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Media (Apple) Businesses Media Upgrades Apple

Windows Firmware Update 1.3 Added 124

Posted by pudge from the petition-vs-happy-to-see-me-pick-one-now-puny-human dept.
TechnoPope writes "Apple has finally released the 1.3 Updater for older Windows iPods. It claims UI improvements and longer battery life, but the much desired and asked for on the fly playlist feature is absent. It should also be noted that there is a web petition asking for new firmware for the older generations of iPods." It's a shame that older iPod owners have to live with the functionality that was advertised to them when they bought it.
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Windows Firmware Update 1.3 Added More

Windows Firmware Update 1.3 Added

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  • Haha (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Wuffle ( 651894 )
    Fat lot of use an online petition will do.

    Anyways, if the new features are so damn important to you buy a new iPod, quit whining.
    • Actually, I created a throwaway address specifically for use with an online petition. If you sign one, expect spam--lots of spam.

  • How is this a shame? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EvlG ( 24576 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:18PM (#6562017)
    Being an owner of 20GB touchpad iPod, I have been waiting for this update to come out for months, ever since it was announced as soon back in May. I want the battery life and sound improvements it promises.

    I don't expect Apple to give me more features for free. After all that is why they are selling the new product. I would have loved it, sure, but I don't fault them for it.

    To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

  • Hmm (Score:5, Informative)

    by CptChipJew ( 301983 ) * <michaelmiller@gmail . c om> on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:21PM (#6562055) Journal
    I don't recall Apple ever advertising on-the-fly playlists as a feature for the old iPod. They didn't even talk about it until the new iPod came out.

    The on-the-fly playlists and new games are features that are part of the new iPod only, and I'm pretty sure they'll never be added to the old iPod. That's just how it is.

    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Informative)

      by WCityMike ( 579094 )
      I don't recall Apple ever advertising on-the-fly playlists as a feature for the old iPod. They didn't even talk about it until the new iPod came out.

      The on-the-fly playlists and new games are features that are part of the new iPod only, and I'm pretty sure they'll never be added to the old iPod. That's just how it is.

      That was his point. He was being sarcastic.

      *whooooooooooooooooooooooosh*

      • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)

        by WatertonMan ( 550706 )
        The problem with that kind of sarcasm is that it overlooks all the many, many whiners who actually think that way.

        That's why I gave up on sarcasm on the net. Whenever you say something you think no one would take seriously you find people do. Then you find out that the reason they take you seriously is because there are people who actually believe such ridiculous nonsense. It's just that somehow I never meet them in regular life. Only on the net.

        I'm not sure what to make of this. It almost makes m

        • that is why you employ the use of "verbal meaning" tags. Many common ones are as such:

          /rant

          /sarcasm

          /troll and

          /im a normal /. user who has never read the articles before posing in my life. while the last one is not used as explicitly, it is easily inferred by accounting for their user no. and the amount of asinine content in their post.

        • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Funny)

          by carpe_noctem ( 457178 )
          That's why I gave up on sarcasm on the net. Whenever you say something you think no one would take seriously you find people do.

          Are you being sarcastic here? I can't tell!

  • uhh... (Score:1, Redundant)

    by asteinberg ( 521580 )
    It's a shame that older iPod owners have to live with the functionality that was advertised to them when they bought it.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding something, shouldn't that be "without"?? Seems like a pretty ridiculous statement otherwise.

    • Re:uhh... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by gsabin ( 657664 )
      ummm...no....I think it is called sarcasm...

    • Re:uhh... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, "with" is appropriate. It's a sarcastic dig at the "my purchase of a product with a clearly defined feature set entitles me to all improvements and enhancements future iterations bring to the product line in perpetuity till I die" crowd that most recently regained prominence when Apple made the mistake of not charging full price to update to OS X.1. Apparently buying an Apple product once makes Apple your vassal for all eternity.

    • You're misunderstanding something. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wirelessbuzzers ( 552513 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:42PM (#6562411)
      It's a sarcastic statement. The older iPod never had that feature and never advertised it, and now that it's in the newer ones, the owners of the older iPods are petitioning Apple to backport it.

      Apple doesn't have any real reason to do so. It'd be nice PR to add the feature, but not adding it is incentive to buy a new iPod. Although I don't own an iPod, I personally think they should add it for PR reasons (it makes the company look friendly, improves people's view of the quality of its products, etc). Who knows whether they will.

      That said, pudge is still being an asshole. When users request a new feature in a project, the developers should either reject it for a reason (even if that reason is "No, we want you to upgrade"), or put it on the to-do list. What they shouldn't do, and what bystanders especially shouldn't do, is sarcastically slag those users because they got what they paid for.
    • Whoops - serves me right for posting before noon. Guess I'm the dumb one here. Disregard the parent, please.

  • Its a shame, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NetCurl ( 54699 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:25PM (#6562113)
    I really don't simpathize with the older iPod owners. It was the functionality offered at the time of purchase. If you are really itching for a the functionality, you have a couple options...

    1) When the new 30GB came out, I sold my 20GB touch-wheel for almost $225. That made the 30GB 'upgrade' almost nothing. A lot of people with pay $200 for a 20GB MP3 player that is still better than all the competition, and acts like a tiny Firewire disk.

    2) Complain, sign petitions, and try to get Apple to change policy.

    3) Be content in the fact that you still have a 20GB MP3 player that is really cool, and sounds good. It is still better than what the other companies are offering currently, and you'll get many more years of life from it.

    4) Shell out the cash and give the used 20GB iPod as a gift to a friend/relative.

    • almost nothing? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:53PM (#6562566)
      The 30Gb iPod is $500. So youy're saying roughly $275 -- more than you got for your 20GB model -- is "almost nothing." Not to mention that the older 20GB model probably cost you around $500.

      And by the way I have the older 20GB model and I plan to keep it. We don't need no steenkin' on the fly playlists! Real men listen to all the songs on their iPod in alphabetical order without taking breaks!!
      • Hell, I have the orig 5 and while the thought of playlists on the fly is nice, for the most part I just put my baby on random and let it go to town. The only thing I would fix if I could would be to have the non-rotating thumbwheel (since mine is getting a bit crusty from so much use), and no firmware update is going to fix that.

    • Re:Its a shame, but... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      There's a version of Linux for the iPod [sourceforge.net]. Perhaps some of the people signing the petitions should see if they can write their own firmware using the system. Then they'll not be dependent on Apple for new functionality...
      • i believe there are several hundred posts to this tune. It has been out for several months now and the firmware is rather solid on this little machine and being "dependent" on apple is not too bad. they try to keep up with problems as much as possible and do well at it. Yah, it is the stuff that was publicized, get over it. that is what you payed for and nothing more.

    • Re:Its a shame, but... (Score:5, Funny)

      by avalys ( 221114 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @03:34PM (#6563090)
      When the new 30GB came out, I sold my 20GB touch-wheel for almost $225.

      Hee hee hee...
      When the new 30GB came out, I sold my 10GB iPod for $250.

    • It is still better than what the other companies are offering currently, and you'll get many more years of life from it.

      That's your opinion. After using an iPod for the last six months I'm going back to a first-generation Nomad Jukebox which I had before getting an iPod. The iPod only has two advantages in my opinion; It's small and the firewire makes for faster transfers. I don't like the UI on the iPod as much as I like the Nomad's UI. Because of the scroll wheel, you can't operate the iPod withou

    • I bought a 20 G ipod in January, and never bothered to sell it and buy the 30 G model.

      It does what it is supposed to do, and I don't see it lacking any features I'd want it to have in it (or which woudl be in the new models).

      I am still completely happy with it.

  • Reason... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zifnab32 ( 592169 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:27PM (#6562144)
    The head of the iPod software group, I can't remember his name now though, gave a session at MacHack [mackhack.com] this year, and the subject of bringing the latest firmware enhancements to the older iPods was discussed.

    He basically said "no way."

    the reasons he gave for this were:
    1. Push new iPods - because Apple likes money.
    2. Reduce testing expenses - because every update needs to be tested on every version of the iPod, which would have added 5 models (including a silent rev of the original 5-gig) to the three they have to test now.
    3. Money from 2 better spent adding even more features to latest iPods.

    Oh, and the next iPod game is going to be Doom 3, with network games over BlueTooth.

    • Aparently I use a Mackintosh computer...

      The correct link is MacHack [machack.com]

    • the reasons he gave for this were:
      1. Push new iPods - because Apple likes money.

      Oh well, I guess that's why Apple is always just struggling along. Unhappy customers are less likely to spend money. Make them euphoric about their purchases and they'll keep opening their wallet.

      I don't think Apple should update indefinitely, but if you give a customer a little more than they expected (at minimal expense to Apple) it builds trust -- something Apple sorely needs after a decade of floundering.

      It's just

      • I don't think Apple should update indefinitely, but if you give a customer a little more than they expected (at minimal expense to Apple) it builds trust

        Be fair. On-the-fly playlists would be nice but it's hardly a must-have. Upgrading my old 5GB iPod to be able to play AAC files is a very big deal and I am thrilled that I can play them without buying a new player or paying for an update. It sounds like Apple is wisely allocating their resources. That's just good business. Floundering, indeed!

      • Oh well, I guess that's why Apple is always just struggling along. Unhappy customers are less likely to spend money.

        Yeah, Apple is really beleaguered. They're dying I tell you!

    • "Oh, and the next iPod game is going to be Doom 3, with network games over BlueTooth."

      Yes, i know you are joking....

      Bluetooth, if correctly used, could be awesome for syncing with your mac/windows box or even better, stream music to 'local' ipods within range, similar to how iTunes lets you stream music to other users on the same network.

      And doom 3? no. but a first person shooter, like the orignal doom, wirrten the right way could be playable on the ipod. using the scroller to turn, and the 4 buttons for
      • The big problem with a FPS or anything fast on the iPod is the screen. The refresh rate is too low. It can't even keep up with breakout, it draws three balls on every pass.

    • Re:Reason... (Score:3, Informative)

      by drsmithy ( 35869 )
      Reduce testing expenses - because every update needs to be tested on every version of the iPod, which would have added 5 models (including a silent rev of the original 5-gig) to the three they have to test now.

      Microsoft manage to test Windows and various other applications with thousands of pieces of hardware and hundreds of combinations thereof. I find it mind boggling anyone would suggest Apple are incapable of efficiently testing a miniscule number of hardware platforms with software of very limited fu

      • Re:Reason... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Zifnab32 ( 592169 )
        He wasn't saying that it would be impossible to do, just that it saves them a large percentage on testing, and that that money is better spent on adding new features to the new iPods.

        Anyway, how many pieces of consumer electronics have as many features added to them as the iPod has? I bought my 2nd gen 10 gig as soon as it came out, since then I have had a clock, address book and a calendar added, along with the biggie, AAC support. How many other MP3 players have had as many software upgrades distribu

      • Microsoft manage to test Windows and various other applications with thousands of pieces of hardware and hundreds of combinations thereof.

        Yeah, and look what a piece of crap Windows is...

      • Re:Reason... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by SandSpider ( 60727 )
        No, in fact Reason #2 is the absolute best reason of the three. It takes a lot of money to test. Whereas Microsoft can, get this, sell new copies to windows on older machines, Apple cannot sell the ipod update for older ipods. In fact, they would have to spend the money testing in order to give the product away. This is the opposite of making money, and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

        Also, and I know I'm clearly in the minority here, but I don't believe that Windows is actually a rock solid OS that works s

      • You are really confusing the issue here.
        The iPod is an appliance, you know, a machine that's supposed to work - always, not just when the planets are in alignment.
        Put plainly, the iPod is a toaster. It's supposed to make toast. Your computer is an artist. On good days it performs. We live with that.
        Making A Great Toaster(tm) is both simpler and harder to do.
        While it doesn't have to perform as many tasks as a computer, it needs to do what it can with ease and elegance, and especially, it needs to do it every
      • Microsoft manage to test Windows and various other applications with thousands of pieces of hardware and hundreds of combinations thereof.

        Oh, so that's why it works so well! Oh wait, I forgot. No written sarcasm. [slashdot.org]

  • We're too "upgrade happy" (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:59PM (#6562656) Journal
    Seriously, people seem to think upgrades should be free or available to anything and everything. It's almost reminding me of all the hubub about the other updates too. You get 300 new features and you're shocked you may have to pay for them?

    Back to the main point though...You buy a Maxima. It has it's list of features. Then the new one comes out with new features (better speakers? better seat adjustments? better cup holders?). We don't expect Nissan to say "bring your car in and we'll 'upgrade' to all the new features for free". You can buy the new Maxima. You can buy a better stereo and install it. You can be happy with the features that came with your car. Your 2001 Maxima is still better than the 2002 Sonatas that are out there.
    • Since the OS upgrade debate is being brought into this, let's just point out: many people aren't saying they want it free, they'd just appreciate a slight discount. Even a $30 upgrade discount'd bring the price down to $99, which is far more palatable ... especially for 10.3, which from all accounts and purposes isn't going to have half the improvements that 10.2 did over 10.1. Hell, even the dreaded M$ offers upgrade pricing for their OS. Surely it's in Apple's interests ...

    • Re:We're too "upgrade happy" (Score:4, Insightful)

      by localman ( 111171 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @04:37PM (#6563887) Homepage
      We don't expect Nissan to say "bring your car in and we'll 'upgrade' to all the new features for free".

      No, but you'd expect it to be possible to pay a fair price for new speakers and install them. If the new features on the iPod were somehow beyond the abilities of the old machine nobody would feel slighted.

      If apple offered the new software for a fair price ($20?) most people would be fine with that. But as it is they are not providing the customers what they want at a price the customer accepts when it is obviously possible to do so.

      Their motivation is to try to get more money from the customers than they are willing to spend. Does Apple have the right to do this? Of course. But it's stupid of them.

      I would be glad to give them $20 for this, but instead I give them nothing. And if I had gotten the upgrade (for pay or free) I'd be unlikely to even consider another type of mp3 player in the future. As it is I will check my options, since I know that other companies give you goodies like firmware upgrades.

      Cheers.
    • "You buy a Maxima. It has it's list of features. Then the new one comes out with new features (better speakers? better seat adjustments? better cup holders?). We don't expect Nissan to say "bring your car in and we'll 'upgrade' to all the new features for free". You can buy the new Maxima. You can buy a better stereo and install it. You can be happy with the features that came with your car. Your 2001 Maxima is still better than the 2002 Sonatas that are out there. "

      I am really sick of people using metaph

  • Sensitivity Love Understanding Appreciation (Score:5, Funny)

    by kolombangara ( 419845 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @04:13PM (#6563610)
    That's all us Classic iPod'rs want. We at one time not so long ago had been wooed, courted, impressed, flirted, tickled, aroused by funny talking nerds on Quicktime ads, then #$&-BaBAAM! bitch-slapped and Koby'd in the rear.

    The cries you hear are only emotional outburst, not a demand for personal programmers on each of our iPods perpetually, really because, what part of the interface needs improvements? Not 1.3.
    1.3(not to be confused with 1.3) is fine. It is void of that commercial interface, thank goodness.

    The Classic iPod ruled the world. It was the darling of the rodeo. It had all that class. It was neat-0.

    Early 2003, the iPod was given plastic surgery, admittingly better than Christina Applegates, and shoved along into the big world, fending for itself, lacking the original charm. Now it's specifically designed to withdraw finances from the owners like a high maintenance fake boobied hustler.

    I'll take a Classic iPod anyday! Update all you want you wannabe New iPod'rs, you still lack the one single thing that matters, a sense of free love and happiness, that which sadly was used by it's pimps to beget this hideous PayTunes4 monster. Toil New iPod with your excessive wires, cables, games, address books, calendars, proprietary formats, Windows software and docking station assemblies, not to mention the pretentiousness that is overbearing, while riding on the laurels of the Classic.

    I'll keep my old Classic, you can continue updating your 'New' Apple mp3 Player with the latest "New and Improved" methodical software and watch your money slip away even faster than ever before; the money all goes to the largest demographic of longhaired dope fiends, queers & draft dodging musicians and entertainment executives.

    Long live the iPod Classic - King of ALL MP3 players, yes, it still reigns over Apples new model mp3 player.

    • the money all goes to the largest demographic of longhaired dope fiends, queers & draft dodging musicians and entertainment executives.

      wow.. you must have really hated WWDC 2003.
      with the iChat AV video conference with France and Gore and all..
      nader was in there too!

      you think being an apple fan would say something about folks...then again wasn't Rush Limbaugh a mac fan??

      but at the end of the day your enthusiasm for the last generation has more to do with you not having the late

  • It depends if the iPod is a computer or not (Score:5, Insightful)

    by amichalo ( 132545 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @05:30PM (#6564437)
    It all depends if the iPod is seen as a consumer elecronic device - a TV, home stereo, alarm clock - or a computer.

    This makes a big difference because a computer implies the ability to manage the software it runs, including the OS. If Apple decided panther would not be supported on my PowerBook G4 you better believe I would be livid - but that I don't have enough video ram to use Quartz Extream is a "sucks for me" situation. It doesn't cause an uproar becuase people are used to upgrading computer software until there are hardware limitations.

    But back to the iPod, it evokes an interesting issue. If the iPod was marketed as a device capable of firmware upgrades (that were expected to be released by the manufacturer, just as software is released) then it should live up to that promiss and support the upgrades. Of course they need not be free unless stipulated they would be.

    To conclude: If the iPod is a consumer electronic device, then quit the complaining and realize you enjoyed your iPod more an a year longer than those who just bought one. If it is a computer than it should be able to have software upgraded, fee determined by manufacturer, as long as the hardware is capable. That is the modem we IT people are used to. Don't screw it up.
    • It all depends if the iPod is seen as a consumer elecronic device - a TV, home stereo, alarm clock - or a computer.

      This is the big question, isn't it? Let's see if we can extrapolate from a few non-computer devices that I have had personal experience upgrading:

      My modem was purchased with the K56Flex protocol in it. Later on, I got a firmware upgrade to v.90 - which was promised when I originally bought the thing. But they're not offering me an upgrade to v.92 protocol. (Of course, ever since I got

      • This is the big question, isn't it? Let's see if we can extrapolate from a few non-computer devices that I have had personal experience upgrading

        I've been livid about the upgrade ever since the first new iPods came out - I'm dying to get rating on the go, as I use my iPod to listen to review new CDs, and have to mark tracks so I can find them again later from the sea of sounds.

        But this is the first post in that whole time that has convinced me I'm wrong. The 10-year-old in me still sniffs that they cou

  • But the older iPods *did* get feature upgrades (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @05:33PM (#6564457) Homepage Journal
    When I got my 5GB iPod, it didn't have any contacts, a clock, calendars, iSync support, EQ support, sound check support, album shuffle, or a browse menu. I got all that (and probably more) and an update that improves my battery life for free.

    What's the bitchin' about again?
  • who don't care if their 2G iPods can use On the Fly Playlists, or whatever. I don't even use playlists.

  • Wishful thiniing (Score:2, Insightful)

    by am46n ( 615794 )
    1. Apple never promised "on the go" playlists for 2.0 iPods. To be honest they're not that great; there is only one "on the go" playlist, and it gets reset when you dock the pod.

    2. Apple couldn't provide the funcionality even if they wanted to. The OS development for the 2.0 iPods was contracted out. It'd make no business sense for Apple to contract out an update/rewrite. People forget that in a capitalist economy, the firm in the marketplace must make a profit to survive.

    The 2.0 iPod is a completely dif
    • Of course they didn't promise it, but it sure would be nice if they made it happen. I'm not planning to upgrade in any case, but I'd gladly pay $10 for this functionality. Any hackers want to try it?
  • Apple is currently offering a $200 discount on iPods [apple.com] for educational users who buy a Powerbook or iBook ($300 if you get a qualifying printer). Through my edu vendor that meant a $1099 900MHZ/CD-RW iBook for my wife and a $69 iPod for me. Your pricing may vary.
  • It's a shame that older iPod owners have to live with the functionality that was advertised to them when they bought it.

    LOL! As snitty irony goes, the Swedish Judges give that a 9.2

    Look, mod me down for dissenting, but it has to be said. The question is not, "Did you get what you paid for, and if you did, why are you spoiling my perfect Stepford Wife day with your complaints?" If it were, the answer, as the petitioners see it, would be a qualified "Well, sorta, but..."

    The real question is why one set

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