Apple Forcing IT Shops To 'Adapt Or Die' 715
alphadogg writes "Many IT departments are struggling with Apple's 'take it or leave it' attitude, based on discussions last week at MacIT, which is Macworld|iWorld's companion conference for IT professionals. Much of the questioning following technical presentations wasn't about Apple technology or products. It was about the complexities and confusions of trying to sort out for the enterprise Apple's practices. Those practices include the use of Apple IDs and iTunes accounts, which are designed for individual Mac or iPad or iPhone users, and programs like Apple's Volume Purchase Program, which, according to Apple 'makes it simple to find, buy, and distribute the apps your business needs' and to buy custom, third-party B2B apps."
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
He actually made computing cool.
First, who gives a shit? Second, he didn't make computing cool - he used cool to sell consumer electronics. That's not 'computing' any more than watching TV is 'computing'.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:1, Insightful)
You are obviously of superior intellect to the OP.
what does (Score:5, Insightful)
an iTunes account have to do with the business workplace and enterprise computing - no iTunes on company computers - problem solved!
Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (Score:3, Insightful)
Arrogance beyond belief (Score:5, Insightful)
So you think because a few million people run Apps that the entire corporate infrastructure, the existing mainframe, unix, windows, and linux systems, and EVERYTHING ELSE is going to change to make ROOM for Apple in the enterprise?
Sir, you SERIOUSLY underestimate your importance to North American enterprises. Even Microsoft isn't that ignorant of their REAL place in the IT industry.
Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot something, eventually IT shops have to do what their users want...
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
I have tried apple products, they suck. The reason why linux isn't as pretty and easy to use as os x is because there are not PAID linux devs, not like you have for windows or os x, and there is no unified force behind it. linux is a bunch of neck beards who all have their own idea about how the OS should be. That is why there is a million and one distros. Apple isn't the answer though, they just go the opposite way and tell you what you need and how you need it. They over price it all, and pretend they invented everything, apple sucks.
Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is not marketing towards the enterprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple markets their devices to consumers first, and they provide enough support for businesses so their stuff is accepted. This is why Apple paid Microsoft and licensed the ActiveSync protocol, so their devices would get past the corporate blood/brain barrier (which before that, only Blackberries and Windows Mobile devices could cross.)
It is just not in Apple's model to do that much for the enterprise. The XServe did not sell well so it got pulled. Same with Apple's SAN hardware. Even the old Mac Pro doesn't seem to be selling well, and has not gotten a refresh in a long time.
Apple knows that it makes its bread and butter selling to the dedicated fans who have been camping out for days at their stores for the latest iGadget. They know that trying to pitch to the enterprise will have a "meh" response at best.
Another example of this is how Apple handles product releases. As an IT person, I can sign a NDA in blood, and get a roadmap from IBM or Oracle about what they plan to do for future products, when to make sure funds are available for model refreshes, and timing budget constraints. Apple doesn't offer this. There is no way to time when to have funds ready for a product refresh when it comes to Macs or iDevices.
[1]: Ideally, Apple would make a Mac Pro case that could work as a tower, but also fit horizontally into a rack with just a simple drawer style mounting kit (similar to the venerable Ultra 450s.)
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice troll.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Apple's initial failure (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Users are the ones forcing the draconian policies of IT shops to change. iPhone, then iPads are being made "exceptions" to established policies because IT shops can't say no to the huge onslaught of demand. People have suffered under corporate IT policies that make desktops/laptops agonizing tools to use and inhibit productivity.
Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (Score:3, Insightful)
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Spoken like someone who has never worked in tech support.
IT has to enable the company to make money, not pander to the user. We report to our boss, not yours, this includes every time a user refuses to do something we tell them to do.
If you dont understand you work for the companies interest, not the users interest you will get off the support line... and on to the unemployment line.
Seriously, the quickest way to advance in IT is to show an understanding of how a business (more specifically, your business) operates, the quickest way to fail in an IT career is to do everything the user wants.
IT is there to make sure you can work, not to hold the users hand and make them feel better.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:1, Insightful)
He jumped the queue for a liver then wasted it.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, try one of Apple's products. It's not hard to see why they're so popular.
Of course you can see why they're popular, but it's not price or ignorance that keeps people from owning them, it's that it's never a one-size-fits-all solution.
And for Linux devs - try to make your stuff more like Apple's products.
Why? If you want stuff that's like Apple's products buy Apple's products.
It's like Occupy IT (Score:5, Insightful)
Until better management tools are made to "manage" the apple devices / environment, they will still be a secondary (or greater) choice for enterprise environments.
While I agree that Apple is very much sitting on its hands here, there is no way to ignore iDevices. It's almost like an "Occupy IT" movement. And the users are relishing our squirming and cursing. And while I'm an sysadmin myself, I'd almost say we deserve it to be on the receiving end this time. It's a comically reversed situation to how it usually works: Users are requiring simple things, you know they aren't that simple and you can't do anything really but learn and work and adapt and curse. Wow, that *hurts*. *They* are the ones who traditionally had to swallow what we rained down on them.
Now *they* are smug and wave their iPads ("it just works") and we have to find a way to make them work and to manage them. How unfair is this? Now *we* are clicking through iTunes for *them*! What goes around comes around, really.
Apple in enterprise is hard (Score:2, Insightful)
I am an IT admin in a library. Getting Apple setup with some resemblance of control is a pain. Its great at home but once you have to try to manage say 10 of them it sucks. With windows i can control everything with group policy.
Apple is trying with their parental controls and preferences BUT they are not even remotely there yet.
Like others have stated if the app you need is on the app store you are in trouble. It takes you begging and pleading for a credit card number from accounting or the business office. Most of my configuration on a mac involves me going to each mac and changing the configurations. Apples own preferences for time off are wierd. sun -thurs night and fri -sat. They make it so difficult to manage macs in a network.
Dont tell me well script. I dont have time to spend time writing scripts for something that microsoft has a gui for.
Apple needs a TON of work on the managing side of OSX.
PS We do not have the money to buy 3rd party solutions for 10 machines.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
'more accessible' is just a new speak term for "hide messy reality from user". this is not more accessible, it's LESS. it builds up a fantasy of expectations not inline with reality that blow up later when the user tries to interface with something/someone outside the apple garden. Of course, he blames that item/person for not playing by the rules he was sold when he bought is iThingy, but reality is NOT the apple garden. apple's assumption that correctly designed devices don't require user-configurability doesn't take into account the unrealistic input/expectations it breeds in its users. even the best engineered and objectively marketed equipment just breaks sometimes and an accessible way to service/fix the issue is needed. such garden mentalities can be ok for short term/extremely limited use items that have low expectations associated with them, but things like phones and computers are trending AWAY from such status.
the fallacy of equating an assumed incomprehensible complexity with unneeded complexity is what's killing growth in technology, especially in the consumer space. By all means, offer an easy to use interface for simple functions, but oversimplifying complex operations does nothing for the user when the designer's assumptions about said complexities fail the user. not only is the user left without what he needs, but he has no way of learning how to get it, and anyone he might ask for help is denied access to what they need. this is why apple sells the attitude along with the product.. it pushes the 'blame/pressure' from apple/its users onto everyone else to get into compliance..ie buy an apple. this is good for apple obviously, but bad for technology/society as a whole.
Re:what does (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:what does (Score:5, Insightful)
I fully agree with you. Itunes is an abomination.
Apple makes good hardware.
But iTunes is an utter embarrassment to the company. The programming staff should all be fired. I've never seen such an ill behaved piece of software. They make Adobe look like wizards.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
I have an iPad 2. I'd swap it for an Android tablet tomorrow if I could. I'm sick of Apple telling me how I can (and can't) use the product that I bought.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple -- they say the same things themselves. "We tell users what they want" sound familiar?
Yup. Users want a mouse. And guess what, they do. Users want windowed operating systems. And guess what, they do. Users want a controlled market place with safe apps. And guess what, they do. The few people here who claim they prefer a market place with porn and viruses aren't "users" in the sense of the general market. The general market is quite happy with Apple. Apple isn't forcing things down people's throats so much as trying to guess what the inarticulate and confused user really wants, then delivering that and trying to convince the user that they asked for red but got blue, and they really wanted the blue all the time and were confused previously. In most cases, they are right. That's like being mad at a mind reader for being right...
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
It does not take great genius to detect an obvious shill.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
Been there. Did that. Have the burnt out remains to prove it.
Apple is great at marketing. Apple is great at doing less and calling it more.
However, some people really need to do more. It's fine if Apple plays the role of "corporate IT for consumers". Corporations and power users don't really need that though.
Apple products are somewhat ok if you don't test the boundaries or use them too creatively. Otherwise all bets are off. This appears to be a manifestation of that very problem.
Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the point is that the King User (i.e. CTO), if they become an Apple user, will dictate that the IT shop *will* support Apple products.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
So what you're saying is that you have experience administering Windows boxes, but not much for other OSes? Excuse me if I can't take your experience as neutral, fact based review of Apple products (or Linux for that matter) if you were unable to find the FileVault encryption options in the Security Preference pane. In = 10.6, that's user home folder encryption, in 10.7+, it's one-click full disk encryption. And the Registry being less arcane than plist files...? And apparently you haven't looked into Automator at all...?
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:2, Insightful)
He may be stellar with Unix and the command line.
However, this is not Unix we're talking about here.
This is a proprietary OS built on top of Unix. Any assumptions you might be able to make about automating Solaris or Linux go straight out the Window.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:4, Insightful)
All of that stuff is included in a modern Linux distro by default. I'm on Fedora and for the Cisco VPN client, all you need is to "yum install vpnc".
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
No thank you, I'll stick with my nice Android phone with things like that built in standard.
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno, how many people wanted voice commands on their phone before the iphone 4s came out?
I think Apple tells people what they want quite successfully.
Its not that these people secretly wanted it but didn't know it - more like they didn't want it until they saw it, and then they wanted it.
Its clever, and it seems to work very well for Apple.
Apple's philosophy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Leave It (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd like to know what you think the better alternative is. Apple currently ships the best Activesync compatible phone on the market, better than even Windows Phone 7. Android has barely started to ship something reasonable in ICS.
So if Apple products don't work well, what kind of smart phones are you going to be deploying?
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why Apple is good (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, the whole job of software is to "hide messy reality from the user", otherwise the user would still be doing everything by hand. We have a fantastic device that can do many millions of things faster than a human can do one. Don't get me wrong, Apple certainly errs on the side of over simplification and preventing power users from configuring what they want. But building in systems that permit users to avoid worrying about external(to them) complexities is nearly the whole point of what we do.
I also disagree with your statement that the "fallacy of equating an assumed incomprehensible complexity with uneeded complexity is what's killing growth in technology". On the other hand, I totally agree with your subsequent statements surrounding what Developers *should do*, however I see no evidence of the drain on growth in the market.
If there is a market (money) need for the power user UI, the market will eventually produce it barring severe ongoing shortage of qualified engineers. When there is a shortage of workers, they will pick to work on either the most exciting, or the most profitable targets.
Power-User UI is what you expect from internal tools. The software industry's infancy was basically *internal tools* packaged and dumped into the market. The fact that power-user UIs are disappearing (are they? -- at least in relative concentration vs simpleton UI) is a symptom of the maturation of the software industry, for maximizing breadth of reach. The unnecessary sharp edges of Power tools are what gets polished and removed as various products improve.
Physical analogy: Circular saws usually have a finger guard around the blade these days. The finger guard does sometimes get in the way of work. Is this a sign that the tool has been dumbed down? Or that the design was polished for market appeal? Internal tools get the job done at the expense of such polish. Published tools in a mature industry have exactly the sharp edges they need for the people they are selling to.
Re:I actually own some apple hardware. (Score:2, Insightful)
If you can't find functional equivalent PC hardware on a laptop or desktop for at least 30% less, you are not trying to find it. You and others can claim they cost the same but many others have no problem finding it much cheaper. I can go to Dell's website and pick the first thing they show and load it up and it will cost a lot, Those are placed on the front page for a reason. For people that don't browse around for 5 minutes and find something cheaper. That is the same reason that you local grocery store probably has milk way in the back corner of the store and expensive drinks and snacks in the register isle. Also the same reason stores like 7-Eleven spend tons of money on research for the layout of their stores, it's far from random. It is to get you in and out and spend the most money possible. Welcome to reality.
That being said.. Please don't let your lack of shopping skills and your inexperience with dual booting Linux/Windows lead to a conclusion that there is a high level of complexity that does not exist. Every laptop/desktop I've installed Linux on in the last 5 or more years has worked with NO problem. I'm know there are compatibility issues but it is NOT the norm.
Windows 7 only cost me $33 a seat for a 3 seat license as an upgrade from XP.
Re:I actually own some apple hardware. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I actually own some apple hardware. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't say this as a Windows fanboi - I am typing this on my Macbook Air. That doesn't change the fact that I can buy a Windows laptop for around half the price of a Macbook Pro with the same amount of power (if I go MSI or some other brand like that) are about 25% cheaper for a Dell. I frequently sell Core i5, 8GB of RAM laptops for under $1000 *Australian* dollars, which means USD would be even less (because we get massively ripped off on electronics here) and I have a customer's Core i&, 8GB of RAM, 256GB SDD laptop on my desk right now which was less than $1,500.
I desperately wanted to justify a Mac Mini for my home media centre because they look so nice and the media PC is so clearly visible in the lounge room. But once you factor in an optical drive, enough storage to be worthwhile (1TB), the Dell Zino is *massively* cheaper and doesn't look too bad.