Interview With iMac designer, Jonathan Ive 556
rleyton writes "The Independent has an interesting interview with Jonathan Ive, the designer of the new imac (and the iBook, the iPod and original iMac...)" It's actually a pretty interesting
even if you think the new iMac is repulsive. Personally I dig it.
Good read (Score:3, Interesting)
Even if you don't like the stuff, it isn't the same derivative crap that has flooded the rest of the market.
Shouldn't that name be iVe? (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Good read (Score:4, Interesting)
I use a mac because they suit my purpose. They are fast enough for me, run graphical apps fine, allow me to use the CLI in OS X while photoshop running next to it.
The perception is that most mac users go for style over substance...nah. We're pretty savvy, and while looks are important, they're not the most important thing.
Then again, there was the cool linux chick who sat next to me in the computer cafe, and commented on how sexy the Titanium Powerbook G4 was....
Re:Good read (Score:3)
Anyway, to get back to my response to your post, I generally agree with you. I just wanted to point out that I think there's another class of mac user who you're overlooking.
new iMAC (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:new iMAC (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, most folks complaining about it will stick with their ugly beige monstrosities. I'm fairly certain most people blasting its appearance are just rabidly anti-mac.
Re:new iMAC (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:new iMAC (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Macs would become more expensive, by the cost of VPC+Win??? - and which version of Windows should they include?
2) every user who chooses Apple to avoid paying MS money would be unable to do so
All in all, this would shrink, not expand, their market share.
Re:new iMAC (Score:2, Informative)
rabid anti-mac sentiment (Score:5, Insightful)
However, since the introduction of the PPC, mac hardware has generally been respected by the geek community. Now that macs run OS X, the geeks like it even more.
However, there's always going to be somebody who has to bash the mac for whatever reason. But lets face it, in the year 2002 you can't show how cool of a computer user you are by simply bashing Apple.
Now Microsoft on the other hand....
Re:new iMAC (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:new iMAC (Score:2)
1299 is a very reasonable price for a well designed, higher quality computer like an apple.....and the fact that the price of 128MB or ram is realy cheep...I will spend the 32 dollors and go get some more.
oh yeah, care to Itemize that set up? since you did not include any information about the Drives and other such aspects.
Re:new iMAC (Score:2, Funny)
Re:new iMAC (Score:2)
what is the price, please itemise so we can all see this computer you put together.
Re:Even taking into account PR ratings, it's slow. (Score:3, Insightful)
An analogy could be made to the automotive market. That sporty little Boxter there can probably go twice as fast as my minivan, but it's constrained by the same speed limit as the rest of us, and is probably stuck in the same backup to the toll booth that I am.
I've bought the latest and greatest a couple times in my life. It's a wonderful feeling, tapping on the keys of the fastest and most powerful computer available. (Power. Power! Raw, brute, merciless POWER!!! Muahahahaha!)
Then two weeks later Intel or AMD releases an even faster and less expensive chip, and inside of a month you overhear some snot-nosed kid boasting about his new TurboUltraMegaBox which has twice the CPU, memory, and storage of yours.
That way lies madness. At least fashion fads stick around for a couple years. They even come back around in a couple decades. iMac Lisa, anyone?
Re:Even taking into account PR ratings, it's slow. (Score:2)
Re:It's the software.... (Score:2, Funny)
I'd also like to learn more about that $99 wireless option for Wintel PCs. Are Linux drivers available?
Re:It's the software.... (Score:4, Insightful)
But please, please... don't just say you can go and install Linux or *BSD on your Dell machine and boom there you go. That just oozes complete ignorance. Linux/*BSD is not a consumer desktop OS. You know why I like MacOSX? Because with it, I can boot my pc, run Internet Explorer while running Photoshop (the GIMP does not compare, and only geeks that never do any real production work would say it does,) edit my perl code, and then check out my work on my apache server, which includes photos imported from my camera and stills captured from my Digital Video camera. Oh, and then I can edit and save (sucessfully I might add) that word or excel document attachment sent to me by a friend in Office.
Now let's see Linux do that, and better yet... Do it OUT OF THE BOX.
Oh and I don't think Linux has a WM (or more likely X Server) that produces vector-based images for it's windowing architecture.
So NO... you CAN'T JUST install Linux on your dell (which costs pretty much the same, if not only about $100-$200 less)
Re:new iMAC (Score:4, Informative)
Personally, I think the decision to leave out the sub was a good one. A subwoofer can be placed under a desk or in another inconspicuous place, and Apple took that into account when designing the iMac. An integrated subwoofer would signifigantly increase the footprint of the iMac and take up valuable desk space.
Plus, not all users are avid music listeners. The speakers that come with the iMac can adequately handle the dings and whistles from normal PC use. Not all users need a subwoofer in the first place, and including one would add to the cost of the unit.
Re:new iMAC (Score:2, Informative)
That's why Apple, or really Harmon-Kardon, sells a subwoofer called the iSub. The sound quality increases exponentially when you add one to an iMac. Its also probably as big as the new iMac. But at around $60 its not a bad pickup.
Greg
Re:new iMAC (Score:4, Informative)
Audio playback on a computer, at it's best, is still pretty bad. Even if you have an iSub Woofer and some fancy Altec Lansing speakers, the CD drive isn't a very good audio CD player. The sound card isn't a very good preamp or amplifier.
If Apple were to begin adding all the hardware that would be required to make an iMac good at audio, the thing would be as big as your desk.
As cool as iTunes and the iPod are MP3 is a lossy format, even at the highest sampling rate, it tosses out some information (=sound) from the ripped CD.
More fundamentally, CD audio itself is "lossy" because even its sampling rate misses too much information from the original analog sound recording (most records are still originally recorded in the analog domain, then digitized).
Until the widespread adoption of audio DVD (which stores much more information and allows for a much higher sampling rate) digital audio playback will remain inferior to analog.
New from Apple and Harmon Kardon, the iTurntable!
What do you think of Vincent Jeunejean? (Score:2, Flamebait)
I know that the lead times of a project like this preclude apple from actually using his design, but when you saw the article, what was your reaction?
Didja think it had been leaked?
Re:What do you think of Vincent Jeunejean? (Score:2, Informative)
and 2), Vincent hasn't got a leg to stand on [apple.com], I'm afraid.
Re:What do you think of Vincent Jeunejean? (Score:2)
Re:What do you think of Vincent Jeunejean? (Score:2)
If you look hard enough I'm sure that you can find something similar to any new idea somewhere. There are billions of people with trillions of ideas, it's not hard to imagine that two people could have a similar idea on the same topic and even have the ideas appear in similar forums.
Also, lets look at it this way. People have been talking about an LCD iMac for a long time. It's pretty standard for an LCD to have a long neck attached to a base. It is not hard to make the leap that it will be a lot easier to put the internals of the computer in a larger base, leaving the panel free to swing around. The hard part is the design and engineering of all the critical parts so that they work well together.
Making a quick sketch of what this product will be is very easy and I bet that there are many people who came up with a similar design on the back of napkins. The fact is that Apple went out, did it, and are now selling it before anyone else did so.
Re:What do you think of Vincent Jeunejean? (Score:2)
HOWEVER, I _did_ say that 'a project like this preclude apple from actually using his design' which means (for those people responding my original message that were too dumb to understand) "I KNOW YOU DID NOT COPY HIM". The purpose of my post was to ask what he THOUGHT about the guys claims.
My post was hardly flamebait, but the jackasses that modded it such + those that responded to my message believing I was saying apple had copied this guy = a bunch of darn jackasses.
Sincerely,
Chairboy
Kudos on keeping it secret! (Score:4, Insightful)
Itroducing iLamp (Score:3, Funny)
Itroducing iLamp:
http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?di
Not just pretty on the outside... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not just pretty on the outside... (Score:5, Informative)
Granted, it doesn't require more paste if you only open the hatch to the RAM and wireless card, but it does if you actually open the case itself.
See page 12 in the manual:
Replacement Note: Whenever the bottom housing is opened for service, you must clean
and reapply thermal paste to the surfaces joining the thermal interface layer. Failure to
reapply this paste could cause the computer to overheat and possibly damage the internal
components. Refer to the next topic, "Thermal Paste Application" for detailed information.
Not the bottom of the unit (Score:3, Informative)
Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (Score:5, Insightful)
This interview touches on a few concepts that I think today's geeks (and many of yesterday's geeks too) are no longer in touch with.
Quality. Art. The "soul" of a machine.
There is something to be said for the amount of sheer human effort put in to designing a product like this. A Quality product shines in it's attention to human-machine interaction, but is a result of "inner beauty". For those of you who haven't programmed using Cocoa or haven't messed around much with OS X or actually seen and used a recent iMac in person, there's no substitute for the tangible results of Apple's years of dedication.
When I use Mac OS X, I can *feel* that somewhere in Cupertino there's an English major who was losing sleep at nights trying to make the text in the dialog boxes as clear and understandable as possible. When was the last time you felt that way about the latest d/l off of sourceforge?
The subject/object duality is something that premeates the "geek world" - I beg of the programmers and techs out there try to move beyond it. Apple's certainly tried to.
(I'd post more, but I haven't had my coffee yet... )
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:4, Funny)
...or Slashdot for that matter.
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:2, Offtopic)
You get what you pay for.
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:4, Insightful)
When I use Mac OS X, I can *feel* that somewhere in Cupertino there's an English major who was losing sleep at nights trying to make the text in the dialog boxes as clear and understandable as possible. When was the last time you felt that way about the latest d/l off of sourceforge?
While I agree about SourceForge, OSX is a step down from OS9 in dialog box text (and help in general).
For example, I just love the error "No file services are available at the URL . Try again later or try another URL (server returned error 1)" OSX returns this when it can't connect to an SMB share no matter what the actual reason. Wrong password? Invalid user? No such share? Everything gets the same error.
Worse, the MacOSX Help files are nicely written, but there are so few of them that help is very close to useless. It will tell you how to copy a file, but for anything more complex you're basically SOL.
Still, compared to the average Open Source app, they're amazing.
Eric
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:2)
Now *I* know that was probably an out of memory error or an extension conflict, but that comes from a lot of reading and experience. The average user calls someone like me and says words to the effect of 'WTF?!'
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:3, Interesting)
First, let all the people who write apps swear an oath that they will forevermore document what they create to a high standard. If this is a start, then the cooler boxes may follow, perhaps in the next generation.
That new internet coputer based on Mozilla is a glimpse of what this "next generation" could look like.
No one is compelled to put up with "bland boxes" and "difficult" software like the notorius Mplayer, or any of the other "break it to find out how it works" stuff. There are other options. If you have the time/brains/cash.
Undocumented software, wires everywhere, bespoke systems. This is part of the culture. If one cant live with this, then one can to go to the places where everything is made beautifuly and beautifully easy.
I loved the part of the article about Gateway being on the ropes. The solution for them is clear; get a world class deigner in house to revamp and vitalize the product range, and then customize one of the advanced Linux distributions, brand it, and ship every product with it without exception.
They would then have something to offer the public, something to fire the imagination... and it might even be cheaper in the stores since they dont have to pay royalties for the OS.
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:2)
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:4, Interesting)
i mean, there are often many solutions to a problem - but the one that has the most thought and work applied to it is usually the most elegant.
Reading (Score:2)
read picture books, they don't just pick up the
basics of reading -- they learn how stories are
structured, along with a raft of other cultural
cruft.
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:5, Insightful)
Mostly Mac geeks, since many of us are graphic designers. It's no coincidence ;)
ugg.. fud. (Score:5, Interesting)
Henry Ford said the same thing about the first car. Basically it was a Tractor high-bread that will allow people to drive the store in the same vehicle after plowing the fields.
I happen to appreciate the elegance of something like OSX. It's out of my face so I can get the work I need done, done quicker.
The rumors about it being slow or buggy are just plain fud. They have fixed almost all of the anoying problems after version 10.1 and it's just getting better.
I find that I am actually able to do the things using the tools I am used to (Unix/GNU tools that I am used to such as VIM, wget, Lynx, php/apache, etc.) I can also play games (Wolfenstein) that I love, and co-habitate with my co-workers that are a MS Office establishment.
I don't know how you can say that interface improvments are regressive. The UNIX/Linux world would still be using TWM if we all kept that mentality.
Re:Computers don't have souls. I like mine fast. (Score:5, Insightful)
That people do not believe that the asthetics (nevermind that the physical representation, ie, design of a computer does not exist in a vacuum
The speed at which you dismiss design vs. function suggests to me that you've never really given thought or faith to design, and thus never really experienced the benifits of proper industrial design. There is no clear line between function and asthetic, as you put it; a painting is a tool to stimulate parts of your brain that you want to stimulate, where as a tool is no good unless you can stand to look at it, use it, and spend time with it. Given the increase in stress of the average office worker, and the number of hours he or she spends with the tool known as the computer, it is a shame that people seem so quick to dismiss evironmental factors as having an effect on their emotional disposition.
To take it a step furthur, your bedroom is nothing but a tool to get some sleep in, so why not paint it completely black?
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:5, Insightful)
You are quoting a Microsoft software designer on software design. Wow, that has to redefine either "guts" or "insanity".
Every machine is the creation of a human. Some of those creations have a beauty and functionality surpassing that of others. Part of that can be unquanitifiable, and it is that that is a machine's "soul" - the very essence of what makes it different that cannot be summed up in numbers. Not every human has a mystical bent, but the vast majority do, even in this cynical time. This is why most people buy tables, instead of putting plywood on a bunch of cinderblocks.
Obviously, because you've never used either, and from this and your other comments have no idea what constitutes worth.
Cocoa, meaning the frameworks and objective C language in this case, is the best object oriented programming environment I've ever seen. Perhaps the problem is that it is not difficult enough for you to use? Perhaps you couldn't get enough "cool points" by accomplishing something easily, when there is a harder way to do it?
And "not where the money is"??? OK, it's true you can make more money if you use VB than if you program in Cocoa. I'm not aware of any decent programs written in VB, or any decent programmers who use VB, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Re:Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenan (Score:4, Informative)
Does a nice job.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally I dont like the new Imac, BUT that really dosent mean SQUAT since Im not a prospective customer. Ill stick with the UltraSparcs.
What matters is Mac people do, and they liked the original, and the I book, I have used both and I can say I came closer than EVER to buying a Apple for the Wife, Part of that was the integrated packaging, part of it "ease of use" etc.
If they almost had me hooked after my last Apple experience (I bought a Lisa when they were new
Im sure they wont have a problem hooking people in.
Does it remind anyone else of their home-ec project gone awary , a slunk of dough , then sticking a pencil in it with a sign, (insert team name here) RULE ! ??? No wonder I failed HomeEc....
20 pounds? (Score:2, Interesting)
Has anyone picked one up yet? Does it actually weigh that much?
Re:20 pounds? (Score:2)
Like Macs or not, this is a great quote: (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I like the new iMac. Not enough to abandon my 6 month old PC and switch back to Macs, but I think it's a pretty cool computer. No matter what your opinion of Macintosh or their employees is, you have to like what the designer said. So many times in this industry (think about all Microsoft products) people forget that it's easy to make new and different things, the hard part is making reliable, efficient products that truly are "better." I say score one for Macintosh with this new computer, and even if it doesn't sell like hotcakes, they are in good shape if they all think like this guy does.
The Computer for your Parents? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Computer for your Parents? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Son, I have to reset the clock everytime it turns on." So I started explaining how to do that on a Mac... She interrupted me and said "No Son, I know how to do that. I don't know how to fix it. It says something about its battery." Realizing she had jumped in useability, I decided for Christmas this year (she had the other one for 1 or 2) to get her a used iMac. She's very happy with how much faster it is. Of course, now that it doesn't run slow, I'm being bombarded with Instant Messages, Emails, and pretty looking weekly Cookbooks from her. Maybe for mother's day I'll look into the new iMac. Then I can play with it for a while too.
Re:The Computer for your Parents? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The Computer for your Parents? (Score:3, Insightful)
I personally chalk it up to evolution; some people are born to walk against the current to test and try new things, and some people, like this guy, are born to keep trying to turn them around again
This is what Apple represents best; the notion that thinking different, that deviating from the norm, still leaves plenty of room to find the optimum solutions and innovations. Some people see the popular vote as the vindicaton of righteousness
Apple Is Taking the First Big Step... (Score:5, Interesting)
My dream computer is one that stands out while I activly interact with it, but when I'm not using it seamlessly blends right into the background. Kindof the way the computer works on Star Trek. While we're still years away from having this concept being actively sold to the consumer (though all the pieces seem to be falling into place), in the past few years I have considered Macs ever more seriously when thinking about new computers (and know that now, with WinXP, if&when I succumb to the lure of a laptop, it will be an iBook- unless Linux has become the dominant x86 OS in the interim).
Re:Apple Is Taking the First Big Step... (Score:2, Interesting)
Alan
Re:Apple Is Taking the First Big Step... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Andy, you have new mail"
"Is it important?"
(computer looks up the sender in a list of ppl that Andy has designated as 'important')
"Yes"
"Read it to me"
(computer reads Andy the email)
It's not that hard to do with the Mac's 5 year old speech recognition tools.
While there's a fair amount of setup required and it's not a universal solution (the computer can only respond to predefined queries), it's pretty damn cool. I've set up something similar with my macs, and it's enough to make people say, "whoa".
Re:Apple Is Taking the First Big Step... (Score:3, Funny)
I played around with the same thing. The one problem I had was when I said" "Computer play classical music" (which would launch iTunes the desired playlist) that was the last command I could give it. Once it was playing music it would get confused by it's own audio output. I would think that would be a pretty easy thing to fix - just have the computer cancel out it's own output when processing audio input. Unfortunately Apple does not seem so interested with speech recognition - which is too bad, with their control over hardware and software they could probably put together a machine with a very powerful speech UI.
Spelling (Score:3, Redundant)
Re:Spelling (Score:4, Funny)
Why am I never in a target market? (Score:2, Insightful)
Personally I'd just like some more variety in the choices available to me, especially if that means machines that fit in seamlessly with my existing home electronics.
Lump, Stick, Rectangle. and awesome. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't understand how people can be so critical of this. It is truly innovative, with a 700-800MHz G4 packed into the small package (as well as 128MB of RAM and a GeForce2 card.) The only things I don't like are the price, and the screen size. Still, it's a marvelous piece of engineering and design. If you need something else to like about it, take a gander at all the ports in the back. Definitely impressive.
Don't like it? don't buy it. But at least acknowledge the craftsmanship and vision.
(No, I am not affected by the reality distortion field... otherwise I would have put down the money and bought one, and not seen any shortcomings.
What I'd ask (Score:4, Insightful)
Frankly, this is the dumbest design decision ever. If you're trying to make a "simple" computer, why use a dongle that consumers will most certainly forget or lose? What could be more simple than the same connector used on 99% of the world's personal computers?
This is extra stupid, since there is plenty of space to put a standard VGA-out connector on both systems. Additionally, making a custom port and dongle adds to the cost of an already expensive computer.
I'm all for design improvements, but there is no point being proprietary just for the sake of being different.
Re:What I'd ask (Score:4, Interesting)
How about not using any connector at all, and simply sticking with the flat panel display that comes with the iMac and iBook?
There's no good reason for Apple to waste space on a computer designed to be as small as possible to hook a second monitor up to what's supposed to be, and this is important, a consumer PC. Pros and developers need second monitors. Consumers almost never do.
Re:What I'd ask (Score:2)
Ahh, but there is. It may not be a survival reason but there is one nontheless: protecting your interests.
Take the IBM-cloning of the 80's and 90's. Apple didn't dive into that because they wanted Apple to mean a level of quality that THEY controlled. It may have led to smaller market share, but to a company like Apple that was secondary to protecting the Apple image and level of design quality they now enjoy as REPUTATION in the industry.
I don't think it's hard to see that they wouldn't have this luxury had they opened up some Apple-cloning licensing scheme like IBM did.
Oh, and anther thing: where is the IBM PC today? Dead.
Re:What I'd ask (Score:3, Flamebait)
I thought this was self-evident, but Apple wants to make sure that you ONLY use their own flatscreen LCD on the new iMac.
This reduces the quality control factor a LOT. Apple only has to worry about ONE video card and monitor configuration. Whereas PC manufacturers have to worry about an infinite number of possiblities. Think of the savings in support costs alone.
THAT is protecting one's interests.
Re:What I'd ask (Score:3, Informative)
Besides which, screwing a VGA connector on is a PITA on a laptop. With this design, you can screw the adapter onto the monitor cable and then just plug it in. Apple provides the adaptor and it is as easy to plug and unplug as a USB or Firewire cable.
[OT] That guy that had the sketches... (Score:4, Interesting)
If he even remotely claims Apple 'stole' his ideas, he should be laughed off the face of the planet.
Consider the incredible number of conceptual drawings and sketches about possible new iMac designs that have made the rounds in the last two years. Combine that with the fact that every computer needs a spot for ports, a display, and something to contain the cpu/drives/ram/etc. Now, combine that with the industrial design directions Apple set by announcing the death of the CRT [last may @ WWDC, I believe] and the icebook/tibook look and feel.
All told, it is no surprise that *one* of the myriad concept sketches that appeared on the net look similar! As innovative as Apple is, they have yet to be able to entirely break the bonds of reality (i.e. say, a completely detached floating display).
As well, the guy *sent* his concept sketches to Apple-- including to Steve Jobs. Apple's policy on such matters is quite clear; anything submitted becomes the property of Apple and they can do whatever they bloody well please with it-- including giving it to a competitor, if they saw fit to do so.
iMac News Parody (Score:3, Funny)
Submitted for your approval, an Onion-like story on the subject:
Honey I Melted The iMac [ridiculopathy.com]
The picture of the iMac with a lamp shade on it is worth the click.
The Lump (Score:2, Redundant)
Jobs... (Score:4, Funny)
The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:2, Insightful)
This actually started me thinking about Compaq. Not today's company, but the company 5 or 10 years ago. They used to be a huge amount of thought into their computers, trying to make them the best they could be. You know what happened?
I freaking despised them.
Yes, they were well built. Yes, they managed to typically squeeze another 5-10% performance over their competitors. But to do all that, very often they used non-standard components. They had wacky partitions on the hard drives that for extra management functions. I believe they even had special "Compaq memory" (I could be misremembering the latter).
It was a total pain in the ass, and for many components there was only one place to go: Compaq, and the parts were very expensive.
I'm all in favor of better, but when it comes to computers, I think I would rather have better AND standard AND reasonably priced. The thing about Apple is that they don't make computers for "the rest of us", they make computers for the 3% of the population who like shopping at boutiques.
Re:The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:2)
Actually, I forgot to finish the story. Compaq started losing HUGE marketshare, and they finally took out big ads saying that wacky hardware was a thing of the past. They realized that their customer base didn't want wacky hardware.
Re:The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:3, Insightful)
... and people who don't need to update their hardware every year, which is almost everyone that DOESN'T read this web site.
Geez, don't you guys have relatives with 5 year old computers they've never upgraded because "they don't have to"? This is the AVERAGE PC user. This is the "big" market. Not the geek market. The geek market can keep using big, clunky grey boxes for all Apple cares. The truth is that the geek market is too damn fast for Apple, and that's fine for both parties.
As for everyone else, Apples make great computers. Their design may make them boutiquish, but if you take a closer look you'll see a computer that is truly designed with the mass market in mind.
It's too bad the geeks are still advising their relatives to get ugly grey boxes when they could be getting a much more user-friendly experience.
Sometimes a geek has to put himself in computer-ignorant shoes!
Re:The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:4, Funny)
Everything in the iMac except the screen, the OS, and the motherboard, is a conventional, PC useable component.
Re:The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:5, Insightful)
There luckilly is a big difference between the Compaq's you speak of and the Apple's of today. The biggest difference is that you don't *see* the wackiness. Since
Apple both does the BIOS, and the OS, no nasty hack like hidden partitions or weird NT drivers to get things to work properly.
Unlike the Compaq of the past, Apple doesn't try to make every peice of the pie either. Apple doesn't try to do stuff like make video cards, NIC's, or FUBAR SmartRAID cards. They leave that to other folks. My G4 has a Broadcom Gigabit Ethernet chipset, a normal Geforce2MX, and some outsourced sound chipset. It takes normal PC133 DIMM's, etc. They've learned to outsource & standardize a lot more since Jobs has come aboard. Sun does now too more, but they still manage some of the items on their own (Sun GigE 2.0).
Apple just makes sure that everything works together nicely. From the case, to the chipset, to the BIOS, and to the OS level. They do a beautiful job at it too.
P.S.: I've got a Compaq Proliant 4xPPRO 200 at home. Guess what it's used for? A TV stand (it's covered by a black sheet). I hate those machines with a passion.
Re:The last company that tried to be "better" (Score:4, Informative)
Funny you should mention that. Actually, as you'll discover if you ever install Linux on a Mac, there are several "hidden partitions". These include:
Those are what I've discovered on a single Macintosh (Blue & White G3 model) which had been running Mac OS 9 and onto which I'd installed Debian. I'm sure there are even more on a modern system with Mac OS X. And no, the Mac doesn't use the PC partition format with its "primary" vs. "logical" limitations.
Thing is, you're mostly right ... in Mac OS
itself, you never have to worry about these things.
OSX (Score:2, Funny)
LCD iMacs & Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
Still, I like the idea of having a LCD iMac. It would be cool for me, I'm just not sure that it will work in the education market. (Yeah, I know. Maine bought 38,600 iBooks recently. Still, most schools buy iMacs.)
Despite that,are we facing an Apple come back?
Think about what they've done in the past couple years:
- Nice hardware, growing in leaps and bounds as the market for those things matures (pc133, yes it was late, and yes, it's slower than DDR, but hey, better than pc100), nice processors, removing all relic hardware as necessary (USB instead of ADB, etc). Apple has always done this.
- Making the powerbook g4 was the next step, making a laptop just slightly less powerful than a desktop, *AND* has a battery life to speak of.
- Nice software: OS X. BSD core. No need for them to figure out how to reinvent the wheel with their crappy old OS's--Simply change a few widgets, and call it Darwin, then add a GUI, and Voila! instant OS. With a *LOT* of software available, not to mention the 20 billion BSD hackers, the people that'll keep the Darwin OS up to snuff.
- Totally reengineered interface--Finally a command line that doesn't suck! And for that matter, a GUI that doesn't suck! And multitasking! And all sorts of neat widgets that make techies and non-techies alike scream out "I WANT ONE!"
- Giving computers to schools, making great leaps in hardware, standardizing their video system. I see this as a incredibly brilliant move for Jobs.
All in all, more power to them... They may live, they may struggle, or they may die. They are pushing the user's into a whole new realm; DVD-
R's in affordable systems, laptops that don't suck, and keeping up with technology a lot better than they used to.
Apple has the CRT line for education (Score:3, Informative)
So, they still have the durable iMac CRT for those that need it.
__nether
Anglepoise (Score:5, Informative)
Need to look that one up? Me too. The Anglepoise [design-technology.org] table lamp, modeled on the muscles and bones of human limbs, was invented by George Carwardine in 1933. You know your standard adjustable desk lamp? That's an Anglepoise-derived design.
when will they ditch the screen? (Score:2, Interesting)
Observing the public reaction, it is clear that like its predecessor it is destined to invade and fully occupy the public imagination for the next couple of years. Bully for Apple, and for Ive. And it will be perfect for my parents.
But what I've realized I'd personally like most is just the detached hub. I'll buy my own flat-screen thank you (maybe an Apple Cinema display). I don't need more than one viewing angle and I'd rather put the hub itself off towards the back of the desk. Just need the LCD, keyboard, mouse/trackball and speakers up front.
I hope they're planning on releasing this iHub on its own, some time soon. It would be a sweet machine - short on expandability, but as this NYT article points out [nytimes.com], at a better price point (and a helluva lot more aesthetic) than the G4 towers.
-Renard
Re:when will they ditch the screen? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
White dome only?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:White dome only?? (Score:2)
Steve Jobs on Design (Score:5, Informative)
STEVE JOBS ON DESIGN
Fortune Magazine: What has always distinguished the products of the
companies you've led is the design aesthetic. Is your obsession with
design an inborn instinct or what?
Steve Jobs: We don't have good language to talk about this kind of thing.
In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior
decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains and the sofa. But to me,
nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the
fundamental soul of a man-made creation that ends up expressing itself in
successive outer layers of the product or service. The iMac is not just
the colour or translucence or the shape of the shell. The essence of the
iMac is to be the finest possible consumer computer in which each element
plays together.
On our latest iMac, I was adamant that we get rid of the fan, because it
is much more pleasant to work on a computer that doesn't drone all the
time. That was not just "Steve's decision" to pull out the fan; it
required an enormous engineering effort to figure out how to manage power
better and do a better job of thermal conduction through the machine. That
is the furthest thing from veneer. It was at the core of the product the
day we started.
This is what customers pay us for--to sweat all these details so it's easy
and pleasant for them to use our computers. We're supposed to be really
good at this. That doesn't mean we don't listen to customers, but it's
hard for them to tell you what they want when they've never seen anything
remotely like it.
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/2000/01/24/app6.
--
Why the dome? (Score:5, Informative)
I thought a more squarish (dare I say cube-shaped) base would have allowed for built in stereo speakers. And I think it would have looked a lot cooler than the lump base.
The Independent interview with Ive finally explained it for me:
Well if lump is the most functional form for the base, then lump it is. As Ive mentions in the interview, you don't really appreciate all the subtle decisions that go into an industrial design until you start to understand all the constraints.
I like the G4 iMac more now.
Main reason I ordered one... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't use my computer for gaming so much, anyway. That's what my PS2 is for. And, I'm more interested in using my computer for organizing media (pictures, mp3s, movies) and using it as my MP3 playback server using iHam on iRye. The iMac will serve this purpose very well.
Besides, it looks great.
Can the "Proprietary" Bit. (Score:3, Insightful)
PCs, in their ultimate basic designs, are supposed to work identically--to be a clone. A hand-built PC (like the Athlon box I just built to play what few good games which come out that aren't available for Macs, such as Age of Sail 2 [rocks] or Half Life) is great, but unless EVERYONE used the exact same motherboard and parts from the same manufacturers, they aren't strictly clones. Technically, your home-built is unique and closed to others--proprietary, because only YOU know what's inside it.
And look at store-bought PCs, which are supposed to be clones, but each manufacturer adds a widget or two here and there to add market appeal over other competitors PCs, which also do the same. If you haven't tried to install Windows on a Compaq without using Compaq's own CDs, you have never experienced the true meaning and heartbreak of "proprietary."
And Macs aren't even "closed box" anymore. As far as the iMac goes, Apple doesn't expect you to crack open your iMac anymore than Toastmaster expects you to crack open their toasters. It's for a logical reason (the same reason why you pay a bit more for a Macintosh): Everything you need is already there, from the laptops to the desktops (extra RAM and maybe drive space included). Thinking a Mac is proprietary is like thinking that your Porsche needs a V8 and one of those Calvin-pissing-on-a-BMW logos.
With the exception of the logic board (motherboard), open a Power Mac desktop and you'll find the same Matrox IDE drives, the same nVidia video, the same SDRAM, and similar expandability. The only difference (OS aside) is that the computer is integrated with finer quality than that $50 ATX motherboard we grabbed from "Chips-R-Us." That's what we pay for.
If you use Linux (and I know most of us do), we experience the sheer hell of PC propriety every time we try to install an OS on a store-bought system that's been modified to work with Microsoft Windows and not for any other OS, period.
Remember the old days where every computer maker made a PC and their own OS? Only Apple does that now for mere mortals (Sun, SGI, and other unique non-Windows PCs excluded but acknowledged). Makes me still wish someone would make a PC designed only for the ultimate Geek--the Unix family user, to end this argument.
/.
Re:Plagiarism or coincidence ? (Score:2)
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:3, Insightful)
Ever hear of a warranty? Apple has years of experience of selling and repairing LCD screens. They have the best in the market. Just take a gander at the Cinema Display [apple.com].
Also by your argument regarding tv/dvd combos then no one would buy a notebook computer. Think of the new iMac as a non-mobile notebook computer.
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:3, Insightful)
The thing is - most computer users NEVER open their cases. If they do, it's to add ram or a card (things they can still do on the new iMac), not to disassemble them and reuse parts.
Mac users, especially, have no reason to cannibalise their old machines since every Mac comes with all the components - Apple doesn't sell "bare bones" systems.
It's a whole different arena than the PC market. True, replacements ARE expensive, but I believe Apple does have a good warranty program.
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:3, Informative)
And this is unique to apple... how? (Score:2)
Like always, your decision to purchase a computer should always factor in looks and function with reliability and upgradeability. It's purely a subjective opinion of which end of that scale you should lean towards. YMMV.
Personally, I see that swivel
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:4, Insightful)
I can see your concerns, but
I know this means less control over our own systems, but the Mac crowd is used to getting their whole system in one package - this isn't new AT ALL. It's the PC-clone people that like that aspect, and in terms of Apple's target market, that's a small percentage.
This is why I don't see this post as "interesting", because it's the same "PC's are better because we have more control" argument. Some people don't want control - they want a box (or dome) that sits beautifully on their desk and behaves nicely. This is the Mac market. This will always be the Mac market.
For crying out loud, PC users, GET USED TO IT.
</rant>
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:5, Informative)
Including the 4 PowerBooks, I've owned 7 different Macs (9600, B&W G3, original (rev A) iMac, PB 5300, PB 3400, "WallStreet" G3, "Pismo" G3). None of them have ever had any sort of hardware failure. None. My little sister has been using that Rev A iMac since it was introduced nearly 4 years ago.
I'd say that purchasing Apple equipment is a pretty safe bet.
Of course, there are some people who have problems, but given my experience with Apple hardware, I'd say it's some of the highest quality stuff on the market.
Re:with all the new iMac hub-bub (Score:2)
I beleive the hard drive and optical drives are integrated in all computers; I've not yet seen one where the primary drives are all external. Perhaps you're implying that they are proprietary and can't be upgraded, in which case you are also wrong.
Re:drives slower when vertical? (Score:2, Informative)
Here's some function (Score:3, Insightful)
512M memory?: IMacs come with 256M, upgradable to 1G ... and memory is cheap.
Radeon AIW card?: NVIDIA GeoForce2, combined with Velocity Engine in the CPU.
CD-RW, DVD?: The high-end iMac has this built in, including DVD-write ability.
RAID array of 4 hard drives?: That's the kind of thing IEEE 1394 ports are for.
Beside's which, it's a consumer computer. The functionality it's already got is bordering on overkill.