Apple Faces Class Action Lawsuit For Shrinking Storage Space In iOS 8 325
An anonymous reader notes that Apple is being sued over claims that iOS 8 uses too much storage space on the company's devices.
"Ever wonder why there never is enough space on your iPhone or iPad? A lawsuit filed this week against Apple Inc. alleges that upgrades to the iOS 8 operating system are to blame, and that the company has misled customers about it. In the legal complaint filed in California, Miami residents Paul Orshan and Christopher Endara accuse Apple of "storage capacity misrepresentations and omissions" relating to Apple's 8 GB and 16GB iPhones, iPads and iPods. Orshan has two iPhone 5 and two iPads while Endara had purchased an iPhone 6. They contend the upgrades to the operating system end up taking up as much as 23 percent of the storage space on their devices."
MicroSD card? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why TF don't Apple have a slot for microSD card ike most smartphones these days.
Anyway I gave up on Apple in 1988
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially when you can get the same $200 worth storage for $10.
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the original question was rhetorical, but there are two simple answers to why Apple doesn't include SD card slots in their phones:
I should also note that the GGP said he/she "gave up on Apple in 1988." That's absolutely their right, but I don't think it gives them much credibility (which should be based on detailed time spent with the different options) for a comparative analysis of the value of Apple products in 2015. If I said "Lunix is the suxor because I tried Yggdrasil and XFCE couldn't make my sound card work," I don't think you would give me much credibility in the present day.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple doesn't charge anyone for their software updates, either on iOS or (these days) OS X.
Well they should pay the customer for these updates as they degrade the idevice's performance, horribly. If Microsoft winxp can last ten years without major os upgrades we should be able to go without an ios version x+1 upgrade every 9 months or so?
Re: (Score:3)
So don't install the update?
Or, Apple should allow downgrades. If I update to a newer iOS and later find out that it consumes too much storage, or that its too slow, I should be able to downgrade to what I had.
After the update, apple locks my phone OS version to the newer OS without giving me an option to restore my phone to the state I purchased it in. Frankly, I find that ridiculous.
(No, jailbreaking doesn't help because the downgrade is blocked at the bootrom level. And even if it did, I don't want to rely on exploiting security bu
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
No technical reason Apple couldn't address those issues. It's their OS and their device and they can put any filesystem they want on the card and use any management technique they care to including union directories so it doesn't matter where the photo is stored. They clearly just didn't want to.
My (old) Android phone just defaults to putting pictures and video on the SD card since that's nearly always the right thing.
Re: (Score:3)
IIRC the SD card could only be used for documents or media, while the partition space usable by apps and the OS was still fixed to onboard.
This hasn't been the case since 2.3, which was released in early 2011. The user experience with SD cards is pretty good on Android. By default stuff saves to the phone's internal memory and you just use the SD card for your own data like music and movies. You can just copy it on like you would copying it to a USB flash drive, and the phone indexes and sorts it all out for you. Optionally apps can request permission to put data on the card as well.
They make their money on selling their hardware on which their proprietary software has been thoroughly tested and certified.
So do many other companies, but Apple still charges way, way
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know what phone you had, but my old but still in use Android offers to move applications to the SD card (or back to main flash). I'm sure Apple could have figured it out if they wanted to.
That leaves teh moneys.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Informative)
The quality of removable storage media, especially SD cards (and derivative formats) varies drastically. Apple likes to ensure a consistent ecosystem so that all users have as consistent an experience as possible.
Apple wants to avoid cases where users blame Apple for sluggish application performance, skipping music/video, bugs, etc... that are a result of something that Apple can't control or exert influence over.
Re: (Score:3)
Apple wants to avoid cases where users blame Apple for sluggish application performance, skipping music/video, bugs, etc... that are a result of something that Apple can't control or exert influence over.
Than how about they add some memory dedicated to the OS? The stuff is not that expensive these days...
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Insightful)
Than how about they add some memory dedicated to the OS? The stuff is not that expensive these days...
They do. It's part of that 16GB that they advertise. This is how pretty much all devices are advertised. Do laptops and desktops come with a separate disk for the OS? When they advertise the size of the hard drive do they subtract the size of the OS? How about other brands of phones or tablets?
These people are completely ignorant about what they are suing for, in which case they have no business suing, or are suing just to sue (or because their lawyers are hoping to turn it into a class action suit, settle, and rake in millions while a bunch of people get 50 cents each), in which case they still have no business suing.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
They do. It's part of that 16GB that they advertise. This is how pretty much all devices are advertised. Do laptops and desktops come with a separate disk for the OS? When they advertise the size of the hard drive do they subtract the size of the OS? How about other brands of phones or tablets?
Laptops generally have a lot more memory than 16 or 32GB, so it's not an issue. When it becomes an issue, as with mobile devices, this should be compensated with more memory to dedicate to OS.
PC / laptop vs. mobile devices? Apples and oranges.
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft and others were forced to change how they advertise there devices because of complaints of how storage is used by the OS. While I agree this lawsuit is idiotic vendors really should be more forthcoming with information like storage, it isn't an insignificant amount that is taken on devices in this form factor and the average consumer doesn't know that he isn't really getting 8GB for photos and games, it wouldn't hurt there sales to be more open and honest, e.g. Microsoft now puts it directly on there site and even provides a table of how much storage is user available for each device. Would it really kill apple to do the same? currently the only thing apple adds is "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less."
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft and others were forced to change how they advertise there devices because of complaints of how storage is used by the OS.
Were they? Their own website lists the models as per the harddisk size. The only mention of any reduced storage is in a tiny footnote: " System software uses significant storage space" and there's an almost hidden link to a support page which details how much storage is available on freshly bought devices.
As a side note I owe you some thanks. I had no idea my Surface Pro 3 had an microSD slot, it was so well hidden under the kickstand. That support page covered how to increase storage. I guess I'm off to th
Re: (Score:2)
REally? where? apologies if I am wrong but I see nothing about user available space for any of the iPhone models on their purchasing site http://www.apple.com/iphone/co... [apple.com]
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the tech spec page for Microsoft Surface: http://www.microsoftstore.com/... [microsoftstore.com]
Note that it clearly states how much storage is actually available for use, accounting for the OS and other software.
Here is the tech spec page for Apple's iPad Air 2: http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-a... [apple.com]
Note that it doesn't mention how much usable space you have after the OS and all their bundled apps have taken their share.
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the wrinkles that possibly justifies a lawsuit for this is that Apple doesn't give regular users a way to downgrade the iOS version. So if your device had a "comfortable" amount of free space, an auto-update could put you into a "critically short of space" state with no way for most owners to revert the device to the old iOS. Thus forcing you to upgrade to a new device sooner than you expected. Relevant quote from TFA:
"These misrepresentations and omissions cause these consumers to 'upgrade' their Devices from iOS 7 (or other operating systems) to iOS 8," it said. "Apple fails to disclose that upgrading from iOS 7 to iOS 8 will cost a Device user between 600 MB and 1.3 GB of storage space - a result that no consumer could reasonably anticipate."
Re: MicroSD card? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Worse, it adds significant complexity to have to different physical sets of storage.
And it also means that they would need to get an over-sized OS storage volume just to have room for future features, meaning that you'd have wasted/unused storage in your device, driving up the cost and power consumption, getting nothing in return until some hypothetical future date when the OS might grow to use that space. And if there's no such wasted space now, that means that the OS new features are constrained to fit in
Re: (Score:2)
Apple wants to avoid cases where users blame Apple for sluggish application performance, skipping music/video, bugs, etc... that are a result of something that Apple can't control or exert influence over.
Than how about they add some memory dedicated to the OS? The stuff is not that expensive these days...
And if they did people would be complaining about Apple using up memory that they paid for that's currently vacant just to handle a once-yearly iOS upgrade. At least this way most people can get use of the memory most of the time, its a damn sight simpler, and it allows Apple to report bigger numbers legitimately. Why wouldn't they do it the way that they are, especially knowing that they'd get abuse for it either way?
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:4, Insightful)
The quality of removable storage media, especially SD cards (and derivative formats) varies drastically. Apple likes to ensure a consistent ecosystem so that all users have as consistent an experience as possible.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I mean, there's no way it could have anything to do with the fact that flash memory prices have dropped significantly and the only way Apple can get away with charging its ridiculous premiums for slightly more memory is to prevent users from easily adding their own. (With micro SD prices now, I could find something costing less than $1/gigabyte, or if Apple supported USB OTG, I could even use a flash drive for about 30 cents/GB, but instead I have to pay about $2/GB if I want an iPad or whatever with more memory.)
And it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that those ridiculous premiums for lots of memory cause consumers to buy cheaper models rather than spending a couple hundred more dollars on an already way overpriced piece of hardware, and then are forced to upgrade to a new generation device in a couple years when they realize they don't have enough space.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right -- the huge profit motive here has nothing to do with it... It's just Apple being a good citizen and helping its users not up have to put up with some inferior piece of freakin' flash memory they might buy.
That MUST be it. Thanks for telling us.
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2685232/why-the-entry-level-iphone-6-has-just-16gb-of-storage.html [computerworld.com]
Re: MicroSD card? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, no (or you're too young to remember much). A few examples. Macs will readily accept third party drives and memory, one can use third party mice, keyboards and displays. Heck, Apple even supports dual boot on Macs, so you can run a third party OS. There's a whole third party industry build around making accessories for iThings.
Don't try to argue it's so "it just works," that's just
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was just going to leave this whole thing alone, but I've got to comment on this one.
There's nothing that great about adding MicroSD card slots to cellphones. Sure, "Everyone else does it (but Apple)." -- but that doesn't make it a good solution.
Whenever I've used Android devices, it's always added an extra layer of complexity, determining if an app or some data is stored on the internal or external storage. And while perhaps they've addressed it now, I also recall a lot of hassles with certain programs re
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, it only works with media and documents, not with applications, and the
Re: (Score:2)
Or, get Windows Phone and have real SD card support, without Android's stupid limitations.
Re: MicroSD card? (Score:2)
Most people know what an SD card is or are capable of understanding what one is. Making excuses for bad technical decisions by saying users are too stupid to understand a simple concept is a cop out.
Re: (Score:2)
Agree 100%. Most people have some vague idea what a microSD card is.
If they were told they could make their iPhone hold more by buying one, they will get the cheapest one they could find online. If they're unlucky enough, they'll get one of those that say they're 128GB but actually have only 16GB space. And then blame Apple.
Let alone format them and have any idea of how to manage two storage pools when one of them is removable.
Re: MicroSD card? (Score:2)
I know plenty of tech illiterate people who can understand the concept of removable storage, whether that's a floppy disk, USB flash drive or micro SD. I know it's fashionable to pretend that virtually everyone but geeks is stupid but it's not the case.
Android users (most of whom aren't geeks) seem to be capable of understanding the concept and Samsung et al aren't getting the blame for fake cards as far as I know.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple leaves out a VERY common feature
How common are microSD cards these days? My current Android phone doesn't have one and it seems that both microSD cards and removable batteries are far more rare than they used to be.
Re: (Score:2)
<rhetorical_question>You've never actually used VLC on an Android device with an SD card, have you?</rhetorical_question>
Re: (Score:2)
File managers represent a fairly common paradigm. I don't mysteriously forget what one is just because the device looks a bit different.
Re: (Score:3)
Turned out USB-only wasn't so nice as advertised. Broken USB drivers? No keyboard. Oh, and the drivers on the Windows CD might be broken. What fun that was figuring out why the keyboard worked in BIOS but not in Windows at install time.
Wow. Sounds like Microsoft released a really shitty implementation of the USB only switch. Why would breaking the USB driver be any more likely (or even possible short of deliberate sabotage) than breaking the PS/2 driver anyway?
Re: (Score:2)
How maddening it must be for you that there are so many insane people around the world, right?
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:4, Insightful)
Fixed that for ya. I swear every time I have to use an Android device I get a migraine, it's like the UI is designed to drive sane people absolutely mad.
Fixed that for ya.
You say that like they can't both be true.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
... CalDAV/CardDAV support was added over a year ago.
Re: (Score:2)
FTFY**2
Re: (Score:2)
Apple wants to avoid cases where users blame Apple for sluggish application performance, skipping music/video, bugs, etc... that are a result of something that Apple can't control or exert influence over.
You mean like how when Apple purposefully degrades the performance of older iOS devices when a new iOS version is out (that won't run on the older hardware)?
citation pls? you're saying that if my phone is too old to run ios8, then apple will take steps to make ios7 more unstable and bloated? link or it didnt happen.
Re: (Score:2)
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2... [arstechnica.com]
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean like how when Apple purposefully degrades the performance of older iOS devices when a new iOS version is out (that won't run on the older hardware)?
Help me understand what you just wrote?
1) Apple purposefully degrades the performance
2) of older iOS devices
3) when a new iOS version is out
4) (that won't run on the older hardware)?
Are you claiming Apple makes the older iOS that is currently installed on your phone, work slower, when a new version of iOS is released (but not installed on your phone)? If you can prove it, I'm sure the lawyers would love to speak to you.
If you cannot prove it, I'm sure the psychiatrists would love to speak to you.
Re: (Score:3)
It was badly worded but it's pretty obvious that the GP was referring to the well known and documented phenomenon of iOS upgrades causing devices to slow down. You can of course not upgrade, but the real issue is why the OS gets slower over time.
Most operating systems tend to get faster - Android, Windows 7 and 8, Linux... The developers make performance improvements, where as iOS seems to be going the opposite way and relies on every improving hardware to make up for it. It wouldn't be so bad if it were po
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously? There isn't even a way to do a "factory reset"?
It'd be a PITA to do the backup, reapply patches and so on, but that's better than nothing.
Re:MicroSD card? (Score:5, Interesting)
"You mean like how when Apple purposefully degrades the performance of older iOS devices when a new iOS version is out"
Example? So far (and I've run every iOS release) they do the opposite - they allow a much wider range of devices to upgrade than any other consumer electronics company. I have several Android devices, and new OS release support is spotty, because it's dependent on manufacturer and carrier QA, while Apple is the manufacturer, and got the carriers to allow Apple to push software straight to users without going through telco gatekeepers.
Apple does disable new features that run badly on older hardware, such as Siri only being available on newer phones, but that's the opposite of degrading - it's protecting users from degraded performance. So, as is typical with Apple, they'd rather deliver less functionality, with better performance, while Google goes the opposite direction - all sorts of functionality, but iffy performance. Both strategies are legitimate, and suit different kinds of users.
Re: (Score:3)
"You mean like how when Apple purposefully degrades the performance of older iOS devices when a new iOS version is out"
Example? So far (and I've run every iOS release) they do the opposite - they allow a much wider range of devices to upgrade than any other consumer electronics company.
Yeah, and the 8.01 update specifically targeted slow performance on both the 4s and the iPad2 (which made an appreciable speed difference on my 32GB model). This is really a non-issue.
"Apple does disable new features that run badly on older hardware, such as Siri only being available on newer phones, but that's the opposite of degrading - it's protecting users from degraded performance. So, as is typical with Apple, they'd rather deliver less functionality, with better performance, while Google goes the opposite direction - all sorts of functionality, but iffy performance. Both strategies are legitimate, and suit different kinds of users.
Very well said.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Why TF don't Apple have a slot for microSD card ike most smartphones these days.
Anyway I gave up on Apple in 1988
Usually this type of decision is based on a couple of things, and all of them really such with MicroSD:
(1) Power management; with the card it, it's hard/impossible to drive down battery usage/drive up battery life
(2) It's another hole in the case to let in water/dirt/etc.
(3) Speed/quality of MicroSD cards is highly variable
(4) As hardware which talks directly to the driver, not through an intermediary, and effectively on the memory bus, it's an attack vector
(5) They're easy to lose, compared to, say, a powe
Re: (Score:3)
Many of the Lumia phones have a microsd slow on the INSIDE.
I open up the phone once (trivially easy) and I can put in a microsd card, sim card and even replace the battery and then close the cover back up.
The battery covers the sim card and microsd card so they can't be removed while the battery is in. This means you can't accidentally remove them while the phone is on.
It is a very good and simple design. It means you don't have any of the external interfaces, you don't worry about dust, water etc and you d
Re: (Score:2)
Why TF don't Apple have a slot for microSD card ike most smartphones these days.
Look at the article. How would that change? The complaint is that iOS 8 takes more space than iOS 7, and that is true no matter how much space.
Re: MicroSD card? (Score:2)
You mean like the SD card slot on Nexus devices? You know the only device that is almost guaranteed to get timely OS updates?
Where can I find this SD card slot on Nexus phones?
Re: (Score:2)
Your right.
Only Samsung, Motorola, Alcatel, Sony, Philips, LG, Acer and a couple others.
That's most, isn't it?
From the same people (Score:4, Insightful)
Feeping creatursim (Score:3, Insightful)
I felt like a million IT people cried out "DUH!" and then were silenced.
Re: (Score:2)
No. You can delete it now, without upgrading. Apple released a utility to do that within a couple of weeks of iOS 8 coming out.
Re: Feeping creatursim (Score:2)
If there was an older version of the app available that supports your OS. You are automatically given the option of downloading the old version.
Background (Score:2, Informative)
Just for reference, Orshan is a bankruptcy lawyer, but, while he's a named plaintiff, there are other lawyers handling the case. Christopher Endara was VP of a generic orthopedic screw manufacturer (Internal Fixation Systems, OTC stock IFIXQ) that went bankrupt; the company assets were bought up by US Orthopedics.
The class action filing can be read at https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2893306/1-main.0.pdf [vox-cdn.com] .
Not that anyone cares, but background is fun; let the fanboi wars begin.
The premise of the suit is fatally flawed, period. (Score:2, Insightful)
The core reality in anything having to do with personal computers or similar devices
is that older hardware in the computer industry is always made obsolete by increasing
requirements for storage or performance ( or both ).
The idea that older hardware should have made allowances for software which did not
even exist when the hardware was spec'd and manufactured is simply absurd.
The only hope for this lawsuit is for the plaintiffs to somehow make sure the judge or jury
are technically illiterate. However I am pr
Time to create 9GB and 17GB flash memories (Score:5, Interesting)
Flash is already a bit weirdly sized because of extra bits for Flash Translation Layer to do block management. Maybe we just need flash parts that are big enough for a 1GB OS partition and don't even advertise the user visible partition. As a software engineer (on Android mostly) it would be pretty simple for the OS to manage a private partition because we already partition flash today.
The obvious would be to label devices as 7GB, 15GB, 31GB, etc. But unless all devices did this universally I don't think the public would accept that either. It would be better to secretly charge the consumer for the extra GB for the OS.
ps - I picked GB out of the air at random as a somewhat future-proof number for sub-64GB flash memories. Android uses significantly less than 1 GB, I assume iOS is approximately the same size.
Re: (Score:3)
Android significantly less than 1GB? Hardly [nextpowerup.com], unless you're managed to strip it to bare bones. iOS devices reserve about 3GB, and Surface tablets reserve 15-60GB (I kid you not) for Windows RT/8
Re: (Score:3)
The image I flash every day at work is about 600 MB, with debug symbols (Android-L). It's less when I strip debug prints and symbols.
I don't know what do say, there isn't anything special about the image I build. It is just the stock apps that Google ships, plus my drivers.
Re: (Score:2)
the problem is let's say apple takes a noob-friendly approach and advertises the exact amount someone would see if they checked available space on day one. say instead of 8GB, 7.1GB. I can see apple liking this idea. But then Sammy will take the more selfish approach and keep saying "we have an 8GB phone!". Then ppl will say why would I pay for apple when I get 20% more storage with sammy? it's self-defeating.
next lawsuit: at walmart the price on the shelf is different than the price at the register due to
Re: (Score:2)
next lawsuit: at walmart the price on the shelf is different than the price at the register due to sales tax. class action!
As a non-american, I found this really annoying the first time I bought stuff in an American shop. I had a bit of money in my pocket (a few dollars) and picked items just below the amount that I had. Then at the checkout they asked for more money than I had in cash. Really annoying.
Re: (Score:2)
It would change every time there is a new OS update.
Why is this an issue? (Score:2)
It's already assumed on desktops and laptops: saying it has a 500GB hard drive means it has a 500GB hard drive, not 500GB of free space after Windows and all the other software is installed. Saying it has 8GB of RAM means 8GB of RAM, not 8GB of memory free after device drivers and services and Windows and run-on-startup programs have loaded. So why on a phone or tablet should 16GB of storage not mean 16GB of storage, why is it supposed to mean 16GB free after the operating system and software is installed?
You think this is bad? (Score:2)
Issue is continuity of experience (Score:2)
Here's the issue as I see it.
I owned an iPhone 4 for all four years of its lifeâ"release to EOL. It was the 16GB version and I got by by managing my music playlists carefully and occasionally offloading the photos. Even in iOS 7, this was fine. When I was deciding which iPhone 6 to buy, I figured that I'd pretty much work the same way I always had. Sure, I can't carry as much with me, but I'm rarely away from home so long that it matters, and I was already planning to buy the iCloud storage package.
Eve
Only 23%? Luxury! (Score:3)
I just bought a Samsung Galaxy S5 with 16GB of onboard flash. Fully half of it is consumed by Samsung and Verizon crapware that I can't delete.
Re:Entitlement (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Entitlement (Score:5, Informative)
And how do you figure they are wasting space? Ever examined the content of their apps?
It's all about distribution issues. One-size-fits-all ends up requiring App developers to ship with 1x, 2x and now 3x bitmaps for the artwork. This does inflate apps, just as having multiple interface files specialization for multiple device sizes (~iphone & ~ipad xib files, or the bloating AutoLayout + Size Classes super storyboards). It's inevitable.
But Apple is also taking steps towards reduced bitmap footprints.
As of iOS 7, there has been FAR fewer bitmaps in the core OS in favour of lighter (visually and storage-wise) user interfaces.
With the introduction of PDF-based image assets that auto-compiles all the required resolutions, developers are now in a position to gradually rid themselves of the burden of maintaining multiple bitmaps (those where getting quite a hassle in large projects where every image was a trio of increasing sized bitmaps).
In OS X, PDF images are rendered natively and bypass the asset compiler. In iOS 8, the path is paved for abandoning bitmaps altogether.
So, no, Apple is not making their OS fatter on purpose. It's the cost of added features and backward compatibility that does that.
Re: (Score:3)
You are definitely right that they have taken steps to reduce the OS footprint, but I have a few issues with how their storage works:
1. The amount of space that they advertise doesn't include the OS and other apps meaning that if you purchase a device expecting 16GB to put music on, but learn that you have 12GB of usable space then that may cause me some annoyance in how I load my music and apps.
2. I believe another Slashdot article covered this but the total storage of apple devices in the first place tend
Re:Entitlement (Score:5, Interesting)
On an 8 GB iPhone I had to delete every piece of media and almost every app just to be able to download the ios updates.
Or you could have plugged into iTunes and upgraded, which would have downloaded and stored the IPSW firmware image on the computer and simply overwritten the existing OS image, not requiring the extra temp space.
Everyone bitched about not having over-the-air upgrading, right until they started bitching about how much storage it takes to do over-the-air upgrading.
Re: (Score:2)
What if Apple is adding wasted space to their OS distributions in order to coerce/trick customers into upgrading the older, lower capacity devices?
Incredibly unlikely given the lowest model iPhone 6 is a 16GB device, and the lowest model of the iPhone 3GS is a 16GB device.
Re: Entitlement (Score:2)
Not that i think the Apple wasting space point is valid, but lowest 3gs was not 16 but 8 gigs. In fact 8 gigs was entry level even two generations later, in 4s.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Help me understand how temporary wasted space (the specific OP claim) that goes away (is not an issue) after the upgrade, is going to make people go buy a new phone again?
Re:Entitlement (Score:4, Insightful)
Once they fill their iDevice with all their U2 and other IToons garbage, they fill up the free space so that there is no longer room for the bloated "temporary" upgrade package files to download. Then, they are stuck unless they remove some of their media (and THAT ain't gonna happen)...
I have similar shit happen with my old Android phone, running CM7 as that is all that's available for it, and large package updates like WasteOfSpaceBook run out of memory. Then I get to go all techy with it and delete caches and program data until there's enough free space left to download the updates, one of my favorite activities, truly a joy untold, not helped by the fact that the idiots keep updating the apps weekly for some stupid reason(s). The main problem with Android is it's not media files eating up all the space, since they sit in a different memory area. It's a pre-reserved "system" memory area that is very small to start with and the newer apps push the limit of that "free" space to the edge. Feh.
Re: Entitlement (Score:4, Insightful)
If only Apple provided another way to upgrade the OS that didn't involve the extra space. Maybe they could let you connect it to a computer and use iTunes.
Oh wait....
Re:Entitlement (Score:5, Interesting)
Entitlement, and trying to profit from willful ignorance and opportunistic lawyers. All operating systems consume space. And upgrades usually take more space.
They contend the upgrades to the operating system end up taking up as much as 23 percent of the storage space on their devices
So, let them revert to the older version and gain back the space lost in the upgrade. Oh, they can't? C'est la vie.
"These misrepresentations and omissions cause these consumers to 'upgrade' their Devices from iOS 7 (or other operating systems) to iOS 8," it said. "Apple fails to disclose that upgrading from iOS 7 to iOS 8 will cost a Device user between 600 MB and 1.3 GB of storage space - a result that no consumer could reasonably anticipate."
Did they think that iOS 7 took zero space? Tellingly, the chart they provide doesn't have any figures on how much space the previous OS took up. Guess they only decided to sue AFTER they noticed people complaining about how much space iOS8 took, and never bothered to check how much space was consumed by the OS before the upgrade, so they don't even know how much space the upgrade cost them.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
I don't, that means there will be wasted memory that i could otherwise be using. I'd rather free up space for an upgrade if I want it, than have excess space I can't use.
What "we" as consumers really want is less $ per GB for the upgrade iDevices, but that would require someone other than Apple producing decent hardware, when the trend is Chinese shitshops producing junk.
Re:Entitlement (Score:5, Insightful)
I generally love everything Apple does and makes. That said, they botched iOS 8 from a user perspective. Everyone I know who had a small flash went and deleted all their apps and data first so they could download the update. They needed to tell people that they could do a tethered upgrade and use less space for the upgrade.
The way they did it reinforces the "upgrades are bad" mentality which is dangerous. Apple can do better.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, the upgrade took way too much space, 16GB devices that were almost full were a mess to upgrade.
Frankly, given the price of these things, 64GB as the default size, 128GB as the second size and 256GB as the third makes more sense now.
Apple wants me to spend money in the App Store and on iTunes? Great, make it easier to download stuff.
How do you buy more stuff when you have no room?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And strangely enough, even though Samsung used up to half of the memory on a 16GB Android phone, that's not an issue to these lawyers.
Re: (Score:2)
Samsung doesn't have this issue because they consume most of the space with bloatware crap before you buy the device. If that's a problem, then you can return it to the shop as soon as you discover it (or just not buy it, if you've done your research properly before hand). This is different from the Apple case, where the extra space was consumed after purchase.
My first Android phone was an HTC Desire, which had 512MB of flash. The OS was on a separate partition to the user-accessible space, so it only
Re: Entitlement (Score:4, Informative)
1) Insert a Micro SD card formatted with two partitions, one Ext4 for app storage and one FAT for data storage.
2) Root my phone.
3) Install a SU utility.
4) Purchase and install an app that would let me "link" app data to the SD card, since there was no built in way to move apps (I understand some phones have the capability, others don't).
5) Purchase and install FolderSync to handle application data moves, for apps that didn't support specifying a non-standard directory.
Then I had to live with the fact that I could no longer stream TiVo content to the phone, thanks to step #2 above.
So while my Sony had 16gb internal and 64gb external, and the performance on the external was actually pretty good, since I bought a quality, premium, fast SanDisk Ultra MicroSDXC card, and actually became terrific after installing and configuring a tuning app that let me change the caching settings and other parameters, I have an easier time today with my Moto X 32gb. Less storage, less headaches. And TiVo works again.
I understand some of the why (try to make casual pirating of apps harder by keeping them on a partition type that most people outside of Slashdot won't be able to read), but frankly it just wasn't worth it. I'm a techie. I had no trouble getting those steps figured out. I just don't want to do that. Then Lollipop was about to ship, right after I sold my phone, and I thought "I wonder if all those apps still work, or what the new process is". I just didn't want to go through with that. Kudos to Samsung for support SD slots. I hope moving apps is easier, but I hate their UI so I never consider their phones. Had an S3 once. Hated it. I'm sure TouchWiz is much better now, but I like Google's own interface best. So I had a Sony Xperia GPE and now a Moto X Pure edition.
Incidentally, Microsoft has figured it out better than Apple or Google and their phone OEMs. Got my kids a Lumia (hard to pass up for under $50 at their age when they just want to play the few games that exist for every major platform anyway). Just tick a box and all apps default to SD storage, except for an occasional app whose developer prohibits the behavior, in which case you're prompted and allowed to install it on internal memory.
Re:Entitlement (Score:4, Interesting)
All of my devices have microSD slots and have file systems that are accessible from my PC's file manager via USB. I won't buy one that doesn't meet these requirements.
By sheer coincidence, none of my mobile devices are sold by Apple.
Re: Entitlement (Score:4, Informative)
iOS used to be a pain to transfer files via USB. You had to use iTunes, and you could send files into specific apps only. The new iCloud Drive isn't quite as versatile as a DropBox, but it's awfully close, especially for simple things like copying a file in (without needing the cable, btw).
I don't know. I make my living in IT, but I manage to use Finder without buying a third party file manager. But even if I did, I'd probably go right to PathFinder, which I owned a copy of years and years ago when Finder truly was much worse than it is today. And incidentally, it's available without the App Store [cocoatech.com] and Apple makes no cut on the sale of it.
Nobody begrudges you sticking to Linux on a laptop or refusing Apple products because they have limitations. Well, obviously this is Slashdot, someone will very violently begrudge you, but that's unavoidable. Most people don't care / don't mind. But the truth is, for the vast majority of people, off the shelf, non-rooted or jailbroke Apple or Android phones do 99.9999% to 100% of what most people care about.
Believe me, I'm not (strictly) an Apple apologist. My phone is the 2014 Moto X (no flash slot, by the way, just like the Nexus and many other non-Samsung phones). My current laptop is a Surface Pro 3. And my current tablet is an iPad Air.
It's all balance. I loved my old MacBook Air, but for $200 more than a new one I chose the Surface Pro, which is lighter, has the stylus I wanted for taking notes in meetings without banging on a keyboard, and has a high definition screen. I loved my old iPhone, but the Moto X was far cheaper when I went to upgrade (under $400 unlocked, contract free thanks to the Black Friday $150 coupon), and let me do some customization I really wanted to do on a phone. And on the Tablet side, I wasn't interested in an Android tablet (I've certainly tried my fair share), because for media consumption, there's nothing that compares to the library of apps that are iPad native.
Re: (Score:2)
For example, if I bought an 8GB phone, I might have been told I could easily fit a movie or a couple of TV shows on it. Now, after updating to the latest version of the system software, I can no longer fit a movie on it. I updated my phone and now it won't do what I was told it could do and it never warned me that this might be an issue before I updated it.
Not that I necessarily agree with the lawsuit, but it might be worthwhile if Apple says to those people with 8GB phones, "Hey, you might NOT want to up
Re: (Score:2)
also you can revert back to the phone's original OS at any time. like magic, get all your storage shizz back.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Since the flash memory comes in 1K=1024 boundaries, and there's only 1 chip, I don't think Apple would buy a 114GB chip to stick it in the phone. And really, if they went with 1K=1000, you should see *MORE*, not less.
I am now wondering how much is reserved for wear leveling, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The debate between 1K = 1,000 and 1K=1,024 has been going on for decades. As long as the terms are precisely defined, I don't think there's a case there. And Apple documents exactly how much storage each of their devices comes with, including the footnote that "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less." I wouldn't expect a consumer device to get into the details of directory blocks, etc. If a consumer wants to know how much storage the device has available, they can easily check by looking in S
Re: (Score:2)
No, I have not the 8GB, 16GB, whatever GB they are selling. I rather think if those gentlemen want to him, rather than complaining about the new OS taking more memory (stupid), they could complaint about Apple misleading people about 1K = 1000. I certainly feel cheated about my "128" iPhone having only 114GB.
You are not cheated, you are stupid. Everyone knows that 128GB = 128 billion bytes. Geeks know that 128GiB = 128 x 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes. Idiots "know" that 128GB = 128 x 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes, but they are wrong.
Re: Retina Display = Needs Retina Graphics Assets (Score:2)
And Google.....
Re: Maybe this is good! (Score:2)
So should every manufacturer that doesn't have an SD card be sued -- including Google?