Now, a hard drive is easy to install, right? So ask CompUSA how much they'll charge for installing one? Much more than it's worth, I'm sure.
#1 thing you can do to kill your iPod battery (Score:5, Interesting)
A Lithium-ion battery slowly looses its charge even when no power is being drawn from it. So when your iPod indicates that the battery is low, charge it. Don't let it sit around in a low-charge state, it will only discharge itself more. And remember that when an iPod is off, it is not really off, it goes into a sleep mode where it draws a minimal current from the battery.
This won't be a problem for me since I can't go more that a couple of days without using my iPod. But if you leave your iPod sitting around (not charging) for a while, eventually the iPod will drain the battery until the battery level gets so low that the iPod actully turns fully off and then the battery will continue to loose charge because of the nature of Li-ion batteries.
My letter to the author... (Score:5, Insightful)
Subject: iPod story
Date: December 20, 2003 6:18:37 PM CST
To: stueverh@washpost.com
I'm very disappointed with your iPod story, for several important reasons. If you only read one of the responses you get about this story, read this one:
1. Apple began offering the battery replacement program as early as November 14, before the ipodsdirtysecret.com domain name was even registered (November 20). While coincidentally close, Apple released both the AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod and the battery replacement program BEFORE anyone had ever seen the videos, and indeed before anyone at Apple or otherwise knew anything about the Neistat brothers' video. A small - very small - amount of research would have revealed this. (Also, the battery program was in the works since at least June.) The reason this is important is that you make it seem that it's only because of the brothers' tactics that Apple responded, the implication being they otherwise wouldn't have. That is false.
2. Since the battery replacement program - that the Neistat brothers themselves say is "fair" in their statement - was already in effect when they rolled out the video, they KNOWINGLY let almost a half million people see the incorrect and inaccurate video without telling them the truth: that Apple DID offer a battery replacement program. I'm sure they felt like their little video would be essentially negated since Apple already released a replacement program, so they went ahead with it anyway.
3. ALL lithium ion batteries fail after a period of time. ALL. The fact that the iPod's battery is not user replaceable, i.e., is a custom form factor carefully engineered into the product, is one of the things that makes it so small, and thus, so desirable...tradeoffs.
4. The Dell DJ's lithium ion battery is also not user-replaceable, and Dell officially has no repair or replacement plan (outside of warranty) for the battery.
5. They are currently hosting their anti-Apple video on Mac.com - Apple's own servers! (albeit paid by another Mac.com user - yes, I realize that a Mac.com user can do whatever they want with their webspace; it's just ironic).
6. I offered to host their video for them when they were begging for mirrors in the first few days...with ONE condition: that they post/link to/etc information about Apple's battery replacement program that had ALREADY BEEN ROLLED OUT that they were essentially denying existed. They NEVER posted the information after several promises to do so (while I was hosting the video) and taking complete advantage of my offer. See http://das.doit.wisc.edu/neistatoriginal.txt for proof of this.
7. My girlfriend and I both - and thousands of others - have first gen iPods over two years old that have no problems with the battery. The blanket statement that the batteries only last "18 months" is also false. Do the have a finite lifetime? Yes. Is it always, or even mostly, 18 months? Nope.
Disappointed,
Dave Schroeder
University of Wisconsin - Madison
das@doit.wisc.edu
http://das.doit.wisc.
608-265-4737
Seriousl, what's so great about the iPod? (Score:3, Informative)
So what does the iPod do that makes it worth more and require a more expensive battery? Is it just the firewire? Is it better at playing MP3s? Seriously, I'd like to know. I've never used an iPod, never even seen one up close, but the Archos does a hell of a job and I don't understand why people are willing to spend so much more on an iPod.
Wow, what wusses. (Score:5, Informative)
Recently, I did a battery replacement on my iPod. I wrote about it here [livejournal.com] in my journal.
For people who claim to be all for working on your own hardware, you're all getting pretty bitchy about performing a five-minute, three step process.
Oh, and my battery cost me half of what Apple is charging. So nyah.
Brand Sycophants (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're an Apple fan, that's fine, but making excuses for any shortcoming of their products doesn't help your cause. It's the people that complain about deficiencies that are most-likely to get the company to resolve these issues. If the sycophants get uppity at the slightest mention of a flaw, they do themselves and the object of their affection a great disservice.
This reminds me of another piece of audio equipment I purchased recently, and thought was very good. I found an online forum where enthusiasts discussed the product. When I discovered a bug in the product's firmware, a number of "locals" on the board engaged me in hostile argument that it wasn't a "bug." Eventually a rep from the company actually made a post and acknowledged the bug and promised to fix it in a future release. The sycophants harbored animosity towards me for not blindly, unconditionally accepting the product as it was. Think about this the next time something doesn't work right, and rally against the boneheads that harbor unconditional loyalty towards any corporate interest. It helps no one.
Re:Washington Post's slanted slant (Score:5, Insightful)
This is slanted *against* Apple as much as most Apple zealots are slanted *for* Apple, and it will all balance out in the end. Too many Applefans are prepared to push their favorite company to everyone, facts/figures be damned, and when something like this comes out, somehow the world is 'against' Apple. It's ridiculous.
And yes, I own a Mac.
Re:Washington Post's slanted slant (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple's been making a huge push to get businesses (outside of visual design and their other niche markets) to use their products, and I bought into it and recently purchased a 17" PowerBook G4 laptop to use for my consulting work. Since I purchased it (about four months ago,) it has failed twice, necessitating a mainboard replacement each time. However, Apple has no provision for on-site or even at-the-store replacement of notebook parts
Re:Washington Post's slanted slant (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course they're going to be snippy if you demand hardware replacement when they have no such program.
If I had purchased from Dell or Sony..
Dell would have had a person replace your system board the next day if you had bought the extended support program. This is not built into the machine base price with Dell, it's extra (and worth it).
Re:Washington Post's slanted slant (Score:3, Interesting)
The power supply goes out monthly on my gateway that is $WORK supplied.
Now, that the warranty's ran out on them...they're paying $300/incident for laptop repair.
Gateway won't do a damn thing about it.
Iroincally enough, it's happened with my home laptop (Gateway, as well), but, instead of paying for it once it went out of warranty (mind you, it had been in-service twice for the exact same thing), I just grabbed my info off of my hard drive, and I'm buying an alienware PC next year.
Re:Washington Post's slanted slant (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple's been making a huge push to get businesses (outside of visual design and their other niche markets) to use their products, and I bought into it and recently purchased a 17" PowerBook G4 laptop to use for my consulting work. Since I purchased it (about four months ago,) it has failed twice, necessitating a mainboard replacement each time. However, Apple has no provision for on-site or even at-the-store replacement of notebook parts,
Re:If you only have one, get a Mac. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh yeah we all know that apple uses the highest quality capacitors on thier motherboards. Thats what makes them so superior to PCs. I mean, its a good thing too, cos if the capacitors did go bad, Apple would tell me to Fuck off and buy another mac. To hell with ATX standards allowing me to swap out components and replace them individually. But back to the capacitors, we all know that the capacitors are what give the new G5 the extra bang.
And you know, you make a good point. Once an Apple gets old, you just throw it away! Don't even think about re-using it or recycling or anything like that. No need to worry, just toss it and drop another $5,000 on the next years model. Yeah those "Pee Cees" must have terrible components for them to last 8 years and still be able to pull them out of the trash and use them.
You fuckin asshat.
Re:Damn battery. (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless the reviewer can come up with recommendations for an all-in-one alternative to the iPod, it's a meaningless list. He appears to have simply taken several aspects of the iPod, and then individually come up with alternatives for each aspect. (without applying the same cited standards to th
Re:Why not use NiMH batteries? (Score:5, Insightful)
Bottom line: ANYTHING with un-attachable/proprietory batteries is a BAD thing and should be boycotted. Look at the difference between most Ipaq's and the Dell Axims. You can pay 700 clams for an Ipaq with a battery that is not really that easily replacable...Or you can buy an Axim that has an easily detachible battery. Buy a couple extra and don't worry about running out of juice.
This stuff is not desposible razor priced...we are talking electronics between $300 - $900 dollars...the consumer deserves better.