I don't see why this is labeled flame bait as he pointed out important limitations. I used cingular/at&t and due to gprs i never even thought about using serious netapps through the cellphone due to low speed and high cost. For my current sprint phone I cancelled net features because it was barely used on this type of phone but it's much cheaper and faster. EVDO type networks (Verizon, sprint, etc.) are far better then what AT&T are using. My greatest disappointment about the iphone was the carrie
I wish it was still modded flamebait. The very first statement was blatantly false and misleading and the last was "Lame". That looks like classic flamebait to me.
I've been using EDGE through T-Mobile and it's much faster than GPRS. Not sure how it compares to EVDO and I won't vouch for AT&T's network, but it's misleading to tag the iPhone with "slow GPRS" when it supports EDGE.
EDGE's theoretical maximum is 473 kbps [wikipedia.org], while EVDO's is 2.4 Mbps [wikipedia.org] - five times as fast. Real world performance is more like 800-1200 kbps, which is still four times the real-world performance you can expect from EDGE.
Keep in mind that there are currently two tiers of EVDO in use. Base EVDO tends to run about 300-500kbps. EVDO Rev. A looks closer to what you claimed. For those of us unprivileged who are not covered by Sprint's Rev. A network, it's not such a huge jump from EDGE.
Here [dslreports.com] are some speed test results. myvzw.com is the domain for all Verizon Wireless internet access: 1xRTT (slow), EVDO rev 0, and EVDO rev A.
I work with and test EVDO and EDGE data modems (same model, different carriers), and I can tell you definitely that EVDO, while faster, is NOT 4 times as fast. It's more like 20-30% faster in my experience.
Well, a lot of people seem to get pretty good speeds from Verizon's [dslreports.com] EVDO. The whole first page of test results is >600 kbps - 50% more than EDGE's theoretical maximum.
If you've done this real-world test, I have to ask the followup question. Have you compared the other US 3g technology? Being as the iPhone is pretty much guaranteed not to be available on Verizon, the more relevant question would be whether the 3g speed boost is worth the wait. My "real world" experiences comparing Cingular's EDGE and UMTS has pretty much consisted of "choppy video" versus "clear video." With the exception of downloading LARGE content files, ie if the device was running the iTMS, or possibly streaming media which is generally outside Apple's business model, I can't think of a lot of real situations where the extra bandwidth would be much worth the battery life sacrificed.
EDGE is a better (still slow) version of GPRS, compared to EV-DO and WCDMA/HSDPA. EV-DO and WCDMA/HSDPA are much faster than EDGE. AT&T has deployed HSDPA in many markets and Sprint and Verizon have deployed EV-DO in most markets.. Basically, the iPhone (coming out in mid 2007) uses slow network technology. The replacement (HSDPA) was available in most major (top 10-20) markets with the notable exception of Los Angeles..... at the end of 2006. Now, HSDPA is available in some parts of 2/3 of the state
AT&T is now using HSDPA, which is significantly faster than 1xRTT, EDGE, GPRS, etc. and on par with EV-DO. Much of the network supports it, with a great number of deployments in the past few years. Also, compared to Sprint, AT&T has more 3G coverage in my market (out of the 4 3G networks here, Sprint, Alltel and Verizon EV-DO and Cingular HSDPA, only Verizon and Cingular bother to cover outlying areas).
The worst major carrier (digital broadband wise) is T-Mobile.
Luckily, T-Mobile is better at just about everything else, for a quarter of the price. Sure, I only get EDGE speeds. Then again, I'm not spending $80/month for data access.
I suspect they'll go for a similar model as S60 - that is, anyone can write s/w, but it has to be approved before they'll let it be installable. This service is called Symbian Signed on S60 and it's (somewhat) mandatory on S60 3rd.
I've been early-adopting cell phones since about 1995 and I've never changed a battery since they moved from NiCad batterys. NiMH, LiON et al just don't need replacing that often. Not many people keep their cell phones more than a year or two in Europe because of the massive handset subsidies on contracts so it's just generally not an issue...
Apple asked that other documents such as diagrams, a schematic of the radio, the radio bill of materials and operational descriptions remain private indefinitely. The FCC agreed to the requests.
Anyone else miss the old days when every radio came with a schematic? They were usually under the battery cover or in the manuals. It really helped spark an interest in electronics, at least for me.
Well.... if they were to do that the schematics would be grossly complex now days. You'd have a circuit schematic with 100's of pins per chip.... would be very impractical and useless to all but a dozen people. Besides, the schematic doesn't really say how it works, since all the circuitry is integrated into proprietary IC's. THOSE are the schematics Apple and other manufacturers keep to themselves.
The main reason the FCC doesn't require the print to be on the radio anymore is because most of them were impossible to read anyway.
I'd guess it has more to do with companies with deep pockets wanting to keep their circuits secret.
Actually, I haven't come across ANY recent FCC filings where the schematics are public these days.
Take a trolling of the FCC filings of anything these days, and the "summary" view lists schematics, internal theory of operation, etc, but it says they aren't public. The "detail" view (which lets you grab the filed documents) doesn't even list those. All you can get are the test report, test setup, manual, photos, internal photos, and maybe a couple of letters. Try it on your wifi card, or your cellphone, or your wireless mouse. It's a rare product where the schematic is actually available for free download from the FCC site.
Synthesizers used to come with schematics too. They stopped when it became largely a collection of custom digital chips. I would imagine it's a similar problem with radios and cell phones. The schematic was there so you (or someone) could service it. But with it all being custom stuff there's not much anyone can do.
The Octave line of synths all came with schematics. I know most of the Yamaha analogs and the Korg MS series did as well. I suspect a lot of shops withheld them so you'd have to bring it to them to get it fixed.
But you have to admit that the schematic for the iphone is going to be a lot more complicated that a transistor radio. There for not able to fit on the back battery cover. It would probably need its own book
Vermont doesn't get to play with the new toys like the rest of the kids. Unicel has a firm grasp (sp/grasp/stranglehold) on the GSM network up here. As of current, and for what ever reason, they will also not be selling the iPhone. One would say go with Cingular or T-Mobile or which ever carrier applies, but one can't do that without penalty as well for not being on home network. If 50% of your calls, or more, are in non-network coverage areas for Cingular, you get the 'sorry-we've-dropped-you-as-valued-customer' letter.
You've read a slashdot summary and assumed it was accurate. Thanks for playing.
Read non-sarcastically: it has EDGE. Obviously, 3G will be on the next revision so you can buy it again. That's how Apple works. Not that I mind it entirely, because I always have a fairly new piece of equipment since I'll always be upgrading. A side effect of this is that my Apple products generally don't break because I don't own them long enough. Yes, I'm okay with this because I have gobs of money.
Want to know what the killer app on the iPhone will be?
myspace.com
I'm a teacher, and I can tell you that at least 10% of my students have Sidekicks (or knockoffs), and that is all they do with them.
All.
Day.
Long.
This will be the next status item for teenagers and "trying-to-be-hip" parents everywhere. These are the people who buy a $500 purse and take it to the grocery store, or who buy $150 shoes and walk around with the tags still on. This phone costs no more than 3 pairs of pants for them. I already hear them talking about how much they hate their Sidekicks and how much they think the iPhone will rock. It's on their birthday lists. I have no doubt that Apple will be laughing all the way to the bank on this one, big time.
I'm not saying it has to happen, I'm just saying that I saw it happen with iPods and Sidekicks, and this has got all of the same symptoms.
I'm a Gen X techie, but unlike the other wee nee poseurs on Slashdot, I get a bigger picture. I paid ~300 for a BlackBerry because I wanted a *smart* device that could say take a standard meeting invitation from my email and add that to my standard PIM calendar so I could get a standard alarm when the time draws near. What a disappointment. It is a mediocre phone. It is a dismal web browser. Spam: right to my hip. It doesn't sync my addressbook over bluetooth because RIM crippled the device (no OBEX or BT Sy
Actually, the killer app for the iPhone will most certainly be proper integration of the phone and phone book. I can't believe that it hasn't been done correctly until now. I have a piece-of-sh*t motorola razr and can't even get my dozen contacts information in without a problem. The freaking thing is saying that one individual's name and number are already in, so it won't let me add it again. Unfortunately the name doesn't show up in my contact list, but it shows up as caller ID when he calls me up. I
You're likely a Baby Boomer [wikipedia.org] (born 1946 through 1964). If you're older, you're probably a member of the Silent Generation [wikipedia.org].
People don't care whether their phone has GPRS or EDGE or EVDO or 3G. The points nobody's mentioning here that will make the phone take off are:
Decent resolution camera for a a phone. Sexy touchscreen with multi-touch! This is new to any consumer device, not just phones. Visual voicemail. A first for any phone. Display changes orientation when you turn the device. Again: HAWT. The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly. Built-in iPod functionality that syncs with iTunes, and lists of songs/movies you can "flip" through.
It's not how much memory it has or how fast it communicates, it is the "unquantifiable" that sells things like phones.
The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
This is a huge feature to me. Not that I'm really going to drop all that cash on one. But its ability to zoom in and out from full page view to readable text makes it possible to use a "real" browser on a mobile device without limiting one's self to mobile-friendly sites.
Try an S60 3rd device. They have a great web browser. If it isn't already installed (some of the older devices come with a crappy wap browser), you can download and install it.
I hope you can do similarly with an iPhone when it comes out...
The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
You mean "the promise of more useless shiny".
I'm sure the cultists will go nuts over waiting for huge bloated web pages to slowly download over the trailing edge (not even EDGE) connection, but really... it was hard enough reading a "properly rendered" web page on my old Libretto... which had a better display than the iPhone. Anyone old enough to afford one is gonna need to spring for LASIK to read it.
IMO, most of your points are valid, though probably arguably. I'd especially question that the touchscreen has yet to prove itself viable since I and many others prefer keys especially when using single handedly on the move. However, IMO, this one isn't valid:
> The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
While it does promise what you say, S60 has had this [s60.com] for a while. It even uses the same engine as Apple's Safari, IINM. It's compatible on most(?) of it's 3rd
I'm pretty sure a touch-screen phone which will naturally get smudged easily will stop quite a few people just because of that.
I gotta admit, that's one thing that will initially keep me away from the iPhone.
The iPhone looks great but it also looks like you'll have to treat it very carefully. I don't want to have to worry about it. Now, I have a cheap-ass phone that I don't really care if it gets scratched or smudged as it sits in my backpack. I'm worried about how durable the iPhone is going to be if it isn't sitting in it's soft velvet carrying case. I'd hate my iPod to stop working because it got a scratch over where the iP
Hmmmmm. What part of 'Apple cache'' didn't you read? Sure, distribution is nice. Marketing plans are nice. But it's not the same as slogging MP3 players and MacBook Pros. I doubt Xserve's do very well, despite their margins and accessorizing. Are they making money on media? Perhaps a little. Hardware margins are tight, and they're asking a fat wad of cash for a phone, even with the checklist. I wish them luck, but they'll be bruises.
I read it and I also think you're wrong. Not everybody buys Apple products for their "cache" [sic]. Some of us buy them because they WORK BETTER, and that does not mean "has the most checkbox features".
Not everybody buys Apple products for their "cache" [sic]. Some of us buy them because they WORK BETTER, and that does not mean "has the most checkbox features".
Well; do you know the iPhone works better? It's not like the cellphone market is "virgin". Nokia sold more phone in October, November and December last year (84 million) than Apple has sold Macs in the last 20 years! Apple may well have the best product in the market. But, it's not like it's competition has been stupid, or slow, or is new to the ga
Were these people previously trained to figure out all the little quirks on Windows, or were they new to computers? I'm sure if people used a poorly-made imitation of the iPhone before using the iPhone itself they'd be confused too. And while you are right that the Mac UI isn't perfect, most people who prefer another UI are (in my subjective, but valid and borne out through experience opinion) either (a) overtrained on Windows and afraid of change or (b) programmers who are used enough to thinking like a co
Apple are now selling DRM free tunes. You ask how much music downloads may cost, and although I don't know the answer, I'm not sure how they'd justify DRM'ing music on the iPhone while telling us music should be DRM free for the iPod.
Correction: Apple is now planning to sell DRM-free tunes. As far as I can tell, they aren't doing it yet, and they were unable to answer my question about how much it'd cost to upgrade an album purchased today to DRM-free format when it becomes available.
It's the same music, dumbass. The iPhone is an iPod, among other things. That means the downloads will be 99 cents, or 129 cents if you want a higher compression rate and no DRM. Or $9.99 for an album.
"get it"? What part of slow downloads, captive carrier, snooze yawn feature set, and undecided blood-letting music distribution costs don't you get?
I use a PowerBook. It work. I have a fleet of cell/mobiles, of which many without question are far ahead of Apple's feature list. Beyond device competition there is the signing up with AT&T, that friendly, highly-rated-consumer-love organization that was variously PacBell, AmeriTech, SBC, and so on. Yummy.
Those that ignore history are doomed to be revisited b
Or you could, you know, hook it up to your computer with the built-in iPhone-to-USB cord and sync it to your iTunes, which already has all your music already?
You're not the target market anyway--as nice as it would be for Apple to make a version of iTunes for Linux, it hasn't been done yet. Nonetheless, people who refuse to use commercial software for ideological reasons aren't Apple's target market for obvious reasons--although you'll probably figure out how to run Linux on an iPhone just for the sport of it, so best of luck to you.
At the end of the day, do you think people will care about any of those things? I mean the people who actually buy these kinds of phones?
Personally I think it'll come down to style and price. They'll win on style, but the price will stop your average joe from picking one up. But who knows, maybe that's what Apple wants.
Their computer division has been competing on style for a long time now. They make a profit on each box they sell. I imagine they want the same thing with the phone, because maybe, just m
Windows Mobile already lets you do this. Has GPRS/802.11, and a skype client available is available. I don't understand why people get excited about the iPhone as a geek toy, when really it's being marketed to the same folks that buy the stripped down Razor and iPods. Just as much innovation is happening at HTC and Nokia with phones as with Apple, but I never understood why the main stream news media has such an obsession with Apple.
I agree that it's not marketed at geeks. But I'd be hesitant to call anything that relies on Windows Mobile innovative. I have 3 different devices running some form of Windows Mobile (up to version 5) lying around gathering dust.
Having used the 802.11 "support" in Windows Mobile, it highlights to me *everything* that is wrong with the platform. A multitude of different ways to configure (and misconfigure) it. Patchy support for differing levels of the protocol. Configuration settings that don't "take". Havin
For the most part, the iPhone will probably rely on a closed system for apps. However that does not mean that there will not be any third party developers. From what I understand the iPhone will use a modified version of OSX. So the core of it will be Unix based. That means most developers who develop for the Mac could possibly develop for the iPhone. How they will get their applications onto the machine has not been disclosed. Bear in mind that since it is a modified version of OSX, the need for thir
so it appears that the version sold in Europe could do GPRS/EDGE and GSM 850/900/1800/1900. Whether it will is another matter. (I don't know what would happen if you take a US iPhone to Europe - I don't know what the regulatory issues are if you take a phone from country X to country Y; what happe
In my opinion, I highly beg to differ (this post is long, so please bare with me if you want).
Apple.com has this introductory product description:
iPhone combines three amazing products -- a revolutionary mobile phone, a widescreen iPod with touch controls, and a breakthrough Internet communications device with desktop-class email, web browsing, maps, and searching -- into one small and lightweight handheld device.
Let's look into this for a moment. Keep in mind that Apple is most likely targeting or at least attempting to re-acquire most of the audience that also bought their iPod products:
A revolutionary mobile phone
For us "geeks," this phone is probably nothing but the ordinary. We have already seen devices that surpass their "revolutionary" claims, at least specification wise. But it has no physical keypad. This is important. How usable is this "screen keypad" (something that has been tried, and has failed, before) and how well will the public receive it? I honestly expect that this technology is indeed "revolutionary," since their staple claims are normally their strongest and perform undoubtedly better than their competitors.
A widescreen iPod with touch controls
So Apple could market this as a quasi-evolutionary, no -revolutionary, upgrade to their current iPod line and possibly garner their old audience. Or they could entice the many who have been wishing for a touch-screen iPod with widescreen (the Zune finally dies here) with this product and let them have a phone on the side. Speaking as a "geek," I know I've seen oodles of phones with music players and MP3 capability, but it would be a lie for me to say that the majority of them are worth replacing an iPod or similar (for reference, check the RAZR with iTunes line and see what I mean...)
and a breakthrough Internet communications device with desktop-class email, web browsing, maps, and searching
Many people here have already bashed this phone for its somewhat antiquated connections to the Internet. But how many people in the United States use the full power of mobile internet on their phone? I know few who do more than purchase ringtones and other commodities for their device (if even that), and maybe do a quick search for something of the moment, like movie times (which are carrier-catered in most cases). The iPhone integrates this experience straight into the UI so a normal person doesn't even have to really open a browser to do the simple things. Want to search for a location? Just "tap" the search button. Need to find movie times? Can probably be configured there too. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is are OS-wide search functions built-in, which is something that few, if any, independent phone carriers have been able to accomplish (at least not with smartphones, which are still in their infancy).
Its obvious that the iPhone is up against lots of veterans in the field. But Apple is the MASTER of usability, which is what makes the bulk of the phone experience. This phone should and deserves to do very well.
Speaking as a "geek," I know I've seen oodles of phones with music players and MP3 capability, but it would be a lie for me to say that the majority of them are worth replacing an iPod or similar (for reference, check the RAZR with iTunes line and see what I mean...)
Er.. the capacity of the iPhone is what, 4 gigs? Maybe 8 if you splurge? I have twice that much on my iPod, and my music collection is nothing compared to what my friends have. That wide screen is an invitation to fill it up with video, but with the iPhone's limited capacity, you can only hold enough video for one or two plane trips.
My phone might not be a very good music player, but at least it has an SD slot so I can expand it!
Er.. the capacity of the iPhone is what, 4 gigs? Maybe 8 if you splurge? I have twice that much on my iPod, and my music collection is nothing compared to what my friends have. That wide screen is an invitation to fill it up with video, but with the iPhone's limited capacity, you can only hold enough video for one or two plane trips.
This is what I was trying to get at. This is the mentality that most of us who are well aware of other options will take; we have a good phone (that could double as a music player if we want), the iPod is good, the camera is good; why do I need an iPhone? If everyone had that mentality already, Apple would not have even dreamed of attempting to enter such a fierce area of competition (it's not like anyone can make a cell phone and wait for the money, you know!) If most people were more cautious about the
The only possible and marginal exception to this would be Verizon's solution, but I cannot comment on something I do not know (can it even play non-DRM'ed audio files?) Secondly, how easy is it to get a decently encoded MPEG or AVI on your phone with a 2.2" display AT MOST and probably using some in-house, proprietary software, if any?
My Verizon phone is the Samsung SCH-U740, and it supports MP3 and WMA files (the latter with or without DRM). For video, it uses 3GP, a standard format based on MPEG-4 that you can produce with several free encoders.
Getting the files onto the phone is as easy as mounting a microSD card and copying them into the appropriate directories, but you probably need to use sync software (e.g. Windows Media Player) if you don't have a card reader.
For one, most cell-phone music players are bad. Very bad. For example, the Digital Audio Player application on most Motorola phones has innate trouble finding MP3s correctly!
Totally agree with that. Indeed, I was watching my boss trying to upload some music onto his Nokia N95 and it looked like an unbelievably frustrating experience. The point is that geeks will have to learn to think a little more outside the box on this one. In any market (not just the handset market) you cannot automatically assume that functionality = market success. It just doesn't work like that and Apple almost certainly better than any of us at working this one out. Indeed, they have shown in the past
Fair enough. EVDO coverage is, however, widespread enough [evdomaps.com] that it'd make plenty of sense to release an iPhone that could take advantage of it - but Apple sold out to Cingular, so they can't.
There's a lot more 3G than you think... Sprint and Verizon have 3G in nearly every major market they cover. Cingular is getting there. They all cover the majority of their top markets. I don't know about Sprint or Verizon in general, but from what I understand Cingular has been starting with the core areas of a market then pushing out to suburbs/rural areas. Since fall 2006, Cingular has gone from covering the two big cities in my area, to the more distant mid sized cities (75-150k), to the small cities/t
omg they spoiled it again to enter the "handheld" market You are right. It is not acceptable to have no UMTS or at least EDGE support for this price. I do not know whats up with apple, I am really surprised that they did not even add last years technology.
For this price and the brand Apple I would expect EDGE/UMTS and the ability to have third party software on the phone like small java apps that make your live easier. I would expect at least a developer kit like you can have for Palm, M$ or Symbian based syste
Come on, I doubt this is going to be as big as people think. Certainly not big enough to be trolling through FCC filings for the tiniest bit of spec info to feed people's Apple lust. I have a feeling this phone will go the way of the Newton. Over-priced and before its time...
The Newton was out-of-left field. The iPhone is building on the gigantic success of the iPod, another handheld media device. The iPod in it's earlier days sold for as much as $500 for larger models... and people paid it. Today, the de f
Entropy requires no maintenance.
-- Markoff Chaney
well-thats-not-very-exciting (Score:5, Funny)
At least it has wireless!
Re:well-thats-not-very-exciting (Score:5, Informative)
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I know a lot of people who frown about what the iPhone can and can't do... but then they say they're buying one anyway.
I'm waiting for version 2
Re:well-thats-not-very-exciting (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:well-thats-not-very-exciting (Score:5, Funny)
iPhone
Re:well-thats-not-very-exciting (Score:5, Funny)
This feature is not called "shuffle"... (Score:3, Funny)
-- Terry
Important Points (Score:2)
For my current sprint phone I cancelled net features because it was barely used on this type of phone but it's much cheaper and faster. EVDO type networks (Verizon, sprint, etc.) are far better then what AT&T are using. My greatest disappointment about the iphone was the carrie
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Important Points (Score:5, Informative)
The very first statement was blatantly false and misleading and the last was "Lame". That looks like classic flamebait to me.
Welcome to Slashdot, newbie. [slashdot.org]
Re:Important Points (Score:5, Interesting)
Very interesting considering what some are predicting for the iPhone.
Re:Important Points (Score:4, Funny)
Raise your hand if
Raise your hand if
Raise your hand if
Raise your hand if
There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh?
I'll say. I've never seen anyone with four hands.
Re:Important Points (Score:5, Funny)
EDGE is much faster than GPRS (Score:5, Informative)
EVDO is much faster (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:EVDO is much faster (Score:5, Informative)
Re:EVDO is much faster (Score:5, Informative)
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Maybe the network is just slow in your area?
Re:EVDO is much faster (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:EVDO is much faster (Score:4, Insightful)
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Basically, the iPhone (coming out in mid 2007) uses slow network technology. The replacement (HSDPA) was available in most major (top 10-20) markets with the notable exception of Los Angeles..... at the end of 2006. Now, HSDPA is available in some parts of 2/3 of the state
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Re:Important Points (Score:4, Informative)
The worst major carrier (digital broadband wise) is T-Mobile.
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From what I've read, this is far from certain.
I suspect they'll go for a similar model as S60 - that is, anyone can write s/w, but it has to be approved before they'll let it be installable. This service is called Symbian Signed on S60 and it's (somewhat) mandatory on S60 3rd.
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Radio Schematic (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone else miss the old days when every radio came with a schematic? They were usually under the battery cover or in the manuals. It really helped spark an interest in electronics, at least for me.
Re:Radio Schematic (Score:5, Insightful)
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The main reason the FCC doesn't require the print to be on the radio anymore is because most of them were impossible to read anyway.
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Re:Radio Schematic (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I haven't come across ANY recent FCC filings where the schematics are public these days.
Take a trolling of the FCC filings of anything these days, and the "summary" view lists schematics, internal theory of operation, etc, but it says they aren't public. The "detail" view (which lets you grab the filed documents) doesn't even list those. All you can get are the test report, test setup, manual, photos, internal photos, and maybe a couple of letters. Try it on your wifi card, or your cellphone, or your wireless mouse. It's a rare product where the schematic is actually available for free download from the FCC site.
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Well, if the iPhone is anything like the iPod, it may well have a schematic under the battery, but you'd never know.
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I agree with you.
But you have to admit that the schematic for the iphone is going to be a lot more complicated that a transistor radio. There for not able to fit on the back battery cover. It would probably need its own book
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too bad (Score:3, Informative)
Re:too bad (Score:5, Funny)
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I grew up there. A wonderful place to grow up. A great place to visit. But I don't think I could live there anymore.
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WTF (Score:2)
Congratulations (Score:2)
Read non-sarcastically: it has EDGE. Obviously, 3G will be on the next revision so you can buy it again. That's how Apple works. Not that I mind it entirely, because I always have a fairly new piece of equipment since I'll always be upgrading. A side effect of this is that my Apple products generally don't break because I don't own them long enough. Yes, I'm okay with this because I have gobs of money.
I love the tech industry.
another prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
myspace.com
I'm a teacher, and I can tell you that at least 10% of my students have Sidekicks (or knockoffs), and that is all they do with them.
All.
Day.
Long.
This will be the next status item for teenagers and "trying-to-be-hip" parents everywhere. These are the people who buy a $500 purse and take it to the grocery store, or who buy $150 shoes and walk around with the tags still on. This phone costs no more than 3 pairs of pants for them. I already hear them talking about how much they hate their Sidekicks and how much they think the iPhone will rock. It's on their birthday lists. I have no doubt that Apple will be laughing all the way to the bank on this one, big time.
I'm not saying it has to happen, I'm just saying that I saw it happen with iPods and Sidekicks, and this has got all of the same symptoms.
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What a disappointment. It is a mediocre phone. It is a dismal web browser. Spam: right to my hip. It doesn't sync my addressbook over bluetooth because RIM crippled the device (no OBEX or BT Sy
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You're likely a Baby Boomer [wikipedia.org] (born 1946 through 1964). If you're older, you're probably a member of the Silent Generation [wikipedia.org].
Again /. readers miss the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Decent resolution camera for a a phone.
Sexy touchscreen with multi-touch! This is new to any consumer device, not just phones.
Visual voicemail. A first for any phone.
Display changes orientation when you turn the device. Again: HAWT.
The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
Built-in iPod functionality that syncs with iTunes, and lists of songs/movies you can "flip" through.
It's not how much memory it has or how fast it communicates, it is the "unquantifiable" that sells things like phones.
Re:Again /. readers miss the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I hope you can do similarly with an iPhone when it comes out...
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You mean "the promise of more useless shiny".
I'm sure the cultists will go nuts over waiting for huge bloated web pages to slowly download over the trailing edge (not even EDGE) connection, but really... it was hard enough reading a "properly rendered" web page on my old Libretto... which had a better display than the iPhone. Anyone old enough to afford one is gonna need to spring for LASIK to read it.
Well, maybe not tha
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However, IMO, this one isn't valid
> The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
While it does promise what you say, S60 has had this [s60.com] for a while. It even uses the same engine as Apple's Safari, IINM. It's compatible on most(?) of it's 3rd
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I'm pretty sure a touch-screen phone which will naturally get smudged easily will stop quite a few people just because of that.
I gotta admit, that's one thing that will initially keep me away from the iPhone.
The iPhone looks great but it also looks like you'll have to treat it very carefully. I don't want to have to worry about it. Now, I have a cheap-ass phone that I don't really care if it gets scratched or smudged as it sits in my backpack. I'm worried about how durable the iPhone is going to be if it isn't sitting in it's soft velvet carrying case. I'd hate my iPod to stop working because it got a scratch over where the iP
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Loook shhiiinnyyy (Score:2)
Re:Apple will still need lots of luck (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Apple will still need lots of luck (Score:5, Insightful)
I read it and I also think you're wrong. Not everybody buys Apple products for their "cache" [sic]. Some of us buy them because they WORK BETTER, and that does not mean "has the most checkbox features".
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Well; do you know the iPhone works better? It's not like the cellphone market is "virgin". Nokia sold more phone in October, November and December last year (84 million) than Apple has sold Macs in the last 20 years! Apple may well have the best product in the market. But, it's not like it's competition has been stupid, or slow, or is new to the ga
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Re:Apple will still need lots of luck (Score:5, Funny)
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And I do own a Mac Pro and Macbook so I'm no troll.
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Lame.
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What part of slow downloads, captive carrier, snooze yawn feature set, and undecided blood-letting music distribution costs don't you get?
I use a PowerBook. It work. I have a fleet of cell/mobiles, of which many without question are far ahead of Apple's feature list. Beyond device competition there is the signing up with AT&T, that friendly, highly-rated-consumer-love organization that was variously PacBell, AmeriTech, SBC, and so on. Yummy.
Those that ignore history are doomed to be revisited b
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Or you could, you know, hook it up to your computer with the built-in iPhone-to-USB cord and sync it to your iTunes, which already has all your music already?
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Do any of those things matter? (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally I think it'll come down to style and price. They'll win on style, but the price will stop your average joe from picking one up. But who knows, maybe that's what Apple wants.
Their computer division has been competing on style for a long time now. They make a profit on each box they sell. I imagine they want the same thing with the phone, because maybe, just m
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Dev Kit? (Score:5, Informative)
Features I'm counting on the iPhone to not have.
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As does S60 which, IINM, has a larger market share.
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But I'd be hesitant to call anything that relies on Windows Mobile innovative. I have 3 different devices running some form of Windows Mobile (up to version 5) lying around gathering dust.
Having used the 802.11 "support" in Windows Mobile, it highlights to me *everything* that is wrong with the platform. A multitude of different ways to configure (and misconfigure) it. Patchy support for differing levels of the protocol. Configuration settings that don't "take". Havin
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The current iPhone tech specs page [apple.com] says:
so it appears that the version sold in Europe could do GPRS/EDGE and GSM 850/900/1800/1900. Whether it will is another matter. (I don't know what would happen if you take a US iPhone to Europe - I don't know what the regulatory issues are if you take a phone from country X to country Y; what happe
Re:Low tech phone (Score:5, Interesting)
In my opinion, I highly beg to differ (this post is long, so please bare with me if you want).
Apple.com has this introductory product description:
Let's look into this for a moment. Keep in mind that Apple is most likely targeting or at least attempting to re-acquire most of the audience that also bought their iPod products:
For us "geeks," this phone is probably nothing but the ordinary. We have already seen devices that surpass their "revolutionary" claims, at least specification wise. But it has no physical keypad. This is important. How usable is this "screen keypad" (something that has been tried, and has failed, before) and how well will the public receive it? I honestly expect that this technology is indeed "revolutionary," since their staple claims are normally their strongest and perform undoubtedly better than their competitors.
So Apple could market this as a quasi-evolutionary, no -revolutionary, upgrade to their current iPod line and possibly garner their old audience. Or they could entice the many who have been wishing for a touch-screen iPod with widescreen (the Zune finally dies here) with this product and let them have a phone on the side. Speaking as a "geek," I know I've seen oodles of phones with music players and MP3 capability, but it would be a lie for me to say that the majority of them are worth replacing an iPod or similar (for reference, check the RAZR with iTunes line and see what I mean...)
Many people here have already bashed this phone for its somewhat antiquated connections to the Internet. But how many people in the United States use the full power of mobile internet on their phone? I know few who do more than purchase ringtones and other commodities for their device (if even that), and maybe do a quick search for something of the moment, like movie times (which are carrier-catered in most cases). The iPhone integrates this experience straight into the UI so a normal person doesn't even have to really open a browser to do the simple things. Want to search for a location? Just "tap" the search button. Need to find movie times? Can probably be configured there too. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is are OS-wide search functions built-in, which is something that few, if any, independent phone carriers have been able to accomplish (at least not with smartphones, which are still in their infancy).
Its obvious that the iPhone is up against lots of veterans in the field. But Apple is the MASTER of usability, which is what makes the bulk of the phone experience. This phone should and deserves to do very well.
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Speaking as a "geek," I know I've seen oodles of phones with music players and MP3 capability, but it would be a lie for me to say that the majority of them are worth replacing an iPod or similar (for reference, check the RAZR with iTunes line and see what I mean...)
Er.. the capacity of the iPhone is what, 4 gigs? Maybe 8 if you splurge? I have twice that much on my iPod, and my music collection is nothing compared to what my friends have. That wide screen is an invitation to fill it up with video, but with the iPhone's limited capacity, you can only hold enough video for one or two plane trips.
My phone might not be a very good music player, but at least it has an SD slot so I can expand it!
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Er.. the capacity of the iPhone is what, 4 gigs? Maybe 8 if you splurge? I have twice that much on my iPod, and my music collection is nothing compared to what my friends have. That wide screen is an invitation to fill it up with video, but with the iPhone's limited capacity, you can only hold enough video for one or two plane trips.
This is what I was trying to get at. This is the mentality that most of us who are well aware of other options will take; we have a good phone (that could double as a music player if we want), the iPod is good, the camera is good; why do I need an iPhone? If everyone had that mentality already, Apple would not have even dreamed of attempting to enter such a fierce area of competition (it's not like anyone can make a cell phone and wait for the money, you know!) If most people were more cautious about the
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The only possible and marginal exception to this would be Verizon's solution, but I cannot comment on something I do not know (can it even play non-DRM'ed audio files?) Secondly, how easy is it to get a decently encoded MPEG or AVI on your phone with a 2.2" display AT MOST and probably using some in-house, proprietary software, if any?
My Verizon phone is the Samsung SCH-U740, and it supports MP3 and WMA files (the latter with or without DRM). For video, it uses 3GP, a standard format based on MPEG-4 that you can produce with several free encoders.
Getting the files onto the phone is as easy as mounting a microSD card and copying them into the appropriate directories, but you probably need to use sync software (e.g. Windows Media Player) if you don't have a card reader.
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For one, most cell-phone music players are bad. Very bad. For example, the Digital Audio Player application on most Motorola phones has innate trouble finding MP3s correctly!
Totally agree with that. Indeed, I was watching my boss trying to upload some music onto his Nokia N95 and it looked like an unbelievably frustrating experience. The point is that geeks will have to learn to think a little more outside the box on this one. In any market (not just the handset market) you cannot automatically assume that functionality = market success. It just doesn't work like that and Apple almost certainly better than any of us at working this one out. Indeed, they have shown in the past
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I most certainly not "bare" with you. This is Slashdot.
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We put "2000" after it, instead? :-)
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I don't know about Sprint or Verizon in general, but from what I understand Cingular has been starting with the core areas of a market then pushing out to suburbs/rural areas. Since fall 2006, Cingular has gone from covering the two big cities in my area, to the more distant mid sized cities (75-150k), to the small cities/t
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IT HAS EDGE (Score:2)
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You are right. It is not acceptable to have no UMTS or at least EDGE support for this price.
I do not know whats up with apple, I am really surprised that they did not even add last years technology.
For this price and the brand Apple I would expect EDGE/UMTS and the ability to have third party software on the
phone like small java apps that make your live easier. I would expect at least a developer kit like you can have for
Palm, M$ or Symbian based syste
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The Newton was out-of-left field. The iPhone is building on the gigantic success of the iPod, another handheld media device. The iPod in it's earlier days sold for as much as $500 for larger models... and people paid it. Today, the de f