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O'Reilly Holds DRM Debate at Mac OS X Conference 59

suzanne writes "A panel discussion was just added to the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, moderated by Dan Gillmor. He and Cory Doctorow, J.D. Lasica, Victor Nemechek, and Tim O'Reilly debate the expansive, pro-customer stance on DRM built in to Mac OS X. (Oh, and in case you don't have enough toys to play with yet, the complete conference schedule is available via iCal, Apple's latest groovy app.)"
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O'Reilly Holds DRM Debate at Mac OS X Conference

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  • Apple... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by littlerubberfeet ( 453565 ) on Monday September 23, 2002 @07:50PM (#4315835)
    Apple should continue providing the tools to use and manipulate media, after all, isn't thatr what the mac is? a desktop multimedia machine. I hope they don't kill the functionality of the system. They are finally recovering from the Scully years, and gaining market share.

    If they do go the way of the evil empire, I suppose Linux will have to do.....hopefully functional media programs like Nuendo and Maya will be ported sometime....
  • by BoomerSooner ( 308737 ) on Monday September 23, 2002 @10:50PM (#4316872) Homepage Journal
    If apple goes the drm route all my posts lauding the PPC/OS X platform will die a quick death.

    This could be the application that gives apple the needed boost from 5% to 10~15%.

    Personally I'm betting on Apple. I know it's a risky venture but I believe they can grow beyond a niche market. My companies software is being developed concurrently for Apple/Linux/Windows and will be offered at the same time on all systems. It is specialized s/w that would never appear in BestBuy or Fry's but if Apple proves to be worthy (which I believe it will), my company will continue to develop products for it and support our clients using Apple. All that being said I'm still hedging my bet by developing for Windows and Linux (fyi the apple development is done in Cocoa/Java/Interface Builder, the linux development is all Java/JFC (cannot wait for 1.5 and cleaned up Swing, they really need to trash it and just start from scratch), and windows is .Net/CLR/VB/C# this is because the classes converting to C# from Java are almost identical! Lol, MS thieves).

    Personally if I had to dictate to the world what to use I would say go with Mac & OS X, but choice is also a good thing (keeping the megacorps on their toes).
  • Good ol Apple (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MalleusEBHC ( 597600 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @11:44AM (#4319605)
    I don't think anyone has to be too worried about Apple implementing DRM on their computers. If there are two things Apple has stood for through the years, it has been a progressive, user-friendly philosophy and sticking it to M$ any chance they get (well, just so long as they don't stick it TOO bad to where they lose Office heh). Going against DRM would be in line with both of these ideas. It would still allow Macs to be the "digital hub" they are touted as without forcing the user to jump through hoops to use iTunes or anything like that. Also, don't you think it would make a very nice "Switch" commercial to have someone talking about how they can finally rip mp3's, burn DVDs/CDs, etc.?
  • Re:For mac users... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Melantha_Bacchae ( 232402 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @12:32PM (#4319951)
    GreyWolf3000 wrote:

    > This makes me very pleased--if anyone finds real
    > evidence that this is merely a pr move and that
    > Macs will take a turn for the worse, by all means
    > let me know a bit later on from now--I want a few
    > hours to enjoy my bliss.

    Be at peace and enjoy your bliss. This is for real.

    Steve Jobs took the occasion of Apple's recent Grammy win to make an acceptance speech that pretty much blasted the recording industry for its DRM stupidity:

    "Apple strives to protect the rights of both intellectual property owners and consumers alike and believes there is a 'middle path' in digital music distribution which actively discourages the theft of music, while at the same time preserving consumers rights to manage and listen to their legally acquired music on whatever devices they own,"
    Steve Jobs, 2002 Grammy Awards, as reported on http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020227/1/2jun2.html.

    Jobs has been known to say that piracy is not a technological problem.

    When asked what Apple was going to do with their shopping acquisitions (the various media production tools that Apple recently bought), Jobs said "democratize them".

    Apple has to take this position, fight this fight, and win. Their future is at stake here: the combo of the Hollings bill and Microsoft's DRMOS patents could force Apple to pay huge licensing fees to MS or be forced out of business.

    Yes, there is indeed hope. The sun with a bite out of it over Cupertino on December 14th, and the recent antics of sunspot #69 (heart shaped, then apple logo shaped, followed by a solar flare on the day Jaguar was released) are proof enough that the power that once resurrected a charred Apple sapling loves it still.

    For the media sharks she has no love, only a hurricane force fury at their greed and cruelty.

    On December 14, 1996, Mothra resurrected a charred Apple sapling ("Mosura", days before Apple announced Jobs' return).
    On December 14, 2001, Mothra returned to see its fruit ("Gojira, Mosura, Kingu Ghidora: Daikaiju Soukougeki").
    OS X Jaguar: truly the Apple of Mothra's Aqua eye.
  • by clontzman ( 325677 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @12:49PM (#4320099) Homepage
    Yeah, Apple's DRM stance is so consumer-friendly that I deleted all the music on my iPod by -- get this -- plugging it into another Mac! No warning, no dialogue, no music.

    Happened to a friend of mine too... 6 GB of music wiped out. That's not what I call user-friendly.
  • by Dawang ( 611122 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @04:23PM (#4322155)

    Think past the playback device and think more about the content creators.

    Jack Valenti and his cronies want DRM *BAD* and will align themselves behind whomever gives them the tools to "protect" their interests.

    Right now, that's Microsoft.

    If Apple stays on their current path of no DRM (I think I read an interview with Steve Jobs somewhere that says they want to trust their users -- novel idea -- instead of enacting DRM), then they might have an awesome platform for playback.

    But what will they have TO play back if everything is provided in WinMedia 9+/Palladium?

    QuickTime 6 and MPEG4 are great for creating content, but it's distribution that'll determine a lot.

    The Mass Consumer who doesn't know how their rights are being curtailed will go for "secure" systems. They're Lemmings who follow the MS PR line. Unfortunately, they outnumber those of us with Brains. They're not going to want to buy any open systems if all the latest Hollywood goodies are only available on Windows DRM kits.

    I fear that Apple is going to have to implement *some* kind of DRM -- let's just hope they're going to be Smart about it.

  • by clontzman ( 325677 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @05:27PM (#4322700) Homepage
    You're missing my point. iTunes cared not what was on the device and ERASED EVERYTHING ON IT WITHOUT WARNING. Regardless of what I was doing, my opinion is that good software shouldn't wipe clean a device attached to it.

    People make mistakes and it's the job of a good programmer to plan for them, I think? I mean, the same thing happened to a friend of mine, so it's not like I'm uniquely foolish here. I didn't do anything unusual with the device -- I just added music from a different computer.

"Well, it don't make the sun shine, but at least it don't deepen the shit." -- Straiter Empy, in _Riddley_Walker_ by Russell Hoban