Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Google Iphone Open Source Operating Systems Apple

Steve Jobs Lashes Out At Android 864

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the battle-of-the-billions dept.
Ponca City writes "Steve Jobs doesn't usually make a guest appearance on Apple's post-earnings conference calls with analysts, but this time he made an exception, attacking Google for marketing its operating system as 'open' versus Apple's 'closed' iOS. 'Google loves to characterize Android as "open" and iOS and iPhone as "closed." We find this a bit disingenuous, and clouding the real difference between our two approaches,' said Jobs. 'Android is very fragmented. Many Android [manufacturers], including the two largest, HTC and Motorola, install proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from the commodity Android experience. The user's left to figure it out. Compare this to iPhone, where every handset works the same.' Jobs stated that the real debate is between 'fragmented versus integrated' and which is better for the consumer. 'When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants.' Jobs also criticized the Android Marketplace, pointing out that there are at least three other app stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for users and work for developers. 'This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers,' Jobs said. 'Contrast this with Apple's integrated App Store, which offers users the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Steve Jobs Lashes Out At Android

Comments Filter:
  • by rwa2 (4391) * on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:17PM (#33950754) Homepage Journal

    I hear it's so much better when someone else adjusts all the straps for you.

  • Tweetdeck's reply? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mlts (1038732) * on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:19PM (#33950788)

    Didn't Dodsworth from Tweetdeck say that he had only two guys on the Android port, and fragmentation wasn't really an issue?

  • by mveloso (325617) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:19PM (#33950798)

    Jailbreak your iPhone and install what you want.
    Re-Rom your Android and install what you want.

    What's the difference?

  • Just work (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hatta (162192) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:22PM (#33950846) Journal

    iStuff just works until you want to do something Steve hasn't pre-approved. At which point it just doesn't work.

  • by chemicaldave (1776600) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:23PM (#33950856)

    "When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants."

    Integrated vs fragmented. He's just trying to redefine the terms in his favor.

    Open > Closed

    vs

    Integrated > Fragmented

    Well done Steve.

  • by cpuh0g (839926) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:25PM (#33950906)
    Wow, what an overheated headline. Jobs did not "lash out". He gave very reasoned response and delineated the significant differences in the philosophy and design of the 2 platforms. It wasnt an angry rant by any means.
  • by slapout (93640) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:26PM (#33950936)

    iOS does things one way, Android does things another way. Some people prefer one, some people prefer the other. Some like Coca-cola. Some like Pepsi. Just pick the one you want.

  • Dear Steve, (Score:3, Insightful)

    by acoustix (123925) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:28PM (#33950976) Homepage

    I want a phone that will let me install whatever app I choose to install regardless of who made it or what store sold it. For me, Android and BlackBerry work best. For the not-so-techy or those who don't care if they're in a walled garden, an iOS device will suit them just fine.

    Regards,
    Me

  • by mark72005 (1233572) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:29PM (#33950996)
    This is the point Jobs is making and actually I agree with it.

    A platform is not really "open" if it's only open in a way that 1%ers (1% most technical users) can do anything with it that benefits from openness.

    The biggest manufacturers are fragmenting Android by installing their own worthless bloatware, I mean, end-user experience, over the top.

    And if the users don't do anything beyond use the phone more or less as-is - customizing the pre-packaged frontend, installing approved apps from the approved app store - is it really open, or just another brand of the same thing iOS is?
  • by Monkeedude1212 (1560403) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:29PM (#33951018) Journal

    The problem isn't with Google though - if you have an open platform it's bound to become fragmented. I've got 3 versions of Python installed on my PC because different Apps need different versions of it. Do I blame Python for this mess? Absolutely not, I blame the developers because of it.

    "Android is very fragmented. Many Android [manufacturers], including the two largest, HTC and Motorola, install proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from the commodity Android experience. The user's left to figure it out. Compare this to iPhone, where every handset works the same."

    Well exactly, Jobs, the problem is with HTC and Motorola all wanting their own interface to seperate them from the Android experience (meaning, forcing the fragmentation to happen) instead of just going with the latest Android version. If Developers targetted the latest Android, and the cell phone companies went with the latest Android, you'd get the same kind of experience on a droid as the integrated experience on an iPhone, and you'd have the open-ness with it too.

  • by Pojut (1027544) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:30PM (#33951034) Homepage

    What Jobs was saying is exactly why, excluding fanboys on both sides, Android tends to be more popular with really geeky folks while the iPhone tends to be more popular with people that want their experience ready to go out of the box.

  • by js3 (319268) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:32PM (#33951076)

    No that's not what he was trying to say. He was trying to say, my shit is better than yours.

  • by jordan314 (1052648) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:32PM (#33951096)
    I'm surprised fragmentation is his choice of argument against Android. There are several things iOS does better than Android, but it's getting harder and harder to develop for iOS because of fragmentation. Hell, it used to be called iPhone OS, not iOS, but now you have to make sure your code works on previous generation iPhones, the 4's retina display, the iPad, and the iPod Touch. Resolution differences, support for multitasking, and camera differences are all getting more difficult to manage!
  • by RyanFenton (230700) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:33PM (#33951106)

    'Changing the subject'.

    "Folks have been saying your platform seems a bit proprietary and closed."
    "Hey, how about them White Sox?"
    "Your platform might be proprietary and closed."
    "Yeah, well so is your mother!"
    "Your platform is proprietary and closed."
    "Oh yeah? Well, you just must not like having a good experience with your phone."

    The problem is that all the more reasonable responses might paint them into a corner where they have to offer an option for a sandbox for a more open use of their platform - and their strategy precludes that as an option. So, like with elections where offering a valid option to voters is too risky (to your various monied interests), insulting the other option becomes the rule of the day.

    Ryan Fenton

  • by c (8461) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:34PM (#33951160)

    Hate to get all Stallman on you, but any definition of open that doesn't include "make install" is rather weak.

  • by mrjatsun (543322) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:34PM (#33951162)

    The tweet is FUD... He missed the most important part.. How do you install this on a Droid or most other
    Android devices? You need to root it just like you do to jailbreak a iPhone.

    Android devices are far from open.. Don't believe the hype... My hope is for
    a Ubuntu tablet.. Maybe that will actually be open...

  • Re:headline FAIL (Score:2, Insightful)

    by theaveng (1243528) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:35PM (#33951178)

    Jobs is doing what the typical car salesman or Sears clerk does - twisting the facts. "Self-rinse cycle? Airbags? Openness? Nah you don't want or need any of that. Trust. Me. :-D"

    His opinion is therefore biased and means Nothing to me.

  • by argmanah (616458) * <argmanah@yaPOLLOCKhoo.com minus painter> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:38PM (#33951256)

    Wow, what an overheated headline. Jobs did not "lash out". He gave very reasoned response and delineated the significant differences in the philosophy and design of the 2 platforms. It wasnt an angry rant by any means.

    You must own an iPhone :).

    But seriously, the idea that "integrated" gives the app developer the ability to be more innovative is simply not true when the reality is Apple is the gatekeeper and any app they don't like they just remove from their "integrated" marketplace. His response was not reasoned, it was a marketing ploy. A "reasoned response" would be "We at Apple feel like the users get a better experience when we have full control over what you can and can't do with a device. Since most people are idiots, the average user is happier when we make decisions for them. True freedom results in a worse experience, so we don't believe in freedom." At least that would be intellectually honest.

  • Jobs is babbling. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fyngyrz (762201) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:39PM (#33951278) Homepage Journal

    Jobs also criticized the Android Marketplace, pointing out that there are at least three other app stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for users and work for developers. "This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers,"

    Yes, because people have proven that having more than one drug store, supermarket, or fast food chain inevitably disorients them and fouls up their lives. Oh, wait.

    I really do like my Apple products, but not for the reasons Jobs pushes; more like in spite of his ideas. I'd love another store, particularly one where Jobs Judeo-Christian mores aren't pushed upon me; or, conversely, if Apple's store stopped insisting that apps have to work they way they think they should, or that apps "can't duplicate functionality." I'm hugely fond my my iPad, but the idea that it would be less useful to me if there were more than one app store available to me... that's just wrong.

  • by theaveng (1243528) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:40PM (#33951292)

    Alos thought the comparison of Apple to a church was particularly insightful.
    (Next I guess I'll be modded troll)

  • by eldavojohn (898314) * <eldavojohn@gmFREEBSDail.com minus bsd> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:40PM (#33951298) Journal

    For now, iOS lets me do what I need to do without getting in the way or making me find the right libraries or compile anything.

    Honestly, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have never had to reinstall an app other than during an update for that app. When my DROID updated Android, everything came back up. I have developed Android applications, the SDK is a just a zip that works in Linux, Windows even Mac. And you just unzip it and use the emulator and SDK that comes with it. Awhile ago, I tried to code iPhone apps but given that I don't have a Mac -- no luck!

    When I spend time compiling software for the iOS, I want it to do something new and perhaps make some money while doing it.

    Wow. Then perhaps you'd like to discuss the fees you had to pay in order to develop something for the iPhone? Are you enrolled in the iOS developer program? I put together the machine I develop on and it was quite inexpensive. And if I wanted to distribute my apps on Android Market I'm not aware of any fee or approval BS that comes with Apple's market. Do some reading [wikipedia.org]:

    To run an application on the iPhone, the application needs to be signed. This signed certificate is only granted by Apple after the developer has first developed the software through either the US$99/year Standard package or the US$299/year Enterprise package with the iPhone SDK.

    Good luck "making a bit of money" when you're already negative from the get go!

    Really, your comment reads like something written by someone who is confusing the customer with the developer and has never tried coding an Android app. You're correct that git and make don't mean anything to a customer but it does if you consider that developers have to embrace the platform before the customer has an apps to use!

    Short run: make your money on iPhone. Long run: Android wins out. Trust me on this one.

    I can't tell if you're confused or trolling ... I read your blog so I know you're not stupid.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:45PM (#33951418)

    If by "root" you mean "overwrite the software on the phone" then yes, you do need to replace the software on the phone to replace the software on the phone.

  • by Hatta (162192) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:51PM (#33951552) Journal

    A platform is not really "open" if it's only open in a way that 1%ers (1% most technical users) can do anything with it that benefits from openness.

    That's nonsense. How many Linux users do you think actually use the source provided? Probably close to 1%. Does that make Linux not open?

  • by Tharsman (1364603) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:00PM (#33951788)

    Integrated vs fragmented. He's just trying to redefine the terms in his favor.

    Open > Closed

    vs

    Integrated > Fragmented

    Well done Steve.

    It all depends on who is buying, as he said: "When selling to users who want their devices to just work"

    If you are a grandma that just got such a device, you will be on the "users who want their devices just to work" category. If you read slashdot, you are likely not in that category and instead in the "i want to tweak this thing to no end" category, in that case, obviously iOS devices are not for you.

  • by iluvcapra (782887) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:04PM (#33951876)

    That's not a problem with Android, it's a problem with the phones.

    How is one supposed to use Android without the phone? You can't evaluate Android independent of its use on a particular piece of hardware.

    the real evil is the phone companies.

    And the distribution and marketing model of Android guarantees the carrier and phone manufacturer the ability to do whatever they please. Android strikes a blow for software freedom while grievously wounding network freedom. If you are a tinkerer the you'll benefit from the open OS, Google and Motorola certainly do, they get free bugfixes from users all over the world! But if you are a non-hacking end user Android is just another carrier and manufacturer straight-jacket. Android is a phone company's handmaiden.

  • by Andy Dodd (701) <atd7@@@cornell...edu> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:04PM (#33951884) Homepage

    Anyone who uses PlaysForSure as an example of an "Open" technology is spewing random bullshit with NOTHING to back it up... I'll get more information from fldksjc;jlssdljl than such random baseless claims.

    PlaysForSure failed because it was a fundamentally closed technology, designed with the express purpose of closing down the devices it was installed on. Being closed doesn't work unless you have major market share (which Apple does in the music realm.)

  • by c (8461) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:05PM (#33951898)

    It's a short hand for "install the build somewhere". Something which many in the latest crop of Android devices aren't too friendly about. If Google really wanted to equate Android with "open", they'd stop allowing the use of the Android trademark by manufacturers and carriers who lock down devices that way...

  • by Rockoon (1252108) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:07PM (#33951934)

    A "reasoned response" would be "We at Apple feel like the users get a better experience when we have full control over what you can and can't do with a device. Since most people are idiots, the average user is happier when we make decisions for them. True freedom results in a worse experience, so we don't believe in freedom." At least that would be intellectually honest.

    Thats a reasoned response, but certainly not an intellectually honest one.

    Apple is playing gatekeeper because Apple is protecting its other interests. You paid half a grand for that iPhone, but thats not enough. They also want to nickel and dime you on the content you consume. Sure, there are some free apps, and some free music, and some free videos.. but you are still in their store getting it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:08PM (#33951952)

    It is all because his argument isn't about the consumer in actuality, it's about his revenue stream. A guaranteed 30% from every single app sold? Imagine if MS got that for every Windows App? Even if the customer requests a refund, they get to keep it, that since 100% comes out of the developer's pocket. And they get approval, so they can push their moral choices on everyone else, that's just a bonus.

    I welcome all of this simply because the more people like him push, the more ordinary people start to wake up and push back. Revolutions just don't happen in places where the masses aren't really pissed off. Coups, maybe, but not full fledged revolutions. And we are overdue for one right about now.

    Even having said that, this is still way too early for one, I think. But it's coming.

  • by MBGMorden (803437) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:09PM (#33951954)

    With all due respect to Ghandi, that quote always annoyed me. For every 1 person in that quote whose last line was "Then you win" there are 10 more who have to substitute "Then you get your ass kicked".

  • Re:Steve is right (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:09PM (#33951962)

    In the future things that you consider "nerd only" will be normal and mainstream. Technology changes culture.

  • by suomynonAyletamitlU (1618513) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:12PM (#33952034)

    And if the users don't do anything beyond use the phone more or less as-is - customizing the pre-packaged frontend, installing approved apps from the approved app store - is it really open, or just another brand of the same thing iOS is?

    When you need (or want) something to be open and it's not, that's bad. When you don't need something to be open, but it is anyway, that's good. I don't know why you consider these equivalent. (Whether there are times you would want it not to be open is an argument for elsewhere)

    Replace "Open" by "Within range of a fire department." Some people never use the fire department, but as long as they can be reached, then if they ever need it, it's there. If they're not in range, and they need a fire truck, SOL.

    Frankly, I agree that the closing off of handsets is stupid, but if assuages corporate fears, then they'll continue to make that decision. But, all it takes is one device--competently made and on the right network. If there's just one, then the option is still available to you.

  • by h4rr4r (612664) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:13PM (#33952044)

    As an android user facing the reality of future devices prevented from running stock builds I hope Nokia does well. Once my contract ends I will probably have to go that way.

  • by tophermeyer (1573841) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:14PM (#33952062)

    Yeah, but to be fair one of his points was that the current terms were created by what he views as the open source community. The terms were already defined to put his product in a bad light. Of course he is trying to redefine terms in the debate, the current terms are unfair.

    His main point, about Android not in fact being an open community, was really spot on. Android might be "open" as in FOSS, but most of the community is definitely not able to take advantage of Android's openness.

  • by countSudoku() (1047544) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:14PM (#33952066) Homepage

    It's merely lying to save face with the moronic investors during a "not-as-good-as-we-thought" quarter. Let's fix those awful quotes and inject some truthiness into them:

    "When selling to users who want their devices not to suck, we believe a walled garden will be less confusing than and open one, every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform in our choice of development environment, rather than choose their own. And not piss us off with any of the innovations that go too far and provide free things where AT&T should be profiting from, as the incumbent carrier."

    "This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers; users are cheated out of freely available, useful software at the whim of Apple, and devs get to jump through Apple's shitty app acceptance hoops. Everybody* wins!"
    * ©Apple and ©AT&T constitute the term "Everybody" in the context of all Apple Official Announcements.

    "Contrast this with Apple's integrated App Store, which offers users the most boring choices of tip calculators and other safe, mainstream, applications that lack some basic usability found in our other products. Ones that don't need to be shaken and have a real keyboards and mice attached. We once made computers, you know. Now just MP3 players and an MP3 player with a camera and a phone built in. Get excited, gammit!!1!"

  • by biryokumaru (822262) <biryokumaru@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:17PM (#33952128)
    My god... it's like voting in America. Everyone complains that both sides have all the same flaws, but no one is willing to admit that there's more than two options.
  • by david_thornley (598059) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:19PM (#33952172)

    Competition is good, also. I have an iPhone. The better Android phones get, the better iPhones have to get, and if they don't I'll have some really good choices if I decide to leave iPhone.

    Similarly, Android enthusiasts should be happy as the iPhone gets better.

    I don't want to see one dominate the market. That way lies things like Vista and IE 6.

  • by theaveng (1243528) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:22PM (#33952232)

    Sadly the US Congress (and possibly the EU Parliament) disagrees with you.

    They've passed numerous laws that say device makers can encrypt data, in order to prevent the user from violated (possibly) copyrighted material. VCRs did it first, then DVD players, then DVRs, next cable/dish systems, and now computers and cellphones.

  • by Xest (935314) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:34PM (#33952472)

    He probably meant in in the same way at his last press conference he said the iPod Touch was the largest mobile gaming platform on the planet having sold double the number of mobile gaming devices as Sony and Nintendo put together. Except, there's about 300 million Nintendo DS' and PSPs out there, but only 30 million iPod touches.

    Then there was the one about 275,000 iPhone activations per day on average, which would equate to 100 million a year, except even their best iPhone quarter so far they've only shifted 14 million, which if they kept up over a year would be 56 million, but that figure is roughly only the total sales of the combined set of iPhones over the last 3 and a half years.

    Sometimes when Steve says things, I'm sure they're right in his little world, but it's best to always look at Steve's comments in that way- I think he gets a bit confused between fantasy and reality. There's no doubt that the iPhone is a resounding success, and the iPod touch is far from being a flop or anything like that, but the things he comes out with, just don't even make sense, and don't hold up to the cold hard numbers that his own company releases in it's quarterly reports. At best the numbers he uses in public conferences are grossly unrepresentative of the reality of the situation, at worst they're just completely and utterly made up.

    I'd have a lot more respect for the man if he was content with the success of his products as is because there's no doubt they're succesful, but the fact he has to inflate the numbers to the extreme and enter into fantasy territory sometimes does actually make me question whether the guy is even sane and hasn't just completely lost the plot. Like you say, he's either ignorant of his own companies figures, or just likes to outright lie- or as I say, he's just fucking nuts.

  • by AltairDusk (1757788) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:34PM (#33952476)

    Each to their own. All I am saying is that the tweet by Andy was lost on the *vast* proportion of the population that would use a mobile device.

    To be fair the definition of open as applies to Android and open source seems to escape a vast proportion of that population too...

  • by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:35PM (#33952498) Homepage
    Great that you can alter Android's kernel. Too bad you can't just install it on whatever Android phone you want to.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:53PM (#33952836)

    Yeah right. Do you have an app for that?

    The critical mass of people in the west have their heads so far up the ars***les of people like Jobs, they don't know what the fuck they want or need.

    Just listen to the apple cocksuckers on this website - after all this is supposed to be a place for nerds and geeks and yet you put some glowing plastic in front of them and keep telling them it's what Einstein would've used and they fall for it. It's truly mind-blowing!

    They work their little hearts out day in day out just to pay for this tat. and all the while their world is crumbling around them.

    They're told everything they need to know - what they should think and when, what they should aspire to, what is possible and what is not.

    No one could've predicted that consumerism would reach such heights (or lows)

    If you ask them (and most people in the west) then any attempt to improve the system will lead to a replacement that is as bad if not worse.

    The sad truth is that nothing is inevitable, and there just isn't the slightest chance of a revolutionary change in who has the power in the west. Things are going to really fall apart before you see any change whatsoever, and they will. And by that time it will very probably be too late.

  • by johnlcallaway (165670) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @04:59PM (#33952938)
    Nielsen: Android market share eclipses iPhone [sfgate.com]

    Another Apple myth tossed out.....

    Android provides choice. There are many different models out there, some with keyboards, some with fancy organic screens, all kinds of features.

    With iPhone, your choices are .... how much memory do you want. Wow .. thanks for understanding exactly what I want in a phone Steve. But your ESP is off, I like using memory cards and having accessible batteries and keyboards.

    The rest of the crap you talked about being the 'strength' of Apple doesn't mean diddly squat. My HTC phone worked out of the box, always has. It has never frozen up. I've never been 'confused' about apps.

    And I like sorting out all the different phone options.

    In fact, I DEMAND to have the choice.

    Oh wait .. I did...

    I didn't pick an iPhone.
  • Plus +++ (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PortHaven (242123) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:02PM (#33953014) Homepage

    Yup....

    Steve Jobs is sucking too much mirror these days. iTunes synching experience = nightmare, nightmare, nightmare.

    Add in the 50 dropped calls I had this past week. And the result is my iPhone is barely working as a phone.

  • by AusIV (950840) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:12PM (#33953176)

    That's crap.

    If you buy an Android phone you get a good, straightforward user experience without having to do any kind of hacking on it. You have an easy to use app market with lots of apps which is loosely monitored to make sure it doesn't have malware (without having draconian yet poorly defined rules about what's acceptable and what's not). It comes with some apps that almost everyone is going to want, and has a simple mechanism for finding more apps to fit your needs. The experience you get with an out of the box Android phone is similar to what you get with an out of the box iPhone.

    If you're happy with that experience, you're in good shape. There's nothing else you need to do. With iOS, if you're unhappy with that experience you're pretty much out of luck. With Android, the operating system will step out of your way. You have the opportunity to screw things up, but you also have the ability to do things the phone manufacturer never imagined (or perhaps, doesn't approve of).

    I don't buy the argument that additional freedom is a bad thing.

  • by shutdown -p now (807394) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:18PM (#33953264) Journal

    If you use both a desktop and a laptop, things get even more complicated.

    One thing that totally pulled me off the whole "iOS experience" is when I configured my newly purchased iPad using my netbook, and synced up some stuff (e.g. books) with it that way.

    Side note - why I can't just drag & drop books onto it, and have to go around by first importing them into iTunes and then force-syncing them, is beyond me, but whatever...

    Now I plug iPad into my desktop PC, and it tells me to GTFO because it's already set up to sync with a different computer. Apparently, I can change it to sync with the desktop, but doing so will delete all books I've previously synced from the netbook. What the fuck?

    Overall, the whole scheme with iTunes seems very convoluted, and not just to me - my mother, for whom that iPad was actually bought, also finds it counter-intuitive, and she's very much an inexperienced user when it comes to anything related to computers. Still, she readily understood the concept of dragging documents to and from a USB stick with a mouse, and was thoroughly confused by the fact that she can't do the same with iPad (and that it doesn't even appear under "Computer" in the same way her music player and camera do).

  • by node 3 (115640) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:26PM (#33953376)

    As is typical in arguments like this, the truth is somewhere in between.

    I don't see how that makes any sense. I said iOS has, and continues to, outsell Android. There's no "in-between" about it.

    If analytic firms (and their summaries on Wikipedia) are to be believed (and for this I'm too lazy to do real follow up), then iOS is currently #2, but should be supplanted sometime in 2011 or 2012 (read paragraphs 3-4).

    I never made any claims about 2011/2012. But I will make one claim right now: it's absurd to place any faith in numbers like this for over a year from now. It's definitely possible for Android to surpass iOS, and if it does, I won't lie and pretend like it hasn't, like Slashdot Android fanboys are doing now.

    One reason such a claim is absurd is that a Verizon iPhone will significantly alter the market. So will the iPhone 5. So will an Android analog of an iPhone 5 (which is unlikely, but possible). So will a successful Android tablet (again, unlikely).

    What I'm saying is, I would be quite surprised, but don't find it impossible, for Android to begin to actually outsell iOS by 2012. I would be utterly amazed were it to also have a greater total market share by then. But only time will tell. As for now, what I wrote is 100% correct, no in-between about it.

    Slashdot has a raging hardon for Android. Understandable given its geek appeal, but it's clouding the judgement of presumably otherwise rational people. In April, the common notion was that iPad would sell great for a few weeks as all the Apple fanboys bought them, then it would peter out, become a dud, and by the fall, all the numerous Android tablets would dominate the market. Now, it's iOS is being outsold by Android, and consumers are choosing "freedom" because Steve Jobs wants to control everything you do on your phones and iPods/iPads.

  • by Anubis IV (1279820) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:57PM (#33953798)
    Really? So, when was the last time you were able to actually, I dunno, make some changes to the Android kernel and then install it back on your Evo without first voiding your warranty by jailbreaking it?
  • by leptons (891340) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @05:58PM (#33953822)
    Jobs was only trying to change the subject here. The subject was open vs. non-open platform. Jobs quickly turned the conversation to "Android is very fragmented", which does not speak about the topic of open vs. closed. It really shows how scared he is of Android, because he can't talk his way out of the fact that the iPhone is one of the most heavily restricted software/hardware platforms in the world. The conversation isn't really about 'fragmented vs. integrated' - users don't care, but they do care when they can't run software they want to run, and that is where Jobs is trying to change the subject.
  • Fragmentation... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Savage-Rabbit (308260) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @06:14PM (#33954028)

    Honestly, most of the "problems" with Android I actually consider to be strengths. Now the "fragmented" argument, yes, I can see where that can hurt in the long run, but then again, PC's are quite fragmented yet which has a larger hold after all these years, Apple or PC?

    PC fragmentation is in hardware, Android fragmentation is in Software, the OS it self. The dominant PC OS is Windows which, what ever else you can say about Microsoft, does an amazing job at providing a consistent (and IMHO crappy, but still consistent) software user experience across an amazing and bewildering array of often depressingly low quality PC hardware. Stability sometimes suffers mostly due to crappy hardware but the consistency of the user experience is the same. MS has also done a fairly decent job at backwards compatibility for software. It's not like the PC's from Lenovo ship with a different Desktop environment than the ones from Dell, Dell is dragging its feet releasing Service Pack X for their custom version of Windows with the result that you can't run half the apps you bought for use on your Lenovo computer on your new Dell and when Dell finally does release the update you are still shit out of luck because they changed the OS in some idiosyncratic way and some of the app developers don't support the Dell variant of Windows. Steve Jobs may be an arrogant prick sometimes but he has a point. Fragmentation is already happening and it will hurt Android in the long run if Google isn't very careful about keeping compatibility issues under control

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @06:15PM (#33954048)

    Good thing he's not pushing Judo-Christian mores on you then, right? Indications [sfgate.com] are he is Buddhist [blogspot.com], not Christian or Jewish. But I guess you feel better equating over-bearing, pushy salesmen with your biased preconceptions of a particular religious philosophy than making a comparison with his actual belief system.

  • by unix1 (1667411) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @06:41PM (#33954370)

    The tweet is FUD... He missed the most important part.. How do you install this on a Droid or most other
    Android devices?

    If you are compiling your own operating systems, maybe you should get a developer phone? You can install anything you want on those.

    You need to root it just like you do to jailbreak a iPhone.

    That's FUD. If your phone is locked down by your carrier or manufacturer, yes you'd need to root it. However, that's where similarities stop - i.e. try compiling your own version of iOS - that's right, you can't, it's NOT open source. That's the difference.

    Android devices are far from open.

    Most are locked down. Dev phones are not. Most that are locked down are easily rooted.

    The big difference, again, is the operating system, not a device. Anyone - i.e. any startup tech company - can take Android source code and start making and selling their own cool devices based on it. That's the advantage of it being open source.

  • by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @06:54PM (#33954516) Journal

    Puritanical, then. The "no porn on the App store" certainly isn't a Buddhist ideal.

  • by hey! (33014) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @07:03PM (#33954602) Homepage Journal

    In general, Apple pays a lot of attention to things that it wants to matter to you. If that's not the same as what actually matters to you, then things can get a little rough.

    For example, it's really easy to download the latest episode of the most popular TV series in iTunes, or to buy the latest top 40 hits. It's a lousy system for finding obscure stuff, even if its in the store; it keeps trying steer you back in the herd.

    It's not all that hard to get an iPod touch synching with Google Mail. It's impossible to get it to display entire track titles if they're too long. How could Apple have screwed up something so basic? I guess it's not part of the buying experience, it's not part of the selling experience so Apple doesn't care about a detail like that.

    If you accidentally turn lyrics display off, there is no manifest interface for turning them back on. You have turn to Google to figure out how.

    Not to rag on Apple's UI design, because they're head and shoulders over most of the competition; they're just far from where they ought to be, because despite Jobs legendary obsession with some details, he just doesn't care about others, and those don't get taken care of.

  • by fyngyrz (762201) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @07:05PM (#33954622) Homepage Journal

    Good thing he's not pushing Judo-Christian mores on you then, right?

    Wrong. Buddists don't have a single line in their patter that tells people outside their faith that sex is something to be ashamed of, hidden away, . That's really a Jewish / Christian problem, both the attitude itself, and the attempt to enforce it upon others.

  • by kaizokuace (1082079) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @07:36PM (#33954924)
    also, apple is a hypocrite. They insist that a Mac and PC are two different things entirely! To stay in line with that line of thinking Jobs should just refer to other phones as just phones and his is the iPhone.
  • by DaleCooper82 (860396) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @07:37PM (#33954942)

    The last time I looked at the market on 2.2, it showed everything in ~ USD amounts.

    Actually no, it shows prices in my local currency, according to current FX rate.

  • by indiechild (541156) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @10:08PM (#33956162)

    That's a curious example, seeing as how Nintendo's Wii has stomped all over the competition. Nintendo has some interesting parallels to Apple.

  • by jmottram08 (1886654) on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @10:46PM (#33956342)
    I recently did the exact same to my iPhone, and lost my pictures, music, and apps.

    /shrug Maybe there was some way to do it correctly, maybe if i had set it up to sync or something, but there was only the one button there, and I try my hardest to stay away from iTunes.

    What alarmed me about the process was how long it took to just restore a backup that didn't have any real data with it. It took over an hour to do what exactly? Send about a gig over USB 2.0? Why does it take SO long to not do a good job?

  • by leiz (35205) <`moc.onuj' `ta' `ziel'> on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @01:01AM (#33957240)

    I don't see any fear, uncertainty or doubt in the tweet.

    You have the freedom to buy an Android phone of your choice. Buy one that's not locked.

  • by Yetihehe (971185) on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @02:32AM (#33957676)
    The funny thing is Jobs says "Think different" and then he says "There is only one phone, different phones are bad".

Machines that have broken down will work perfectly when the repairman arrives.

Working...