Apple Announces iLife '11, FaceTime Mac, Lion, Mac App Store, MacBook Air 827
Apple once again streamed their latest keynote where they unveiled iLife '11 (more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band). FaceTime for the Mac will connect video chat to phones with a Beta starting today. Next we get a preview of OS X Lion which will have an App Store and new UI bits shipping this summer. The Mac App Store will launch on Snow Leopard in 90 days. The New MacBook Air is under 3lbs, 13.3" screen, Core 2 Duo, solid state only storage. There's also an 11.6" version starting at $999 with 64gb of storage shipping today.
Will the app store have the same lock down? (Score:5, Insightful)
Will the app store have the same lock down?
With no apps that can use plug ins?
No games with user maps or mods?
No sex apps?
No fat app?
$99 year fee even for free apps?
fixed price points?
will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?
can apple pull a app at any time?
Will there be a max app size?
Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (Score:5, Funny)
Will the app store have the same lock down?
With no apps that can use plug ins?
No games with user maps or mods?
No sex apps?
No fat app?
$99 year fee even for free apps?
fixed price points?
will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?
can apple pull a app at any time?
Will there be a max app size?
Yes
Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (Score:5, Informative)
The $99/year is for developers, not consumers.
Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
As Ron Gilbert just put it [twitter.com]
"For you Apple apologists claiming Apple will never lock down the Mac, step one is in place and you all let it happen."
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And people bitch at me when I say that Apple is driving towards exactly this. The only reason they don't go the couple steps further to defeat jailbreaks is because it keeps people fucking around on their systems instead of pushing for something truly open.
Also, eventually Apple will shift to iOS. At that point, the only question of lock down is "how and to what degree" since the answer is inevitably "yes."
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
In the comments of this article? Really? Because Apple stated so? Apple denies things that are announced the next month on a regular basis, why is their statement on the future of OS X to be believed?
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
why is their statement on the future of OS X to be believed?
Why is the paranoia of non-mac users posting in a web forum to be believed? Why should we worry when Apple is adding functionality, even if that functionality is locked down. The moment they start locking down existing functionality, I'll be the first to protest and I'll immediately start to consider abandoning OS X for Ubuntu. But none of what they announced today impacts my ability to do all the non-locked-down things that I do on my Mac.
I can still fire up a terminal window and have the full power of a CLI. I can probably even do that from their new Launch Pad app launcher too. I can still install the development tools so that I can build and install standard Unix software and use XCode to build Mac software. I can still install Eclipse when I want a different development environment (basically when I'm not developing Cocoa-based apps.) I can even fire up Emacs or Vim from within the the CLI, though I prefer working in either Eclipse or Qt Creator (when working with Qt.) And I can still install apps in any of the ways that I've always done...whether that be by MacPorts, Fink or the traditional application installation methods (dragging the .app to Applications or installing the .pkg.)
So why should I believe any of the "they're turning the Mac into the iPad" hysteria? They've just added an iPad-like layer on top of the traditional Mac environment without removing any of the access to that environment. I'm still in control of when/whether I wish to access stuff through the new layer or whether I'd like to do things the way I'm accustomed to doing them.
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Why is the paranoia of non-mac users posting in a web forum to be believed
Because, historically, it usually turns out to be correct.
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they have such systems in the field? And why should Apple release locked down functionality?
Apple won't lock down existing functionality, they can't. The issue is what Apple does in the future and how they get people to accept it.
Because Apple has shown a history over the past couple years that they believe users should be locked in a walled garden but provide no means for the user to opt out. In the future, new system buyers may be forced to spend extra money to not be locked down. We don't know for sure, but Apple's existing behavior and current course leaves no real room to be optimistic.
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Because extrapolating from existing trends isn't paranoia. Not trusting market driven statements (of course we aren't making an iPhone 4 don't put off your iPhone purchase because of these silly rumors) isn't paranoia.
One the trend is locked down devices with iOS.Another is moving OS X in the direction of those devices UI wise.
Apple has stated that the lock down is a positive feature that keeps users safe, improves quality and doesn'
XCode: only $99 per year! (Score:3, Insightful)
I can still install the development tools so that I can build and install standard Unix software and use XCode to build Mac software.
The fear is that Apple will start charging $99 per year to use XCode.
I can still install Eclipse when I want a different development environment (basically when I'm not developing Cocoa-based apps.)
The fear is that Apple will start charging $99 per year to use XCode so that you can compile, install, and run your own copy of Eclipse.
And I can still install apps in any of the ways that I've always done...whether that be by MacPorts, Fink or the traditional application installation methods (dragging the .app to Applications or installing the .pkg.)
The fear is that Mac OS Xi will require mandatory verification of digital signatures in the same way that iOS already does, blocking MacPorts, Fink, and drag and drop.
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In all of those cases you mentioned, you're dealing speculating that they may do something in the future. I said in my original post that the minute they lock down OS X from doing things that are possible in other OS environments I'll be the first to start switching to those environments, but what they announced today doesn't do that. When Apple starts charging $99 for XCode, then I'll start bitching. When OS X starts requiring digital signatures, then I'll start bitching. But to start bitching now before A
Re:it's different (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux repositories are a general purpose mechanism; you can point at any "app store" you like with them. Furthermore, they do extensive dependency management and checking.
Apple's App Store gives you one source of applications
To be precise, it gives you one source of applications for whatever mechanism the App Store uses; nothing requires that you get all your apps from there, but you might have to go through the hideously burdensome process of clicking a few links in your browser, maybe typing in your credit card number, and answering a few questions from the installer or dragging an app bundle to /Applications to buy and install an app from the vendor.
and it doesn't seem to do much in the way of dependency management.
How many dependencies between downloadable components do OS X apps have? Linux repositories (and BSD ports/packages collections) have lots of libraries in them, and apps (and other libraries) might depend on them, so dependency checking is useful there. OS X apps, for better or worse, tend to be self-contained - either they only use libraries and frameworks that come with the OS, or they bring along the other libraries and frameworks for the ride.
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
Ubuntu also has an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center]app store[/url], that doesn't mean anything is locked down
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:4, Insightful)
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Ubuntu also has an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center]app store[/url], that doesn't mean anything is locked down
Ubuntu doesn't have a platform already out there that requires you to use their app store and doesn't allow you to install applications from outside of it, and they certainly haven't made any statements about how great this locked-down approach is for their users. Apple do, and they have. That's an important difference.
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see the problem here. As with IBM, and then Microsoft, once Apple gets too arrogant and thinks it has everything its own way, people will be ready for a change, and some new company or technology will yank the rug out from under them. Don't like what Apple is doing? Buy something else.
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Yes, Apple locks down their stuff. You want to know why people don't care too much? Because Apple locks stuff down the right way, for the right reasons. They're not too intrusive, they don't overreach, they make sure 95% of their users will never even notice the lock-in, and they make sure it provides benefit to the users as well as to themselves and their partners.
Most people just want to share songs with a few close friends and family--and Apple's AAC protection allowed that. Most people just want to down
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I don't get (like some other posters have stated) how adding more and different functionality to what is existent is a step towards locking down Macs. Could it happen? Yes, it could. All of the nuclear warheads in the U.S. could also detonate tomorrow, obliterating all of us Americans. That's
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Funny)
This is just another nice income stream for Apple. Does anyone really think that Apple would remove every other way of installing software from the Mac?
No, but babbling about it makes the word 'Insightful' appear next to our posts.
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Why wouldn't they deny shell usage for the average user and put a fancy way to access files on top of your jailed file system?
Seriously??? Maybe because there's zero benefit for them? They would lose tons of customers and 3rd party developers the very next day. How would locking down the existing system benefit them?
It's not whether or not they can do it or want to do it, because it's pretty clear that they can and want to.
How is it clear? What previously open system have they ever locked down? Just because their phones are locked down doesn't mean their desktops and laptops are next.
Re:Ron Gilbert (Score:5, Insightful)
I never thought I'd see the day when there'd be a major desktop OS that's even more closed than Windows. But, here it is.
Here it is? Where? Did they add DRM to OS X? Did they take away Xcode? Did they remove the ability to download tarballs, zip files, and disk images? Did they take away the Finder and the Terminal application? Did they remove Java? Did they remove bash, Perl and Python? Did they prevent Flash from running in the browser? Did they disable sudo? Did they make it so you can't install Fink, Mac Ports, and Homebrew? Did they disable Applescript? Did they remove the Automator? Did they take away anything? Did they remove one, single, solitary capability or piece of functionality?
Maybe Spaces, it's unclear to me if Spaces is part of the mix in Mission Control or if it went away. I hope they didn't remove it as I like multiple desktops...
I have the nagging suspicion that Apple is indeed going to turn anything but the MacPro into a larger version of an iPhone, or the equivalent of an XBox.
Xbox is locked down, Windows is not. Could it be that iOS is locked down, but not OS X?
Goodbye Mac, hello Linux.
I have a sneaking suspiscion you don't have a Mac to get rid of...
RTFA? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Sure, watch the streaming video [edgesuite.net]. :P
Integrated v Fragmented (Score:4, Funny)
more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band
Why can't all this functionality be available through one integrated program instead of being fragmented over many sources?! The end user will get confused!
Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know that every other comment under the sun here is going to focus on the app store and DRM concerns, but I'm also somewhat concerned about the fact that CPU speeds on these new Macbook Airs seem to be... rather pathetic. C2D 1.4 and 1.86 Ghz processors? Is Xcode really that much better at leveraging the GPU, to where they can release something like this when announcing Lion and its new features that sound like they're going to brutalize processing power. With CPU speeds like these, it almost seems like they just didn't want to say the word 'Atom'.
Re:Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (Score:4, Insightful)
The existing Airs are sluggish compared to the rest of the Macbook line, and this model refresh isn't going after that because the people who buy Airs don't run CPU intensive apps like Xcode. The typical use case for the air is 1) college students with rich parents in humanities programs, 2) executives who travel a lot, and 3) gadget mavens who want to show off. In other words, browser, email, and maybe iLife. Coders typically jump straight to the 15" Pro models just for the bigger screen.
It's always been a prestige model and, secondarily, a testbed for miniaturization of components. I'm kind of impressed at the all-Flash storage, actually.
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The store is back now, so I went and had a look. The CPU on the Air can now go up to 2.13GHz. That's about the speed of my current MacBook Pro, and to be honest I rarely tax it - the big thing I'd want to upgrade in this machine is the RAM, which is limited to 3.25GB due to a crappy Intel northbridge.
The most interesting thing is how cheap the SSDs are in the Air. In the other MacBooks, upgrading to a 256GB SSD is £600, but you can get an Air with one for £1350. A 13" MacBook Air with a 2
Re:Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (Score:4, Informative)
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Seriously, they couldn't find a spot for a commodity 1.8" ssd (~ $550 for 256 GB on newegg)?
Not and keep it the thickness and weight it is with the battery life it has. By not going with an ssd enclosure they save a significant amount of space which allows for more than half of the total volume to be integrated batteries.
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Not to mention the fact that Core duo 1.4's still have more computing power than I've used in the vast majority of machines I've owned. Now, get off my astroturf.
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If I had spare money, I'd be pretty tempted by those machines -- consider that my current netbook, that I take everywhere, is something like a 1.2GHz "Celeron". It's competing with Atom, not with a desktop i7.
Re:Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (Score:5, Insightful)
C2D 1.4 and 1.86 Ghz processors?
You have a tiny computer without as much battery, so it's a sensible move to keep the clock speed down. I'm running a 2 GHz C2D computer right now, and the CPU is never pegged. The hard drive is usually what slows it down. This 1.86 GHz Macbook Air will probably be faster.
Clock speed is not an absolute measure of computer speed, and for what most people do on their computers these days (email/web browsing), any modern computer is enormous overkill.
... when announcing Lion and its new features that sound like they're going to brutalize processing power.
The new features don't sound that much more intensive than what exists today in OSX, and Apple has been getting better at improving efficiency and using the GPU, so you might even see performance gains.
With CPU speeds like these, it almost seems like they just didn't want to say the word 'Atom'.
Or maybe they didn't use the word "Atom" because it's not an Atom processor, and maybe they didn't use an Atom processor because a low-voltage C2D was a better design choice for their needs.
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With CPU speeds like these, it almost seems like they just didn't want to say the word 'Atom'.
The fastest available Intel Atom is the D525 [intel.com] which is dual core. It gets 709 on PassMark [cpubenchmark.net].
An Intel Core 2 Duo U9400 1.4Ghz [intel.com], on the same benchmark, gets 963 [cpubenchmark.net].
For reference, an Intel Core i3 330UM @ 1.20GHz scores 1196 and an Intel Core2 Duo U9600 @ 1.60GHz scores 1129.
CPU speeds on these new Macbook Airs seem to be... rather pathetic
That's like asking for a big rig with a trailer to pull 1G on a skidpad or a Tesla Roadster to tow a big rig trailer.
Is the Air underpowered? Of course. But you find me an 11" form factor laptop that doesn't look like a giant brick and has
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
One step closer to macos lockdown just like the iOS platform
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There's a difference. If the Mac app store leads to a lockdown like iOS where you can ONLY install apps via the App store, then that's not like Linux distributions and package managers at all. Every distribution and it's package manager does not prevent the installation of programs outside of the package manager.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sigh... I should have invested in a tin foil hat startup years ago. I probably could have retired by now!
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Google voice was banned forever for no other reason than Apple didn't want to let Google in.
Absolutely false. Google functionality is built into iOS. There are other Google apps in the App Store, and there are even Google Voice apps in the app store. Apple did not approve the official GV app for specific concerns about it uploading a user's contacts to Google, and replacing a rather prominent core aspect of the iPhone. Google could easily update the app to address those concerns, but they won't. Partly because they have an excellent Google Voice web app (which Apple has no ability or desire to blo
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The Mac has always been treated as a fundamentally different platform to iOS. And iOS developers will still need a Mac to actually develop apps, so obviously the Mac will not be a mandatory walled garden.
It's like looking at Steam for Windows and screaming that Windows is going to be locked down. It's idiotic.
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There's a difference. If the Mac app store leads to a lockdown like iOS where you can ONLY install apps via the App store
This is absurd. It's like saying drinking a glass of water leads to drowning.
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Do you really think Adobe or Microsoft or anyone else who can actually market their software on their own is going to give Apple 30%?
What do you think Adobe or Microsoft's wholesale prices currently are? I guarantee you that they get well under 70% of the retail price for sold software.
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You don't seem to understand Mac OS X software installation. You also don't seem to understand that you can still install apps in other ways besides the Mac App Store, such as double-clicking a downloads .pkg file. Also, you don't seem to understand that Macs can have many different applications stores active all at once.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's completely optional. It'll probably always be optional too, just like you still have an option to run DOS on a 386.
I don't think anybody is saying that this is mandatory TODAY, the issue is down the road.. Will the successor to OS X be iOS 5.0 or some such?
I did get a laugh at one site saying basically the future of apps is Modal. I'm so glad I'm running a multi core CPU so I can run one app at a time...
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux users yesterday: "We have centralized software repositories with quality control testing and easy installation, and it rocks."
Linux users today: "Apple is locking down the Mac!"
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
There was never a Linux distro that blocked all software installation other than from its official repositories.
In Apple's case, we've all seen iOS.
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In colloquial use, "Linux" in the context it was used by GGP clearly did not refer to Android and other such applications. It referred to "desktop Linux" such as Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora etc; and the corresponding repositories.
If a particular company selling Linux-based products (such as Android) with locked repositories was getting a similar repository for their desktop solutions, I'd sure as hell assume that they plan to lock that down as well.
Ultimately, I think the point is that all reasons that Apple (an
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Expensive $9000 NDA licensed devkits. Just like on home consoles today. You think the idea is outrageous, right? Well, yes, today it is. Not in 5-10 years, when 10.9 finally takes away the ability to run any software except software signed by apple, distributed exclusively on the app store. Locked, right now apps are locked on the iPhone.
Is there really a market for this? (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, App Store for iPhone / iPod touch? I get that. It's basically the first of its kind and creates its own market share. Apps which would have been trivial and/or freeware for a desktop could be sold to mobile users if they were good or early to market enough. Kinds of apps that would be made wholly useless given a full-size-screen web browser and a keyboard could have a market, too.
But for the Mac? When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:4, Insightful)
To even match that, Apple will have to do a lot of work, and by a lot I mean an order of magnitude more than the PoS that is Game Center on the iPhone.
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:4, Interesting)
While it may be a warning shot, Steam does still have distinct advantages:
1. Little to no censorship. I'm trying to imagine Left 4 Dead 2 on the app store, and I just can't see it.
2. Login anywhere, download anywhere. With a username and password on Steam, you can get at all of your games.
3. Friends / Teams. Teams are especially important for online games.
4. PC compatibility. Write once for Steam on the PC, utilize for Steam on the Mac.
5. PC cross purchase. Buy once for the Mac, have it for the PC. Just in case.
It's not perfect, but it definitely helps them.
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't. Just at the place where I work. 47 mac desktops. 45 have bootcamp installed. 40 also have VMware fusion installed to run windows while they are running OSX. 37 never boot into OSX at all. We have to get them to boot into OSX once a month for updates for OSX. That itself is a major undertaking. The 7 who do not have bootcamp have never used anything but apple computers.
On the laptop front, 4 out of 39 apple laptops do not have bootcamp and VMware fusion installed.
Most of the people here wanted the apple hardware and not OSX. I am not sure how that is in other work places, but since this place has corporate license agreements and can install windows on many machines, they make use of it. I would say if people have access to windows, they are likely to install it on their apple machine. Even if it is a 'just in case' sort of thing.
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Speaking as someone who does support for Apple computers ... that's just fucking idiotic.
Granted, the VMware fusion bits can be excused, if they're spending most of their time in OS X and just using VMware or Parallels for small stuff, but why on earth would you pay so much money for Apple computers, if you aren't using OS X?
Sure, they look nice, but the mice are ... well ... annoying to me.
And the laptops might look more rugged than others, but I doubt they are more rugged, and they definitely aren't rated
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I'm not sure anecdotes are useful. The small dev shop I was working in today has maybe a dozen Macs for development and testing. None have bootcamp or Windows of any flavor. That's what the Windows boxes are for. So unless someone has actual numbers on how many Macs have Windows of some flavor, I guess I don't see the point of continuing the conversation.
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You know that's a fascinating bit of propaganda for a guy in a forensics lab to be pushing.
You should really think about that for a bit...
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:5, Informative)
You're just trolling.
Our Macs do a more than satisfactory job at analyzing large amounts of scientific data. For the mundane stuff, most in our office use Office 2008 for the word processing and spreadsheet and Keynote for presentations. Most are looking to upgrade to Office 2010 to regain some macros in Excel.
We don't do any mechanical work, but I've heard that that a new version of Autocad for OS X was just recently announced, and if needed we can run Pro/E within Linux.
Incidentally I use VmWare Fusion to work on some of our server code before I release it to our public hosts. Our OS X desktops work well with our Linux rack mount servers. Though our Mac Pro really crunches the numbers quickly.
Maybe you just need to hang around different people... ;)
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:5, Funny)
For example, the people I know are more commonly Java developers, whereas maybe you know more Objective-C developers.
And the lesson is: be more careful about choosing friends?
Re:Is there really a market for this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, we know that Jobs loves electronic distribution (not supporting Blu-Ray playback for instance, in favor of Digital Downloads from the iTunes store).
There is probably a market for this though. As more and more people get used to using iOS, they get used to the AppStore. Most average would probably jump at the idea of running a "real computer" with the same "ease of use" features (even though you or I will cringe).
How often do most people usually install software?
The OS comes pre-installed. They MIGHT install an Office Suite or a Web Browser right after they get a new computer. After that, the only time they install software is if they need more functionality (yearly Tax Return Software/New Printer/New Game/Video Editing Software). With the exception of Gaming, most people don't really install new software very often once they have a web-browser and an Office Suite. For them, the idea of Easily Installing/Deinstalling software with just one or two mouse clicks is a compelling idea.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
It gets rid of a lot of developer headaches, including finding a place with high bandwidth mirrors for consumers to download and fetch updates.
Yes, Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.
Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax". How long until the only way to get software on your Mac desktop is via Apple's store and all Mac developers are required to pay a 30% tribute to Apple? And, since taxes are passed on to consumers, every time you as a customer buys an "app" from the store it's really you who's paying that insane 30%.
But that's beside the main point. Do you really thing most smaller developers can't find a place to host their website and software which costs less than 30% of all their sales? Keep in mind that most developers don't need Steam/Microsoft/Amazon levels of bandwidth.
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As soon as Apple can convince Microsoft and Adobe to hand over 30% of their revenue from Office and Photoshop. I like a conspiracy theory as much as anybody... no, wait, I actually don't.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nonsense, large vendors like Microsoft and Adobe will get a free pass (since they're platform-movers.) Everyone else, though, will have to pay up.
You don't seriously believe that all the major game studios are doing the 70/30 thing for their releases on the App Store, do you?
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but if you can get my app in front of 50 million Mac owners, and handle application delivery AND payment processing...
I will GLADLY give you 30% of the action.
Do you have ANY clue whatsoever what it takes in marketing and advertising costs alone to even get a dozen people a month to visit a website selling some OS X something-or-other?
This is a BARGIN.
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For an Apple thread, I'm surprised it took so long.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
As soon as Apple can convince Microsoft and Adobe to hand over 30% of their revenue from Office and Photoshop.
You say that as though it's a good thing that Mac owners are now essentially dependent on Microsoft and Adobe of all horrible things to safeguard their freedom of choice, as surreal as it sounds.
Those two companies provide pieces of software too crucial for Apple to flip them the bird... for now. Otherwise you'd already have the scenario you deride as a conspiracy theory.
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OS X is still UNIX.
So is iOS.
(But FWIW I don't see the App store becoming the only way to get software onto your Mac).
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Informative)
iOS is "unix". OS X is UNIX [opengroup.org].
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Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Informative)
And have they EVER made a statement to that effect about Mac OS X that would lead you to believe they would prevent you from installing software any other way?
They were pretty up-front about it with the iPhone - if you want to distribute to the iPhone, this is the only way to do it.
In today's announcement, it was simply "a way to distribute apps" - not "the only" way to distribute apps. Frankly, I'm not sure why people seem to think that the Mac OS X and iOS platforms will necessarily, or ever, converge to that point. They've stated that they don't intend to lock down Mac OS X that way, and they've made no comments that would contradict that today.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not exactly free to do it on your own. For a small shop it's a huge benefit to not have to deal with all that infrastructure and hiring and payment processing. A one or two person team can focus on development and not worry about the other headaches. It will bring me back to developing Mac software.
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I think you're missing the point. Indie developers don't need the bandwidth, they need the exposure. Apple potentially gives this to them, assuming they don't screw it up like the iOS app store with 20 billion useless and annoying apps.
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Do you idiots not understand how retail product distribution works?
If you can get my app in front of 50 million Mac owners, and handle application delivery AND payment processing...
I will GLADLY give you 30% of the action.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Funny)
But it's Apple... And this is slashdot...
Brain... struggling to... process cognitive dissonance...
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"Darth Jobs" is also acceptable, but only if you are also a partitioner of the dark art.
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How much do you think currently goes to hosting, credit card processing, chargebacks, etc? 70% of end-consumer cost is pretty reasonable for an overall take. If you're going boxed, I'd be surprised if you got %20 out of the deal. Older shareware processing companies did a 50/50 split. I don't know what is standard in shareware now, but 70/30 seems reasonable. And if you're thinking of doing individual credit card transactions on unit sales of $2 each, forget about it. The card fees will eat you alive.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax". How long until the only way to get software on your Mac desktop is via Apple's store and all Mac developers are required to pay a 30% tribute to Apple? And, since taxes are passed on to consumers, every time you as a customer buys an "app" from the store it's really you who's paying that insane 30%.
Let me preface this by saying that I am against the one-company-to-rule-them-all model that Apple seems to adore. And one of the reasons is exactly the point you bring up above. However, I think there is something to be said about the user experience brought about by having one company (in this case, the platform and hardware developer, Apple) whose feet are ultimately held to fire for the quality of the applications that are available to end-users on their platform (yes this does and WILL apply to Apple)
Getting 70% is a developer fantasy ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.
Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax".
Getting 70% is a developer fantasy. By the time you find a publisher, and they sell to a distributor, who then sells it to a retail store ... a developer is lucky to get 15% to 20%. Digital distribution is a game changer. For a small developer implementing an online store with support and returns, paying for international payment processing, bandwidth, etc is non-trivial. If that adds up to less than 30% then the difference may easily be justified by the increased traffic and exposure of a high profile site like one provided by Apple. Unless you are a large corporation Apple's deal is not bad at all.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But if I could buy him a mac, keep the administrator account for myself, and give him a user account that could only install and run app store apps
Hi, you appear to be looking for one of these:
http://www.ubuntu.org/ [ubuntu.org]
http://www.fedoraproject.org/ [fedoraproject.org]
http://www.madrivalinux.com/ [madrivalinux.com]
http://www.opensuse.org/ [opensuse.org]
Seriously, we have been able to do that sort of thing for a really long time now with GNU/Linux. That is exactly what I do with my mother's desktop, and there has not been any problems yet.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as it is not the only place to buy applications for the Mac, then that's ok. We already have steam for games and that works well.
The issue I have with the app store on the iPhone/iPad is that if it falls into a category that doesn't meet the puritan standards, then you can't buy it. It would be nice to see a place for application that are API compliant, but don't fill some of the other check-boxes.
Re:App Store looks interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
You forgot to include:
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux does it, but it sure as hell isn't better.
Re:Not very exciting (Score:5, Informative)
They are *not* locking down OSX. You will still be able to get apps anywhere you want.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Correction: they're not doing it now. Wait a few years. Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Then RMS rides in on his gnu brandishing his katana and saves the day.
</nerdgasm>
Re:Not very exciting (Score:5, Insightful)
Oooh ooh, I can play that game too!
Apple is not currently murdering small children. Wait a few years.
Sounds sinister, doesn't it?
So, iOS ~ XBox & OS X ~ Windows? (Score:4, Informative)
ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
Yeah, I think they'll call their business distribution OS X. It'll be a lot like Windows.
Re:Not very exciting (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, it's worse than lame as they're now locking down Mac OSX just like they do with iOS.
You mean except for the fact that it was explicitly stated that the app store wasn't the exclusive place to get apps for Mac OS X? How can it be locked down when nothing has changed beyond having a new source for downloading apps from?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (Score:5, Insightful)
And for a huge number of consumers, they'll be quite happy with the locked down device with Apple as gatekeeper. They'll have everything they need or want, will pay a bit extra for that, and won't even notice the /. crowd wailing and gnashing its collective teeth over Jobs' "war on openness".
When will /. readers acknowledge that they're not the entire fucking market for computing devices?
Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (Score:5, Insightful)
They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air) that will eventually replace all consumer devices with built-in DRM. Steve will have no incentive to allow you to buy any software outside of the App Store, since he gets a 30% cut.
No, seriously guys. You already consented. He's going to stick it all the way in.
I think people like you _want_ Apple to become some evil company because you dislike something else about the company or its users.
No, seriously guy. No one consented to anything. It's a product announcement and evil DRM wasn't part of it.
Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (Score:5, Insightful)
What now? The new Airs aren't much different than what was out yesterday -- the only differences are a new case, a higher-resolution screen, some updated specs, stereo speakers, on-board Flash, the same trackpad as the rest of the Macbook line, a smaller version, etc. Its still an OSX laptop, nothing 'hybridized' about it. There's no more DRM in the new Air than in any other MacBook. Nothing has changed in that regard.
Second, Steve said you could still get software from other sources. It would be platform suicide to do anything else. They're just trying to make it more convenient for developers and users. I'm personally curious to look at the terms and see if open source software can be distributed using it -- in those cases it could basically be a repository just like on any Linux distro.
Finally, I haven't consented to anything like that. If OS X Lion were to implement the changes you seem to think exist, I would stick with Snow Leopard. If the changes were made retroactive and made it difficult to use old versions somehow, I could install Ubuntu. The Mac platform suits my needs for now (a Unix platform with nice laptop hardware integration) -- its not actually a cult, so I can re-evaluate my options at any time.
Quit the FUD.
Re:Not a fan, but Jobs is right (Score:5, Insightful)
So both of them got Macs (at different times) and now I don't get any questions... Because shit just works for them...
Re:Not a fan, but Jobs is right (Score:4, Interesting)
Your father-in-law is apparently ridiculously more tech-savvy than mine, who needs to visit the Apple Store Geniuses for help multiple times every month.
I honestly don't think Apple has made money off of him, in the grand scheme of things.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't normally defend Apple but you're really comparing two different product lines. They still have a replacement for your 12" powerbook, it is called a MacBook Pro (13"). Ok, it is one inch more, but it is still small and has all the bells and whistles you're droning on about.
The Air series seems to target portability users where weight and size requirements trump all others. A MacBook Pro 13" comes in at 4.5lbs, while the MacBook Air 13" comes in at 2.9lbs, and the 11" version at 2.3lbs.
You simply