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Nokia and RIM Respond To Apple's Antenna Claims 514

Posted by timothy
from the pot-v-kettle-round-xixiivii dept.
awyeah writes "In response to Apple's press conference, where videos of a few devices were shown losing signal bars with a tight grip, RIM and Nokia have both taken shots at Apple. RIM's co-CEOs say that Apple's claims 'appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation.' Meanwhile, Nokia, noting that they are pioneers in antenna design and were the first company to bring to market a phone with an internal antenna, prioritizes 'antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict.'"
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Nokia and RIM Respond To Apple's Antenna Claims

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  • Re:Steve and his FUD (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Wingsy (761354) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:19PM (#32938638)
    He left it out because ATT told him to. That information is confidential to ATT, so how can you blame Steve for not telling you? (You're good at your game too.)
  • by diegocg (1680514) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:20PM (#32938640)

    It seems they are giving vague answers instead of answering the real question. Steve Jobs played videos [apple.com] where you can see clearly how Blackberrys lose signal depending how you hold them. Are the videos true? If they are, how must I hold a Blackberry to avoid losing signal? If they aren't true, why RIM isn't suing Apple? That is the question I want to see answered.

  • by omar.sahal (687649) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:28PM (#32938692) Homepage Journal

    Meanwhile, Nokia, noting that they are pioneers in antenna design and were the first company to bring to market a phone with an internal antenna, prioritizes 'antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict.'"

    Och! This hits the nail on the head. The original Apple Macintosh used to over heat because it did not have a fan! Why did it not have a fan, because Jobs wanted a quiet machine.
    To be far though the case was designed to keep the machine cool and it worked, but there was a problem with the hardware running hotter than it should. Even the circuit board/mother board (don't flame me if I got the terminology wrong I'm no computer engineer) had to be redesigned to look pretty because Jobs wanted it that way. The man has form!

  • HTC Benelux response (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Animaether (411575) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:31PM (#32938722) Journal

    Mark Moons of HTC Benelux posted his response to twitter.
    source: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/68622/mobieltjesmakers-reageren-fel-op-antennevergelijking-van-apple.html [tweakers.net]
    ( the comment threads there are a lovely Apple vs The World whinefest )

    Translated (Google fails due to colloquial word usage)
    "Is Jobs yacking about the reception on competing devices to justify his own design error? I must seeing it wrong*"
    ( * "I must be misinterpreting", though that would typically be written as "Ik zal het wel verkeerd begrijpen")
    http://twitter.com/markmoons/status/18702074270 [twitter.com]

    "....ok, stopped following that fruitlet's sobstory.... got better things to do... he's denigrating the industry."
    http://twitter.com/markmoons/status/18702370046 [twitter.com]

  • damage controle (Score:4, Interesting)

    by luther349 (645380) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:32PM (#32938730)
    apple is in damage control mode. as nokia said trying to shift the damage away from there defective phone. i have a old original blackberry and it works in spots the iphone does not. seems odd a 10 year old smart phone smokes your supposed new design.
  • one theory (Score:2, Interesting)

    by z-j-y (1056250) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:32PM (#32938732)

    one theory says that since iPhone4 makes antenna design, especially the gap, so prominent, it is far easier for people to correlate signal quality with hand position.

    on other phones, even if the same problem exists, it is very difficult for people to discover, because the antenna is internal. drop of signal is so common, you just won't think too much about it.

    the lesson is, if you have a design flaw, obfuscate it so that people can't easily identify the cause.

  • Re:PR versus PR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RedK (112790) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:43PM (#32938806)
    Where do you get that people prefer the iPhone ? RIM have a bigger marketshare in the smartphone sector than Apple does.
  • by lullabud (679893) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @04:48PM (#32938836) Homepage

    No, you don't need to use a case to make a call with a blackberry, but you do have to use a case if you want to conveniently prevent somebody from making a call from their pocket with one. Historically, Blackberries have had no auto-lock timer, but required being put into the case or hitting a key combination in order to lock the device. I've gotten countless pocket calls from my boss and other folks on my team at work, sometimes several in a row, sometimes during heated discussions that had sensitive company information as the topic. I'm not sure if it's still this way since my team entirely abandoned Blackberry, but if they haven't fixed the software then they have an outstanding problem of their own that could have significantly more potential damage.

    People like me who hate phone cases are screwed either way.

  • Re:Video Proof (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Moridineas (213502) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @05:03PM (#32938940) Journal

    Bullshit. I am putting my hand on that spot and NOTHING HAPPENS. Problem? No, I don't see it. Maybe some people do, but it's not severe. Certainly doesn't happen to most everyone or there would be TONS of these phones being returned.

    But that's been the exact argument about the iPhone4 bug...it only really seems to affect people who both don't have a case and are in poor reception areas. Every iPhone user I know personally has a case, which I would presume would somewhat limit the problem. Many iPhone users (myself included) do also happen to be in poor reception areas unfortunately... The bug also seems to disproportionately affect left-handed people.

    If you live in a GOOD reception area with the iPhone4, the death grip might make you not lose even a single bar, as has been demonstrated ad infinitum (go read the Anandtech review if it doesn't make sense).

    Judging from Jobs' numbers if they're accurate, not too many people are returning the iPhone4 either.

  • Re:PR versus PR (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dysonlu (907935) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @05:09PM (#32938976)
    "a lot of people prefer even an iPhone that drops calls to a Blackberry that doesn't" What did you say about anecdotes again? What an irony. (FYI: RIM has a greater smartphone marketshare than Apple.)
  • Re:PR versus PR (Score:4, Interesting)

    by iluvcapra (782887) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @05:23PM (#32939080)
    Keep in mind that RIM's smartphone market share, though greater, isn't insanely greater than Apple's market share -- last we saw it was 35% versus 27 %, with RIM falling and Apple rising in Q1 2010 [cnet.com] (who knows where it is now), and even given that disparity Apple still takes a greater share of the profits [wordpress.com] and has higher customer satisfaction [macworld.com]. The iPhone solution is simply more profitable to the producer and more beneficial to more buyers than Blackberrys.
  • by ninjakoala (890584) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @05:27PM (#32939106)

    This is just anecdotal evidence of course, but I've never had my iPhone 3G drop a call. Not once. It's only been used in Denmark and Norway, though.

    But - and this is rather interesting - my previous provider was having some trouble, where suddenly I couldn't make calls at all or use data. When I switched to an older phone (Sony-Ericsson W810i) I could eventually get a lock on the signal, but data was still a no go. Making calls was a hit and miss affair. When I switched to an old black/white Nokia (1112 I believe), it acted like you would expect. Driving to the next town I'd have no problems on any of the phones. I switched provider and have had no problems since.

    In other words it seems like if a network has issues, they will be amplified by the complexity of the phone.

  • by ratboy666 (104074) <fred_weigel.hotmail@com> on Saturday July 17, 2010 @05:57PM (#32939282) Homepage Journal

    Let's look at use cases. I am in the (fortunate) position to have an iPhone 3G (my wife's) and a BlackBerry 9000 (mine). The 9000 was chosen based on the keyboard size (over the Bold, etc.).

    Phone Usage: BlackBerry. If we are in (say) a parking garage, we use my phone. The iPhone craps out much earlier (and we use the same carrier).

    MP3 Playback: BlackBerry. You just plug the phone into a computer and drag the MP3s over. They play. Then again, I have an iPod as well. But, it doesn't really do so well -- the BB is also a "USB stick".

    Video Playback: BlackBerry. See MP3 Playback. As well, the BlackBerry will just play Xvid encoded AVI files. Grab it and go. No need to transcode and put into iTunes first.

    Instant Messaging: iPhone. The conversation threading is nice

    Email: BlackBerry.

    Bluetooth: BlackBerry. I can squirt pictures and stuff over to computers or other phones. Just not iPhones.

    Storage: BlackBerry. Just a USB drive. Stick in a micro-sd to extend the storage.

    Router: iPhone. I think (I haven't seen the feature on the 3G yet). As a road warrior I carry a micro-router along with my BlackBerry.

    So, it depends on your use cases. It is interesting that the iPhone wins in a one "business" case (router) and one "home" case (instant messaging). As to "usable" it all depends... If you are a "road warrior", you may not have access to the computer that is the "home computer" that the iPhone depends on. Unless, of course, that is your laptop. (but, what if your laptop is stolen?) Which makes the iPhone pretty much a non-starter for a pure "smartphone" play.

  • Re:PR versus PR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by santiagodraco (1254708) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @07:18PM (#32939786)

    First off Apple is making it very difficult to return phones, and I can assure you there are LOTS of people in the Apple stores trying to get the phones fixed and threatening to return them.

    How about this interesting story...

    I was in the Apple store in the "Domain" in Austin, tx. I went in for a phone exchange because I was instructed to do so by Apple tech support on the "chance" that it would fix my drop call problems (and proximity sensor issues). I had 2 case numbers and Apple made the appointment for the visit themselves.

    Well, I get there and spend 60 minutes, 15 minutes waiting for help (past my appt time) and 45 minutes talking to the support person while he went to the back 3 times to "get my replacement phone" only to come back out and say "I just want to make sure you understand that after you exchange your phone you cannot ever return it for a refund" and then being unable to show me anything in writing that states that I would lose my contractual rights to a refund if the phone is exchanges in an attempted repair.

    That's right, Apple stores are attempting to decieve customers that they cannot return phones if they are exchanged for repair during their 30 day period. They cannot show anything in writing to this affect (because nothing in writing exists) and when pressured they will simply say "oh I know how the system works and it is simply impossible to return an exchanged phone because the serial numbers change". How interesting. But they cannot explain how that can be possible when the exchange work order shows both the original phones serial and the exchange phones serial"

    So those of you that claim that no one wants to return their phones should walk into an Apple store and see what they are doing to keep people from doing so. The intimidation (with a pleasant voice) tactics used to stop customers from doing so (since most customers will try an exchange at least once before refunding) is despicable and probably illegal.

  • by mdarksbane (587589) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @08:17PM (#32940078)

    I find it interesting that you ignore web browsing and third party apps, which are pretty much the biggest reasons to get an iphone. Browsing on my father in law's blackberry is *painful* compared to my touch. I won't argue with your specific win/loss analysis much, though (although I'd call mp3 playback a wash).

  • Re:PR versus PR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by R3d M3rcury (871886) on Saturday July 17, 2010 @08:34PM (#32940166) Journal

    I am struggling to recall RIM selling a million of anything in a weekend.

    This is something that always bothers my "reality versus accounting" soul.

    See, here's the thing: Apple opens a product up for pre-orders a few weeks before it ships. A bunch of people buy it on pre-order. Then, the first weekend, Apple ships all those orders and, on Monday, Apple announces having sold millions of whatevers the first weekend.

    Now, from an accounting perspective, this is accurate. You can't book sales until you ship the item. So even though Apple got money over a few weeks, they couldn't actually put it on their books as income until they shipped out the devices. So when Apple shipped out the devices is when they booked the revenue, all of which occurred that first weekend. Plus whatever they sold in the stores over the weekend. So, from an accounting standpoint, it's accurate--they made the money that first weekend.

    However, the reality perspective says that the item was available for sale a few weeks beforehand. If I had a product and I offered it for sale one year before it finally shipped, and I had one person per day buying it, on the day I shipped I could claim that 365 bought it in one day. But realistically, I had one sale per day. Based on past history, I would have a hard time believing that I would have 365 sales on the day after I shipped those 365. It's more likely that I would continue having 1 per day.

    Apple releases these numbers to look impressive. And, don't get me wrong, selling a million or so devices in a few weeks is impressive--I've never sold that many things in a few years! But it wasn't "one weekend"--that's an accounting trick.

  • by olafva (188481) on Sunday July 18, 2010 @01:55AM (#32941174) Homepage

    Very well said. It's disgusting to see so many /. posts with no basis in fact, just personal bias.
    Before someone posts - please inform yourself by watching the video.
    Apple has done far more than any other smartphone company ( including the "foreign" ones, like
    RIM and Nokia) to make sure everyone who buys an iPhone4 is 100% satisfied including
    free bumpers and complete refunds (no restocking fees). Funny how despite all the press
    about this very minor issue, the iPhone 4 is Apple's best product yet with virtually no
    returns and the highest rate of customer satisfaction among all smartphones.

  • No it isn't (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SmallFurryCreature (593017) on Sunday July 18, 2010 @06:35AM (#32941742) Journal

    What you call an accounting trick is normal business practice. You can pre-order every phone you want. Just nobody wants to. THAT says something.

    What next, box-office results ain't real because you can only watch the movie when it plays?

  • by PopeRatzo (965947) * on Sunday July 18, 2010 @02:03PM (#32943830) Homepage Journal

    Most people who experience a dropped call don't throw up their hands and yell to the sky, "Yaweh! Why has thou forsaken me? Your sign of the dropped call has been received! I shall obey, and attempt no further phone access for the remainder of the day!"

    You must not use your mobile phone for business.

    I've seen people lose a call and crush their phone on the ground in a hail of epithets. Most recently, it was a trader (orange jacket and all) outside of the Mercantile Exchange building. Admittedly, he was probably hopped up on crystal meth at the time, but still he fuckin' snapped from a lost call. I was walking my bike across west Wacker Drive at the time near the Opera House and witnessed the scene with my own eyes. It was not the first time I've seen someone destroy a phone out of fury over a bad connection.

    Of course, it may be different with iPhone users. Maybe they respond with "Thank you, sir, may I have another?" when a call is lost.

"Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

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