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OS X GNOME Microsoft Apple

Gnome Founder Miguel de Icaza Moves To Mac 815 815

TrueSatan writes "Miguel de Icaza, via his blog, has explained his gradual move to the Apple Mac platform. 'While I missed the comprehensive Linux toolchain and userland, I did not miss having to chase the proper package for my current version of Linux, or beg someone to package something. Binaries just worked.' Here is one of his main reasons: 'To me, the fragmentation of Linux as a platform, the multiple incompatible distros, and the incompatibilities across versions of the same distro were my Three Mile Island/Chernobyl.' Reaction to his announcement includes a blog post from Jonathan Riddell of Blue Systems/Kubuntu. Given de Icaza's past association with Microsoft (CodePlex Foundation) and the Free Software Foundation's founder Richard Stallman's description of de Icaza as a 'traitor to the free software community,' this might be seen as more of a blow to Microsoft than to GNU/Linux."
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Gnome Founder Miguel de Icaza Moves To Mac

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  • Good Riddance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by binarylarry (1338699) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:13PM (#43086233)

    Now he's going to try to clone all of Microsoft's clones of other people's technology for the Mac.

    Lets see how far that gets him.

  • by weilawei (897823) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:15PM (#43086257) Homepage
    And never looked back. Linux maintains its place as my workhorse, while I rest in the comfort of whichever other OS I feel like using that day, typically OS X or iOS. SSH and SFTP fill the gaps.
  • by rubycodez (864176) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:19PM (#43086321)

    you can run it on your PC; Apple doesn't like it but you can do it

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:19PM (#43086323)

    ...but sometimes you just have to Get. Shit. Done. Part of getting shit done is using tools that Just Work.

    Yes. Freedom. Openness. Yadda. Yadda. All good things. I agree with them. I also need to ship code. That's the difference between my project and HURD. Sometimes, I just don't care if the tools I use were made from crushed unicorn horns and children's spleens.

  • de Icaza (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RazorSharp (1418697) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:22PM (#43086369)

    I'm starting to think this guy just likes to read about himself in the news. I think his announcement is pretty funny - Linux Mint is a shining example of Linux as a functional desktop OS. It's still not as polished as OS X, but I do find myself using OS X less and less these days.

    Maybe he's just butthurt that Gnome probably doesn't have much of a future. I mean, the older versions are great if, uh, your graphics card stops working or something. . .

  • by postbigbang (761081) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:23PM (#43086383)

    You trade one slavery for another. The Cult of Macheads will mod me down, but Apple owns you as much as Microsoft does. Icaza trades one set of commercial business ecosystems for another.

  • Whatever.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tetrahedrassface (675645) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:24PM (#43086399) Journal

    Been running Linux for 15 years now, and it's better than it ever has been. I guess this guy just lost whatever zeal he never really had in the first place for free software.....Read his blog post and it seems like he's just bored or lazy, or both. Oh well......

  • by rubycodez (864176) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:25PM (#43086421)

    bullshit, it's a very incomplete .NET 4.0 missing huge parts of the framework. and let's not forget Moonlight, now dead.

    incomplete system like that is fit only for a trainwreck of a project, like say GNOME3

  • by metrix007 (200091) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:25PM (#43086425)

    It doesn't matter his affiliation or if he likes or even works for MS or not. Judge the statement on it's own, and it's true.

    It's something Linux geeks have trouble admitting, but it is the sole reason Linux usage has not skyrocketed in adoption. If the LSB worked anthing close to how it was envisioned, developers would flock to the platform and then so would users.

    At the moment, people use the distro they like and defend, while non linux geeks use distros like Ubuntu or Mint, which are the only platforms commercial developers tend to target.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:28PM (#43086475)

    It's ironic that he complains about fragmentation, since he's largely responsible. Gnome is pretty shitty, but numerous distributions waste effort either supporting it or for some reason using it primarily instead of KDE which is a lot better. If it weren't Gnome all Linux desktops would have long ago standardized on KDE and we'd be better off for it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:38PM (#43086599)

    [citation needed] Eula != Law

  • Re:de Icaza (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:42PM (#43086647)

    Linux Mint is a shining example of Linux as a functional desktop OS.

    Did they ever get the man pages working on that?

  • Really? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by greywire (78262) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:43PM (#43086655) Homepage
    What a bunch of immature highschool kids. Stallman is a douchebag. And now Miguel uses a Mac? Man, RMS must be having a total mental breakdown now. WTF people?

    Its really simple. You can f around with linux endlessly or you can get tired of it and move on to something more interesting. Obviously, Miguel is getting older and just doesn't want to f around with linux anymore. The Mac (for now) just gets things done. Thats not to say that nobody should f around with linux, obviously we need those people to do that, and eventually they'll get it more and more solid. Bless their little hearts. But in the mean time, other people want to f around with other things and not have to constantly be f'ing with linux.

    Its like cars (or motorcycles)...

    When your younger, you don't mind the beater car that you have to repair all the time. You dream of the day when its perfectly restored, but you never get there. One day you just realize, you have other things you want to do, so you buy a new car that just works. If you're lucky you can now afford one because you stopped f'ing with linux and started f'ing with something else that you can make a good living at. And if you're really lucky, you pick up some pile of junk [] to work on solely as a hobby and without the stress of wondering if the f'ing thing is going to get you to work on time.

  • Re:Join the party (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Volanin (935080) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:48PM (#43086687)

    I have a Macbook. It runs Linux exclusively. People might have diverging opinions about the price, but very few question that it's a very well engineered machine. Have you tried looking at their screens to see what OS they were running?

    By the way, 10 years ago iBooks were still using PowerPC processors, and Macbooks didn't exist until 2006.

  • Interesting (Score:2, Insightful)

    by razorshark (2843829) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:52PM (#43086749)

    I found myself moving from Linux back to Windows 7. Turns out I didn't actually care what fanboys proclaimed Linux could do if the software I wanted to run didn't exist in Linux. Or that my USB3 ports were busted in Linux due to a regression in the kernel that no-one bothered to fix. Or that there aren't any GUI file managers that are as quick at displaying info (and enough details including bitrates and resolutions) that are capable in Explorer.

    Shame. But I think I've rid myself of the fanboy stink and use whatever the fuck I want now.

  • by Ice Station Zebra (18124) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:52PM (#43086755) Homepage Journal

    Nexus tablet runs Linux

    Galaxy phone runs Linux

    Wintendo what the hell is that?

  • de Icaza (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jgotts (2785) <> on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:53PM (#43086761)

    Please refrain from attacking de Icaza for these simple reasons.

    Like Stallman, de Icaza has donated countless hours of organization and programming time to Linux. Neither got rich as a result. Politics aside, Linux is about superior engineering, even if only as a side effect. Because of the efforts of these two individuals, among many others, Linux is now the most popular operating system on the planet. By any stretch of the imagination, they were and are victorious. Android is closing in on a billion users, but regardless of what Google's marketing materials may tell you, Android is a Linux distribution, and GNU and GNOME have been perfecting Linux distributions for over two decades.

    I understand that Android does not ship with much GNU or GNOME software, but GNU and GNOME are what built Linux. Without either, the foundations upon which Android runs would never have accreted enough functionality to even think about running a smartphone.

    As mostly non-rich people, often not closely allied with specific companies, we don't have publicists or agents. We don't come off as polished. We don't have speech writers. Forgive us for seeming offensive, rude, obnoxious, conceited, full of ourselves, or some other adjective. We're people, and as engineers we're trained to traffic in the honest truth. Once you meet us you'll like us, for the most part. And even if you don't, enjoy using our software. Contribute if you like.

  • by Sponge Bath (413667) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @08:57PM (#43086797)

    You trade one slavery for another. The Cult of Macheads will mod me down...

    Choice of computing platform is not slavery. Liking things that work is not a cult.

  • by Freshly Exhumed (105597) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:01PM (#43086839) Homepage

    On reading Miguel's blog post I found myself thinking about a character who showed up on Gilligan's Island who was perpetually lost in his biplane. His nickname was "Wrong Way."

    Ever notice how Miguel always seems to get involved in chaotic situations and then flees them by taking the wrong train, ending up in the middle of nowhere? Why does anyone even listen to this guy?

  • by mystikkman (1487801) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:03PM (#43086861)

    Mono was a pointless waste of time and De Icaza is a quisling turn coat. Apple deserves that worthless pile of donkey shit.

    Lets see:

    Miguel's contributions to Linux:

    1) Midnight Commander
    2) Contributions to Wine
    3) He worked with David S. Miller on the Linux SPARC port and wrote several of the video and network drivers in the port, as well as the libc ports to the platform.
    4) They both later worked on extending Linux for MIPS to run on SGI's Indy computers and wrote the original X drivers for the system.
    5) With Ingo Molnar he wrote the original software implementation of RAID-1 and RAID-5 drivers of the Linux kernel
    6) De Icaza started the GNOME project with Federico Mena in August 1997 to create a completely free desktop environment and component model for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.
    7) He also created the GNOME spreadsheet program, Gnumeric.

    Your contributions to Slashdot:
    1) Silly karmawhoring hatefilled anti-Microsoft rants on Slashdot

    Who has made better contributions to the progress of Open Source?

  • Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:06PM (#43086905)


    This has ALWAYS been the basic dichotomy that the Linux faithful (which definitely included me at one time) fail to grasp: One group of people see computers as a fun thing, something to be explored and tinkered with, even if they use them for real and serious work. The other group considers computers,operating systems, apps, etc. as a big, steaming pile of inconvenience they have to tolerate to do something else -- work, listen to music, whatever. This is why do-nothing tablets are so wildly popular -- they manage to eliminate a lot of the hassles of running Windows while spoon-feeding users e-mail and the Web and media. Most people here (including me) consider them pretty toys and nowhere near capable enough to replace even an old, painfully slow laptop.

  • by postbigbang (761081) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:16PM (#43087051)

    You confuse choice with slavery. Some choices have masters. Some, like Linux and BSD, do not. They may have their own cults, drama queens, and idiots, but also leaders, contributors, and plentiful competition.

    Some choices do not, and I equate *them* with slavery.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:22PM (#43087115)

    Because you equate it doesn't make it fact. Slavery has a very strict definition and you're twisting of it does good for no one.

  • by razorshark (2843829) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:25PM (#43087155)

    And yet MY experience is also very different... to yours. I cannot rely on Linux simply because its user-base is so small that the niggling issues which crop up often don't get reported enough to grab the attention of a suitable developer, or are swept under the WONFIX rug. There's no point mentioning them because everyone has their own set of issues, which they either work around or go back to Windows for. I'm tired of workarounds.

    I can trust a finely tuned Linux system for a mission critical task, but not for a general purpose desktop.

  • by postbigbang (761081) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:34PM (#43087257)

    Just because you disagree with me, doesn't make it not true.

    Each of these platforms has enormous degrees of vortex, along with inducements and outright shock troops to keep you "in the herd".

    Platform slavery is well known. I don't, in using it, diminish the horrible context of human slavery. Human slavery is a different subject for a different day. This is about Icaza going from Microsoft to Apple with a blush on his face. This isn't about Dr MLK, or Selma, or Chinese girls in Boston brothels.

  • Re:de Icaza (Score:1, Insightful)

    by elashish14 (1302231) <profcalc4&gmail,com> on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:48PM (#43087399)

    Maybe now we can leave behind the monstrosity that is Gnome Shell and start moving back to a usable, human desktop. I suggest rebuilding the goodness that was Gnome 2 in Gnome 3. Start from Cinnamon, which is totally functional, but could use some nice enhancements and a more refined panel.

    Unless de Icaza's awful UI philosophy pervades the entire Gnome team...

  • by seebs (15766) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:54PM (#43087463) Homepage

    Wait, so, the guy who basically pushed 90% of the bloat, incompatibility, and other such madness I've ever seen in Linux is leaving because of the bloat and incompatibility?

    Dude, not cool. You made that bed, now lie in it.

  • Re:Whatever.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:58PM (#43087495)
    Many things changed since you had to "compile and tweak libproffer0.2.3". Today Linux just works, and for me personally it is much easier to use than Windows. So, "My family time is limited and I'd rather be spending it with them" than uninstalling "Antivirus 2000" trojan or toolbar.
  • Re:Whatever.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by smash (1351) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @09:59PM (#43087503) Homepage Journal
    This. So much this. Mirrors my experience pretty much as well. I started out on slackware back in 1995 and moved to the mac because I can afford the money but don't want to spend the TIME fucking around just to make shit work.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @10:00PM (#43087509)

    Dude's got more legitimate cred than ESR ever had really. People just can't get their heads around the fact that a Linux guy can like elements of other software ecosystems.

  • by future assassin (639396) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @10:02PM (#43087535) Homepage

    seven cats and one dog. Four laptops running Mint 14, 1 netbook running Mint 11, HTPC running Mint 14 KDE and second htpc running Mint 14 KDE. AND guess what, they all just work after install. Weird how you can't get it to just work.

    but now I like my home computer to just work. They cost more, but are worth it. I still have a unix command line and most of the open source tools but have access to commercial software as well.

    Yummy KoolAid.

  • "Traitor"? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @10:16PM (#43087707)

    What did they say about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel?

  • Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 0123456 (636235) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @10:22PM (#43087771)

    Q: what do you actually "get done" with Linux?

    Pretty much everything.

    My day job is Linux. My home systems are Linux, other than one new Windows PC for high-end gaming and an old one for iTunes. I can see four Linux systems from where I'm sitting on the sofa, not counting the Android tablet and four to six embedded Linux devices (I'm not sure exactly which of my Blu-Ray/DVD players are running Linux).

    Because I'm willing to bet that whatever it is you're doing on Linux could be done just as easily on OS X without fucking about maintaining the operating system.

    Wow, yes, because running apt-get upgrade or the upgrade manager every few days is just _SO_ demanding.

    That would totally have been worth paying 2.5x as much to buy an Apple laptop with less powerful hardware than this one running Linux.

  • by Grayhand (2610049) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @10:29PM (#43087841)

    Time to open up OSX and allow it to be installed on any computer.

    A tired response to a tired post. Apple is a hardware maker not an OS maker. They only make OSs to support their hardware. This explains the price difference between Mac upgrades and Windows upgrades. They make their profits off the hardware. They could potentially offer a version of the OS at a higher price that could be installed on PCs but people like you would complain about the price difference. They can't win this argument so why play the game? You want open there's Linux. You want Mac OS then there's Macs. You want everything your way, life sucks and get used to it! Christ when I was in my teens computers ran off Cassette drives! Be happy. 20 years ago Macs cost the same as a car. Cars got more expensive and Macs got cheaper and you're still complaining! Your average smart phone has a 100X the power of my first computer. My iPad would have probably been a super computer when I was a kid. If you were thrown back in time to the 70s or 80s you'd think you were in hell. Just imagine the 60s, as in pre calculator days when computers ran off punch cards. You're living in a time of miracles and you're whining about running OSX on hardware it was never designed to run on! My expartner bought a Mac clone off some one that claimed it worked faster than a Mac Pro. The damned thing was slower than a Mac Mini and crashed constantly. I made him take it back to the idiot that sold it to him. Is that what you want? A slower than hell OSX that crashes constantly? I'm sure you'd just blame Apple for not supporting PC hardware better!

  • by vinehair (1937606) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @11:01PM (#43088099)
    No, you're just devaluing the word slavery by using it in that ridiculous way, because there's already a term for what you're trying to describe: vendor lock-in.
  • by SocietyoftheFist (316444) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @11:08PM (#43088171)

    His issues are issues that users have been having for some time. My first Linux was Slack 2.4 I believe and I moved to Mac OS X in 2007. It is nice having something that just works. In a way OS X is FreeBSD finally getting the recognition it deserved.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @11:19PM (#43088265)

    Just because you believe it really really strongly doesn't make it true, either.

  • by nxcho (754392) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @11:34PM (#43088391)
    Yup. Representatives from my technology company of choice just knocked on my door. They are coming to chain me and send me to the cotton fields.
  • Re:Whatever.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gavagai80 (1275204) on Tuesday March 05, 2013 @11:46PM (#43088495) Homepage
    I'm too lazy to pop in any DVDs or download any binary blobs, which is a major reason I prefer linux. I can't remember the last time I wanted something that wasn't in the repositories.
  • by SEE (7681) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @12:05AM (#43088657) Homepage

    The guy who launched GNOME as a counter to KDE is complaining about "the fragmentation of Linux as a platform"? Tthe guy who made the decision replace GNUstep (which was the GNU project's official toolkit/framework in 1996) in favor of GTK â" he's fled to the Mac? He's got the chutzpah to say, "Linux just never managed to cross the desktop chasm"â"without admitting that his decisions are a major cause of that failure?

    Good damn riddance.

  • by razorshark (2843829) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @12:35AM (#43088907)

    Weird how you can't get it to just work.

    So it works for you? Great. Don't denigrate others if it doesn't work for them; computers are complex beasts - they don't work the same for everyone. Fuck I hate Linux users sometimes, basically suggesting it's odd if it has problems. It's still code written by a human.

    seven cats and one dog.

    Not sure how that's relevant to a discussion about an operating system. Though maybe the cat enjoys sitting on your laptops more in winter because of Linux's poor power management capabilities (read: runs hotter) compared to Windows.

  • Re:Whatever.... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @12:48AM (#43088995)

    Many things changed since you had to "compile and tweak libproffer0.2.3".

    I only use Linux where it belongs (servers), and "compile and tweak libproffer0.2.3" is still situation normal.

    As soon as you get outside the vanilla use-cases the packaging system supports, you're essentially on your own, with just your buddies configure and make. *nix software seems to lean heavily on compile-type options rather than runtime configuration. Why this is, I can't understand. Prolly just laziness.

    Perhaps things are better with the desktop-level software.

  • by amiga3D (567632) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @01:45AM (#43089403)

    I migrated from the Amiga to linux and over a decade later I'm pretty happy with it. It's not a perfect world but it's better than the alternatives and it's free. Not bad at all. I don't mind having to fix things up on a free operating system but paying out a bunch of money for windows and then struggling to keep it going would piss me off. I do have OS X on a mini and strangely that just works as long as I don't want to do anything Apple doesn't approve of. Linux video tools are getting better though so I may pass on OS X soon as well.

  • Re:Whatever.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fearofcarpet (654438) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @01:46AM (#43089411)

    "Been running Linux for 15 years now, and it's better than it ever has been."

    You're right, it is better than it ever has been. I cut my teeth on Slackware, back when a bad X11 .config actually fucked up your monitor. And I did just that. Through it all, there was never a better operating system that was as open or as flexible as Linux. I could run it on cobbled together parts from dead x86 boxes pulled from dumpster dives.

    Now that I actually have some disposable income, I chose a Mac. Why? It let's me get shit done instead of fiddle-fucking with things that I don't honestly care about anymore. Back in college, I had all the time to compile and tweak libproffer0.2.3 from alpha to see if I could get it work. Now, I'd rather just pop in a DVD or download a binary blob and drag it to /Applications. My family time is limited and I'd rather be spending it with them. Does that mean the extra few hundred bucks was wasted? Maybe. I'd gladly trade that. My circumstances are my own experiences, but these are my opinions.

    I'm right there with you; back in the day not only did I have the time to tinker with X11 .config or compile the latest kernel from source, but it was in fact how I learned about computers and was exposed to programming (I am not a programmer nor do I do anything related to IT for a living). These days it is way more important for me to have a fast, reliable workflow that is compatible with all the other software that my largely computer illiterate colleagues work with. I routinely send documents out in ODT format and have them returned in DOCX; at least I can fire up Word on my Mac and export it in DOC so NeoOffice can open it correctly. But as much as I love the MacBook Air, I hate Apple desktops, so I do run OSX on a hackintosh... I dunno, maybe to maintain some semblance of nerd cred.

    At home I still run Linux because I prefer it and I'm not under time pressure. But I still keep an OSX partition for days when I work from home because, at the end of the day, I find that what I really like about OSX is the availability of software. There are some killer programs--most by small developers--that just don't exist on other platforms and that make my life easier. However, I find the direction the OS is headed distressing. Let's say I want to copy a Keynote presentation and then edit the copy; I'd better remember to first "Duplicate" and then "Save a Copy" because if I edit it first and then Duplicate it will ask if I want to Revert first, but if I don't, then I get two copies of the edited document and have to waste time reverting the original with the pointlessly fancy Apple-style graphics. Why? Because Apple unilaterally decided that "Save As" needed to go away (sounds familiar... GNOME!). And don't get me started on the disaster that is iTunes, the abomination that Apple insists drive my venerable and infinitely useful iPod Nano. At lest I can still use rsync to backup my Mac.

    My hope is that something--maybe Linux gaming--will drive Linux just enough into the mainstream that the same sort of software that I like on the Mac starts popping up on Linux. Then I will probably migrate away from the hybrid iOSenstein that OSX has morphed into that ties you to the Apple Cloud and Appstore and actively punishes you for using Android devices instead of i-things.

  • by stenvar (2789879) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @02:05AM (#43089521)

    Mono is the best managed code environment outside of the JVM, and arguably better in many respects. Are you saying that Linux should not support any form of VM? Maybe you'll write us an alternative. Yeah, right.

    Technically, Mono is great. Unfortunately, Miguel completely failed to establish it as a Linux standard by antagonizing much of the Linux community and failing to assuage licensing and patent concerns. Frankly, as an early Mono adopter and supporter, I feel let down by him. Let him be happy with his Mac; I won't miss him.

  • by perpenso (1613749) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @02:40AM (#43089685)
    I used to configure my desktop PCs to dual boot Windows and Linux. I started doing so in the mid 90s. Some tasks were just better performed in a unix environment. I didn't care about the politics of linux, I just wanted a unix environment. In more recent years I've found that Mac OS X fills this role quite well, for both traditional unix tools and whatever FOSS software I want to run. Some folks seem to erroneously equate FOSS with linux but configure; make; make install seems to work just as well under os x for what I've tried. Mac OS X just makes for a better desktop environment. I still use linux, but its running on the headless servers in the closet. I have linux VMs to start up in VMWare should I actually need Linux but I don't think I've started one up in a year. At the time I had to write something that would be deployed on a RHEL box and I started the project at home under CentOS.
  • by peppepz (1311345) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @03:25AM (#43089877)
    Some people don't feel the need for freedom as long as they're not bitten by the lack of it, that's why many people actually don't dislike living under dictatorships of varying kind and degree.

    On Linux, things are somewhat easy when you walk on the paved road, then they can become somewhat troublesome when you step out of it.
    On the Mac, things are very easy when you do what the OS designers planned you to do, but then they can become impossible when you want to do something else.

    Oh and by the way, speaking of children and unicorns, certain tools one might buy at a computer shop could really have been built by underage workers being exploited in sweatshops. With globalization, it happens (at least Apple take measures when they find that it happened to their products []).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @03:43AM (#43089945)

    I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't much FreeBSD in OS X. People keep repeating that, but it's not true.

  • by the_B0fh (208483) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @03:55AM (#43089987) Homepage

    Seriously, are you still spouting that bullshit? For the configuration Apple chooses to sell, they are very competitive on pricing. Ultrabooks are typically more expensive than MacBook Airs, and the very cheap ones have really shitty cases.

    Or are you one of those assholes who like to compare a macbook air to a cheapie $250 netbook?

    Mucking Foron.

  • by JonJ (907502) <> on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @05:05AM (#43090271)
    Yeah, all those people out there using Macs know that it's really a mix of FreeBSD and various other software underneath... Or do they?
  • by Tough Love (215404) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @05:20AM (#43090353)

    The Gnome project was a disaster from beginning to end. It accomplished exactly one useful thing: Trolltech was forced to GPL QT. At that point, Gnome should have been promptly shut down, having accomplished its purpose, and Linux on the desktop would be much further advanced than it is. But instead we have this crippled zombie thing that shambles on and on. Somebody put a stake in its heart or something please.

  • by silentcoder (1241496) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @05:21AM (#43090361) Homepage

    >My guess is that in this case this is an Ableton Libe problem and not an OS X problem.

    Hey if Linux can get blamed for the misbehaviour of proprietory apps, and indeed if proprietory app-makers can complain that they cannot build for every linux system (when NO free software developer ever has that problem - it comes from not playing by the rules, if you give us the source, you never have to build for ANYTHING - each distro will build it for itself and you need not know how ANY of them does it) then blaming apple for the behaviour of an application sold for apple is simply tit for tat.

    Linux people always hear Linux being blamed for the faillures of third parties. But oddly, software in the repo almost always "just works" - the problems almost always comes in from stuff that are't in the repos and are not in fact maintainable by the community whom you are blaming for it's failure. People have tried and failed to solve this for years (the gaming companies almost all went for self-extracting archivesin uuencoded shell scripts for example).
    A user's experience of working on a platform is determined just as much by the platform and those who develop well for it, as by those who develop badly for it. This is utterly unfair and irrational but it's nevertheless true.
    How much better would some of the GP's have rated the linux desktop if they limited themselves to ONLY the stuff in the repos (and that's without getting into a free software only argument - which I personally DO believe in and stick to).
    People actually feel their linux experience is harmed because skype on linux is so inferior to skype on windows - but that is not only skype (or now microsoft)'s fault, it's not something linux developers CAN do anything about whatsoever. The best we could do is offer ekiga - but that has so little market-share that it doesn't solve the problem.

    So tit for tat I say.
    That all said - whenever I have to use any windows platform it irritates the living daylights out of me, which is why I stick to mint+KDE. I tried a Mac a while ago... yuerch... it just didn't want to work the way *I* want to work.
    Nobody tells me how my desktop should function, that's MY decision, because I am most productive in a system set up and customized to my particular workflows. The only desktop that actually respects that is KDE.

  • by waspleg (316038) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @05:32AM (#43090431) Journal

    I just read at least a dozen "but OSX just WORKS!!" threads, "I don't have to do anything to make it WORK!#@!".

    Well, guess what. What you spend your money on is *REAL* *VOTING*; more than any election.

    When you *VOTE* for shitty, evil Apple Business Practices (that would be ALL OF THEM), you're supporting and proliferating Evil (tm). They're worse than Microsoft, just without as many of your Billions. Keep feeding the beast and see what happens.

  • Re:Good Riddance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oPless (63249) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @06:07AM (#43090603) Journal

    Dang, I wish I had mod points.

    Miguel has a massive track record of producing FOSS, way before Mono. He's (well, under his stewardship) actually done more with mono than I imagined he would.

    He's also found ways to make the mono project profitable, and more importantly survive more than a few transitions over the past 12? years.

    The trolls gotta be hating.

    He's just moving to a platform that he prefers, I'd be saying the same thing if he had moved to windows 8 (hahaha) or (lol) Hurd.

  • by BrokenHalo (565198) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @07:38AM (#43091023)
    I don't think it's very fair to say the Gnome project was a disaster. Sure, in the context of present-day desktop environments, GNOME 1.x looks pretty damn horrible now. But back then, comparing it to KDE (which, to be fair, was in some respects the more reliably functional interface) it was not bad. At that time, I really hated KDE, since it was so kfucking kluttered and kfugly.

    I stuck with GNOME from 1997 until the end of the 2.x versions, since it did what I needed it to do reasonably well. Meanwhile, the early KDE 4.x releases were unusable. Sadly, GNOME 3.x has followed suit (and appears set to stay that way), while KDE has re-evolved itself in recent versions as a really nice, feature-rich environment.
  • by fygment (444210) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @09:07AM (#43091511)

    27" iMac 4-core with 8 GB RAM - cost ~$1800CAN
    A competitive screen (same resolution) from Samsung costs $1100CAN. Add in a good wireless keyboard and mouse, the RAM, HD, etc. and the difference between the homebuilt PC and iMac is maybe $200CAN BUT ... you have a big ass, noisy box sitting on or near your desk with wires snaking to and from the monitor. Conversely, the iMac fits cleanly, quietly, and completely on your desk.
    If you want to game, maybe there is an argument for the PC. If you need to work or relax and enjoy some media, Apple ... period.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @09:26AM (#43091619)

    Linux is like a large set of blueprints for some version of every tool known to man, each written in a different format, each demanding slightly different measuring units for part dimensions, slightly different standards for screw threads, and each demanding slightly different kinds of input power and power generators.

    MacOS is like a complete set of Stanley tools that all Just Work for >95% of all use cases without the need to think about compatibility.

    A skilled craftsperson could certainly build more and bigger kinds of things with the complete set of blueprints than with the complete Stanley tool set, or indeed, develop a personal toolset of comparable utility. However, not everyone sees the benefit of having to update the alloy composition of all the mains power connectors in the house for the sake of using this month's new pinking shears with 1% more tightness around the grip.

  • Re:Good Riddance (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jellomizer (103300) on Wednesday March 06, 2013 @10:16AM (#43092031)

    The Open Source Community needs innovators, Just as long as those innovations follow the the traditional Unix model of the 1970's.

    There is a good number of Open Source supporters who main goal is to keep computing complex and difficult, so they can feel good about the hours of learning they did to operate these systems, only to find that on an other system that process that takes a day can be done in one click.

    Yes I do like Linux and Unix, and I think it is great for Servers and Embedded systems, where it does a few things and does it well. However for the desktop we need to do a lot of crazy things all the time. That is where Macs and Windows excels. If you are working in IT and you are doing your job right, everyday needs to be different. Linux can handle all the routine stuff because it is excellent at automating processes. However for your desktop you will be doing those odd ball cannot automate stuff, because you will only be doing it once. In that case you need a system that is good at that.

Gosh that takes me back... or is it forward? That's the trouble with time travel, you never can tell." -- Doctor Who, "Androids of Tara"