Steve Jobs' Yacht Impounded In Amsterdam 221
SchrodingerZ writes "The Venus, Steve Jobs' custom-made mega yacht, (valued at 137.5 million dollars), has been impounded in Amsterdam. Philippe Starck, the boat's main designer, had The Venus impounded by debt collectors, after supposedly Starck and his company, Ubik, were paid only 6 million of the 9-million-euro commission. Roelant Klaassen, a lawyer for Ubik, released in a statement that 'These guys [Jobs and Starck] trusted each other, so there wasn't a very detailed contract.' 'The Venus is a floating ode to both Jobs and Starck's minimalist aesthetic. Made entirely out of aluminum, with 40-foot-long floor-to-ceiling windows lining the passenger compartment and seven 27-inch iMacs making up the command center.' The ship was unofficially unveiled in late October, a year after Jobs' death. It now sits dormant in the Port of Amsterdam, until the payment dispute is resolved."
"Valued"? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Valued at 137.5 M$"?
Ahem...
I gather that's what Jobs paid for it, but if his heirs were to put that ugly-ass, unseaworthy monstrosity up for sale, something tells me it would fetch a lot less.
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...something tells me it would fetch a lot less.
How much does a pound of aluminum get you at the recycling center these days?
Steve doesn't miss it at all... (Score:5, Insightful)
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No written contract. Stark is a moron.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Steve doesn't miss it at all... (Score:5, Informative)
Expect this dispute to drag out for a while. Steve is dead, and the market for mega-yachts is never brisk. If the contract had a high content of handshakes and winks instead of numbers with signatures, the dispute could get uglier than the yacht, and that's saying something.
Nope. It's already been resolved with the family promising to pay the extra 3 million.
Source (Dutch; google translate doesn't handle it well): http://www.nu.nl/internet/2990610/familie-steve-jobs-lost-geschil-rond-boot.html [www.nu.nl]
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Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Funny)
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That's actually what killed him. It wasn't the pancreatic cancer.
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It's all the windows, for me. That yacht is incapable of weathering a real storm. Twenty foot seas will cave those ridiculous windows in, flood, then capsize the stupid thing.
You sail on it - I don't even want to take a tour while tied to a pier.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure in a storm Steve would reroute all power to the reality distortion field and it would be all Sunny and a flat sea for them.
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Someone yelled what you're yelling, and now people are repeating this over the internets.
Runaway, you are a copy-pasting idiot, not a ship builder, yet you are pretending to make an intelligent comment by a ship builder.
Guess what, karma begging moron, one can build a seaworthy yacht with those windows:
http://www.liveyachting.com/motor-yacht-netanya-8
Guess what, skyscrapers catch even more wind, and they have vertical windows.
Guess what, you can design a window to cope with such minor forces, you can even d
Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Informative)
You ASSume that because you've read the same or similar objections elsewhere, that I copy pasted my post? First, re-read my post, and point out where I mentioned wind, at all, please.
Maybe you would care to take a closer look at the Adams class destroyers I served aboard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Adams_class_destroyer [wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Charles_F_Adams_(DDG-2)_underway_c1973.jpg [wikipedia.org]
Look at the photo, top right side of the page. Just aft of mount 51 (the big gun) and below the flying bridge. solidly welded to the main weather deck, you can see what we call a "break". It's purpose is to break the waves coming over the bow, so that they don't sweep men off the weather decks further aft. That structure is a solid piece of aluminum. Quite solidly welded at the bottom, and all the way up the side. As I recall, that structure was 3/4 inch thick.
You mention windows withstanding wind stronger than a ship has to withstand at sea. Your ignorance is two fold. Winds at sea are every bit as strong as they are anywhere above land. But - the wind is not the big deal. IT'S THE WATER!!!
When tens of thousands of tons of water tower over top of you, then come slamming down on your ship, then you begin to understand the power of the sea.
Look at that break again. We had ours, on the port side, ripped off one night in the North Atlantic. It was late at night, we heard one tremendous "BOOM" when we were hit by an especially large wave, then a hellacious "SCREEEECH" as the metal tore away. Luckily, the superstructure was not breached, or we would have had flooded spaces to deal with quickly, or we would have died.
Now, go look at your skyscrapers again. Tell me how often the Empire State building has crashed into more tons of water than you can possibly measure.
Maybe you'd like to revisit some of the tsunami damage done in the Pacific ocean a couple of years ago. How many skyscrapers withstood a 40 foot wall of water crashing into it at 30 knots or more?
Minor forces, you say? You are a complete and utter fool, who had better never go to sea. A minor force is what you are working with, mentally.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Funny)
Look at the photo, top right side of the page. Just aft of mount 51 (the big gun) and below the flying bridge
Now I know how people feel when I tell them to look at the component next to the capacitor next to the socket.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:4, Insightful)
You mention windows withstanding wind stronger than a ship has to withstand at sea. Your ignorance is two fold. Winds at sea are every bit as strong as they are anywhere above land. But - the wind is not the big deal. IT'S THE WATER!!!
1) Windows can be built to withstand bomb blasts, but that kind of glass is extraordinarily expensive. Aluminum is orders of magnitude cheaper.
2) You went where your mission required, even if it meant sailing straight through a typhoon. Private yachts avoid large storms.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:4, Insightful)
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AFTER I posted, I actually looked at the link you posted - so I'm not done with your foolishness.
The Netanya is more seaworthy than Job's boat by at least an order of magnitude. Netanya has more windows than I am comfortable with, but they are a small fraction the size of Job's windows. Each pane appears to be solidly anchored, top, bottom, and both sides. As I say, I'm not completely comfortable with them, but they are sensibly sized, and sensibly located.
Next, look at the bow. A flared bow parts the wa
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Plumb bows are terrible in rough weather, they tend to pull down into swell. The increased water line does improve speed though.
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Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Funny)
What makes you think those windows aren't made of inch-thick transparent aluminium? People inside will have a whale of a time, even in a storm.
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And obviously if they get into any trouble, Scotty can beam them out of there, right?
Re:"Valued"? (Score:4, Funny)
you must be a mac user, they're always saying windows will be your downfall.
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Yup. And Windows was their downfall [wikipedia.org].
I laughed at the 'divide by zero' error that brought the mighty warship down, if not for the practical programming error, but because of my sig. I knew about this incident, but not the reason why. Now that's funny! Divide by zero... [slashdot.org]
yacht is incapable of weathering a real storm? (Score:2)
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I've sailed on 50 ft yachts with wind
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Now you wait just a goddamned minute...
Cheetos come in a box now?!
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That would be correct, if those were windows, and not Transparent Aluminium.
Jobs is that good.
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It's a yacht and Steve Jobs ferchrissakes. You don't think they'd be filming episodes of "the deadliest catch" on it do you?
That boat was never intended to leave the harbor on even just a windy day. When you have more money than God you can build $137M yachts and treat them like the big toys that they are.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:4)
That yacht is incapable of weathering a real storm.
The yacht is meant to be seen and to torture the aesthetic sense of mundane passers-by - a giant floating ego. Any time the ship is at sea, it's purpose is being diminished.
The only thing it could be used for at this point is a giant floating Steve Jobs museum - dock it at Monterey and charge $100 to walk through it. Make sure there's nothing inside but one photo of Steve. If people complain, just shake your head and say they're not ready to understand it.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Funny)
"Valued at 137.5 M$"?....something tells me it would fetch a lot less.
Yes, but it was machined from a single block of Aluminum.
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Funny - but, do you realize how frigging BIG a tooling facility would have to be, to machine a block of aluminum that size?
Here is one of the biggest presses in the world, and it's not big enough by a long shot:
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/alcoas_50000-ton_ready_to_go_b.html [cleveland.com]
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Stamping or forging isn't machining, for what it's worth. Machining implies cutting processes - so turning, drilling, and milling.
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First picture from the bottom on the left side: http://www.sdtb.de/Marine-Propellers.1945.0.html [www.sdtb.de]
On page ten (Warning: Large PDF): http://www.mmg-propeller.de/fileadmin/mmg/download/MMG_Image_BR_Eng.pdf [mmg-propeller.de]
"Even ship propellers of more than eleven metres in
diameter can thus be machined with an
accuracy of a few hundredths of a millimetre."
Ok, it's made for machining casted propellers, but the dimensions come close :)
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It sounds like you are jealous that you don't have a custom built yacht of your own.
Yes these are toys for the 0.1%.
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Re:"Valued"? (Score:5, Insightful)
You speak of storms, sir, yet you also speak of destroyers.. note that the military ships you speak of will be standing on station, or going places that are a bit out of the way for various reasons (training perhaps, to ensure that the crew can take the worst of the weather when they need to)
But perhaps you don't have a grasp of the leisure aspect especially of the superyacht set? Those boats, like warships, can also travel at 40kts and have access to satellite images, wave height data and very good weather forecasting. They don't need to be anywhere near bad weather and indeed they usually run away when a violent storm approaches. They don't need to demonstrate how tough they are, and the people who own them really just like to lounge around in calm conditions in the sun. They can cross oceans in the calmest conditions, dodging around the worst weather and they usually do. The focus of design of such a yacht is not to endure terrible weather while carrying goods halfway around the world, nor to blockade a port in all weathers. The focus is that the owner is noticed, and envied for their wealth. That this boat is ugly is neither here nor there, it was custom built for 137 MILLION dollars and everybody knows it. The point was that people would look and say Oooh, that belongs to Steve Jobs, I can only dream I could be rich like him.
Re:"Valued"? (Score:4, Informative)
You speak of storms, sir, yet you also speak of destroyers.. note that the military ships you speak of will be standing on station, or going places that are a bit out of the way for various reasons (training perhaps, to ensure that the crew can take the worst of the weather when they need to)
But perhaps you don't have a grasp of the leisure aspect especially of the superyacht set? Those boats, like warships, can also travel at 40kts and have access to satellite images, wave height data and very good weather forecasting. They don't need to be anywhere near bad weather and indeed they usually run away when a violent storm approaches. They don't need to demonstrate how tough they are, and the people who own them really just like to lounge around in calm conditions in the sun. They can cross oceans in the calmest conditions, dodging around the worst weather and they usually do. The focus of design of such a yacht is not to endure terrible weather while carrying goods halfway around the world, nor to blockade a port in all weathers. The focus is that the owner is noticed, and envied for their wealth. That this boat is ugly is neither here nor there, it was custom built for 137 MILLION dollars and everybody knows it. The point was that people would look and say Oooh, that belongs to Steve Jobs, I can only dream I could be rich like him.
Ships go to sea.
They will get hit by waves. Big ones.
Shit happens out at see, and out there you're literally hundreds if not thousands of miles away from help.
Think about this, bright boy: you're two days out (i.e., it's gonna take you to days to make ANY port) and a squall blows up that drops a waterspout over your toy and wipes out all your antennae.
OOoops.
What you going to do now, Einstein? Have spare antennae helicoptered out to you? Your too damn far out.
Oh, you'll just go 40 knots? First, that little pissant toy doesn't carry enough fuel to go 40 knots for any length of time. Two, with those ridiculous windows going 40 knots is downright dangerous - catch a 10 foot swell wrong and buh-bye windows and half your hull is now open to the sea. Three, that toy can't do 40 knots anyway:
Those boats, like warships, can also travel at 40kts
BWWWAAA HAAA HAAA
I was a Surface Warfare Officer (Nuclear) in the US Navy. You're FULL OF SHIT.
Cruise ships and container vessels are usually about the fastest things crossing the seas at 25 knots or a bit faster. Warships can go balls-to-the-wall and get up over 30, but that burns a LOT of fuel, and they usually just poke about at 15 knots or so. Aircraft carriers because of their length can get up over 35 knots, but they'd just outrun their escorts.
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You speak of storms, sir, yet you also speak of destroyers.. note that the military ships you speak of will be standing on station, or going places that are a bit out of the way for various reasons (training perhaps, to ensure that the crew can take the worst of the weather when they need to)
But perhaps you don't have a grasp of the leisure aspect especially of the superyacht set? .
Going offshore, which one must assume this yacht would do from time to time, means being prepared for the unexpected. That includes heavy weather and tall seas. And no, one can not "just keep an eye on the weather sat and run for cover". Indeed, running for harbor on the lee of a storm is a bad move unless one is certain one can be safely anchored/berthed ahead of the weather's arrival. Were it for cruising around San Francisco Bay, on nice days, that tub would fit right in. But as an ocean-crossing vessel?
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No, rich people are rich and they know it and don't have to or want to care what people think about their wealth. They just want to enjoy themselves. Now, people who want to be noticed and envied are the upper middle class on down to the poor. In fact, Most rich people don't even own boats because they are tremendous wastes of money, and rich people don't get or stay rich by wasting money. Most boats are owned by middle class people, quit
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Yes, more or less my point exactly...
what were they doing out there in the face of a storm? They thought the ship would be safer at sea but they sure as hell weren't capable of running away from the storm track at 40kts. Even at 25kts, they could have been in florida the day before, or they could have gone the other way and been halfway to europe.
They were on a scheduled crossing with beancounters in control (not in command) and the captain was all 'full steam ahead' when icebergs had been repo
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Is every person who rows across a calm bay on a summer day a fool, because they didn't have a survival suit and an EPIRB on board? Every sailing boat does not need to be equipped for Cape Horn, when they are only going to Catalina Island for the weekend..
Pure prevarication. We're talking about oceangoing and you want to talk about people tooling around a bathtub. 40kts sounds like a lot until you compare it to the speed at which a storm can move.
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ORLY? Storm systems don't generally move that fast. The wind speed during a hurricane vastly exceeds that (Sandy was only a cat 2, with max sustained wind speeds of 110mph according to wikipedia, less than that when it hit the USA) but the storm itself does not move very fast, it will often dawdle around and my recollection is that it would be a pretty fast system to be doing over 30kts.. Hence my assertion that a fast ship
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blah blah blah RADAR blah blah blah RADAR blah blah blah
The USS Spruance once ran into Andros Island. She hit so hard she broke off her main mast.
In the middle of the day. They had, get this, RADAR. They even had EYEBALLS.
The best crews. The best training. No pressure to be somewhere quickly. Yet shit still JUST HAPPENS.
You are clueless. You really are FUCKING CLUELESS.
The Bounty could go 25 knots? No it fucking couldn't. Maybe 16 or 17. With a tailwind. In good seas. In any swells at all that thing would be lucky to do 12 knots.
Ever been on a 1,000-
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Scrap it? I say sail it out during a storm via remote control and see if it survives. It would make a great episode of Mythbusters.
Strange (Score:4, Insightful)
Someone trusted Steve Jobs? Obviously they didn't know him that well.
token joke post (Score:2)
Trying to care (Score:2)
Hehe, trust Steve Jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Steve Jobs was a nasty mean spirited jerk who always cheated everyone whenever he could. Even close friends. In fact, he has no close friends, just victims who like battered wives thought that THIS time he would change. It is quite sad really that the guy himself that he could never get over his past. Shows you that money doesn't really make people happy.
You got to wonder what made him this way, so obsessed about money and power that he would screw supposed friends over and not even see it as wrong. And continue to do that when any new money would just be a number on a bank account. Compared to Jobs, people like Gates, Branson and Buffet seem a lot happier. Not nicer perhaps in their past but at least with age they learned not to be total assholes all the time. It is not like Jobs did not do any charity but more people will remember him as a prick then as a benefactor. Despite the fact that those friends he did screw over ultimately didn't exactly walk away empty handed.
My epitaph will probably read something like "who?" but it is better then "well, he did give us the iPod but he was such a dick". It not even as if he will be remembered as all that evil. It is just the paranoid always looking out for number 1 that people finally were able to vent after he died.
The guy who made an American company actually produce cool gadgets is more remembered for even in death trying to cheat "friends" and all that over a boat whose ugliness shows that whatever Steve Jobs had for talent, an eye for design was not one of them.
And now for the final insult: This post written on a Samsung Android Phone.
Cry havoc and release the Apple fans!
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Edison!
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By some accounts, Edison was semi-mellow, but investors pressured him to be ruthless after alternating current started hurting their business.
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Oddly enough Wozniak seems to be the polar opposite.
And Wozniak will be rememberd as a nice guy (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice guy, clever and rich... a bit dim perhaps in choosing his friends or at least in doing business with friends (although staying friends even if friends are not perfect is what good guys do). But nice, clever and rich foremost. Neither Jobs or Wozniak ever needed to worry about where their next meal would come from for a long time. So... who would you want to be? The super rich billionaire Jobs or the quite comfortable millionaire Wozniak?
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My epitaph will probably read something like "who?" but it is better then "well, he did give us the iPod but he was such a dick".
Someday his entire listing in the history books will read something like, "Worked briefly with the great Steve Wozniak. See: Wozniak, Steve."
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*cough*
Polygamy has existed in the mideast since prehistory. Want to try again, with that time scale bullshit?
I don't really agree with GP's post, but it's something that should make a thinking person scratch his head and actually think, before dismissing it as nonsense.
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Nonsense. We have bred various breeds of dogs, horses, cats, swine, chickens, and other animals for our own purposes, within the span of recorded history. We have seen changes in non-domesticated animals, as well. If we can make evolutionary changes in those animals, then we can experience evolutionary changes ourselves within the span of recorded history.
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Not to mention the Russian Arctic Fox program that turned the wild form into happy puppy-dogs in just 10 generations, simply by selecting for handleablility. Major change in behaviour (and appearance) in just a few generations. A hundred generations is plenty of time for culture to affect us.
(Belyaev did the opposite too. Selected a group for the least handleable. Now them's some fun doggies.)
Generation time lenght (Score:2)
We have bred various breeds of dogs, horses, cats, swine, chickens, and other animals for our own purposes, within the span of recorded history. {...} If we can make evolutionary changes in those animals, then we can experience evolutionary changes ourselves within the span of recorded history.
The problem with this is the time that 1 generation takes.
- For bacteria, you can observe a lot interesting stuff happening, because a single generation has a time span between couple of dozens of minute and a hour. On a single day you can get near to 100 generations. Spend just 1 week observing them (a little bit less than a thousand generations), and you can see the effect of lots of generation reproducing and adapting and evolving. (That why bacteria are so problematic regarding antibiotic resistance: th
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Life expectancies don't matter (aside from being a upper limit), breeding age matters, Horses can breed when they are less than 2 years old (as little as 6 months old for some males) - humans take just a tad longer.
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Wrong, it's polygamy that's natural, and monogamy that appeared only in early stages of the agricultural revolution because agriculture is far more labour intensive than hunting-gathering. Just take a look at other primates and almost all mammals -- or pretty much, anything but some birds.
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Of course the trick there is that the offspring of ALL those species are half way or more to maturity in 12 months. The Majority of those species are WALKING in days.
a human 12 month old is barely mobile(in relative comparison at least) Human's are one of the slowest species to mature. Human Kids take over a year to do something just as simple.
Monogamy gives us time to actually raise the kids. As it takes multiple humans to raise one child.
Wake up to Ubik and be wild! (Score:3, Funny)
We wanted to give you a shave like no other you ever had. We said, It's about time a man's face got a little loving. We said, With Ubik's self-winding Swiss chromium never-ending blade, the days of scrape-scrape are over. So try Ubik. And be loved. Warning: use only as directed. And with caution.
----------------------
AMAZING OPPORTUNITY FOR ADVANCEMENT
TO ALL WHO CAN QUALIFY!
Mr. Glen Runciter of the Beloved Brethren Moratorium of Zürich, Switzerland, doubled his income within a week of receiving our free shoe kit with detailed information as to how you also can sell our authentic simulated-leather loafers to friends, relatives, business associates.
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Great reference!!
Wait, does this mean Jobs is alive -- and we're all dead...??!
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That was my first thought. Glad I don't own a Zune.
That is the ugliest (Score:2, Funny)
That is the ugliest piece of shit I have ever seen. Its not a boat, its an accident at the aluminum smelter. Not to worry though: you can put it out of its misery by melting it down and turning it into about 500 million Android phones (you could sell the lot for the cost of about 20 iPhones(tm)), and Android would go from 75% market share to 95% market share. Just think about how many iPhones you would have to sell to buy one of these: about 20 iPad owners collectively could have bought it though.
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Obligatory joke post (Score:5, Funny)
It now sits dormant in the Port of Amsterdam
And here I thought it would require a proprietary port.
That's one ugly yacht (Score:4, Insightful)
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Apple is just lucky that Steve Jobs never tried to peddle iBoats. Maybe somebody already had the patent on rounded boat corners?
The Legacy Lives On! (Score:5, Funny)
paid only 6 million of the 9-million
Clearly, they were holding it wrong.
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I heard that... (Score:2)
I heard that Memphis Methodist University Hospital wants their liver back too.
The thing I love (Score:2)
about pages like this, is that the jokes are all so ORIGINAL!
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I am stunned! (Score:2)
the other side (Score:2)
Nice one-side post, err, I mean press release. According to the other side, the agreement was for a 6% commission, with the initial budget for construction at $150 million, but actual construction cost turned out to be $105 million.
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WTF is Starck doing taking a 6% commission? Starchitects take 15%-20%. Perhaps Starck was taking 20% of the interiors budget, with the shipwrights taking 10%-15% on the hull/mechanicals design.
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old new...dispute is already resolved (Score:2)
old news...dispute is already resolved: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/12/24/beslaglegging-jacht-steve-jobs-opgeheven/ [www.nrc.nl]
slashdot a bit late to the show... (Score:2)
Immoral to The Very End (Score:3)
In Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the late Apple CEO is quoted as saying that, "I know that it's possible I will die and leave Laurene with a half-built boat, but I have to keep going on. If I don't, it's an admission that I'm about to die."
Translation: I know I'll never pay this guy for all his work, as I'm about to die. If I can't royally screw someone over one last time, I just won't be able to live with myself.
I don't know which is sadder: that Steve Jobs was this shallow, hollow person who valued money more than people, or that it says volumes about our country that so many people worshipped him.
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(valued at 137.5 million dollars)
Yeah, this bit of info could be of relevance to nerds. Infringement of 3 software patents has been adjudicated by a jury for over a billion dollars. So a single software patent can fetch you more than enough money to build yourself a complete custom made yacht. From one infringing company, that too.
Guess that could be enough motivation for nerds to obtain software patents.
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(valued at 137.5 million dollars)
Yeah, this bit of info could be of relevance to nerds. Infringement of 3 software patents has been adjudicated by a jury for over a billion dollars. So a single software patent can fetch you more than enough money to build yourself a complete custom made yacht. From one infringing company, that too.
Guess that could be enough motivation for nerds to obtain software patents.
Its inner hull is made of titanium and it can dive to 3000 feet.
Re:News for nerds? Stuff that matters? (Score:5, Funny)
Its inner hull is made of titanium and it can dive to 3000 feet.
Any ship can dive to 3000 feet.
It's not drowning everyone and coming back to the surface that's the hard part...
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Its inner hull is made of titanium and it can dive to 3000 feet.
Any ship can dive to 3000 feet.
It's not drowning everyone and coming back to the surface that's the hard part...
Exactly.
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Only where they can't get out of it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710 [bbc.co.uk]
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Except that the thing is controlled by Macs with large screens, how is this piece of news relevant on Slashdot?
Slashdot loves Macs.
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So, is there software that runs on Macs for maritime navigation? I mean, sure there is probably some toy stuff that you use on your sailboat putting around the bay, but is there actually some sort of luxury yacht-worthy control system software for Macs? Somehow I always figured that stuff was too important to trust to toy OSes like MacOS and Windows.
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A long metallic box with lots of windows.
It looks like shit today, but in a hundreds years they'll have a renewed and fresh perspective, step back, and gaze upon it as a thorough and genuine work of.....crap, still.
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I'm not real sure about the Maltese Falcon's seaworthiness - but I'd be willing to sail on it, to see what I think of it. Job's yacht? I might risk my ex-wife's life aboard that thing, but you wouldn't see me stepping aboard, for any reason.
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Dead people earn a lot of money: http://www.forbes.com/2006/10/23/tech-media_06deadcelebs_cx_pk_top-earning-dead-celebrities_land.html [forbes.com]
It's difficult to put them in jail, though, for evading taxes. Or at least for the cellmate, who has to bunk with a stinking corpse.
If they put that dingy up for auction, some rich Arab or Russian would pay twice the price for it.
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brb, raising some zombies
That's not a nice thing to call your lawyers.
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Actually that is a rather nice thing to call lawyers, all things considered.