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Apple Businesses Software Linux

How to Use Your iPod Under Linux 217

Posted by pudge from the mp3-ing-into-the-new-year dept.
Jon writes "For those lucky readers who received an iPod for Christmas I've put up an article on LinuxLookup.com on how I got my iPod working under Linux. I've given a little overview on the different options available, and which one worked best for my needs. All in all, I'm extremely happy with the outcome. I can transfer my music, create playlists, and add all of my contacts. The only thing missing is a nice GUI."
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How to Use Your iPod Under Linux More

How to Use Your iPod Under Linux

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  • iPod (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:09PM (#4988951)
    I don't know about you, but I was planning on being evil with my iPod. Pirating music, harvesting the Anarchists Cookbook, etc. Naturally I wouldn't do this under any other operating system.

  • "All that is missing is a nice GUI" (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:10PM (#4988954)
    Is that for Linux, or for the iPod??? ;-)
  • I didn't get an iPod, I got an Archos 20 Recorder. Records directly into the devide through various inputs and it records into MP3! I love it!!!! Does the iPod let you record? I'm just curious.. I haven't used an iPod

    • Re:No iPod (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      iPod can't record

    • Been over this... (Score:5, Informative)

      by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:26PM (#4989102)
      I put up this iPod Comparison [kentidwell.com] Chart/site for those looking to compare the iPod with other hd based players.

      While it hasn't been updated since the 20gb units w/remote came out, it does allow for review of more elements than most buyers ever consider (also tips, links and related trivia).

      Bottom line...FireWire is the only way to go (transfers and charging), and at 7 oz., an iPod will truly fit in your pocket. And yes, the new remote is backwards compatible...just be sure to update your iPod.

      • your site is way out of date (Score:5, Informative)

        by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @01:42PM (#4989653)
        Both Archos and Creative have entirely new product lines out there. Some Archos drives are much sleeker and more capable and support both FireWire and USB2 (as well as MPEG4 video and audio).

        The Creative Nomad Zen is sleek and small, and supports both FireWire and USB, as well as recharging through USB.That alone makes it a much better choice for Linux users than the iPod. It also seems to have somewhat better battery life, and it supports recording.

        • My site doesn't waste time listing products that aren't for sale and may never exist. I waited all year for Nomad to release something besides a press release. I finally stopped waiting...they are too late to the party, and now they've missed the 2002/03 Christmas shopping season.

          From the Nomad site: "available soon"...how lame is that?

          Besides, I love it when Nomad and Archos L-users whine :)
          • My site doesn't waste time listing products that aren't for sale and may never exist. [...] From the Nomad site: "available soon"...how lame is that?

            The only thing that's lame is your excuses. The Nomad Zen and the entire Archos product line have been at our local electronics store for a while. And if you bothered to check PriceGrabber.COM or similar sites, you'd see that, while some companies are sold out due to Xmas, several still have them in stock. Reviews on Amazon.com go back to October 23.

            Besides, I love it when Nomad and Archos L-users whine :)

            And that's your excuse for putting out inaccurate and outdated information?

  • iPod again? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    20GB iPod: $499 20GB Nomad Zen: $299 (w/rebate) Apple is smoking crack on the iPod pricing. The 5GB one should be no more than $99-$149. How much can a 5GB hard drive cost these days? $15 on eBay?

    • Re:iPod again? (Score:5, Funny)

      by rigga ( 600504 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:25PM (#4989093)
      Wow, Ill bet you just saved Apple millions. They prolly never thought that they could purchase the hundreds of thousands 5GB drives needed for iPods on Ebay. Stupid Apple, Why buy drives directly from manufactures at huge discounts when you can purchase them from Frank in Winsconsin who has 3 5gb drives for sale. Hmm, now they just need 999,997 more. Any more brilliant ideas?

    • Re:iPod again? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Toraz Chryx ( 467835 ) <jamesboswell@btopenworld.com> on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:27PM (#4989113) Homepage
      Find me a 5GB >>>1.8" Toshiba harddisk on ebay (or otherwise) for $15 and I'll eat my hat.

      The price/capacity is even worse for the IBM Microdrive, but I'd rather stick one of those in my camera than a 120GB WD1200JB

    • Re:iPod again? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm sure Apple buys all of their hard drives off of Ebay.
    • There are laws against selling used parts in 'new' equipment. And remember that these drives aren't big assed 3 1/2" drives. They ain't even 2 1/2 laptop drives. The iPod uses tiny little PC Card drives that aren't cheap.

  • slashdotted? (Score:2, Informative)

    by kernkopje ( 414100 )
    Site appears to be slashdotted already? What's the point in submitting your self-authored article
    to a community that you can expect to hammer your server into oblivion?

    Sigh.

  • Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Spencerian ( 465343 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:18PM (#4989033) Homepage Journal
    There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware.

    It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac. Their move to Mac OS X would be contradictory to such a philosophy since *nix is a widely supported and tinkerable OS.

    The iPod is mostly a glorified FireWire drive, so this software doesn't impress me as much as the relative enthusiasm of developers to make it work. Even if you don't use it, Mac OS X and the iPod is a nice catalyst for a drab, uninventive computer industry at the moment.
    • There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware.

      So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

      It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac

      No it isn't. Otherwise why are Apple buying up app vendors (I don't recall the name of the product i'm thinking of, some graphics/music program), and scaring all the customers silly because they think Apple will make them Mac only?

      Their move to Mac OS X would be contradictory to such a philosophy since *nix is a widely supported and tinkerable OS.

      Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way. Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

      • Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nullard ( 541520 ) <{nullprogram} {at} {voicesinmyhead.cc}> on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:41PM (#4989211) Journal
        So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

        Here [apple.com] is proof to the contrary. It took them a while, but Apple did release a Windows compatible iPod.

        Even Dell [macworld.com] sells them [dell.com].

        You must have missed the announcemnt a few months ago.

        Anyway, the Mac version just uses HFS. There are 3rd party HFS readers for *nix and Windows. I don't know if they were reverse engineered or created from Apple specs.

        Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way.

        If you ignore the fact that you can recompile the kernel and change most OS variables using XML plists and NetInfo, you are absolutely correct. If I ignore my need for oxygen I can breathe in space too.
        • The windows compatible iPod is simply an iPod with a FAT32 harddisk iirc, they didn't release any official Windows software for it, nor do they support it.

          HFS is not what was reverese engineered, the on disk catalog format was not documented. You can't just add an MP3 to the iPod disk, you have to update the database as well.

          If you ignore the fact that you can recompile the kernel and change most OS variables using XML plists and NetInfo, you are absolutely correct. If I ignore my need for oxygen I can breathe in space too.

          plists and NetInfo are hardly customization tools. They are minor tweaks at best. Even the Windows registry does much better than that, and of course this is nothing compared to what can be tweaked if you have the source, or can replace layers of the OS at will.

          • ...they didn't release any official Windows software for it, nor do they support it.
            Actually, Apple did release "official Windows software" for the iPod and it is supported.

            The really nice thing is being able to plug the iPod into a Mac, transfer files to the iPod, then plug it into a PC and transfer files from the iPod. It is this kind of flexability that made be buy the Windows version , even though my primary machine is a Mac.

          • Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days (Score:5, Funny)

            by SensitiveMale ( 155605 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @02:40PM (#4990058)
            Even the Windows registry does much better than that

            Well, that is the first time I have ever read anyone praising the registry.

            That damn registry is the worst thing ms ever came out with, including Bob.
      • Sure...Apple doesn't publish anything else but a gray version of aqua. They're proud of their interface and want everyone to use it. So what? You can download/create your own themes if you'd like.

        Check out the 3rd-party utilities and web sites to get what you'd like:

        Are the themes as varied yet as something like Kaleidoscope [kaleidoscope.net] allowed on pre OS X? Of course not. But the appearance themes aren't near as limited as you think.

      • Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SensitiveMale ( 155605 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @01:16PM (#4989454)

        So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

        mmm, go to www.dell.com and buy an iPod for windows by ..... wait for it .... Apple. Or buy an iPod for windows by Apple. Or do you consider the manufacturer of the iPod a third party?

        Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way. Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

        I could list half a dozen OS X theme managers AND a few dozen themes. Sure, there a lots more for windows but OS X has been around much less time than Stardock.

        As for the "OS X isn't tinkerable at all' look at the hundreds of programs that 'tinker' with OS X. Fruitmenu, XSounds, WindowShadeX, ASM, CeePeeYou, A-Dock, Synergy, and tons of other cursor, menu items, haxies, and other enhancements.

        And if you want a full cocoa Finder you can get Path Finder from cocoatech.com.

        Just because you don't have the source code of OS X doesn't mean that you can't tinker with it to your heart's content.
      • No it isn't. Otherwise why are Apple buying up app vendors (I don't recall the name of the product i'm thinking of, some graphics/music program), and scaring all the customers silly because they think Apple will make them Mac only?

        You may be thinking of Shake.

        Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way.

        Hogwash. Just because it's closed-source doen't mean it's not tinkerable. Perhaps not to the extent you'd like, but really, how many end users hack the source code of their GUI? OSX has a ways to go, but it's quickly becoming more hackable than OS9 ever was, and if you don't think OS9 was hackable, well, you haven't known many Mac users.

        Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

        Hogwash. I'm using a third-party theme right now. It happens to be an imitation of the Platinum theme from Mac OS 9, because that's what I happen to like, but there are others. Not a huge number of themes available, but it's a relatively new OS. They'll come.

        And yes, this Platinum theme [webwizardry.net] is a little quirky - it's got a funny little piece of something at the top of the scrollbar, no window borders, and a few other details aren't quite right. And, I've combined it with the Mozilla Classic theme from Mac OS 9, which is even quirkier with the OSX version of Mozilla. I'll probably go back to Modern. Anyway, like I said, give it time.
      • OhMiGod! No 3rd party themes for my iMac!!!

        Now there's a problem I'll stay up nights fretting about.
      • Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").
        • Duality 3.1 [conundrumsoft.com] - "Scheme" switcher for MacOS X (you say theme, we say scheme, I have no idea why)
        • IHeartNY [iheartny.com] - Custom icons and dock skins.
        • CandyBar [iconfactory.com] - from Panic and the IconFactory, allows you to customize any and all system icons, including the toolbar, the trash icon, the default folder icon, etc.
        So I'd say we're pretty much covered. I'm sure it won't be long before someone writes an app that will replace Dock.app to do something different, even if Apple tries to sue the bejesus out of them.

        Hmm, now that I've compiled this list (and I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff), why haven't I installed any of this on my OS X machine? *off to download :-)*
    • " There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware."

      I guess if Apple was actually in the habit of coming up with cool gadgets year after year you might have a point. But the only possibly crossplatform gadgets I can think of that Apple has even innovated in the past 15 years are the newton and the ipod. So while it may be all well and good that the Ipod hasn't specifically been designed so it won't work in Windows or Linux, Apple mostly continues to be a computer maker not a inventor of new technology for all platforms. So again I'm just not sure what your point was since Apple really only makes computers, not hardware for every platform that we can all benefit from.

      "It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac."

      One product (the ipod) doesn't mean much. Especially when you consider its not Apple themselves making it work with other platforms.

      Sorry if I seem negative about this, but your whole post seems to try to give Apple credit for something they haven't earned. What you said is akin to sending congrats to MS because their mice are cross platform. Now you may be able to do so, but A) this wasn't intended and B) it represents a minority of MS's product line.

      Just something to think about.
      • I think he was talking about the general trend of Apple using (*and creating) standards where possible nowadays: Java, USB, FireWire*, IP, 802.11, ZeroConf*, IDE, ADC*, MPEG4*, WebDAV, FiberChannel. I'm sure there are many more examples of Apple's support of standards, those are simply off the top of my head.

      • Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days (Score:5, Interesting)

        by geek ( 5680 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @02:02PM (#4989795)
        Umm, they pushed USB and they made Firewire to name just two. Think a little harder on that and then post again.

        To compliment their achievments in hardware they open or offer freely a lot of software now as well, Darwin and Rendevouz not to mention the quicktime streaming server.
        • Umm Intel was pushing USB long before Apple used it.

          Also Apple gave away Darwin so they could get free R&D, and talk to me when a quicktime client is available for Linux.

          I guess I won't bother mentioning that Apple is as suit happy as Disney as well. Oh well I did anyway. ;)

          Think a little harder on that and then post again.

          I'm not expecting Apple to go completely OS anytime soon. But I'm sure a hell not going to forget their proprietary, suithappy past and start slapping them on the back just yet.

          • Show one example of Intel pushing USB. Not one PC came with USB before Apple made it standard on the iMac.

            As far as that pathetic argument of apple wanting free R&D I think you need to take your head out from where the sun doesn't shine. Apple has put as much or more into Darwin as any open source developer. That stupid comment about quicktime for Linux is just what i would expect from a linux bigot. Quicktime is not a codec, there is no reason open source developers can't implement mpeg4 and the other codecs with the exception of sorenson (note sorenson not apple) on linux.

            If you want to be anti-Apple then do so with at least a moderate amount of intelligence and evidence.

            Perhaps you can define suithappy. I'm thinking you pulled that one out of your ass as some sort of wannabe argument against Apple.

            Better luck next time.
            • Show one example of Intel pushing USB. Not one PC came with USB before Apple made it standard on the iMac.

              Incorrect. I know that IBM's Aptivas (my buddy's Pentium 133 had two ports) shipped with USB onboard. Of course Microsoft didn't have drivers for USB until Windows 95 Second Edition.
          • Umm Intel was pushing USB long before Apple used it.

            Intel pushed USB, but Microsoft didn't, and that was all that mattered, pre-1998. USB had no backers because the PC industry is resistant to change for fear of affecting the bottom line adversely.

            I remember in 1997 when dozens of Compaq workstations appeared at my workplace with USB cables--but no operating system that supported it. The USB drivers in Windows 95 OSR2 were busted and practically unusable. There were very, very few USB devices.

            In comes Apple, who didn't create USB, but just took an otherwise useful serial bus and installed it in all Macintosh systems since, starting with the iMac in 1998. That very act alone lit a fire under the computer industry's ass, and USB has been commonplace every since.

            Also Apple gave away Darwin so they could get free R&D, and talk to me when a quicktime client is available for Linux.

            OF COURSE Apple is giving away Darwin to make Mac OS X stronger. Does that make it or other operating systems that do the same thing (giving itself away) any less worthy? I would think not.

            As for something that can run QuickTime: you can start here. [heroinewarrior.com] It ain't official, but many software projects in the *nix world aren't anyway. Besides, why would Apple make a QuickTime client that competes against their own OS? Duh...!

            You can also stream QuickTime for free from Linux. [apple.com] Reviews indicate this is the best streaming server out there, even compared to MS and Real.

            I guess I won't bother mentioning that Apple is as suit happy as Disney as well. Oh well I did anyway. ;)

            Think a little harder on that and then post again.

            I'm not expecting Apple to go completely OS anytime soon. But I'm sure a hell not going to forget their proprietary, suithappy past and start slapping them on the back just yet.

            A little food for thought: Compaq is a proprietary box. They make proprietary drivers that work only in specific models. They may run Windows, but not without a lot of help from Compaq.

            You throw around the "p" word as if owning something or the sole right to change it makes it less worthy. Everything worth something has a proprietary component. Even Linux. Your nose is bleeding from sitting so high on your horse.

            Apple is a business, and it is not out there to impress you or cause a revolution. If it can give away something to help their bottom line, great. If it can leverage its technologies to get more computers sold, that's fine. Can it still benefit you, presumed Linux user? Sure. Could Apple lapse back to its own ways? Maybe, but the market forces would destroy it.
            • > You throw around the "p" word as if owning something or the sole
              > right to change it makes it less worthy. Everything worth
              > something has a proprietary component. Even Linux. Your nose is
              > bleeding from sitting so high on your horse.

              It does make it less worthy in my eyes as a buyer of technology. When I see the "p" word in ad copy I cringe. I might still buy, but the "p" is always a negative. It means more expensive, harder to maintain and usually single source products. All bad things from the perspective of the buyer. Name the positive virtues you associate with the word; from the point of view of a CUSTOMER. Bet you can't.

              As for Linux having a proprietary component, huh? Some distros do, such as SUSE and Mandrake and Redhat used to flirt with the dark side, but Linux itself has no such attachments. RedHat != Linux.

              I lived through the PC revolution and saw great systems, innovative software and countless products die because of being proprietary and therefore incapable of surviving the death of their manufacturer. Never again will I walk into the trap of depending of a proprietary product for anything important.

  • Nifty, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Badge 17 ( 613974 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:19PM (#4989040)
    Kneejerk response #1: Yeah, but what good does that do me if all my files are .OGG?

    Although I'd seriously consider going through and re-ripping all of them if I had the money... The iPod is just one of the coolest little gadgets I've seen in a while - especially the clean interface.

    Has Apple indicated any wish to support alternate compression? A quick Google didn't find anything.

    I suspect Apple should start researching OGG, as it seems much more likely than MP3 to remain un-DRM-contaminated... and Apple seems to be placing itself in the position of "use our computers - no stupid DRM!"

    I also wonder if Apple could be persuaded to issue a release of iPod software for Darwin... that way it could more easily be converted.

    • Re:Nifty, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tbmaddux ( 145207 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:35PM (#4989164) Homepage Journal
      Apple should start researching OGG, as it seems much more likely than MP3 to remain un-DRM-contaminated...
      MP3 is already un-DRM-contaminated. For it to become contaminated, it would have to be changed, at which point I would argue it's not really MP3 anymore. And all the old MP3 files and codecs would still work just fine, unless Apple starts playing games with our software. And as you noted, Apple's cultural position is opposed to that.

      It's my understanding that OGG is a good format, but my gut says is you're more likely to see MP4 support on the iPod first.

    • The moment you spent all your time ripping your colletion to OGG -- you setup a lock and chain to your PC. I am all for the idea (and quality/openess
      ) off OGG, however -- I for one like to listen to tunes away from my PC. Don't feel bad -- somewhere out there someone who transfered all of their family films to betamax knows just how you feel.
      • Alternatively the moment you developed a portable audio product that did not incorporate my open audio standard, ogg, you lost a potential customer. I have no problem listening to my music across various platforms, devices and networks. And I have no problem not paying corporations who develop products without putting even the slightest amount of thought into them or their customer's needs.

        Actually I'm in the process of transferring all my family films to ogm, the ogg media stream format. Ever heard of it? Not surprised. Its better than avi, wmv, quicktime, and rm, but you'll probably never use it until its "the next big thing", kinda like xvid. There's a huge difference between an audio/video codec and a phsyical product that relies on capitalism to perpetuate itself. Ogg will replace mp3s in the near future, its only a matter of time. Hint... people like me aren't supporting, sharing or using mp3s anymore than we have to.
        • I will be the first in line to buy the first portable to support OGG. Until then I am not going to give up the perks of being a consumer just because the people building these devices can't get with the codec program. (The only thing that peaks my curiousity is the fact that there is not some big company behind the mp3 format that is holding a gun to their heads with a threat to pull the trigger if they move on to other codecs --- Now would not that be a nice "/. interview" -- 20 questions with the head engineer/president ceo of some of these companies like Iriver, Sonic Blue, Creative, Frontier Labs, etc....
    • MP3 is just a file format.. it won't go away because of DRM. DRM has to start at a much lower level, like the hardware you have in your computer/cd player and the CDs and movies that you buy in the stores. Even if all of that took place, mp3 would still be available to you, but it would be very difficult to encode the latest CD that you purchased into an MP3 file.

      The gripe that most people have around here with mp3 is more of a legal problem rather than DRM.. the mp3 encoding/decoding technology is still owned by a single corporation and that means royalties I imagine. MP3 won't go away anytime soon, but it will probably die a very slow death like GIF.

    • Re:Nifty, but... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Quicktime 6.02 just now supports .OGG files as per two articles on /. So, it seems iPod support of .OGG will be around the corner and ready possibly for the next iPod Firmware update. However, this is just wild speculation on my part.

      • Re:Nifty, but... (Score:2, Informative)

        by geniusj ( 140174 )
        This could be informative, if it were correct. I don't know why it was slashdotted, but there has been a plugin available for a while to play OGG files in Quicktime and anything that uses the quicktime frameworks (e.g. iTunes). It's not a plugin made by apple nor is it supported by apple. It's just a 3rd party plugin and therefore doesn't really affect Apple's support of it.

        Cheers,
        -JD-
    • I haven't read the article (still /.ed), but I imagine that it outlines a procedure that starts with MP3s on your PC and ends with MP3s on your iPod. Since we're using Linux tools, it seems that it would be trivial to add a step (probably near the beginning) that will transcode your OGGs to MP3 before you send them to your iPod.

      OGG may be a better format, but when you're listening to music through tiny earbuds while riding the bus or walking around downtown, it's unlikely that you'll notice any loss of quality. I don't have a "proper" portable MP3 player yet, but I do have one of those portable CD players that will play MP3s on CD-ROM -- and this is *exactly* what I do.
    • This was posted just a short while ago. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/25/ 1532236&mode=thread&tid=141 Perhaps what you're asking for isn't all that far away.

    • Re:Nifty, but... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mbbac ( 568880 )
      I wish Apple would give me a firmware update to enable playing Ogg files on my iPod as well.

      Hopefully, we'll get that on January 7th along with official Ogg support and Rendezvous streaming in iTunes. I have a feeling the AAC codec is more likely, though.
  • "The only thing missing is a nice GUI."

    *avoids smart alec temptation to link to apple.com
  • I am about to purchase an mp3 player. Any suggestions on what to get, and why?
    • It is all a matter of what you want.

      If you aren't looking to put all of your music on it at anyone time, and therefore save some money, I would go with a Nomad Muvo, just because Creative makes hands down the best flash Mp3 players on the market, as far as size, sound quality, and price go.

      if you are looking for a hard drive player you have a lot of choices. But make sure it has IEEE 1394 (firewire, iLink). Even if you don't have that on your computer it will be worth buying the PCI card (or PCMCIA) for the speed jump over USB (1.1 or 2.0). From there it is really a question of two things: Size and style. Hands down, if money isn't an issue the smallest and best looking HD Mp3 player on the market is the iPod. If you don't mind lugging something a little larger there are many choices: Any of the Nomad Jukebox lines or the Zen are good products. I would be wary of any company that is comming on the market with a large MP3 player with lots of flashy features though. Chances are they don't have good battery life or track record.

      Overall the best advice I can give you is once you've decided HD or Flash, go to Best Buy or Circuit City and play with the MP3 players they have. You want something that is easy to operate, not too heavy for you to comfortable cary around etc.
  • I just can't justify the price. Sure it's sleek and sexy, sounds great, has multiple interfaces for data transfer, but it's priced at least a couple hundred $$ above the competition.

    For $229 (BestBuy $279 + $50 mail in rebate) I'm very satisfied with my Archos Jukebox Recorder 20 [archos.com].

    It has 20GB HD, USB 1.1,2.0, and comes bundled with Music match Jukebox.

    My wife uses it mostly, so it's only seen Windoze, but I'm sure it wouldn't take long for me to get it working with Linux. If someone hasn't done it already.
    • Musicmatch jukebox is so bad I wouldn't use it if I were being paid..
      I'll stick to Ephpod and my Win32 ipod thankyouverymuch

    • It already works under Linux. It is accessed as a USB Mass Storage device using the ISD-200 chip with a VFAT filesystem. The driver is in the vanilla kernel, and the web site for it is here [bjorn.haxx.se]. Also, there is open source firmware (which Archos will be including on its CD-ROM with future players) located at this page [rockbox.haxx.se]. This firmware doesn't support recording yet, but it will very soon now according to the web site.

      I have my whole MP3 collection on it, and it's great. Although I have to admit that it's not as visually pleasing as an iPod.

    • Ya, but I don't need a backpack with the iPod. You are paying a premium for the small size, the elegant UI, and the exceptional sound quality.

  • my 20GB works great :) (and howto) (Score:5, Informative)

    by warrior ( 15708 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:27PM (#4989112) Homepage
    Apparently the site is already /.'ed. Here's a way to get it working with a nice GUI.

    I'm using the latest stable kernel (2.4.20). 1394/ohci/sbp2 are all working great. Be sure to check "prompt for development drivers", then add the 1394 module and be sure to add OHCI and sbp2 (these also help if you're into dv ;). Be sure to have SCSI compiled in or as a module!! Also be sure to inlude the HFS (if you've got the mac version) or msdos/vfat (for windows ipod) if you don't want to reformat your ipod. Reboot with you new kernel.

    modprobe the 1394 and ohci modules. Do a tail -f on /var/log/messages and plug in your ipod and wait for the magic :) You should see Apple iPod being added as a (5/10/20)GB SCSI disk. Add a mount point for the drive in /etc/fstab using vfat if you've got windows or hfs if you've got a mac. You should now be able to access the iPod as a removable SCSI drive! modprobe -r sbp2 to safely remove the ipod (you have to unmount it first, too).

    Now, for the GUI. Download ephpod [ephpod.com]. Install it using wine (wine ephpod.exe). Change your wine config (probably ~/.wine/config) to use wherever you mounted your ipod as a drive. Startup ephpod. Be sure you've added some nice fonts to your wine install.

    Enjoy!
    • You can find more instructions (a non-slashdotted copy) here [duke.edu]
    • Yep, I can confirm this works - I've been using it since I got my 20GB Win iPod. I only used the bundled crapola software once: to "christen" my iPod.

      EphPod is a cool program, and I'm glad to have it. However, using EphPod under linux still has some glitches:

      (1) The "Add Directory..." feature doesn't work, you just get an empty selection browser. I suspect this is a wine limitation (I'm using the Crossover plugin version). You have to use "Add Files" instead, and just select all the files you want to add. That doesn't sound like too bad a workaround, but it's quite painful if you're adding a few thousand.

      (2) Sometimes EphPod screws up the iPod database: choose a Fleetwood Mac tune, get Elvis Costello song instead. *sigh* Using the EphPod's "Rebuild Database" function cures that problem, but it almost always loses the playlists. Solution: always keep linux-side copies of the playlists. I use xmms to build the playlists, then use Emacs to clean the xmms-specific lines out of them. Xmms can still use them, and they can be re-loaded into the iPod after rebuilding the database.

      (3) The 1394 drivers are immature. They frequently fail to recognize the iPod; unloading then reloading sbp2 usually fixes this. The drivers sometimes cause kernel oopses, at least with 2.4.19 and the latest 1394 drivers as of the time I got my iPod - I haven't tried 2.4.20 yet.

      (4) EphPod doesn't seem to recognize mp3 genre tags; I haven't looked deeply into this problem yet, but I suspect it may be an id3v2 vs v1 problem.

      That sums up my experience. I would say that using an iPod under linux is not for the faint of heart.

      --

      (Because linux sees the iPod as a generic block device, there are some interesting things you can do with it. When I first hooked up my iPod, I used a 'dd if=/dev/sdb | gzip -9' to grab an image of the hard disk - which could later be used to restore the entire iPod back to "virgin" state. I also dd'ed off a copy of /dev/sdb1 to have a copy of the firmware. The entire 20GB image compressed down to less than 10MG - must be mostly zeroes.)

      --Jim
  • The only thing missing is a nice GUI.

    whatsa matter? command line not good enough?

    damn elitists

    ;-)

  • Enough! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Myuu ( 529245 ) <myuu@pojo.com> on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:37PM (#4989182) Homepage
    I really don't think we need any more of these, compared to other devices, the ipod install was a breeze.

    1)compile the kernel with the modules
    2)mount the ipod
    3)use ephpod or gnupod (if you are a masochist)

    If it werent for my kernel issues, the install would have taken, at most, 20 min.

    And I am not very advanced with linux.

    Lets get more software and less howtwos
  • the ipod mounts YOU!

  • RIAA commercial I heard today.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @12:53PM (#4989285)
    ... Okay, this is a little off-topic, but I was just curious if anybody heard that anti-music trading commercial for the RIAA yet?

    "How many mouse clicks does it take before 99% of all music trading on the internet is illegal?"

    "How many mouse clicks does it take before people stop buying music all together?"

    "One."

    "Respect music."


    I wonder how many people who were ripping their CDs to their iPods or other devices felt about hearing that.
  • just check out here [tex9.com], as the xtunes [tex9.com] software has done this for some time already, and using a nice GUI
  • OK, I already know the answer to this one: Because you CAN!

    However, from a practical point of view, I can't imagine any reason to run Linux on a box that comes with a very tightly (and well) designed BSD Unix OS.

  • D'oh! (Score:4, Funny)

    by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @01:56PM (#4989739) Homepage
    When I first skimmed the headline for this story, I was saying to myself: "Wow, cool! They have iPod tools for Linux? Maybe I can get them to compile under Mac OS X!"
  • using ephpod and WINE. this uses a GUI. here's [duke.edu] a site with step by step instructions.

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