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Education Microsoft Apple

Microsoft Losing Big To Apple On Campus 764

Posted by kdawson
from the apple-for-the-student dept.
destinyland writes "Apple is closing in on Microsoft's share of operating systems among the computers of incoming freshmen at the University of Virginia, confirming earlier reports of an ongoing trend. A yearly survey shows that among 3,156 freshman who own computers, Microsoft's share is just 56% (down 6%), with Apple's share rising to 43% (up 6%), continuing a six-year pattern. In 2004, it was Microsoft 89% vs. 8% for Apple. 'It seems likely that the Mac-using students will outnumber their Windows cousins this school year,' notes one technology blog, citing a new study showing that 70 percent of college freshman are choosing the Mac. Other interesting data from the Virginia study: In 1997, 26% of incoming freshmen said they didn't own a computer, a number which has now dropped to 0. Laptops now comprise 99% of the computer population. And Linux use has dropped from a high of 2.5% in 2004 to a rounding error this year."
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Microsoft Losing Big To Apple On Campus

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  • by ae1294 (1547521) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:01PM (#33175678) Journal

    Linux dropped to a rounding error? Really??

    Maybe those running Linux didn't want to goto jail for knowing how to use a hacker OS with that scary black screen and gray text mode or maybe this article is full of shit.

  • by jmcbain (1233044) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:04PM (#33175706)

    Linux use has dropped from a high of 2.5% in 2004 to a rounding error this year.

    Paraphrasing Principal Skinner: Why, there are no children using Linux, either! Am I so out of touch? (pauses to think) No, it's the children who are wrong.

  • by Andorin (1624303) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:05PM (#33175712)
    I agree. Call it fanboyism, but I do not think Linux is such a terrible operating system that it would see no use whatsoever, or practically so. Perhaps more colleges are requiring certain software that's Windows- and/or Mac-only. Perhaps there's been an increase in multimedia design students, for which I understand a Mac is best. But Linux is a pretty decent OS on its own merits, and it's free- something that ought to appeal to poor starving college students.
  • by lyinhart (1352173) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:11PM (#33175752)
    I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. This generation of Freshmen went through high school using iPods and iPhones, which serve as "gateway drugs" to Apple's PCs. Plus laptops are supposedly more popular than desktops, especially among college students and Apple's laptops tend to be highly rated in the media. Plus, there's that sweet deal of getting a free iPod with the purchase of an Apple laptop for education... I'm with George Burns from back in the day. Ah, to be 18 again.
  • by raving griff (1157645) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:13PM (#33175770)

    and it's free- something that ought to appeal to poor starving college students.

    Most college students purchase a computer before their freshman year and intend it to last throughout their entire four year program. That means they are still at home, still largely unphased by the costs of college, and living far more dependently on their parents' income than they will on campus.

  • Good thing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slasho81 (455509) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:21PM (#33175840)
    This is a good thing. Not because Apple is better than Microsoft but because the diversity of operating systems will lead to more portable designs of software which will eventually free us from specific OS dependency altogether.
  • by TheRecklessWanderer (929556) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:22PM (#33175854) Journal
    It amazes me that people can take one small piece of data and extrapolate so much from it. Incoming freshmen from one university. So what? If it really was news, it would be at all campuses around the US (or North America, or the world for that matter). Rage on MacBois
  • by commodore64_love (1445365) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:27PM (#33175880) Journal

    >>>That means they are still at home, still largely unphased by the costs of college

    Good point. A former teacher just asked my recommendation for her college-bound kid. I searched the advertisements and said, "Here's a nice HP laptop for $350, or you can get the better Toshiba with double the RAM for $450. Both hav the latest Windows 7 OS." Well my ex-teacher followed my advice but her kid had a fit and insisted she "had" to have a MacBook...... they ended-up spending $1500.

    Kids don't care if they drive their parents into bankruptcy. Or whether or not they can get Linux for free. They want what they want, regardless of cost. ----- (Oh and don't give me crap about Macs being better - the $1500 model actually had 1 GB less memory and 500 megahertz slower speed than the $450 Toshiba laptop.)

  • by Adrian Lopez (2615) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:35PM (#33175926) Homepage

    Apple sells image to its users, and image sells product to the young. Apple is cool (or whatever term kids use for "cool" these days), while PCs are not. Nevermind that Apple is even worse than Microsoft when it comes to keeping its users on a leash, because Apple computers are young and hip (or whatever terms are used for "young" and "hip" these days -- heh) and they aren't Microsoft.

    PS - I wonder how long it will take Apple to lock down the Mac platform as tightly as the iPhone platform.

  • by bsDaemon (87307) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:38PM (#33175954)

    UVA is a state school, but is sometimes called the "public Ivy" (Bobby and Ted Kennedy both went to law school there after Harvard). UVA and William & Marry cater more to the polo shirt and pearl set crowd than other state schools here like VCU, ODU, etc, which are more what one would consider "public".

    Everyone I know that went to UVA came from a fairly well-to-do background, or had insane amounts of financial aid. A couple of my friends had full-ride scholarships + stipends for undergraduate to UVA.

    I would be surprised if more than 10% of the students there couldn't afford a Mac if they wanted one.

  • by vcgodinich (1172985) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:43PM (#33175984)
    Yeah, those college freshmen at age 18 really went through the rocky years of personal computing with win95 and earlier. : / (no)

    College freshmen buy macs because they are hip and pretty. And they are hip (when is the last time you saw a PC in a movie?), and they are pretty.

    And i guess you missed the article last? week that detailed OSX losing market share this year.

  • by camperslo (704715) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:44PM (#33175990)

    Perhaps the headline should be "PC Vendors Losing Big To Apple On Campus".

    Surveys dealing with what kind of hardware people buy or plan to buy may not even ask what OS will be used, or if more than one OS will be installed. Certainly there are some people using Macs with more than one OS, but the share totals don't add up to more than 100% proving my point.

    I think if a little effort were made to educate students to some of the advantages of Linux, many of those with PCs would at least add it to not be totally dead in the water if/when malware kills Windows. Linux certainly could be useful to more people than have it installed already, whatever the numbers. What's the best way to get the message to students?

  • by commodore64_love (1445365) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:46PM (#33176000) Journal

    I'm not lying but maybe the teacher was - SHE'S the one who said it cost her $1500.

    The cheapest MacBook is still $1000..... still a hell of a lot more than $350 or $450 for the WIN7 machine. Way overpriced. Why buy an Acura when a Honda is just as good (and made by the same company besides)?

  • by vcgodinich (1172985) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @05:47PM (#33176008)
    Great! So owning a Mac not only makes me better at high level computer work (not just Mac repair), but it ALSO makes me better an UNIX AND Windows at the same time! What a magical product.
  • by Delarth799 (1839672) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:09PM (#33176154)
    Interesting, I spend $500 on a laptop about 3 years ago and it hasn't broken and runs great, but I guess as a thinking adult I know how to actual take care of my property.
  • by casings (257363) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:11PM (#33176180)

    Proficiency in OSX does not equate to proficiency with Unix.

    I can guarantee the vast majority of OSX users have no idea that it is based on unix.

  • Re:Now we wait (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fyngyrz (762201) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:13PM (#33176200) Homepage Journal

    I'm sure the majority of COBOL and FORTRAN programmers back in the '70s and '80s are still alive today, after all...

    Oh, we're alive, all right, but as to how many of us have decent tech jobs currently... that's something else. We cost more to insure, we tend to be less "hip", and we don't have the energy levels of a 20-year old. Nor are we particularly enthused about working more than a normal workday. And these are the (essentially correct) assumptions us "oldies" face when applying for any job. There's not much need to adapt if you can't get hired, you know.

  • by MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) * <myfirstnameispaul@gmail.com> on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:20PM (#33176236) Homepage Journal

    The only reason the colleges can even get away with that is because of the interest-free loans and other moneys that the students don't have to actually work for. My bet is that once they're out on their own, having to pay their own bills, whatever the perceived value-add that Apple has will be as obsolete as their college computers.

  • by Graymalkin (13732) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:22PM (#33176252)

    The $450-range Toshibas are pieces of shit. The 15" laptops have horrible ergonomics and build quality. They feel like they're going to fall apart if you move them around too much and the keyboards are off-center from the screen which makes them horribly uncomfortable to type on. The number pad they so "thoughtfully" include isn't used nearly enough to make up for the ridiculous ergonomics. Even the smaller laptops are bulky and don't fit well in backpacks or messenger bags. The power supplies are monsters and have very fragile feeling DC connectors. If you tilt your laptop back a little too far you're likely to snap the damn thing off in the plug. They're also really unbalanced so tilting your screen back too far will cause your laptop to topple backwards.

    You can (and obviously will) naysay Mac laptops but at least some thought went into their industrial design. They fit neatly into bags because they don't have oddly shaped bottom panels that catch on things. The MagSafe adapter has saved me from destroying my computer on a number of occasions, and they go to sleep and then wake up from sleep very quickly. I'll spend the extra money to get a laptop with features that actually make it nice to use. Bullet point features like a faster CPU or RAM don't mean a whole lot when I'm putting it into or pulling it out of a bag a hundred times a week.

    The justification would be the same as for the nicer car, if the car feels nice and has better fit and finish it's probably worth the extra money. You interact with the fit and finish every single second you're using the thing. If it's build cheaply you feel it every time you touch it. I'll get a car with power windows and locks so I don't have to check every door handle when I get out like a rube to make sure they're all locked. I can roll all the windows down at once when it's been sitting in the sun so I don't need to crank the AC when I get in it. I'll get the more comfortable seat that's easier to adjust because I sit in it every single day.

  • by Nemyst (1383049) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:31PM (#33176294) Homepage
    Where are my mod points when I need them? Mod parent up!
  • by index0 (1868500) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:34PM (#33176314)
    "It amazes me that people can take one small piece of data and extrapolate so much from it." This is called a survey or statistics. "If it really was news, it would be at all campuses around the US (or North America, or the world for that matter)." This is called a census and takes much more work.
  • by fnj (64210) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:37PM (#33176328)

    Stop calling them either liars or idiots. You are the one who is way off. Take a Macbook, expand it from 2GB to 4GB, change the 250GB drive to 500GB, add iWork, add Microsoft Office home and student edition, and add Applecare because now you've got quite a lot riding on a measly 1 year warranty. You're looking at $1676.95. And that's without Aperture, Logic Express, Final Cut, Filemaker, no DVI adapter, and no airline adapter. Just that stuff will take you up to $2491.90, and that's the CHEAP version of Filemaker.

    So, $1500.00 is easily reached with the bottom of the line Macbook, even with a 15% discount.

  • Re:Good thing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BeardedChimp (1416531) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:41PM (#33176362)
    While at the same time leading to a decrease in the diversity of hardware manufacturers. In my opinion this outweighs the good.
  • by Ironhandx (1762146) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:42PM (#33176368)

    Excuse you?

    The $450 toshiba laptops are fine and half the models in that range come without a keypad.

    On the other hand I prefer my $550 lenovo. They did include a keypad but with thin keys, making the keyboard about normal sized since the screen is 16:9, which I prefer anyways and have on all of my desktops. I could have gotten a $400 lenovo or toshiba but I wanted a video chip that didn't have intel written on it.

    The three macbooks I've used on the other hand I can't stand, the keys all have that weird feeling like theres already a fine powder spilled on them. Other than that, which admittedly is a personal pet peeve and probably doesn't apply ot a lot of other people, they're fine ergonomically, but by no means far superior to any other laptop.

    Also they should check the numbers on how many people buy a mac going into college, realize its an expensive piece of shit after a year(Compatibility? Whats that?) and have to go buy a real computer anyways. I personally know 3 people that have "had to have" one and were immediately disgusted that they had spent so much money on something that offered very little extra and was actually worse in some cases. Of those people 1 admits it freely and 2 give you a strange look and espouse the virtues of the mac while already having admitted they won't buy another one.

  • And when Apple has a decent market share (which is what you're helping them achieve), the security holes will get exploited.

    Okay, look, I'm sick and tired of this argument. Market share doesn't mean shit, installed base does-- malware authors are not looking at market share reports and saying, "Oh, if only Apple had x%, I would SO write for OS X!" The installed base of OS X today dwarfs that of the classic Mac OS that existed in the 90s, back when Apple had ~15% market share. Yet malware was quite a bit more of a problem in the classic Mac OS days than it has been in the OS X era.

    It was worth people's trouble to write malware for an OS that had several million fewer machines running it back then, but it's not worth their time today for an OS that has a much larger user population? Care to try to explain that?

    ~Philly

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:57PM (#33176460)

    Congratulations on missing the point. He meant that if you use a Mac or a Linux machine, you've probably already used a Windows machine, so you have experience with both Windows and your other OS.

    WINDOWS && (LINUX || MAC)

  • by Arkham (10779) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @06:59PM (#33176472)

    Why buy an Acura when a Honda is just as good (and made by the same company besides)?

    This is telling. I'd buy the Acura. Heck, I drive a Lexus instead of a Toyota. They may be made by the same company, but they aren't the same car. The noise suppression alone is worth the difference in cost, but there are a dozen other reasons to choose the Lexus too, including resale value, dealer support, complementary car if you ever need warranty service, etc.

    It all comes down to what you value. If you value price above all else, you're not the target audience for a Mac. If you care about elegance, simplicity, compatibility, and longevity, Macs are not a bad deal.

  • by Gregg M (2076) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:06PM (#33176518) Homepage
    Why buy an Acura when a Honda is just as good

    Why buy a Mustang when you can buy a Fiesta from the same company? Because they're different!

    Please don't insult us by saying that Win7 is just as good as OSX. The hardware is better and the software is better. I drive a Accord but won't begrudge you if you like something less plain. A $350 netbook can't run AutoCAD or Photoshop just as well as a i7.

  • by bonch (38532) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:13PM (#33176570)

    You sound like the guy with his arms crossed who's too cool for the room, bashing something because it's popular. Other than Apple selling an image, 100% of your post was baseless flamebait. You sound like an angry old dinosaur ("whatever term kids use for 'cool' these days").

    10 years ago, Linux was the hip, cool thing too, especially around these parts. Everyone was waiting for the floodgates of mass Linux adoption on the desktop--which never happened because Apple stole that thunder with OS X and the iPod. Perhaps there's some lingering bitterness because of that.

  • by Wain13001 (1119071) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:24PM (#33176634)

    riiiiight....cause no Mac machine has ever had a manufacturing flaw, or problems related to cost-cutting measures. All the other machines fail at least 5 times a year and the Mac computers run flawlessly.

    Nobody ever has to bring their Macbook to the Apple store because of optical drive failures, broken internal video cables, or hard drive failures. Gosh, Apple's NEVER been on the ass-end of a class action lawsuit for not supporting their hardware flaws and pretending they don't exist!

    It's only those guys who buy cheap PC hardware who have to hang out with the Geek Squad all day or week.

    Only Windows 7 barfs and never MacOS, that's why They took FORCE QUIT off the main drop down menu right? (Oh wait....hey!)

    This is the kind of complete hyperbolic drivel that makes people who actually work with a wide variety of computers on a daily basis hate Mac fanboys.

    I wish there were a planet that actually existed that was as beautiful as the one you fantasize that you live in...it'd be nice for me as an IT worker to have such an easier job where we could all get Macs and save fortunes and hours of time because they're perfect.

  • free (Score:4, Insightful)

    by zogger (617870) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:28PM (#33176662) Homepage Journal

    Most people don't care about "free" when all they see are computers for sale that come with the "free" operating system already installed. Very few people really buy a barebones computer and then go pay retail or otherwise acquire some OS. All they see is a bundled price, this has been industry standard for like forever, so that is how it goes. A starving student will buy used, and THAT will come with a "free" operating system on it.

    Yes, it SHOULD have been made a requirement at the retail level ages ago to SHOW the software cost in the total bill, or to force these guys to offer alternatives, but the government didn't care, people didn't seem to care, so there ya go. It's just what comes with the machine, so the software is "free enough" for people.

    And for that matter, very few people build their own desktops, and when it comes to laptops, that falls way way down to insignificant levels, even within the hard core tech savvy crowd. They may wipe the disk and install something else, but the incidence of barebones laptops or build from scratch laptops is microscopic in terms of numbers. It is possible, just very unlikely.

    So "free" or Free never enters the picture for most people. Just the way it is.

    And that deal with Dell and Canonical..from day one you could see Dell wasn't sincere about it, it was a sop or something, just to get them shutup and to "prove" to the shareholders or whatever that "linux doesn't sell" so they could eventually abandon the idea and have it go away.. They had "dell recommends windows..yada yada" on top of the pages for the few models with ubuntu they were selling! I mean, WTF, I saw that and thought "no way am I ever buying from them for being such dickheads about it". And there was no price savings, and most models you couldn't get, and you had to hunt to even find those. It was a con from day one. Ya, they would sell you one, but their effort was some sort of con, a half assed attempt designed to fail. That's my opinion of course, can't prove it, but recommending windows on top of the linux computers page is rather glaring evidence that they never were sincere about the effort.

    The fix has been in for a long long time now. Wintel on your boxes, or now Apple has such good cred with phones and whatnot they are using that to boost sales with their other offerings, and free operating systems are relegated to mostly server use and the one dude out of a thousand-that's it, one in a thousand maybe- who geeks out with the hardware. And even there the free software enthusiasts are dwarfed by just the gamers. Heck, most hardware geeking that kids do revolves around video games, I don't think this can be disputed, so that means Windows.

    It looked for awhile that netbooks might provide the big breakthrough, but that is lost now as well, back to mostly windows on those things from the manufacturers.

    I like linux just swell, use it exclusively. never tried any of the BSDs but I assume they work fine as well. so now you have to ask the question, why having totally free stuff doesn't work, and the only credible answer is, it isn't a real mainstream business, and there is no credible mainstream retail level business to be made from it. As such, it will continue to exist, but at low levels and "hidden" like in various gadgets with embedded systems, android phones, etc. But mainstreet-mainstream desktops and laptops, DOA. When Free and free doesn't work, it is no longer much of a viable business model, if it ever was to begin with.

    Now if someone with really DEEP pockets wanted to out canonical canonical, and do a "stack", hardware plus guaranteed to work free software offering (just offering the software is not a real business model with any hope), and then advertised the snot out of it nation wide/globally..perhaps.

    Short of that, small mom and pop "linux installed" sales, and a few enthusiasts, and that's it. And half the enthusiasts (right here on slashdot for one example) still use windows and a

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:31PM (#33176680)

    Nevermind that Apple is even worse than Microsoft when it comes to keeping its users on a leash

    Maybe if you were comparing the iPhone to something like Android, but the comparison isn't even valid in the smartphone world because Microsoft is adopting the same walled-garden strategy for their new phones that Apple has been using. Otherwise, I don't recall the Mac platform being any more locked down than Windows and while it's not as open as Linux, a lot more of it has been open sourced than Windows.

    Insightful for a horrible troll post that ends with baseless speculation about how Apple will lock down the Mac? Both you and whoever moderated you need to lay off the kool-aid.

  • by ceoyoyo (59147) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:33PM (#33176686)

    Right. Apple provides installed access to the UNIX terminal underlying the OS, includes an X server on the install DVD so you can run most (free) UNIX software with a simple recompile, and also puts their development suite, including full documentation, on the install DVD so you can do that recompile, or write some apps of your own.

    Very locked down.

  • by Low Ranked Craig (1327799) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:39PM (#33176708)

    I've done countless comparisons of Macs to comparable Lenovo's, Dells, HPs, etc. For comparably equivalent machines, (sames size LED backlit IPS panel, same HD size and speed, same bus, memory, processor, bluetooth, camera, etc, etc) with comparable software (that generally means Win 7 Home Ultimate) Macs are, generally, 10% to 20% more, and not way overpriced.

    Generally the Mac will have less ports, but has as compensation the large multi-touch track pad, the smaller mag safe power adapters, and that ultra-rigid unibody design.

    I don't consider it overpriced, but it may be over spec'd.

    I know the average Mac user doesn't actually know how to use a computer

    as for this piece of GP AC weaksauce, the average Windows user doesn't know anymore about using a computer than the average Mac user. That's because they're, uh, average users. The person who actually knows how to really use a computer is in reality pretty rare - most people just learn (barely) how to use the software they need and do things by rote, and this isn't limited to Mac users. I see people double-clicking links in IE all the time...

  • by spire3661 (1038968) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:51PM (#33176778) Journal
    He bought a product knowing full well that it wasnt supported on his OS and somehow thats Apple's fault? I really like the idea of Linux and its great for experimental stuff, servers and basic computing. But any time you try to interact with commercial software/hardware you are going to run into this issue, period. Linux will never be commercially viable in this age of locking up content and then reselling it. Now im no fan of Itunes or its overbearing nature, but I wouldn't bitch about it not working on something that is quite clearly not supported. Linux is not, nor will it ever be fully compatible with most commercial software due to its open nature.
  • by Pinckney (1098477) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @07:54PM (#33176796)

    There are a LOT of programs at most universities that require you to buy a Mac.

    I'm currently a college Junior and have never encountered this. What programs require a Mac, and why?

  • by Max Rool (552634) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @08:02PM (#33176840)
    These are just isolated statistics from one institution and in no means representative of a whole country or the whole world for that matter, but interesting none the less. As a long time mac user (25 years ago I bought my first mac and I still use mac today) a long time windows user (2001 I bought my first windows machine and I still use windows everyday) and long time linux user (circa 1997 I built my first linux server (RH5.something) and I still use both FC13 and Ubuntu 10 ). As a java web app developer my main dev machine in the work place runs FC13. It replaces an Win XP box that i have dev'ed with for the last 3 years. At home for private projects my machine is a Mac Pro. I only mention these facts to add some cred to my next statement. I hate all of the OSes for differing reasons. They all suck. They all have their individual issues that get in my way as I try and work in my chosen profession. As a long time /. reader, I am continually amazed at the amount of FUD spread (by particularly /. posters about, who in my view should know better) about the various OS'es. Don't get me wrong, I love the jibing and the fanboi accusations but, OMG please at least check your facts before hitting your keyboards. If one where to survey my immediate family, I mean my brothers, my sister my nieces my nephews, my own children even, (over 10 people) the only one in my family that uses a windows PC in exclusion to any other OS, is my 80 year old father. The rest all use macs as either their main computer or only computer. This does not mean that this is typical of a world wide trend, it is just a trend within my family.
  • by Antisyzygy (1495469) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @08:07PM (#33176888)
    The MagSafe adapter has saved me from destroying my computer on a number of occasions If you were more careful in your movements it would be irrelevant. The Apples are not worth the extra money. You can get cheaper computers with similar or better ergonomics and better hardware. The magnetic power cable is a pretty cool feature, but seriously, if you just take an extra 2 seconds to handle yourself you will either arrange the power cable so you as well as others can't trip over it, or you will watch where you step. Granted, people could always trip over your cable without any fault of your own, but at that rate, anyone could always come over and spill stuff on your laptop as well. Moot point.
  • by gozu (541069) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @08:27PM (#33177010) Journal

    As a mac user, i must say the GP makes a good point and point out that the first 2 methods you mention won't show pictures in full screen and are thus crappy. The 3rd one is not intuitive. How would someone know this wouldn't open dozens or hundreds of preview windows?

    A 4th solution is to import all the pictures into iPhoto but it's needlessly time and disk consuming for the purpose stated.

    Apple needs to fix this. That is all.

  • by ChrisMP1 (1130781) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @08:31PM (#33177040)
    Wow. "Please die"? I know social graces are lost on many Slashdot readers, but really? You could take etiquette lessons from Mr. Turnip Guy a couple posts up.
  • by LodCrappo (705968) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @09:37PM (#33177354) Homepage

    Wouldn't lack of experience with Windows be a detriment to someone looking for employment in the business world, where Windows runs on well over 90% of all computers? I realize you can run Windows on a Mac, and many people do, but that seems like an expensive approach to gaining these valuable skills.

  • by jcr (53032) <jcr@@@mac...com> on Saturday August 07, 2010 @10:10PM (#33177516) Journal

    cause no Mac machine has ever had a manufacturing flaw,

    who ever said that? Hardware failures are just far more rare for Apple products than they are for the flimsy machines that everybody in the windows market makes.

    This is the kind of complete hyperbolic drivel

    Yes, it is. Why don't you knock it off?

    -jcr

  • by atlasdropperofworlds (888683) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @10:36PM (#33177600)

    Macs aren't the only systems with good fit and finish. I opted for, of all things, an AlienWare m17x. For the hardware I received, I paid less than the equivalently equipped macbook pro ~ about $300 less. Not only that, but I don't need a 'mini display port to dual DVI' cable just to connect it to a monitor or two, which saved me another $100.

    I don't think people realize this, but when you buy a Macbook, you have to buy $50-$150 worth of extra bits to make it usable.

    Sure, it's a gaming laptop, but for $400 (+$100 because I don't need extra bits) less than the macbook pro, it's faster, has better video, more RAM, and 2 500 GD HDDs in RAID 1. It complies my code faster (VS 2010 vs xcode ~ may not be apples to apples but still...), it runs games, and it actually looks quite sharp.

    I can also replace the battery.

    For the record, I have a macbook pro development target as well, but it never goes out of my office. I understand why people like the Mac, I just can't understand why they actually think it's good value.

  • by Pokey.Clyde (1322667) on Saturday August 07, 2010 @11:00PM (#33177702)
    That, my friends, is a load of horseshit. You can buy a comparable Windows/Linux machine for about half that of a Macbook. If you don't have your head up your ass, and half-way paid attention during your intro to computers course in high school, you'll have no more problems with one over the other.
  • by drinkypoo (153816) <martin.espinoza@gmail.com> on Saturday August 07, 2010 @11:51PM (#33177948) Homepage Journal

    So those kids that picket everytime their tuition bills go up (for example here at US Berkeley) are buyng macintoshes instead of the more affordable PCs? Why, how can this be? To hear them rant on and on everytime tuition increases you'd think they were down to their last nickle

    1) Nickel. Time for you to go back to school, which obviously didn't take. Hint: the red squiggly line under your fuckups is for YOUR information
    2) They SHOULD be protesting increasing tuition, since they are not receiving a better education, and are yet being charged more tuition. If anything, they are indeed receiving an inferior education to what has been available in the past.

  • by slimjim8094 (941042) <slashdot3@justconnected . n et> on Saturday August 07, 2010 @11:52PM (#33177956)

    Parent is either stupid or a troll. I don't care which.

    Look, regardless of what you think about Macs and PCs, how many *average* PC users keep a computer more than 5 years and are satisfied with it? How about Mac users? I don't know about you, but in my sample group, half the Macs I know of acquaintances having are several years old. It never occurs to them to replace it.

    Contrast that with the PC users I know, who end up buying a brand new computer every 2-3 years since 'it's broken'. Now I know it just needs a reformat to be good as new, but they don't.

    Average non-technical liberal arts major hears "Our 5 year old Macs are working great!" and "My Windows machine crapped out on me in two years" and realizes, unlike you, that the Mac is at worst two and a half times the cost of the Windows machine. So, they make a prudent investment and buy a Mac - security, simplicity, and quality all come free. So, they made the sound financial choice *without considering the time most people lose screwing around with a PC for 5 years*

    When you're used car shopping do you pick the 1989 Geo Metro with 200k miles on the transmission for $300 over the 2002 Honda with 80k for $3000? Sure, at first you'll save money - but not for long...

  • by bigstrat2003 (1058574) * on Sunday August 08, 2010 @12:21AM (#33178070)

    Please don't insult us by saying that Win7 is just as good as OSX.

    Please don't insult Windows by claiming that OSX is anywhere near as good as it, let alone better than it.

    The hardware is better and the software is better.

    The hardware is the same, but costs more (inexplicably). The software is worse. Neither of those is a compelling reason to choose a brand. In fact, they are the compelling reasons that keep me away.

  • by bigstrat2003 (1058574) * on Sunday August 08, 2010 @12:28AM (#33178092)

    And there is a very important thing that Windows users love to deny, but I witness each and every day: The typical Windows machine is constantly in need of attention for malware, driver problems, and so forth. Macs... aren't. You can debate the reasons until the sun goes down, but it doesn't change the fact that a Mac requires a lot less maintainance from its owner.

    That only holds true if the problem is not the owner. In the majority of cases, that is the problem. Because I don't click yes on every link I see offering me free porn, or to enlarge my penis, or to download pink kitty icons, I don't (as a rule) have problems with malware. Your other reason, drivers, is complete bullshit. My drivers got installed once. When the OS was installed. On my machine I did it (since I installed the OS), on the average user's machine it would be done by the manufacturer... but still only necessary once.

    I have also had the job of supporting Mac users when I worked in the IT dept at college. Quite the contrary to what you claim, they needed just as much attention as the PC users... because the problem was the users, not what OS they used.

  • by assertation (1255714) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @12:30AM (#33178098)

    Your post can be summed up in one line:

    Computer *USERS* want the least amount of hassles to get the job done.

    That is something many of the computer *ENTHUSIASTS* in the FOSS community do not understand, can't keep up with or refuse to accept, finding the idea offensive. That is why Linux is barely on the map ( I am and have been a linux user for 10 years ).

    Microsoft won its market share on price for "good enough" quality versus excellent quality at a stiffer price.

    That was a long time ago. As the article shows, computer use has been mainstream for a while and as with luggage it has finally sunk in that paying a little bit more goes a long way in avoiding hassles. Microsoft hasn't fully seen and accepted this yet. That is partially why they are losing ground to younger people.

  • Compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ngarrang (1023425) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @12:32AM (#33178112) Journal

    There is more to measuring compatibility than naming off an office productivity app. Far more insidious is the business apps that run local and have no Mac or Linux counter part. These apps are legion, because those corporations aren't software companies, so they write one version...for Windows. Where I work, the computing landscape is littered with these apps. For accounting. For sales. For engineering. For manufacturing. I have to support every MS OS in one form or another because of this. A one-off app here for Win95, another there written for DOS. A normal day in the office for me.

    Ultimately, the compatibility these kids are missing out on in the name of coolness is that they are unprepared for how business function computer-wise. I have to deal with these "Apple Idiots" on a regular basis who are so enamored with the "Apple Way", but have zero clue that 99% of the business apps out there, only run on Windows.

    "But, you could run them under emulation!"

    Why? Why, when I could just run actual Windows and reduce my support complexity?

    Check out the list of the top CAD/CAE/CAM packages and what OS they support. Windows. Windows. Windows. Windows. Etc.

    If all you do is word processing, some personal spreadsheets and browse the internet, have your Mac. You've just paid far more money for a machine than you needed to, and deserve what you get.

    Besides, real geeks have one of everything and never settle for just one system. THAT is so yesterday. "Oh, you only own a mac? That is so sad."

  • by LihTox (754597) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @01:14AM (#33178248)

    I only wondered how long it might take Apple to lock it down so it can only run software that's been approved by Apple.

    Sheer speculation: laptops are very different from phones. Given Apple's move to the Intel architecture and the introduction of Boot Camp, their computer division is even moving away from lockdown, since you're not even locked into using their OS anymore.

    As for being locked down in general, do please point me to non-Apple hardware that will run Mac OS X without first having to defeat the operating system's protections against running it on non-Apple hardware.

    That's also a different issue: software lockdown instead of hardware lockdown.

  • by davebaum (653977) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @02:49AM (#33178616)

    You might want to look at Apple's Q3 results: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html [apple.com]

    I don't think Apple breaks down revenue by product type, but they sold 3.47M macs, 8.4M iPhones, 9.41M iPods during the quarter. My guess is that the macs are their highest margin products, but even if margins were the same across the board the price point of a mac is much higher than the other products. Because of this, it is likely that macs are generating at least a third of Apple's hardware revenue and profits. They aren't about to walk away from a business that is generating billions of dollars per year in profit.

  • by rtb61 (674572) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @04:25AM (#33178908) Homepage

    Afraid I have to be a bit tough on that one, "student employees of ITC, known as Computing Advisors (CAs), a group of first-year students hired to advise and assist their peers with computing", the tough world of statistics. So the students that require the greatest assistance in computer use are using either Windows or Apple, students using Linux require very little assistance and that's down to rounding error area.

    So 43% of computer assistance requests are made by students that use apple computers (regardless of the number of students actually using apple computers) while 55% of assistance requests and made by students using windows computer and approximately 0% of assistance request are made by students using Linux . The message here want to save money in your university IT department hire students that using Linux, "the Linux machine : zero defects".

  • by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @08:23AM (#33179552)

    They even tried to help me with an issue connecting with WPA - which ultimately is a Linux problem not their network's.

    That's funny, I am on a WPA connection right now, and my university uses enterprise WPA, which my Fedora laptop has no issue with at all.

    Basically it's no problem and I suspect a lot of people who run Linux like me are realizing how good MBPs are and so are using them as school computers. You don't want to run into problems with Linux right when you need your computer for something important, and OS X is the most stable platform for that while also being very geek friendly.

    You know, some of us consider proprietary software to be un-friendly, and avoid Mac OS X for the same reason we avoid Windows.

  • by benmhall (9092) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @08:40AM (#33179612) Homepage Journal

    OK, I accept your challenge: The HP EliteBook line. (Which are never in stock at Best Buy/Future Shop.)

    I'm typing this on a three year old HP 2710p which has since become the 2740p. It's an extremely tough 3.6lb machine with a lovely screen and stylus support, trackpad and trackpoint, a light (like the ThinkPad lights). The battery is rated for 5:30, up to 11 with an optional slice. It can take a very slim dock for extra USB, DVD, video, etc. The 2740p has both touch and stylus support and can be configured with Core i5 CPUs or ULV options, depending on your needs. They have the best keyboard I've ever used, they come with three year warranties as standard options, and they are lovely to work on. (I've upgraded HD and RAM on mine.)

    I own it and a MacBook. It is by far my preferred laptop. The screen works well outside, it's sturdier, and it runs Linux brilliantly.

    However, on balance, I completely agree with your assessment. Almost all PC hardware is junk. Apple doesn't make many types of machines but they are all of very high quality, they run Windows (and usually Linux) very well, they have stellar battery life, and they are the same price as decent PC laptops that can't run Mac OS.

    I recommend Macs a lot at work. Why not? Don't like MacOS? No problem. I prefer my HP EliteBook but they're a pain to buy in town. I can send people to a half-dozen different stores in town that sell the full line of Apple laptops. As a bonus, the hardware is well understood and I might not have to support Windows! Easy decision for me. Plus, in Canada, Apple and Dell seem to be the only two companies that haven't switched over to bi-lingual keyboards with odd layouts.

    It's a sorry state at the moment. Microsoft as monopolist was bad. Mac OS is a lovely OS and Apple makes nice hardware. Still, as companies go, Apple aren't great to deal with. I'm happy to see that MS has been unseated as the untouchable monopolist but I have to think that it will be worse if Apple finds itself in a similar position.

    Here's hoping the competition will improve. Linux does keep improving steadily. If it could emerge as a reasonable competitor and keep things even, that would be my preferred outcome. Time, development, and consumer decisions will tell.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 08, 2010 @11:04AM (#33180282)

    because my first-hand experience contradicts your position.

    What a stupid way to argue statistics. Jesus, you apple cheerleaders do really have a defective brain. Because my first-hand experience tells me that.

  • by Nautical Insanity (1190003) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @11:44AM (#33180542)

    Only Windows 7 barfs and never MacOS, that's why They took FORCE QUIT off the main drop down menu right? (Oh wait....hey!)

    Apple can't guarantee the quality of the applications you run on your mac. The force quit is there when an application hangs. Blaming Apple for putting a force quit option in their OS is like blaming Lexus for putting air bags in their cars because with all the other safety features a Lexus has, it's uncrashable!

    If you're going to bash on Apple for karma, at least find valid talking points.

  • by Jeremi (14640) on Sunday August 08, 2010 @12:10PM (#33180698) Homepage

    What do you think is going to happen now that OSX is reaching a sizeable portion of the market ?

    Maybe it will get hit by viruses... or maybe it won't. I can't predict the future, and neither can you. I do note that the article you linked to is dated 2006... four years have passed since it was written, and the virus apocalypse has yet to arrive for Macs.

    Oh, and guess what's going to happen to your shiny computer when you start installing third party software to try and fix the problem

    Hmmm... the second link is titled "Mac OS X anti-virus software: More trouble than it's worth".... i.e. it's do-nothing software at the moment, because it has very little to protect against.

    Sorry you can't say that OSX antivirus is "not getting viruses in the first place".

    Sure I can, because that is currently the case: OSX machines simply aren't being attacked by viruses. It's like living in Argentina during World War II. The country's defenses may or may not be adequate to hold off the Nazis, but unless and until the country is actually attacked, it's not a problem for anyone. Yes, a virus could break out tomorrow that causes all kinds of problems for Mac users... but that's true of any OS. In the meantime it's silly to demand to run anti-virus software when the number of viruses is so small that the base OS can keep up with them by itself.

IF I HAD A MINE SHAFT, I don't think I would just abandon it. There's got to be a better way. -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

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