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Apple Businesses Software Linux

Yellow Dog Linux 3.0.1 Available for Download 64

Posted by pudge from the come-and-get-it dept.
macemoneta writes "Yellow Dog Linux 3.0.1 is now available for download, and includes HFS+ support with the 2.4.22-based kernel. Be nice and use a mirror!"
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Yellow Dog Linux 3.0.1 Available for Download More

Yellow Dog Linux 3.0.1 Available for Download

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  • Any experiences with Yellow Dog on iBook G4? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MrHanky ( 141717 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @08:14PM (#7644067) Homepage Journal
    My sister just got new iBook G4, and for some reason she wants to learn to use Linux, which means she wants me to teach her. I'm normally a Debian-guy, but I'm not sure I'd recommend her to use Woody (it'd have to use backports of XFree86 and more), and Sid is like a boot with a built-in shotgun for newbies, and Sarge is an annoying peace of slush.

    So maybe Yellow Dog is an option. However, I have no experience with it (I don't own any Apple hardware), and it seems to lack support for the Radeon 9200 in the iBook. Is this something I can expect to see RPMs for soon, or will I have to wait for the next release to get proper support for video? Any other problems with the distribution?
    • It should work fine, as X will most likely use the radeon dri module. I personally dual boot Gentoo on my iBook, but when I tried out Yellow Dog on it, it was awesome. Yellow Dog is just like Redhat ported to PPC and a little yellow dog instead of a red hat.

    • Re:Any experiences with Yellow Dog on iBook G4? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ElGanzoLoco ( 642888 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @08:36PM (#7644203) Homepage
      My sister just got new iBook G4, and for some reason she wants to learn to use Linux

      Okay, that's just my uninformed advice, but I *think* she'd be better off learning UNIX off OS X for starters...

      I mean, she can get accustomed to the shell, the basic UNIX apps (emacs, ssh...) the UNIX file hierarchy (/usr /bin /etc, etc...), learn some scripting, run X11 applications, and I think you can even install gnome on top of Darwin (not sure why you'd want to do that though).

      If it is really UNIX she wants to learn (and not linux in particular) then she has it right out of the box. If it's linux-linux, then start to show her how to use the terminal on OS X, which leaves you some weeks/months to choose the best distribution. :)

      As for linux PPC distribs... what I can say is that I tried to install Debian PPC on a standard G4, and that it didn't work out, even though I got help from a linux veteran.) Yellow dog is said to be nice, and there's supposed to be a gentoo PPC port too (?).
      I once tried to install yellow dog PPC on a performa (Old World, requires some tinkering). Got halfway through install and at some point it just put garbled the screen and displayed a fun message: "Kill -34 complete, you can now reboot." No need to say it couldn't reboot anymore :))

      • She's not much of a nerd, so I think she wants to learn Linux for cultural and political reasons. I think it's Linux as Linux she wants to learn, but I'll obviously point out the similarities and differences between OSX and Linux (not that I'm very familiar with the former myself). And there's always Mac-on-Linux if she wants to use both at the same time. Anyways, I think learning Linux will make her appreciate the Unix in OSX more, at least I'm pretty sure it'll do her no harm. A Knoppix for PPC would be n

          • Re:Any experiences with Yellow Dog on iBook G4? (Score:5, Informative)

            by MrHanky ( 141717 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @10:14PM (#7644771) Homepage Journal
            Sure. But it seems to be as old as the last Knoppix PPC. Come to think of it, since XFree86 4.3.0 has been out for quite some time, and doesn't support Mobile Radeon 9200, Gentoo would be the safest bet. XFree86 4.4.0-RC1 came out just two days ago, and Gentoo will be the only distro to support it for some time(I installed Gentoo on an SGI Indigo^2 a couple of days ago, and noticed there was some support for PPC in the pre-releases of XFree86 4.4.0. 4.3.0 still isn't in Debian Sid!). Apart from the live CD, Gentoo is far from the most newbie-friendly distro out there, though.

        • Re:Any experiences with Yellow Dog on iBook G4? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by ElGanzoLoco ( 642888 ) on Saturday December 06, 2003 @06:55AM (#7646729) Homepage
          You can partition the drives from the OS X installer CD, but not without erasing everything (Some commercial software probably does that, try searching google)You still can plug the iBook to your own PC through ethernet to back everything up prior to partitionning.

          As for your sister wanting to learn linux for *political* reasons: I've been myself confronted to a similar situation: that is, I'm currently abroad without my much beloved mac, so had to buy a PC, with windows on it. I loathe Microsoft, but I don't have access to anything else than dial-up, so I can't even download linux to give it a try! (+ I'm not sure I could manage to use linux without a bit of outside help). So I decided to find a middle ground: leave windows installed, and replace as much Microsoft software I could. Outlook got trashed for Thunderbird, Explorer for Firebird, MSN for GAIM, and so on...

          My point is, open source is cool and all, but I'm not sure it's good to have people give up on *usability* and ease of use just because the OS is GPL'd. (OS X is stil so much better than linux it makes no sense to trash it for linux) Mostly because this adds a somewhat disconforting "sect" aspect to the open source community. And being looked upon as a bunch of crazy fanatics is not so good (I'm a mac fan, I know what I'm talking about!!). And also because if she tries linux while it's still not easy enough for her (she's not a geek / nerd, you told), then she just might grow very frustrated with it, trash it, and never give it a shot ever again.

          If you're not familiar with OS X, what's good about it is its versatility. If you want to use it as a grandma-OS, you can. Buy mac, open case, switch on, there you have it. (I like to tell my friends, "you can use Mac OS X when drunk.")
          But you can also use it as an excessively geeky OS if you want to. They give you a nice terminal app, and it's plain-vanilla open-sourced BSD behind. X-11 is installed by default in panther. Fink [sourceforge.net] is the direct equivalent of apt-get, you can use it with or without a GUI... Makes installing the GIMP easy, among other things. Darwin Ports [opendarwin.org] does the same kind of job. A *lot* of open-source software has been ported (mPlayer / mozilla apps / open office / etc...), too.
          You can also boot OS X without the Aqua interface ("evil" because non-GPL'd) and install gnome (said to be tricky). With that many open source tools & software, you're in open-source/UNIX-land alright, imho. And if you grow tired of it, you can still go back to plain OS X. If she wants to try linux, then she should, but I have a very hard time figuring how replacing OS X by a linux desktop would be better for her in the end. (the steep price of apple hardware being mostly justified by the OS).

          Anyhow, I wish you -and her, mostly- good luck! :)

    • Re:Any experiences with Yellow Dog on iBook G4? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Doc Squidly ( 720087 ) on Saturday December 06, 2003 @05:33AM (#7646555)
      I recently help my friend install YD on his G5. I went off an article in Linux Format mag, (issue 39 or 41, if you can get it).
      The partitioning and formatting was a little different than on an x86 but, after that it was very similar to Redhat. Not surprising considering that YD is based on Redhat.
      Good luck.

    • Yellow Dog is great for learning Linux (Score:5, Informative)

      by Canyon Rat ( 103953 ) on Saturday December 06, 2003 @02:58PM (#7648890)
      I think Yellow Dog is a great Distro for learning Linux, mostly for non-technical reasons. It's a small distro that still has a sense of community. The lead developers can be found answering questions on the newbies list.

      Newbies leaning Linux are also well served starting with a Red Hatish distro because that's what they will encounter most out in the world.

      YDL also supports RPM, Apt-Get and Yum as package management tools so you can learn to master them all from one distro. Yum actually migrated from YDL to Fedora. I think it's the least painful package management system this side of OS X's drag and drop.
    • The vast majority of "Linux" that people want to learn has nothing to do with Linux itself, but all the OTHER stuff that comes with a distribution; ie: editors, programming, web/mail servers, etc. You can do all of that on a Mac with OS X and the developer tools installed. Jaguar now even supports some of the APIs from Linux, making even more Linux-only software compile without alteration under Darwin (the Unix core of OS X).

      Install OS X, and Fink and she'll have all the Apple GUI goodness, drivers for a

    • One word: fink (Score:3, Informative)

      by conan_albrecht ( 446296 )
      I'm a Debian die-hard as well, but I use OS X for my powerbook. I've installed YDL before and it is very nice.


      However, in your sister's situation, I'd install fink [sf.net] on the machine. Fink is a port of a good portion of the Unix programs in Linux, and it uses apt-get for its manager. It's very Debian-like. Plus you get to keep OS X.


      There's also a couple of other fink-like ports out there, but they're all in the process of merging.

      • I know about Fink, and it sounds interesting. But how well does it handle packages from various sources, i.e. Apple's own X11 is part of Panther, but Fink uses XFree86, doesn't it? I guess I'll look into it during the holidays. (My sister lives in another town, so I can't play with her iBook yet. But of course I'll install both Fink and Debian on it when I get the chance.)
        • It all works very well together. They've done an excellent job.

          For example, X11 has a full package (if installing from fink) as well as a "dummy" package you install if you install from Apple. The dummy package takes care of all dependency problems with other packages. I've got Apple's X11 installed, yet I've installed KDE, Gnome, and others from fink.

  • Upgradeable? (Score:5, Informative)

    by waldoj ( 8229 ) * <<waldo> <at> <jaquith.org>> on Friday December 05, 2003 @08:18PM (#7644110) Homepage Journal
    I was a die-hard YDL user from day one, buying copies from Terrasoft to support the company and even preordering 2.0. Imagine my surprise when I found that it was simply impossible to upgrade to 2.0 [terrasoftsolutions.com].

    They told me that I would have to back up my machine, wipe the hard drive, install anew, and then copy my data and configuration back over. I had just started my own business, and the system in question was my first Apple (and only computer at the time), a Rev. A Bondi iMac. With only USB ports and virtually no USB devices out there at the time, I didn't have any method of copying data off of the machine. Sure, it would be good practice to upgrade in the manner prescribed by Terrasoft, but for somebody like me, running a simple home SMTP and HTTP server, it ought not be required.

    I never did install YDL 2.0; the discs are still sitting in the box. I saved my pennies and bought an eMachine for $300 a couple of months later. I'm still using that machine as my basic home SMTP and HTTP server, and I haven't used a Mac as a server or run Linux on a Mac ever since. The iMac lives on in the home of my brother and his wife, running OS X.

    I've been looking to run Linux on my G3 iBook and my G4 Powermac, and I've tried Gentoo and SuSE thus far. I've been considering Yellowdog, but I'm not going to get back on that train if I'm just going to get screwed. Does anybody know if Terrasoft has cleaned up their act, and is now making it possible to upgrade between major releases?

    -Waldo Jaquith

    • Re:Upgradeable? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by IM6100 ( 692796 ) <elben@mentar.org> on Friday December 05, 2003 @11:04PM (#7645048)
      I rarely encourage people to adopt an 'upgrade' path unless the OS vendor has gone far out of their way to make 'upgrade' a viable and rigorously tested process. (sorry, Microsoft). But really, if you were running a Linux system, all your user data should have been well compartmentalized and it should be easy for you to do an upgrade to 2.0.

      To be frank, if your critical business data was that disk-bound, you were taking a heck of a lot of chances as it is, the way you were running your system.

      • Not Critical (Score:2, Interesting)

        by waldoj ( 8229 )
        To be frank, if your critical business data was that disk-bound, you were taking a heck of a lot of chances as it is, the way you were running your system.

        I can see that I was unclear. I only mentioned that I had just started my first (bootstrapped) business to indicate that I was poor. :) Christ, no, I didn't host anything important on an iMac sitting on a desk in my apartment. :)

        The Yellow Dog Linux server was just for my personal SMTP (not mail storage) and websites (nothing exciting or crucial), pl

  • The recent Debian attack... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HoldmyCauls ( 239328 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @09:24PM (#7644474) Journal
    ...happened on a 2.4.22 kernel -- and not on processor-specific code. Be sure to update to 2.4.23 *immediately* after installation!!!

  • YDL and Debian. (Score:5, Informative)

    by saintlupus ( 227599 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @10:43PM (#7644933)
    I tried to do a minimal install of Yellow Dog 3.0 a while ago. On the very first apt-get dist-upgrade, there were unresolved dependencies. I hadn't installed anything except the bare minimum off of the install CDs, and the tree was already FUBAR. Anyone else seen this happen?

    Anyway, I ended up using Debian/PPC on the iBook instead. So it doesn't really matter. But YDL seems to be pretty easily broken if you choose anything but the "all that and the kitchen sink" option from the installer.

    --saint

    • Re:YDL and Debian. (Score:3, Informative)

      by theIG ( 647290 )
      while yellowdog does include apt-for-rpm, they do not fully support it. That is, they prefer you to use their own, similar solution. It's called yum, and while I (like you) would still prefer apt, yum is still capable, and get's the job done right out of the box.
      One annoyance that I have is that each and every time you install or upgrade a package with yum, it downloads the latest package headers from their mirrors ( similar to `apt-get update`). But since it's written in python, that can be easily changed
      • while yellowdog does include apt-for-rpm, they do not fully support it. That is, they prefer you to use their own, similar solution. It's called yum, and while I (like you) would still prefer apt, yum is still capable, and get's the job done right out of the box.

        I was under the impression that Yum stopped being the official update mechanism after 2.3, and was replaced by apt for the 3.0 series. I guess I was mistaken.

        It is sort of surprising that their "bare bones" install option would include an unsupp
        • I was under the impression that Yum stopped being the official update mechanism after 2.3, and was replaced by apt for the 3.0 series. I guess I was mistaken. It is sort of surprising that their "bare bones" install option would include an unsupported package management system, though.
          You are thinking of Yup, Yum is Yellow dog Updater Modified. It's new and improved.

  • Already have downloaded it two weeks ago (Score:4, Informative)

    by zpok ( 604055 ) on Friday December 05, 2003 @10:58PM (#7645019) Homepage
    The post should have been "YDL Linux now available for download through Enhanced.net, the YDL paid webspace/support/membershipthingy service."

    If you want to download for free, there are many good mirrors available. Just go to the linuxhelp website [linuxhelp.net] (this page has links to all iso's out there for every distribution available) which is btw an excellent starting point for newbies like myself...

    • The new release was available weeks ago through the paid service. The post was to let folks know that the new version is now available for free download. Yellowdog typically makes new releases available to paying subscribers before releasing the software to the general public.
      • Oops, I didn't pay.

        Just went to one of the mirrorlinks and started downloading. That release btw was available on the three downloadsites I visited - for free.

        So you may be right, but anybody looking for it would have been able to get it for free regardless.

  • Interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by scottblascocomposer ( 697248 ) on Saturday December 06, 2003 @01:58AM (#7645890) Homepage
    It's odd to see this just now, considering that I downloaded 3.0.1 weeks ago. Does nobody else around here use YDL, or it just the first time anyone submitted?

    Weird...

  • YDL compared to others (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BibelBiber ( 557179 ) on Saturday December 06, 2003 @05:49AM (#7646592)
    When I still used 10.1 cause I couldnt affort Jaguar I thought it might be somehow useful to have instead a up to date Linux. I remember my old PC days when I ran Suse on my machines and everything was fine and easy to install and configure and use. Okay I thought same should apply to Apple hardware. But everything I tried kinda failed from the first minute. Gentoo run really smooth but updating on an iBook 500 was just to much. 2 days compiling for KDE and Xfree was too long, Mandrake was kinda messy with its firewall and sometimes didnt exactly do what I told it to do. Then I tried YDL. Worst part in my Distro checking. Absolutely no configuration possible. No easy software updating. At least nothing as easy as I used to know under Suse. So I finally got my Panther and have Fink installed. No more Linux on my partitions.
    • Absolutely no configuration possible
      That would be except for all the Redhat config tools and the standard config files for everything. Have you ever used Linux before?

      No easy software updating.
      apt and yum.

      I've just upgraded Mozilla on my YDL box using:

      $ sudo yum update mozilla

      Not very difficult at all.
  • I've been looking for a *nix to run on an old 7200 that I got for free, and was about to settle on Debian. YDL hadn't even occured to me, since I didn't think it went that far back. Now that I know that YDL will run on my old box, I'm snarfing it down and seeing what will happen.
    • I've been looking for a *nix to run on an old 7200 that I got for free, and was about to settle on Debian.

      YDL runs pretty well on one of those. I have a 7200/120 sitting under a desk in here somewhere that I was running YDL 3.0 on for a while.

      BootX is an undocumented pain in the ass, as I recall, but aside from that it works fine.

      --saint

  • YDL 3.0.1 on iBook 2 (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Been running YDL 3.0.1 on an iBook 2 (the nice looking white ones, not the crappy clamshell) for some time. Right out of the box it did everything I wanted it to...the buttons raise/lower volume, it goes to sleep when I close the lid, etc etc. Being a Gentoo user on my x86 I am used to the wonders of emerge and the equally wonderful wonders of compiling from source, so no programs have thus far been a program on my iBook. Everything from gaim to mozilla I've just grabbed the tarball for, let it compile,

  • Moof! (Score:1)

    by csoto ( 220540 )
    Oh wait... Wrong dog!

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