I was first in line to get this thing downloaded. It seems identical to the Mac version, including my biggest PET peeve on my Mac OS ( please note I am a multi OS person). The window does not expand to fill the whole screen. Am I missing something here?
The window does not expand to fill the whole screen. Am I missing something here?
The Mac OS and the QuickTime APIs have no concept of a "Multiple Document Interface" as Microsoft calls it. MDI is a Microsoft Windows exclusive concept that how MS originally got around some of Apple's early "look and feel" litigation. There is also some historical reasons for why Apple never adopted this kind of interface.
When Multifinder was introduced to an earlier Mac OS, it was considered desirable for a user to see content from windows between applications. Macs previously used "desk accessories" to approximate multitasking before, and this UI decision helped smooth the transition. Letting applications only have window scale control, rather than the full screen, eventually allowed Apple to discontinue the DA concept in favor of microapplications.
In addition, as the Mac OS developed, Apple started advocating drag-and-drop data manipulation. This requires that both the source window and destination window be visible for a drag operation to occur; this continued emphasis is why OS X now has the trash can in the Dock and Panther includes an "Expose" feature to make all windows visible at once.
Mac users are accustomed to bouncing between applications readily while most Windows apps seem to be designed for exclusive, one at a time use. Other interface quirks, like floating verses anchored toolbars and the global menubar, are extensions of this differing emphasis in multitasking.
...Apple started advocating drag-and-drop data manipulation. This requires that both the source window and destination window be visible for a drag operation to occur
True, but in Windows, you can drag the data and hold it over a taskbar button, and that app will become active. So drag and drop still works with maximized windows.
True, but in Windows, you can drag the data and hold it over a taskbar button, and that app will become active. So drag and drop still works with maximized windows.
That is less intuitive that just dragging to where you want something to go. Like one text selection in one application to somewhere in a body of text in another application. Or photos in iPhoto to clips in iMovie.
Plus, I can never get drag-and-drop to do what I want it to do in Windows. It always does something unexpected with the content, d
Yeah I really wish they'd figure that out in windows. Half the time I drag something into, say, a word doc, I end up with an icon in my doc. When I double-click it, then it opens the embedded thing in the other app. Now I as a user would expect to see a printable representation show up there.
And as for dragging over the taskbar button - I didn't even know you could do that till about a year ago. Frankly it had never occured to me to try.
Plus, I can never get drag-and-drop to do what I want it to do in Windows. It always does something unexpected with the content, document, or whatever I am dragging.
That used to drive me nuts, too, until I re-trained my fingers to always drag with the right mouse button. Then, you get a pop-up menu from the receiving application so you can tell it what to do with your stuff.
The Mac OS and the QuickTime APIs have no concept of a "Multiple Document Interface" as Microsoft calls it.
That's fantastic but MDI has nothing to do with maximizing a window. The point he was making is that Apple isn't following the windowing conventions of the target window manager. Mac users bitch and moan when Windows apps are ported to the Mac but don't follow the Mac UI look and feel. Now Apple ports Mac software to windows and windows users bitch that it doesn't work like a windows app (and r
Apple has ported an application with a universally lauded user interface to Windows with nary a change to be seen. Windows users now have the opportunity to use one of the finest user interfaces currently available. They've got no business complaining that it's lame because it doesn't suck in the ways they're accustomed to.
Learn to do things in a better way.
Your better way isn't my better way. I expect all the applications to be consistent in their appearance and function when I use a computer.
You said: > I expect all the applications to be consistent in their appearance and function when I use a computer.
You must be a terribly, terribly disappointed person, if you're truly a Windows user. It was only two years ago that it was observed that in three different programs in the Windows Office suite, selecting a chunk of text and then hitting the backspace button DID THREE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
So... is there some hypocracy there? I'm not sure I'd call it hypocracy, I think I'd call it *rev
You must be a terribly, terribly disappointed person, if you're truly a Windows user. It was only two years ago that it was observed that in three different programs in the Windows Office suite, selecting a chunk of text and then hitting the backspace button DID THREE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
That's one program out of millions. Care to share the context of when the delete key was being pressed? It could be that was the best and expected action for the context in which it was used. An example would
Yes, it definitely makes since to have double clicking on the title bar not suck in the usual way (switch between a windowed position and a full-screen view) and instead work very usefully (switching between my windowed position and Apple's specially chosen windowed position)
I'm so glad Apple's around to tell us these things. Lord knows what I was thinking, wanting to see more of the iTunes listbox by making the window bigger. Silly me.
Anyway, it's obviously far more efficient for me to manually drag th
And it lets us windows lusers 'bounce between applications' just as readily as any Mac user.
Frankly I prefer a GUI that let's ME decide if I want an app to fill the whole screen or not. If I want things to be tiled or cascading or whatever then *I* can make that choice. Think different, yall.
I also kinda feel Apple should conform to the Windows standard if they want to release Windows programs. Everyone else does, it's not about conforming to the Evil Empire's laws, it's about usability. Why do I need 99
Hey, those 'applications' don't even behave correctly on a Windows machine:(
I think anyone who is actually keen on the Windows system as a serious environment will have replaced iExplorer with Mozilla and replaced Media Player with Winamp 2.7x in about 2 seconds flat.
Ok, frankly you should remove winamp from your pc now! WMP? Oh, I suppose that shold go too... I'm afraid you're simply feeling the pain of using a cool user friendly GUI while jumping into microsoft app hell;-)
Because seeing all those other windows behind the one window I want to concentrate on is a distraction. It's like in the real world I often clear my desk of clutter to concentrate on one thing. Maximizing a window to fullscreen does that instantly for me.
I realize you truly believe what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from having used Windows since the 3.0 days as well as OS/2 2.1 through 4.0 and various Linux desktop environments. However, I must point out that you're really just fooling yourself into believing that maximizing windows is a normal and productive thing. I know this because I've been there.
I've been using Macs since the 10.1 days and absolutely love the UI. The OS X UI is built with multitasking in mind. Windows hav
Maybe that explains why there is so much clutter on my desk, but I still manage to get work done.
It's because I use a Mac!
You wrote: Because seeing all those other windows behind the one window I want to concentrate on is a distraction. It's like in the real world I often clear my desk of clutter to concentrate on one thing.
The Mac OS and the QuickTime APIs have no concept of a "Multiple Document Interface"
And MDI has nothing to do with maximizing or not maximizing a window; it relates to whether a window can have child windows contained totally within the parent window as a subspace. Asshat.
Well overall I agree that MDI was mischaracterized by the original post. I'd suggest you might get more people to consider that fact more seriously by omitting the word "Asshat" from the end of your reply.
while most Windows apps seem to be designed for exclusive, one at a time use.
No, most Windows apps are designed for Alt-Tab use, or at least taskbar task-switching use. You maximize all your app windows, then rapidly toggle through them with Alt-tab (or if you're a noob, with the Taskbar buttons). Both multitasking paradigms are more efficient than Apple's "dig through a pile of haphazardly stacked windows to get to the one I want, repeat as necessary" design. That's why Windows users are so peeved a
I love this but Windows version doesn't maximize.. (Score:1)
blade
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:5, Insightful)
The Mac OS and the QuickTime APIs have no concept of a "Multiple Document Interface" as Microsoft calls it. MDI is a Microsoft Windows exclusive concept that how MS originally got around some of Apple's early "look and feel" litigation. There is also some historical reasons for why Apple never adopted this kind of interface.
When Multifinder was introduced to an earlier Mac OS, it was considered desirable for a user to see content from windows between applications. Macs previously used "desk accessories" to approximate multitasking before, and this UI decision helped smooth the transition. Letting applications only have window scale control, rather than the full screen, eventually allowed Apple to discontinue the DA concept in favor of microapplications.
In addition, as the Mac OS developed, Apple started advocating drag-and-drop data manipulation. This requires that both the source window and destination window be visible for a drag operation to occur; this continued emphasis is why OS X now has the trash can in the Dock and Panther includes an "Expose" feature to make all windows visible at once.
Mac users are accustomed to bouncing between applications readily while most Windows apps seem to be designed for exclusive, one at a time use. Other interface quirks, like floating verses anchored toolbars and the global menubar, are extensions of this differing emphasis in multitasking.
Mod Parent Up! (Score:1)
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
True, but in Windows, you can drag the data and hold it over a taskbar button, and that app will become active. So drag and drop still works with maximized windows.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
That is less intuitive that just dragging to where you want something to go. Like one text selection in one application to somewhere in a body of text in another application. Or photos in iPhoto to clips in iMovie.
Plus, I can never get drag-and-drop to do what I want it to do in Windows. It always does something unexpected with the content, d
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
And as for dragging over the taskbar button - I didn't even know you could do that till about a year ago. Frankly it had never occured to me to try.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
That used to drive me nuts, too, until I re-trained my fingers to always drag with the right mouse button. Then, you get a pop-up menu from the receiving application so you can tell it what to do with your stuff.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:1)
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2, Insightful)
That's fantastic but MDI has nothing to do with maximizing a window. The point he was making is that Apple isn't following the windowing conventions of the target window manager. Mac users bitch and moan when Windows apps are ported to the Mac but don't follow the Mac UI look and feel. Now Apple ports Mac software to windows and windows users bitch that it doesn't work like a windows app (and r
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
Your better way isn't my better way. I expect all the applications to be consistent in their appearance and function when I use a computer.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
True, it's not a contest, but he's ahead on points (Score:2)
> I expect all the applications to be consistent in their appearance and function when I use a computer.
You must be a terribly, terribly disappointed person, if you're truly a Windows user. It was only two years ago that it was observed that in three different programs in the Windows Office suite, selecting a chunk of text and then hitting the backspace button DID THREE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
So... is there some hypocracy there? I'm not sure I'd call it hypocracy, I think I'd call it *rev
Re:True, it's not a contest, but he's ahead on poi (Score:2)
That's one program out of millions. Care to share the context of when the delete key was being pressed? It could be that was the best and expected action for the context in which it was used. An example would
Have you *used* the damn thing? (Score:1)
I'm so glad Apple's around to tell us these things. Lord knows what I was thinking, wanting to see more of the iTunes listbox by making the window bigger. Silly me.
Anyway, it's obviously far more efficient for me to manually drag th
We call it alt-tab (Score:2)
Frankly I prefer a GUI that let's ME decide if I want an app to fill the whole screen or not. If I want things to be tiled or cascading or whatever then *I* can make that choice. Think different, yall.
I also kinda feel Apple should conform to the Windows standard if they want to release Windows programs. Everyone else does, it's not about conforming to the Evil Empire's laws, it's about usability. Why do I need 99
Re:Er, why? MS doesn't play by apple's law.... (Score:2)
I think anyone who is actually keen on the Windows system as a serious environment will have replaced iExplorer with Mozilla and replaced Media Player with Winamp 2.7x in about 2 seconds flat.
Re:We call it alt-tab (Score:2)
I'm afraid you're simply feeling the pain of using a cool user friendly GUI while jumping into microsoft app hell
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:1)
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
It also gives me maximum working space instantly.
Two things which make me more productive.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
I realize you truly believe what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from having used Windows since the 3.0 days as well as OS/2 2.1 through 4.0 and various Linux desktop environments. However, I must point out that you're really just fooling yourself into believing that maximizing windows is a normal and productive thing. I know this because I've been there.
I've been using Macs since the 10.1 days and absolutely love the UI. The OS X UI is built with multitasking in mind. Windows hav
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:1)
It's because I use a Mac!
You wrote: Because seeing all those other windows behind the one window I want to concentrate on is a distraction. It's like in the real world I often clear my desk of clutter to concentrate on one thing.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:2)
And MDI has nothing to do with maximizing or not maximizing a window; it relates to whether a window can have child windows contained totally within the parent window as a subspace. Asshat.
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:1)
Now if it was a tinfoil Asshat....
Re:I love this but Windows version doesn't maximiz (Score:1)
No, most Windows apps are designed for Alt-Tab use, or at least taskbar task-switching use. You maximize all your app windows, then rapidly toggle through them with Alt-tab (or if you're a noob, with the Taskbar buttons). Both multitasking paradigms are more efficient than Apple's "dig through a pile of haphazardly stacked windows to get to the one I want, repeat as necessary" design. That's why Windows users are so peeved a