Bill Gates: iPad Users Are Frustrated They Can't Type Or Create Documents 618
An anonymous reader writes "While Apple views the tablet and PC markets as two separate entities, Microsoft takes the opposing view. During a CNBC interview this morning, Gates continued to toe the party line insofar as he praised the benefits of Microsoft's tablets and Windows 8 while explaining that iPad users are frustrated because they have trouble typing and creating documents. 'With Windows 8, Microsoft is trying to gain share in what has been dominated by the iPad-type device. But a lot of those users are frustrated, they can't type, they can't create documents. They don't have Office there. So we're providing them something with the benefits they've seen that have made that a big category, but without giving up what they expect in a PC.'"
And... (Score:5, Insightful)
And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC
No, but the option for more overlap is nice. Especially when it has nothing to do with actual processing power issues, and not even screen size with a tablet, but simply peripheral and OS problems.
If nothing else... PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing). It's not like it's a hard problem to solve, it's been solved for years.
Same with typing. ASUS has a good thing, IMO, going with their Transformer tablets (I own one). I think it was smart for Microsoft to do it.
I'm sure it's not for everyone. Not everyone likes smartphones, either (I don't have one) ... some for very similar reasons ("nobody seriously expects a phone to be a computer"). But, hey, some do. And I've heard, actually, some very good things about the Windows tablets. The bad thing, of course, is that they are expensive :)
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Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
there is both free and commercial AirPrint server software that can make any printer available to an iOS device..
I own an OfficeJet 4500, which is not AirPrint compatible [hp.com]. I checked the Wikipedia article you linked for more information about this "AirPrint server software" you mentioned, but the first footnote after "GNU/Linux" [www.rho.cc] resulted in "Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.rho.cc". The second link works [finnie.org], but it's very complicated to set up. Furthermore, it mentions that it uses Avahi, and I've found that Avahi doesn't work if a Windows Server is on the same network because Windows Server's use of the .local top-level domain by default conflicts with Zeroconf.
Re:And... (Score:4, Informative)
Most distros ship with AirPrint enabled out of the box now. All those web pages describing "very complicated" ways to set up (ie editing two configuration files) are obsolete.
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I don't know what more you can expect
What I expected was some sort of freely licensed alternative to FingerPrint, just as MinGW is a freely licensed alternative to Visual C++.
Re:And... (Score:4, Informative)
PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing).
Modern printers can be printed to directly. For everything else (my trusty Canon multi-function, my 8 year old cheap-when-it-was-new Samsung GDI contraption) that are shared via my Linux fileserver, it was a simple setup for CUPS and now those printers are iOS-accessible, too.
Same with typing.
The iPad has supported Bluetooth keyboards since day 1, and Apple (and countless third parties) have sold such keyboards since day 1 (of the iPad). I use one (a Zagg model with a slot that can be used to conveniently stand the iPad) with an iOS 4.3.3 first-generation iPad, routinely...
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
With my phone, a Razr Maxx HDD, I find myself commonly doing "real work" on the go, where Swype on the screen just doesn't cut it. I got myself an iGo folding BT keyboard and LOVE IT. Android comes with QuickOffice which does a passable job at MS Office compatibility, and which I've used many times in conjunction with the email and JuiceSSH for remote access to servers.
I wish apps weren't full screen; It's trivial to plug my phone into a nearby TV with HDMI and, with bluetooth keyboard, have an impromptu "PC" with pretty impressive "content creation" capability. Copy/Paste is still weak, but it's improving rapidly.
My phone is more powerful than the majority of computers I've used in my almost-20-year history working in information technology. It's silly to think it's not ever going to be considerable as a PC replacement.
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Just about any android tablet can connect to a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. And I'm pretty sure iPads can connect to BT keyboards. I'm not really understanding what all the brouhaha is all about -- if people want to use a keyboard to do real work, it's no prob.
There are some tasks for which a tablet will work in a pinch and is handy, but isn't the sort of thing you'd want to be using all the time, especially for tasks that are remarkably more convenient with dual monitors and multiple desktops. But some
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.
I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable, if it worked just like magic. and the usb ports on the base unit kept working when the screen was detached and it was in range. that would be sweet at home.
however the whole windows 8 thing is a masterful diversion from the real thing that MS has riding on it.. I might sound like a broken record here, but the real thing why windows 8 is significant is that they're extending microsoft tax to 3rd party software - and nobody is talking about it. on rt it's _all_ 3rd party sw, if you pay then you pay part of the money to MS, on regular 8 it's just metro stuff currently, however now they can "give in" and give the regular desktop more prominent role again in their plans and have regular desktop apps distributed through their store as well then and people will praise them for being sensible. adobe is trying to fight that with subscription model(3rd party payments?), since in the future they sure as fuck wouldn't want to pay MS 30% of a 2500 dollar sale.
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I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable,
Oh, it's removable. Perhaps not usable afterward, but definitely removable. :-)
Or did you have something else in mind?
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
There are people who buy tablets as their PCs and only then realize why keyboards are still a thing. Hell, I've heard of a whole school that decided to get all the teachers computers, then decided to get them ipads. This was not an unpopular idea until shortly after it was actually implemented.
Re:And... (Score:5, Funny)
And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.
Ya, Bill Gates is the last person I'd take advice from when it comes to Apple products.
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That would be CmdrTaco.
recently transitioned to google docs at work (Score:3)
We recently went through a pretty agressive transition to google docs in my department. Approximately 40 people mostly accountants and managers who's marriage to office was extreme. There was extreme push back by the accountants for the very reason stated in the article. Android/Google aren't real documents. you can only view snapshots but cannot work efficiently. The collaboration was the sell, with the thinking being use your pc to edit in native office formats. At this point all the accountants have sw
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
And Windows 8 is so terrible between the Ribbon and the Windows 8 interface this has happened:
- All the secretaries, etc, need to be retrained. Yes they may be "more productive" after the retrain, but they must be retrained. The Ribbon has been accepted by now, but the new Win8 UI is a horrorshow.
- For the computer mavens, gurus and hobbyists and IT guys - I really think the latest crop of Windows garbage is like another windows ME. Lets ignore it, maybe it will go away. I think Windows 7 GUI + Office 2010 is just about the final version that works. Office 2013 is crap, horrible GUI, horrible look, and Windows 8 is so bad that everyone I know who is using it has at least Start8 installed and paid for. Its laughable.
As for me, I'm tired. Ubuntu, RHEL, CentOS, FreeBSD, Solaris, Windows XP, 7, OS X. Whatever. Its a mess that keeps getting messier and crappier mostly. Boring. People reinventing the wheel, resolving old solved problems, etc. Stupid. The industry is kind of in a bad state. Nobody has the discipline to stop changing stuff and hone in on stability anymore. Rugs have to been ripped out from underneath with ever increasing frequency. Things feel horribly unarchitected.
My current favorite OS is actually android. Take the bazaar and productize it. Not bad. Getting better by the day.
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
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And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.
I do. I wish a tablet could run everything my pc can and could also be used as a portable touch device when I didn't want the 30" monitor, kb and mouse. It would be a dream come true. Processor architecture, along with severe performance limitations inherent to tablet devices are both major roadblocks.
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
I am so disgusted that I can't get 3 tons of manure into a sports car. IPads and iPhones are computers just as much as that monstrosity that may still be sitting on your desk or gathering dust in some closet. Why does this nonsense of the death of the PC get propagated again and again and again and again and again? Desktop computers are like 18 wheelers, laptops correspond to delivery trucks, iPads are alike passenger cars as the iPhone is like a sports car. There, now you have a car analogy. I see plenty of 18 wheelers and delivery trucks on the roads amidst all the smaller vehicles. Similarly there will always be desktop and laptop computers in addition to their smaller brethren.
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
Because what I use my PC for and what I use my tablet for are entirely different things, and by trying to merge them into a single experience you produce a laptop I don't want to use and a tablet I don't want to use. And apparently I'm not alone, judging by the incredible failure Microsoft's Surface offerings have been.
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.
Even better if it would switch "experience" at need to also be my HTPC and gaming console when I have my TV connected and want to switch over to using a remote, or game controllers. The tablet hardware isn't there yet (for 3D gaming), but I expect it will be within 5 years or so.
There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem with your approach is that when I have a tablet I want battery life and ease of use. And when I use a PC I want power, and speed! They are orthogonal to each other. As the CAP theorem, says, you can have 2 out of 3, not all three, so choose what you want.
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No matter how powerful a processor and how much memory you put in the tablet, you will always have a small screen compared to large desktop monitor. If you don't care much about efficiency in your work, you can get away with a tiny screen, but there isn't and there never will be a substitute for big screen real estate.
Go a few comments up the thread:
I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen
Re:And... (Score:4, Insightful)
I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.
Even better if it would switch "experience" at need to also be my HTPC and gaming console when I have my TV connected and want to switch over to using a remote, or game controllers. The tablet hardware isn't there yet (for 3D gaming), but I expect it will be within 5 years or so.
There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.
The reason why you can't do this...at least yet...is that the core processing (CPU and video) functions at work here are fundamentally different in each of the experiences you describe. The same processor that gives you low heat and long battery life in a tablet is woefully underpowered for a gaming console or PC. The same graphics processor in a gaming console would require venting and a fan in a tablet. Other things are more pliable (although I don't know if you could hotplug RAM on the fly, I'm sure that's not quite as impossible to solve in the consumer market, as some servers have this ability) but the processors at those two core functions are all different across these device types, and for good reason.
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
For most pedestrian PC use cases, you don't need a bruiser of a CPU or a GPU. In the case of an HTPC, a lot of people (myself included) get great results out of using just about the most trailing edge kit available. Most home and office users don't push their machines. That's why tablets are so popular.
Most people outside of conspicous consumption gamers just don't push their systems.
Right now, I am not pushing my system. The most important aspect of my desktop right now is not the CPU or the GPU. It's the big fat monitor and nice keyboard. It's all of the parts that aren't the actual PC.
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Some people imagine they can combine the car experience and the truck experience by getting a trailer for their car. And indeed for some people, who only very occasionally need almost truck like capacity, a trailer pulled behind a car can do the job. But it's a tiny fraction of people. Most people drive cars or trucks.
Re: And... (Score:4, Interesting)
My current laptop docks with a single USB-3 attachment - but for a tablet I'd want a power connector as well. Not everyone is in love with wireless! I have 1 wireless mouse at home, for my HTPC; everything else is wired. A docking station just makes it easy, and is likely cheaper than wireless built into everything.
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?
Because a fully functional PC is for content creation while a tablet is for content consumption. And many people don't understand the difference.
People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC". Last year, the two largest PC companies, HP and Lenovo, sold a combined total of 110 Million PCs. Regardless of how that compares to tablet sales or previous year's PC sales, that's a lot of computers.
While tablets have certainly become popular, due to the fact that there are a lot of content consumers out there. the rumors of the death of the PC are greatly exaggerated.
Fully functional PC in cramped quarters (Score:5, Insightful)
People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC".
The problem here is that the popularity of limited-purpose tablets made it unprofitable to continue to produce a "fully functional PC" with a 10 inch display [slashdot.org]. A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.
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A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.
Let me respectfully disagree about that point. I'm using a 13" MacBook in public transports and the issue is not the laptop size as it isn't larger than my lap. The issue is that when typing on the keyboard, the elbows won't stay aligned with the body (technically possible, but uncomfortable), and a smaller laptop won't solve that.
I must be nobody (Score:3)
consider moving in closer to work
Not everybody lives alone. Moving everybody in the household closer to my work would disadvantage others in the household.
A bus? Come on, nobody can actually get any work done on a bus.
Then I guess I should change my name to Nemo because I must be nobody. I routinely work on hobby programming projects, building a portfolio that could be valuable for landing my next job, during the half hour each way that it takes the city bus to get me to and from my current job. Could you explain how that's necessarily ineffective?
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
Tablets have lots of uses in "real work." I use mine to read, annotate and display scientific papers. When I write a paper I use a desktop or notebook, referring to the background research on the tablet. Pilots are apparently finding them very useful for reading manuals.
Any kind of non-trivial "real work" is normally going to involve using information and may or may not involve producing it (pilots don't produce information, they fly planes). Tablets are good at much of that using information side. They're not so good at the producing side, but can be handy that way in a pinch.
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs. But I think they'll make a helluva dent (if they haven't already).
Re:And... (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs. But I think they'll make a helluva dent (if they haven't already).
They recently published some stats here from Norway, access to home PC was up 2% to 95% of the respondents and tablets at 37% (first year recorded). I think most people will end up with both, simple as that. That said, I think it has a huge impact on the sort of PC people want. For consumption, people want performance - they want everything to be snappy and flashy and smooth. For production, a lot of the time the limitation is between the keyboard and the chair, for example now that I'm "producing" this comment I like my keyboard, but the CPU is practically idle. The overlap between input-heavy and performance heavy is rather small, essentially hardcore games. But I think for most people the answer will be that yes, we have a laptop, no it's not very powerful and yes it's collecting dust most of the time but it's useful when we need it.
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hell with a bluetooth keyboard, I'm quite productive on my Nexus 7. The only problem is, I need a wifi connection to get anything done. Give me Linux on it instead with Libre Office and I'd be as productive on it as I am on my desktop.
Re:And... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that if you have a desktop PC, you now have more choice. Do you need a laptop or a tablet? If you only check the internet etc. while you are away from your PC then a tablet is great but if you travel and do real work then you might still want a laptop... Some people are happy with a smart phone and a PC. I do not own nor want a tablet but I think that giving people more choice is great and I am therefore a strong supporter of tablets. To be honest, I have thought about getting a small dumb phone so that it fits in my pocket better and a tablet to replace what the phone can do but I doubt that I will ever do that... it is about having these options to think about and to be able to choose whereas Gates just want people to do what he can make money from.
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
I like physical keyboards.
My Samsung galaxy S Relay has one good enough for texting and light email/browsing.
My Asus Transformer Infinity has one good enough for modest writing, it also attaches to a usb mouse.
My desktop has a really nice one with real mechanical keys.
There is literally no reason an Iphone or Ipad couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard or mouse.
Re:And... (Score:5, Informative)
No, that's not the only thing that needs to change. As you noted, multi-touch gestures don't work with a standard mouse (could possibly work with Apple's Magix Mouse or Magic Trackpad). You also need to add a mouse pointer so you can see what you're pointing at, scrolling has to be addressed (there are no scroll bars in most apps), and you have to create suitable replacements for touch&hold. And, while the current iOS method of selecting text could be adapted to using a mouse, that would be a clumsy way to use a mouse compared to how we've learned to select text using a mouse for the last 30 years. Certainly, the multi-touch gestures are the biggest obstacle, but there are other obstacles to address. The point is that it's not a trivial issue, it's one that has some real UI and usability questions to address before supporting a mouse.
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Touch & hold becomes click & hold. Other than the multi-touch, things translate directly. All you need is the pointer. Android has been able to do this for as long as I have been using ir and the multi-touch has not been an issue because apps have had to be designed for non-multi-touch sensors in any case. There's not much preventing ipa/od from doing this if there was the will.
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Re:And... (Score:4, Informative)
I’m guessing parent meant mechanical as in clicky mechanical keyswitches, like a Model M. He might be interested in something like this. [matias.ca]
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Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most commentary I've seen points out that a more traditional PC is well-suited to creation-heavy tasks, but that the convenience, relatively low cost, portability, and low learning-curve of touch-based computing will tend to relegate PC's to a niche market -- certain classes of business users and the "high-power" users (developers, scientists, etc.).
FWIW, I think Apple is probably right. And the general idea -- most people need an "appliance", not a PC -- is a pretty good one that brings to life the dream of truly accessible computing. What scares me about it is that the major player in the space (Apple) is choosing to lock the general-purposeness of their devices away; and that others entering the market are following suit to some extent (Android manufacturers ship locked to their own app store in many cases, MS is pushing the App Store model for Metro [I refuse to stop calling it that], etc.).
I think that path will make it a lot harder for the sort of serendipitous discovery of computing, development, and related things to occur. If I'd only had an iPad as a kid, instead of an 8088 with a compiler, I'm not sure I'd be a developer today.
Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)
THANK-YOU...
Steve jobs himself said, "When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because that's what you needed on the farms." Cars became more popular as cities rose, and things like power steering and automatic transmission became popular.
"PCs are going to be like trucks," Jobs said. "They are still going to be around." However, he said, only "one out of x people will need them.""
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20006526-56.html [cnet.com]
Where people said that he thought PC's would die is something I don't get. He NEVER said that!!! The problem is that Bill Gates thinks everybody needs a pickup truck, which is clearly not the case!
Re: And... (Score:5, Funny)
The Workstation Strikes Back (Score:5, Insightful)
The clock is turning back: we used to call these things "workstations," a name that stood for a powerful but small computer sitting on a desk somewhere, definitely not something that everyone had or needed. We should call them that again: most of us won't need "workstations," but some us do.
The word "PC" has run its course. Tablets and phones are far more "personal" than a big clunky desktop would ever be. So, yeah, I would say that conceptually the PC has died, or rather has become a workstation again.
By the way, I'm one of those people who will always need a workstation... :) But it doesn't mean I begrudge or don't understand the changes in the industry. My mom sure as heck doesn't need a workstation for her email and web browsing.
Re:no (Score:5, Informative)
Earlier this year I was involved in a collaborative writing project where all three authors were using iPads and the documents were hosted as goggle docs in a shared repository.
One author was using a 3rd party bluetooth keyboard, myself and the 3rd author were using the onscreen keyboard. For edits and proofing the workflow with the iPads and google docs worked really well.
I have subsequently purchased one of the Logictech [logitech.com] keyboard for when I travel and want the capability to type longer documents. I frequently type shorter documents on the iPad onscreen keyboard directly.
Personally (Score:5, Funny)
It's true.
--Sent from my iPad
Not from what I've seen (Score:3)
I hate apple products as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I can agree with this. I see my coworkers typing on their ipads all the time with a dock-like keyboard that attaches to act like a cover when not in use (not sure what it's called or if it's an official apple product or 3rd party).
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OK, did a quick look, and this is what I think they use:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HA500VC/A/logitech-ultrathin-keyboard-cover-for-ipad?fnode=3e [apple.com]
Re:Not from what I've seen (Score:4, Insightful)
It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
With the ipad and keyboard dock I can use the iPad *without* the keyboard if I want to. I'm guessing neither of the cheap laptops I could have bought would work very well without the keyboard attached.
Re:Not from what I've seen (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll never understand that. You basically bought two cheap laptops ....
Do that, and what you have are two cheap laptops that are slow, don't work right, and and are 2-5x the size and 3x-10x what an iPad/iPad Mini weighs. If you need a laptop, by all means buy a laptop. But if what you need is a tablet, buy a tablet.
Re:Not from what I've seen (Score:4, Informative)
I really dont think you want to stack an iPad's specs up against a $400 laptop. Maybe you do, but it wont be pretty. Just so you know, $400 is "core i3" range, which will slaughter just about any ARM proc on the market.
But you're not comparing to a $400 laptop. iPad Mini = $329 + Apple Wireless Keyboard $69, = $398. iPad 2 = $399 + $69 (AWK) = $468. So, you're comparing to a $200-$235 laptop. Which is going to be both underpowered, and cheap quality. So, I'll stick with my original statement.
Microsoft is fustrated tooo. (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I despise apple products, no cult-of-crapple iPad users would ever think twice about anything else, and if they did, it would more likely be android.
Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo. (Score:5, Insightful)
MS rose to riches in the 90s on selling massive numbers of Office suites when they (and desktop PCs) really were a big productivity improvement.
They put huge efforts into (mostly) successfully keeping standalone document/spreadsheet files relevant during the increasingly networked and web oriented 2000s. Smaller geekier companies (like ours) moved to things like wikis other webapps etc, but that didn't put much of a dent in the Office suite market.
Now in the 2010s a bunch of smaller factors like mobility, device independence / cloud storage, "coolness", apps, always on networking, an increasingly powerful web, collaboration, the growth of other platforms etc have combined to really start eroding the actual value/point of a file based Office suite outside the world of the legacy enterprise desktop.
I think MS has hung onto Office technology being the only real basis of any of their collaboration/content based solutions for far too long. Their fear of huting the massive Office profits has left them vulnerable/blind to being left behind. They realise this now and are getting a bit desperate.
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but without giving up what they expect in a PC. (Score:5, Funny)
Like a start menu. oh wait.
so.... (Score:2)
Since ipad users are missing Office, we can expect to see a return of Office for Mac(now iOS)?
Keyboard is nice, but ... (Score:3)
I evaluated the Surface Pro last month. We got a keyboard with it which I put in my office cabinet. It's still sitting there. I have a choice at work of what tablet I want to use, since I'm the product evaluator for that category. Right now I have an iPad, several different Androids, the RT (yuk), and this Surface Pro.
The keyboard just isn't that big a deal to me. The one that comes with it is nice in that it magnetically latches, but in terms of actual typing it's slower than a $7 generic one from Micro Center.
The reason I carry the Surface Pro is because my Windows software will run on it. Plus, it's got a USB port. If I care that much I'll just steal a full keyboard off someone's desk and plug it into the tablet. I'm in a corporate environment, it's not like USB keyboards are hard to come by. Crap, I keep one in my car...
Tablets are for consumption, not production (Score:5, Insightful)
What OS is installed doesn't change that. Surface users are frustrated that there are no apps for their devices.
Touch UIs suck, and the proof is all over the internet. Every time someone posts something like "I would [something], but I'm on my [phone|tablet|mobile]" it is a damning statement on how limited touch is compared to keyboard+mouse. Even common desktop tasks are a chore in touch.
I realized recently that maybe part of the reason why Apple resisted putting cut and paste into iOS for so long was because they couldn't figure out how to make it not suck. That's something Jobs would have obsessed over.
"they can't type, they can't create documents" (Score:4, Funny)
. . . a lot of folks I see using computers can't do that with a keyboard either . . .
Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents" (Score:5, Interesting)
People who need to create content already used specialized software and/or machines (aka PC, workstation, server, etc). They are not buying a tablet to replace that.
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Well, that's not a bad bet. Everybody consumes more content than they produce. I read more books than I write, and watch more movies than I direct.
Yep. (Score:3)
I don't get Microsoft's strategy here (Score:5, Insightful)
So according to Bill it boils down to MS Office (because you can simply get a keyboard for an iPad, just as you can for a Surface tablet).
The thing is however:
a) there's no native Office for Surface either (Office 2013 has no Metro-interface and isn't particularly suited for touch screens, even in touch-mode)
b) they are woking on a version of Office for iOS and Android
c) you can use Office 365 on whatever device that has a browser, which includes Surface, but also the iPad and all of the Android devices out there
How does that make the Surface any more attractive than the competition?
So start selling Office on the iPad (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is a software company, right?
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
I know everyone is going to hate on Bill but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I 100% agree with him. I can't type /at all/ on my iPad 2. Because I'm not the disciplined type that raises their fingers 100% before hitting the next key I find the iPad trippng up a lot. It also doesn't keep up when I'm typing quickly and I'm not patient enough to slow down to wait for it. I've even tried two third party keyboards and wasn't impressed with them (1 because it was small and travel sized, the other is that new fangled overlay .. I can't remember the name but I was a part of the kickstarter). Anyway, when it comes to typing anything of substance I always put down the iPad and go to my desktop computer.
In the end my iPad 2 has become the samething my X-Box has become, a bad, over-priced Netflix player.
What's my son doing up there in his bedroom? (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Abby,
Ever since we got my 13-year old an iPad, he's gone up to his bedroom after dinner each night and asked us to not disturb him while he "creates a document." Today I learned from Bill Gates that he can't actually create a document.
Should I knock before entering his room to ask about this?
Bill..... (Score:3)
Trying so hard to still be relevant.
He's trying hard to sell Balmer's terrible mistakes. Bill, I hope your money still isn't tied up in Microsoft Stock, as in 10 years it's gonna be over for you.
I can create documents on my phone. It's called a bluetooth keyboard and you can get one on Amazon for as little as $20 for a Chinese apple knock-off. (So cheap, I keep one at home, and one at work, so I don't have to carry the keyboard, just my phone).
Bill, you're smoking crack and you've missed the boat again.
To be fair on Billy (Score:3)
Bill, you're smoking crack and you've missed the boat again.
From the article http://allthingsd.com/20091005/while-fanboys-breathlessly-await-steve-jobs-apple-itab-they-should-probably-thank-bill-gates-too/ [allthingsd.com] "Way back in the fall of 2001, when BoomTown was but a less-aged version of myself, I attended a keynote speech at the now-defunct Comdex show in Las Vegas, where Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates continued to bang the drum for one of his long-running obsessions: The tablet computer.
“The tablet takes cutting-edge PC technology and makes it available whenever you
So frustrated... (Score:3)
We're so frustrated that we keep buying more and more iPads thinking it will fix the problem.
And of course, we would never do anything a stupid as use an iPad for what it's good for and a notebook or desktop for what they're good for. Nope. We assume every electronic device should do everything that our other electronic devices do. What I'm really frustrated about with the iPad is its inability to make toast or wash my clothes.
Dear Bill (Score:5, Insightful)
Get back to the fundamentals. Quit trying to copy Apple. You lost site of what made your ecosystem worthwhile on the desktop:
1. Hardware vendors that had to meet your standard, which was relatively open. Result? Lots of hardware that works with Windows.
2. I can develop anything I want without paying you anything except of course the OS and hardware. I buy your development tools because I like them, not because I have to buy them. I can develop with 3rd party tools if I want to do that. Result? Tons of software that runs on Windows.
3. Things take a long time to become obsolete. It seems like just yesterday that DOS applications still ran on Windows. I don't recall when this went away because by the time it did, all my DOS apps were gone because I didn't want them anymore; not because you forced my hand.
No, you're not Free/Open Source; but you're "open enough" and it was working.
You and your company got side-tracked by "app store envy". You thought you could be like Apple. You started clamping down on what was open, gripping too tight. Result? You have a lame Apple clone, and you alienated the people who liked you because of the numbered points above.
If Bill thinks iPad users are bad... (Score:5, Funny)
He should check out windows users sometime. They can't:
- find the very files that they just saved
- or even just browse the contents of their machine
- switch between programs without a mouse (I alt-tab and they go "woah, how'd you do that!?")
- change the toner catridge in the network printer themselves
- climb under their own dirty desks to plug things in
- be trusted to install their own software
- understand why IE is a poor choice
Yes, I did work as a support monkey for a little while.
BS (Score:3)
Lack of keyboard vs BSOD. (Score:3)
Wow a minor miracle.
BIll Gates notices that IPhone users are frustrated because they have to buy a bluetooth keyboard to type a lot.
Too bad he didn't notice that for two decades that Windows users are frustrated because their computers keep crashing.
A little bit of yes (Score:3)
Even accountants need double monitors. I am mostly a C++ developer using 2 screens and wishing for 3. My iPad is for watching Coursera and other lecture videos. My iPhone is for texting, a tiny bit of email, a microscopic amount of browsing, and for listening to Audiobooks and lectures, oh and phone calls.
In a super emergency I use my iPhone or iPad for SSHing into my server; but that is purified suckage.
If I had to make a prediction it would be that many consumers won't even consider getting a home PC what they will do is get large screened smart phones. A possibility is that a good docking station comes out so they can have a laptop type interface where the vast computing bulk comes from the phone. This way they can type longer letters, write school reports, properly interface with a printer, and fill out complicated on-line forms.
I don't want my tablet/smartphone to try to be more and fail. I don't ever want to edit a spreadsheet on something so frustrating. Any attempt to make it less frustrating will just frustrate me more.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.
You can certainly argue that business are wrong, but you can't argue with the fact that the tablet has made major inroads into the enterprise world.
Re:Yes (Score:4, Informative)
Probably because of a few things.
1) Tablets are generally light and very portable and easily held in one hand. If you're at a gathering where everyone is standing, it's easy to whip out a tablet and show people stuff - while still having your other hand free to gesture and communicate and other things. One-handed use is quite important when you do not have a surface to use as a stand. Holding a laptop in one hand is often awkward, clumsy, and until the recent touch screen ones, interactions are terrible.
2) Tablets have great battery life. An iPad or Android tablet will generally last all day even if you're showing lots of people your brochures and screenshots and stuff. PCs with such battery life usually have external batteries, making them really heavy and unwieldy, especially single-handed carry.
3) There is very little need to compose long documents while at the conference - you may need to type some stuff up quickly (like entering contact and calendar stuff), but that generally is quite minimal. If a document need does come up, it's often better to do it in a private hotel room to draft it and review it (only an idiot tries to compose it right then and there to get it signed - these things normally have to be drawn up and agreed upon and other things).
4) The most common use will probably be fulfilled by the tablet's default gallery application - load up product photos, slides, etc as images and then swipe through them. Add a bit more for product brochures and stuff and that's it.
5) Said gallery app is often useful to automatically run a slide show when placed on the booth, similar to digital photo frames.
Gates is probably looking for a reason to not justify releasing Office for iOS (and Android). I mean, his criticisms apply to every tablet as well, including Surface. That, and a touch screen demands a different user interaction than a keyboard/mouse, so UIs have to change to accommodate both. E.g., touchscreens, resistive or capacitive or inductive are imprecise (resistives can use styluses, but even then the point's inaccurate) making small targets hard to hit. A mouse is a lot more precise. A touchscreen doesn't have "right click", and likewise, Fitt's law doesn't apply to touchscreens. In fact, hitting edges and corners is harder on a touchscreen.
Re: Non-point-and-click video games (Score:3)
Games on the iPad that require such controls usually use on-screen controls where your hands will naturally rest when holding the device. Effectively, parts of the sides and corners of the display become your control pad. Some emulate distinct buttons (such as in Prince of Persia), whereas others use a sort of virtual thumbstick.
The best games also provide a system whereby when plugged into a TV or connected wirelessly to an external display they display their gaming graphics on the external display, and
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Nobody wants a PC in the office. Users are frustrated that the punch cards and terminals that they depend on for data processing are just not available for the PC.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?
What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not
Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing I've noticed since switching to a Windows tablet is how lousy the onscreen keyboard is. On most platforms, touchscreen keyboards try to incorporate things like predictive text, auto-capitalization, etc to help you type, because they realize that a touchscreen with no tactile feedback is a less-than-idea way to type. The Windows onscreen keyboards have none of that. What's more, they seem wildly inaccurate ... the visual feedback seems to be telling me that I'm hitting the right keys, but when I look up at what I entered, half of the letters are keys right next to the ones I thought I was hitting (and although I can touch type on a physical keyboard, I do have to look at the keys on a tablet).
What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not
Writing proposals
Writing code
Doing financial work
Doing systems administration
Screw all of that. Before you can do any of that, you have to enter your password to login to the system first. Try that when you have a strong password and you can't be totally sure what keys you're pressing.
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Informative)
One thing I've noticed since switching to a Windows tablet is how lousy the onscreen keyboard is. On most platforms, touchscreen keyboards try to incorporate things like predictive text, auto-capitalization, etc to help you type, because they realize that a touchscreen with no tactile feedback is a less-than-idea way to type. The Windows onscreen keyboards have none of that. What's more, they seem wildly inaccurate ... the visual feedback seems to be telling me that I'm hitting the right keys, but when I look up at what I entered, half of the letters are keys right next to the ones I thought I was hitting (and although I can touch type on a physical keyboard, I do have to look at the keys on a tablet).
When you say "Windows tablet" do you mean Surface? Because there are a lot of other products out there that run Windows 8. In any event, predictive text IS available in the vanilla Windows 8, you just have to enable it in the "Ease of access options" app. Here is a video that shows how: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60zFkIOzvTo [youtube.com]
Screw all of that. Before you can do any of that, you have to enter your password to login to the system first. Try that when you have a strong password and you can't be totally sure what keys you're pressing.
In Windows 8 there is a small eye icon in password fields when they get the focus, if you click on it you can see the field content in clear text.
Seriously, WIndows 8 has plenty of issues but people who can't STFW for basic tutorial information are just adding noise to the discussion.
Re: (Score:3)
When you say "Windows tablet" do you mean Surface?
No. A Samsung device.
In any event, predictive text IS available in the vanilla Windows 8, you just have to enable it in the "Ease of access options" app
So you're telling me that in order to get a feature that's standard on many platforms, I need to find the control panel that historically has been used to switch on features for the disabled? Why isn't there an option in the keyboard itself, instead of forcing me to go hunting all over creation to find it?
In Windows 8 there is a small eye icon in password fields when they get the focus, if you click on it you can see the field content in clear text.
That's only of minimal help when I'm trying to enter a mix of letters, numbers, and symbol characters and the keyboard is finicky.
Seriously, WIndows 8 has plenty of issues but people who can't STFW for basic tutorial information are just adding noise to the discussion.
And as others have noted, searching the web to find te
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
If you write in a non alphabetic system the on screen keyboard is leaps an bounds better than a physical keyboard. In properly developed applications like Apple's Numbers the contextual keyboard is much better to data input than any physical counterpart. Only on plain text writing is a better choice an optional physical keyboard. Another benefit, from Apple's POV is that they only offer a single product for a worldwide audience, improving their margins and the management of inventory. There is more behind A
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Funny)
Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?
What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not
Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?
You don't need a keyboard to post cat videos with your iProduct.
Re: (Score:3)
I think you've just demonstrated that Bill Gates is right on this one.
You see, people want smaller lighter devices that are easier to carry around. This is why for example, the ipad sold well, and then the smaller tablets sold even better. However these smaller devices pose a problem: their form factor mostly delegates them to content consumption, with very limited content creation.
And what is it that engineers do? Solve problems. Does that mean the solution is with Microsoft? Not necessarily. But the next
Re: (Score:3)
the use case being "output only"
Re: (Score:3)
The use case you described was about data processing.
The use case LordLimecat described was about data processing.
How exactly are they
different
use
case?
Re: (Score:3)
The software to create and edit documents on the tablet just isn't mature enough to do the things I am used to. Web based editors act weird. Apps miss a feature I want or whatever.
You're right, but you're missing the point. What really makes using a PC so much better than a tablet for creating documents (or other real work that people have to do) is not the software, its the hardware: a nice big monitor, a real keyboard and a real mouse.
Tablets will never have that and so will always remain inferior for certain things.
Re:We Already Tried This. (Score:5, Insightful)
Netbooks didn't "die" on their own.
They were designed with crippling "birth defects" (weak CPU, limited RAM) so as not to eat notebook market share. It worked and after the initial surge, sales dropped off.
Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.
10" vs. 12" in the back seat of a compact car (Score:3)
Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.
If you have to use a laptop in cramped quarters, such as a bus, airplane, or the back seat of a C-segment compact car, is there a noticeable difference between the 10" screen of a netbook and the 12" screen of a ThinkPad X200 series? Does the seat in front of you push the screen to an odd angle?
Re:We Already Tried This. (Score:4, Informative)
Netbooks didn't "die" on their own.
They were designed with crippling "birth defects" (weak CPU, limited RAM) so as not to eat notebook market share. It worked and after the initial surge, sales dropped off.
Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.
They didn't have birth defects, they were strangled in their infancy by Microsoft.
MS made it a requirement that netbooks had to have weak CPU's and RAM limited as not to eat the notebook market share because MS charged more per license for a $500 notebook than they did for a $300 netbook.
But this did not last as we now have 11" "ultrabooks" which are basically netbooks without the weak CPU and RAM limits (and price tag).
Re:Why compete with the dying platform (Score:4, Insightful)
That's only half the story. When Android first came out on phones, they rapidly overtook Apple because there were a bunch of new players jumping into the game. Now that the market has stabilized, the pendulum is swinging back the other way. In the United States, iPhone sales are actually growing again, and now exceed Android phone sales. Worldwide, the numbers are also trending back in that direction. Chances are, the relative mix of sales will oscillate back and forth for a while before hitting some magic point of equilibrium in which a certain percentage of devices are iOS and a certain percentage are Android, and that won't change much until there is some major disruptive innovation. That's generally the way mature markets work.
Similarly, right now, Android is growing much faster in tablets because it's really easy to grow from zero to nonzero. Once that market ceases to gain new players (and eventually, it will pretty much stabilize), there's no reason to believe that we won't see the same pattern emerging.
You're half right. Microsoft wants their duopoly back. Right now, it's pretty much an Android/Apple duopoly, and Microsoft is just warming up the bench. As far as I can tell, Apple doesn't really care who their competitor is, so long as they have one. Competition drives Apple to provide a better platform, and in the end, that's good for pretty much everyone, whether you're an Apple user or an Android user.
If you honestly think that iPad is a dying platform, I have a bridge to sell you. Dying platforms don't tell 70+ WWDC tickets per second at $1,599 a pop.
Lets look at the figures :) (Score:3)
That's only half the story. When Android first came out on phones, they rapidly overtook Apple because there were a bunch of new players jumping into the game. Now that the market has stabilized, the pendulum is swinging back the other way.
...the other half of the story I'm afraid to tell you is a whole lot worse here are the latest figures for Apple smartphones http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24085413 [idc.com] The short version is Apple dropped in one quarter from 23% to 17.3%. Year on Year it had single digit growth of 6.6% in a market that grew 41%. What your saying in not only off-topic but not true.
Re: (Score:3)