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Apple Claims New Infringement After Being Ordered To Tell Samsung HTC Secrets 287

Posted by samzenpus
from the circle-of-litigation dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Ordered to tell Samsung all of the company's HTC secrets, Apple throws a tantrum and adds a bunch of new products to the never-ending list of products Samsung has infringed on. Apple's tantrum stems from a ruling on Thursday that could have a large effect on the Apple lawsuit. The Apple lawsuit, which was filed in February, alleges that Samsung violated Apple patents related to user interface, technology and style. The first decision was found in favor of Apple to the tune of $1 billion, but Samsung is trying to get that ruling thrown out. But as the Apple lawsuit has gone on, the Apple lawsuit has gotten fiercer, and because of a ruling on Thursday, Apple throws a tantrum and is trying to add even more products into the lawsuit."
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Apple Claims New Infringement After Being Ordered To Tell Samsung HTC Secrets

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  • by Lews Therin Telamon (229342) on Monday November 26, 2012 @01:55PM (#42095651)

    I completely agree. Apple certainly is not adding more devices because Samsung just did the same. That could never be the cause, it has to be they are throwing a fit.

  • Tantrum? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by whisper_jeff (680366) on Monday November 26, 2012 @01:59PM (#42095689)

    Biased summary much?

    Any value Slashdot once had as a source for tech news is entirely gone now. Sensationalistic crap for the win.

    Meh.

  • by Sponge Bath (413667) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:00PM (#42095695)

    FTA: "So, most likely in response to that judge's ruling..."

    No evidence, no reasoning, just one persons unsubstantiated opinion that these two items are connected. Combine that will biased language like "tantrum" and you get a content free piece of click bait. Congratulations.

  • by Trepidity (597) <delirium-slashdo ... g ['ish' in gap]> on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:00PM (#42095705)

    What is actually happening can probably be better summarized something like this: highly paid legal teams in huge patent lawsuit continue to jockey for position with miscellaneous legal moves.

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by ugen (93902) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:07PM (#42095795)

    Mod parent up.

    What the hell? Is /. finally gone on Samsung payroll here? Srsly guys, try to at least *pretend* to report news. Also "anonymous" submitter? Is is email pr@samsung.com by any chance?

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:15PM (#42095875)

    Steve Jobs was well known for throwing tantrums. I fail to see how this is not a suitable word. He may be gone, but his legal team is still carrying on his maniacal vendetta against Android.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:15PM (#42095881)

    Well, if Apple thinks their frivolous lawsuits will win them new customers or get old customers back, they'll be in for a surprise in 5-10 years from now.

  • by shmlco (594907) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:17PM (#42095901) Homepage

    From 3 days ago, "Now Samsung has responded in kind, adding the iPad mini, 4th generation iPad and 5th generation iPod touch to the mix."

    "Samsung’s additions shouldn’t come as a surprise; when a judge ruled that Apple was indeed allowed to add Android 4.2 Jelly Bean as it pertains to the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, as well as the Galaxy Note 10.1 and Galaxy S III to the proceedings, he specifically warned that in granting that alteration, Apple should be prepared for return amendments from Samsung. Specifically, he said that the iPad mini and latest iPad were likely additions."

    "Samsung had previously moved to have the iPhone 5 added to the filing, and that motion was successful."

    And back. And forth. And back again.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:24PM (#42095959)

    The slashdot of today is a pale comparison of the slashdot of 3-5 years ago.
    Back then it was worth reading daily, there were well thought out, reasoned, and articulated articles.
    Now its become a place I come to once a week, and seeing articles like this piece of crap makes me wonder if that is too often.

    Bye slashdot, I will remember your good days fondly and are deeply saddened at what you have become.
    I guess you can take solace in knowing digg beat you there.

  • by Missing.Matter (1845576) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:28PM (#42096001)
    Maybe Slashdot should stop accepting submission from anonymous readers, so at least if submitters troll in the summary we at least know who they are. Or perhaps, I don't know, the editors could actually edit the submissions so they're not blatantly trolling.
  • by PRMan (959735) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:32PM (#42096049)
    But if Apple can license their patents to HTC, Samsung can ask the courts for a license at the same amount. It is possible that the court will grant that, as Apple clearly thought it was fair for a very similar competitor.
  • by tlhIngan (30335) <slashdot AT worf DOT net> on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:45PM (#42096201)

    But if Apple can license their patents to HTC, Samsung can ask the courts for a license at the same amount. It is possible that the court will grant that, as Apple clearly thought it was fair for a very similar competitor.

    Only if said patents are FRAND. At which point they MUST. But for non-FRAND patents, they don't have to.

    If they aren't, then it's perfectly fine for Apple to not license to Samsung at all - because the "ND" part doesn't apply. Hell, the "F" part doesn't have to apply as well.

    And Samsung has stated clearly they are NOT willing to form any sort of agreement.

    Heck, Microsoft has licensed patents with Apple (cross-licensed). Apple doesn't have to charge HTC the same rates that Microsoft is paying.

    For the FRAND patents, Microsoft and Apple are arguing the rates specified by Samsung and Motorola are unfair. Unfortunately, the big issue there is no one really said what fair was as a lot of the rates include cross-licensing. And Samsung wants injunctions because Apple's violating their FRAND patents, while Samsung's arguing that since Apple licensed patents to HTC, Apple cannot force an injunction on Samsung products (the problem being that Samsung is, by FRAND forced to license, so they can't argue that they deserve an injunction for licensable patents while Apple doesn't for other potentially licensable patents).

    Of course, the business case may be that it's very helpful to license it because if HTC is paying, and Samsung is paying, so should LG, Motorola/Google, ZTE and everyone else (who may include Amazon and B&N).

  • by blind biker (1066130) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:45PM (#42096203) Journal

    "Samsungâ(TM)s additions shouldnâ(TM)t come as a surprise; when a judge ruled that Apple was indeed allowed to add Android 4.2 Jelly Bean as it pertains to the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, as well as the Galaxy Note 10.1 and Galaxy S III to the proceedings, he specifically warned that in granting that alteration, Apple should be prepared for return amendments from Samsung. Specifically, he said that the iPad mini and latest iPad were likely additions."

    I see what Apple is trying to do, here: they're concentrating their fire onto Samsung because it's the most successful Android company. Apple thinks that by "teaching these guys a lesson" they'll instill fear in all the rest of the Android companies, and steer them to crappier alternatives (like Windows Phone, Windows RT) that could never compete with iDevices. Like the biggest bully beating up the guy that could pose the biggest threat to his hegemony. But Apple is making a mistake, I think, for two reasons:
    - The guy Apple decided to bully is proving to be a tough nut to crack, and that might, instead of discouraging, actually encourage the other vendors. If for no other reason, then because Apple is being distracted by this huge war they got themselves into.
    - There are Android companies that won't stop making Android devices, regardless of what Apple does to Samsung. Win or lose, these companies will continue making Android devices, and enjoy their small profits. I am talking about all those nameless Chinese companies that are more than happy to make cheap Android tablets or phones for the masses. Yes, Apple probably doesn't much care about those, since they aren't even catering to the same market as the iDevices are, but moreover, these are nimble companies working in the gray areas that are mostly out of bounds to Apple's lawyers. But their combined effect may very well make Android the dominant player.
    - Google has enough muscle to help one Android company at a time, releasing Nexus-branded Android tablets and phones. Google takes a financial hit on each of these, but it's small enough compared to the profits Google makes. This is another source of Android devices that Apple cannot easily quench. And something tells me that Google's corporate policy is one to not give in to bullies, so there might be a bit of a personal thing going on there, especially if Apple insists being dicks.

    So, I personally think that Apple needs to stop doing what they're doing.

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mk1004 (2488060) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:47PM (#42096219)
    groklaw.net is a much better source of information about the Samsung/Apple legal mess. Slashdot referencing a Yahoo news article that's obviously done by someone who's clueless doesn't do the /. community any favors.
  • by gus goose (306978) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:49PM (#42096255) Journal

    Wouldn't it help Apple...? No.

    Apple is trying to push for an injunction barring Samsung from selling its products at all. I.e. kill Samsung sales totally. Apple has claimed that the value of it's patents is so great, or impossible to calculate, and the only possible remedy for Samsung's infringement is to stop sales entirely. Apple has claimed that it is not possible for Samsung to pay license fees for the patents.

    But now, it would appear that HTC *has* licensed (at least some of) the patents, so Samsung is claiming that it *is* possible to put a value to the patents, and thus a full injunction is not necessary, because a financial solution can be found.

    That is why it sucks for Apple... because, if the court agrees with Samsung, Apple a) won't be able to stop samsung sales b) will be shown to be lying about licensing

    gus

  • by whoever57 (658626) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:51PM (#42096273) Journal

    Wouldn't the HTC settlement help Apple's case?

    No, because Apple want to completely ban the Samsung devices and claims that money can't make up for the harm that Samsung's devices are causing. However, if Apple licensed their patents to HTC, then clearly money can make up for the harm and thus, Apple is only entitled to money damages, not a complete ban (if Samsung's devices are found to be infringing).

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ktappe (747125) on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:56PM (#42096335)

    No, just accurate.

    "Apple throws a tantrum" is "accurate"? Nobody had headlines like "Samsung loses $1billion case, throws a tantrum and demands HTC documents." This is biased reporting, pure and simple.

  • by Enderandrew (866215) <enderandrew&gmail,com> on Monday November 26, 2012 @02:56PM (#42096341) Homepage Journal

    It could also affect dollar amounts. This is the same Apple who wants to offer $1 per device total for several major feature parents from Motorola, but thinks minor design patents means Samsung should pay $30-$40 per device to Apple. Divulging the deal with HTC will likely show that Apple never negotiated in good faith with Samsung and that damages should be much lower, or perhaps change the verdict in an appeal.

  • by Dishwasha (125561) on Monday November 26, 2012 @03:01PM (#42096395)

    I am sorry you are so ill-informed. The patent system is not broken. It is purposefully confusing and complex to help drive innovation in fast paced industries like the smartphone sector. Don't believe me? Just ask hundreds of envious countries and tens of millions of employed American workers [slashdot.org].

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sl3xd (111641) on Monday November 26, 2012 @03:12PM (#42096545) Journal

    I care far less about whether the summary is biased than I care that the summary is horrible.

    Apple throws a tantrum and adds a bunch of new products to the never-ending list of products Samsung has infringed on... because of a ruling on Thursday, Apple throws a tantrum and is trying to add even more products into the lawsuit

    Here's a tip: Repeating bad grammar doesn't improve it; repeating bad grammar in what should be a summary is both embarrassing and redundant.

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bob9113 (14996) on Monday November 26, 2012 @03:21PM (#42096655) Homepage

    Biased summary much?

    Any value Slashdot once had as a source for tech news is entirely gone now.

    You're doing it wrong. The value of Slashdot is not in the flawed and often biased summaries, it is in the discussions. And it is not in the majority of discussion comments that you find fault with, it is in the rare gems that make you think. You have to work for it. Facile criticism is moderately useful in chastening fan-bois and -grrls, but you could be getting more, and giving more, if you tried.

    The real magic of Slashdot is on the other side of the pen. When you start doing some real analysis and putting your rich and well-formed thoughts out there, that's when it really starts to shine. It's tough; you will have to suffer shallow potshots from armchair critics, but you will get a thousand times more upside from those few people who constructively explore a subtle flaw in your perception. Those people give you the opportunity to improve your world view. What you gain by putting a more substantive post out there, facing the slings and arrows, and evolving your hypotheses to subsume an ever more accuate picture of reality is truly extraordinary.

    I've looked through your posts. Once you get past the daggers you have a lot to add. You have more to give than cheap shots at easy targets.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26, 2012 @04:00PM (#42097087)

    The patents are not FRAND. They are not required to be non-discriminatory. Apple asserts that Samsung willingly and methodically violated its patents across its product line, producing cheap knockoffs and doing everything they could to ride on Apple's coattails - in other words, the assertion is that they have infringed far more seriously than HTC has.

    The difference? Analogy time, and it even involves a car, in best /. tradition!

    You know a guy who just ran over your dog in a fit of rage, and a best bud who might have stepped on your dog's tail once, but totally by accident, and he apologized for it. You let your best bud borrow your car one day to run some errands. The next day, the guy who ran down your dog comes along and takes your car without asking to "run some errands, too." When you call the police to have him arrested for stealing your car, he argues that "My use of your car was totally legal, you loaned it to that other guy yesterday, you have to loan it to me today!"

    There's NOTHING requiring them to license to Samsung if they licensed to HTC (or under the same terms), unless these patents are FRAND patents, which everything we've seen so far they seem not to be.

  • Re:Tantrum? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fredprado (2569351) on Monday November 26, 2012 @05:29PM (#42098329)
    Because demanding data that shows Apple has lied is a very reasonable act and not doing it would be stupid. On the other hand adding new devices that are specifically designed to avoid infringing anything like the GSIII to the "infringement" list as a (pitiful) attempt of retaliation shows only childish desperation, which relates very well to tantrums.
  • Good catch. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Uberbah (647458) on Monday November 26, 2012 @05:35PM (#42098431)

    The Fandroid hypocrisy gets more than a little deep here at times. Apple are the new evil Microsoft when they swing their dicks around on patents, but it's just fine and dandy when it's Google or Samsung doing the same damn thing.

    And before one of them whines that Google is different because they bought hardware and software patents from Motorola, as if you guys wouldn't be even more poutraged if Apple bought Nokia for their hardware patents and returned fire.

  • by aaarrrgggh (9205) on Tuesday November 27, 2012 @12:18AM (#42102201)

    The HTC agreement likely has a "do not clone" clause like Nokia's. Samsung has "cloned" Apple designs, which makes the situation different.

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