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Steve Jobs Says PC Folks' World Is Slipping Away 1067

Posted by kdawson
from the freedom-from-porn dept.
theodp writes "Provoked by an iPad ad promising a 'revolution,' Valleywag's Ryan Tate fired off a late-night missive to Steve Jobs. Jobs responded, and the two engaged in an after-midnight e-mail debate over lockdown, Cocoa vs. Flash, battery life, and whether 'freedom from porn' is a bug or a feature. 'The times they are a changin',' quipped Jobs, 'and some traditional PC folks feel like their world is slipping away. It is.' Tate was unswayed by the Apple CEO's reality distortion field, but did come away impressed by Jobs' willingness to spar one-on-one over his beliefs — at two in the morning on a weekend."
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Steve Jobs Says PC Folks' World Is Slipping Away

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  • Sounds to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:17PM (#32223522)

    Sounds to me like Jobs just got trolled hard. 10/10 for Ryan Tate.

    • by tomhudson (43916) <`moc.nosduh-arab ... `nosduh.arabrab'> on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:29PM (#32223612) Journal
      > "Sounds to me like Jobs just got trolled hard."

      "There's an App for that ..."

      "Your App has been rejected by the Apple Store. Because we said so!"

      • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 15, 2010 @11:49PM (#32224480)

        Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

        what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

        What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.

        • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by tomhudson (43916) <`moc.nosduh-arab ... `nosduh.arabrab'> on Saturday May 15, 2010 @11:54PM (#32224506) Journal
          It was a low blow ... he seems to forget that he got his good stuff from Xerox, and then got a real operating system from BSD.
          • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by westlake (615356) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @12:39AM (#32224778)
            It was a low blow ... he seems to forget that he got his good stuff from Xerox, and then got a real operating system from BSD.

            Recognizing "the good stuff" when you see it is rare. Transforming ideas into marketable products rarer still.

            • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:4, Interesting)

              by bzipitidoo (647217) <bzipitidoo@yahoo.com> on Sunday May 16, 2010 @02:10AM (#32225252) Journal

              What I find so disappointing about Jobs is not anything about him really. It's that the public doesn't value freedom enough to tell him where to stick his proprietary lockdown schemes. It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices, and blow off the overreaching fine print that infringes on our rights. Maybe they're right about EULAs not being worth even a quick look, and ignoring EULAs is the best way to handle them.

              At least no DRM encumbered music format has gained traction. Shows that people do have limits. I'm sure Apple would push a DRMed format if they could get their customers to accept it.

              • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:4, Interesting)

                by fyngyrz (762201) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @04:09AM (#32225762) Homepage Journal

                It's really amazing how an excellent UI is so valuable to quite a lot of people that they'll pay much higher prices, and blow off the overreaching fine print that infringes on our rights.

                • Excellent UI
                • Excellent hardware
                • Excellent (and easily used) software
                • It really does "just work" right out of the box
                • iPod ditto
                • iPad ditto

                I find Jobs to be the exact wrong person to exert his idea of morals and ethics upon the morals and ethics of his customers. His cry of "you'd understand if you had kids" is just the kind of moronic posturing I'd expect... the Apple store is chock full of blood and gore, but sex, one of the most wonderful things we get to involve ourselves in, is "bad." This is how I *know* that Jobs is possessed of absolutely bankrupt morals and ethics, and why I don't think he belongs between myself, or my children, and content of any type.

                However, he is the exact right person to nail down hardware and software guidelines. How do I know? I run Linux, Windows and OS X. OS X is - by *huge margins* - the best of the three to use day in, day out.

                So hey, Steve: If you were half the man you think you are, you'd pull the violence from the apple store and put sex in. But you're not. You're a posturing idiot who is playing the social game for sales, tapping the social retards who love violence and wave their little religious hands over there eyes at the sight of sex. Congratulations, chump. Stick to areas you have skill in: hardware and software design.

                Not content.

          • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:5, Informative)

            by MCSEBear (907831) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @04:51AM (#32225934)
            It's pretty obvious that you've never actually seen video of a Xerox Alto in action, or you wouldn't claim the Mac interface was a copy of the Alto. The two are very different.

            It's also very obvious that you aren't aware that Douglas Engelbart [wikipedia.org] at the Stanford Research Institute [wikipedia.org], not Xerox, invented the mouse and the windowed user interface as part of a system known as NLS [wikipedia.org] . (NLS was also the first system with: bit-mapped displays, remote procedure calls, collaboration software, hypertext, remote graphical access, the chording keyboard, presentation software, and others)

            The unveiling of NLS to computer scientists in 1968 is referred to as the Mother of All Demos [wikipedia.org].

            See for yourself [google.com].
        • Re:Sounds to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by node 3 (115640) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @12:24AM (#32224690)

          Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

          what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

          What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.

          His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.

          Of course this is Slashdot, the very definition of all talk and no action, so...

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Peach Rings (1782482)

      Sounds to me like Steve Jobs answered some random person's critical comments immediately on a Friday night. Obviously everything that comes out of his mouth is garbage, but damn that is someone who cares about their product.

  • by kentrel (526003) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:19PM (#32223554) Journal
    Sorry Steve. The PC had me at "Hello boys"
    • by nmb3000 (741169) <nmb3000@that-google-mail-site.com> on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:51PM (#32224142) Homepage Journal

      Freedom from programs that steal your private data. Freedom from programs that trash your battery. Freedom from porn. Yep, freedom.

          WAR IS PEACE
        FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

      Nice job combining those bottom two, Steve. How did the CEO of the company that produced the 1984 commercial go from that to this utter drivel?

      I am free from programs that steal my private data on my PC if I choose to be.
      I am free from programs that trash my battery on my PC if I choose to be.
      I am free from porn on my PC, if I choose to be.

      Do you see the difference Steve?

          WAR IS PEACE
        FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

      The most amazing part of this entire thing is the complete role reversal. The running woman in 1984 no longer represents Apple or its products. She is now represented by the PC and its many forms with the drones being Apple users basking in their "freedom". You never have more freedom when you have fewer choices. NEVER.

      This is the very reason I won't buy Apple's products. The doublethink being presented here by Steve goes against everything I believe computing should be about.

  • by pdboddy (620164) <pdboddy&gmail,com> on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:21PM (#32223574) Homepage Journal
    Hehe, I will say that in the last image of the email exchange, Steve Jobs really zinged Tate.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Presto Vivace (882157)
      How many CEO's would come out looking half so well in an email flame war?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:33PM (#32223642)

      Steve Jobs still seems like a dick.

      Steve: "So what if I come off as dickish? What've *you* done to change the world that gives you license to criticize me?"

      Following people are allowed to criticize Jobs: Nobody.

      Among people you might think would be allowed to criticize Jobs, here's why they can't:

      Bill Gates: Windows is useless. The PC is over.
      Linus Torvald: Haha. Exactly what's your market share again?
      God: Who is this God? Even if he existed, what has he developed for computers? Nothing? Moving on.
      Anyone not computer related: YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS ARE BUNK.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I thought it was a pretty cheap shot. One has to be a prolific achiever now to even criticize Steve Jobs? Sorry that doesn't sound so smart to me. I could've imagined that coming from Steve Ballmer, but I imagined Jobs to be better.

      I'm disappointed in this industry in general. With the advent of internet and open communications/standards, I thought the era of odious restrictions placed by software companies would go away. Looks like nothing will change; only the players change. We need more Stallmen.

      • by ClosedSource (238333) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:55PM (#32224174)

        It's also worthwhile to remember that while Jobs is certainly the credit-taker, there's no evidence that Apple's best achievements were Steve's personal accomplishments.

      • One and the same (Score:5, Interesting)

        by pizzach (1011925) <pizzach&gmail,com> on Sunday May 16, 2010 @12:47AM (#32224834) Homepage

        Call me a heretic, but I like both Steve Jobs and Stallman. I would rather have both or none rather than just one. They each are both ballzy and push for what they want to see in their respective ecosystems. In the case of Stallman's ecosystem (GNewSense), flash doesn't exist either and all closed source blobs must die. You can't tell me this doesn't cause restrictions.

        Steve Jobs is a crazy man who has time and time pushed for things that people thought were ridiculous and would never fly. The thing I like the most about Jobs is he keeps getting Apple to do things against the corporate grain that makes the companies around them shat their pants. I wouldn't think investors in a publicly traded company would allow him to do things like not license patents on multitouch etc.

        My 5 cents anyway.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Hal_Porter (817932)

      "By the way Pastor Niemoller, how many thousand year Reichs have you built?"

      Yeah, I Godwinned it.

  • haha (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:23PM (#32223584)
    steve gets a little market share and it goes to his head.

    here in the real world, he hasn't hardly made a dent in personal computing. I'd admit he has cornered the wanky new toy gadget market, that's about it.

    • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

      by OrangeCatholic (1495411) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:33PM (#32223640)

      What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.

      Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.

      It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.

      • Re:haha (Score:5, Interesting)

        by peragrin (659227) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:40PM (#32223680)

        your quite right, but the people have been eating at MSFT's burger king for two decades. the fact that they are now willing to try something different, is a sign all to it's own.

        • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mlts (1038732) * on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:30PM (#32224038)

          The problem is that "something different" may not be good.

          Obligatory car analogy: It would be like trading in your 10 year old car for a new one that looks cool and is comfortable, but is completely autopiloted, and only lets you out at certain stops. Businesses have to apply to the car maker so the car would stop at their brick and mortar store. And without warning, this can be taken away, so if someone used to stop at a Target, they wouldn't have that option tomorrow and only get Wal-Marts. Continuing the analogy, someone patches the ECM with a steering wheel to allow manual control, but the next year's cars always come with protection against that.

          People trading their computers in for what are effectively game consoles means that they are trading their freedom to run what they want, when they want for an environment locked down and managed by someone else who can do anything they please.

          My question is: Do we want to go this route of sacrificing openness for ease of use? Yes, viruses and Trojans are a nuisance, but do we want to trade our relatively open computers for what would essentially be terminals, locked to some for-profit corporation's motives and future? For me, it is a no-brainer. I will keep my computer, and my phone will be on an open platform. If Android phones become unrootable or impossible to put custom ROMs on, I'll move to the Nokia N900 and encourage others to follow.

          Do we want all our computers to be like PS3s where at any time, functionality can disappear at a moment's notice like the "other OS", and there would not be a single thing we can do about it? I'm sure the usual antagonists of open computing would love a wholesale move to a locked down platform, but is that where we want to take computing as we know it? Do we want to move to a computing model where what we buy, we are only permitted access to whatever the company allows on a whim? Yes, PS3s have no virus or spyware problems, but we are trading freedom for security here, and in the end, we will end up with neither.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by frdmfghtr (603968)

            Given the success of the iPad thus far, I'd say that for some users, the answer is "yes." Not everybody needs a terminal prompt with root access. Not everybody needs 100% access the the OS's most fundamental settings. Not everybody needs their platform to do everything imaginable.

            It's quite simple: either you like the iPad or you don't. If you do, good for you. If you don't, buy something else. Last I checked, nobody has been forced to buy an iPad.

          • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

            by daviddennis (10926) <david@amazing.com> on Saturday May 15, 2010 @11:16PM (#32224310) Homepage

            I feel your pain, I really do.

            But what if your old car would go to random places all of a sudden and crash into brick walls at random times? And when you went out to browse your porn half the time your car would get a flat tire while you were out there and a bunch of punks would beat it up and you'd spend hours and hours getting it to work halfway decently.

            So Steve Jobs glides up in his gleaming white Gulfstream V jet and says, "Hey, I have a cool car that drives better than anything on the planet. We make sure you can drive on this excellent network of safe roads, and leave the potholed, poorly made old style ones behind. You know, I'm sorry, but not only did those maintenance guys do a lousy job, they had no taste."

            So you take a look at his roads and sure enough, everything is gleaming and works and there are no strange brick walls to be found, anywhere. But ... there is something missing ... something important!

            "Where's the porn?" you ask. "And how about Rush Limbaugh and National Review?"

            "Oh, the porn hurts the kids, and National Review makes fun of our sacred cow Obama(tm), You know, we are all Democrats here, even if we don't quite admit it," he says. "Don't worry, though, you can use Safari to browse any web site you want."

            "And you know what, we know you want to look at porn and we're a big company and can't approve of that garbage. But all you need to do is run Safari or the movie player and you can find that junk you want, just not on our shiny roads. So you go a little out of your way for it, but your experience is still safe and when you're back you will be assured that your car will still work, instead of get banged up."

            And isn't that funny, that might just be better for porn, actually, because you are always safe. How many native porn apps do you have on your computer? I would bet, none. How many porn web sites do you visit? If you are concerned with this issue, probably quite a few. The point is, the makers of porn are not stupid, and they will bring you what you want.

            The App Store does have some downright sad speech restrictions. My Obama IQ [apple.com] game, for instance, was not approved until after the 2008 elections were safely passed. Pretty pathetic, no? Not that one anti-Obama game was ever going to tip an election one way or the other, but the sales would have been nice to get.

            Complete freedom of speech is preserved on the Internet. The App Store is not a vehicle for free political or sexual expression, and to me, that's OK. As long as you can browse the web, you are free.

            Some people who argue against Apple just don't realize how horrible a task it is to eradicate a piece of spyware from a Windows computer. I used to work in IT and my experiences in trying to devirus a computer were just plain horrible and pathetic. Fortunately I've been an almost exclusively Apple user for many years and since I started being one, my computing experience has become far better and smoother and more fun.

            So I have a balanced perspective. Would it be nice if the new iPad was totally free? Sure.

            But isn't the App Store a great invention, something that helps even small developers like me make a few bucks?

            In the past couple of years I have bought far more App Store applications than Mac applications, and most of my Mac applications were made by, guess who, Apple. App Store applications are cheap, and they are easy to buy and use, and a lot of fun. And most of my App Store applications are from small developers, not Apple. So if you are looking at which business model serves the small developer, it might just be Apple's.

            This is not a perfect world. It's a tragedy that evil people deliberately set out to ruin other peoples' computers in pursuit of a few bucks. But they do, and the iPhone software model stops them cold. If you're sick of having to be paranoid about evil people running your computer, you might prefer if it was run by Steve Jobs, as opposed to running it yourself.

            That's a trade a lot of people want to make, and I'm sorry, I really can't blame them.

            D

      • Re:haha (Score:4, Funny)

        by SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:45PM (#32223720)

        More like succeeding by not having a hand crank on the front of your car. Most people don't miss that.

        • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

          by asdfghjklqwertyuiop (649296) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:15PM (#32223930)

          And an openable hood.

        • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Draek (916851) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:15PM (#32223932)

          No, not really, the steak dinner is still the more appropiate analogy.

          Having hand cranks wouldn't serve much (if any) purpose on a modern car, so truly most people *wouldn't* want it. Steak dinners, however, are actually desireable and there's a sizeable market for them still. In the case of PCs they're the corporate world, which may love to lock down their employees' computers but despise having them locked from *them*, and for the variety of tasks corporations need computers for, an Apple toy (sorry, "appliance") will never be enough.

          But Jobs' and the Apple fans' dismissal of the business sector isn't surprising. That's why Microsoft considers Linux, and not Apple, its biggest threat: because Apple's ideology of dividing the world between 'geeks' and 'consumers', refusing to even acknowledge the existence of the corporate market, is what ultimately locks them from being more than an 'also ran' first to IBM and now to Microsoft.

          Wake me up when the corporate world abandons regular computers in favor of Apple's toys. But not before.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Many people do enjoy manual transmissions, though I don't, so I see your point.

          However, the largest component missing is an option other than the App Store. This move is akin to selling a car with the hood welded shut. While some higher-end models might get away with it (Rolls-Royce, BMW, etc), it's still something I'd be very wary of buying. Modern BMWs are to the point where you physically can't even get an oil change, let alone change the radio, without going to a BMW dealer (at BMW prices) -- you're act

      • Re:haha (Score:5, Insightful)

        by michaelhood (667393) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:57PM (#32223800)

        What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.

        Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.

        It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.

        I agree.. and yet you can't even boot, for the first time, a 3G iPad without connecting it to a computer with iTunes. WTH were they thinking with that?

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by HermMunster (972336)

        Grandma doesn't use an iPad. It hurts her hand to hold it and type. Grandma also isn't playing duke nukem on it. Grandmas need multitasking and want to view videos. This device isn't for her. She's always questioning why she can't have it her way. She keeps asking "where's the beef?"

  • Try this one... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:28PM (#32223602)
    Go out, buy nothing but an iPad and tell me how good your computing experience is 12 months from now.

    No cheating. Not a single transaction on a single machine that isn't an iPad.

    I dare you.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by am 2k (217885)

      Kinda hard to get any money then, without ATMs? Or driving a car (same goes for public transportation). Or getting up on time without your radio clock.

      • Re:Try this one... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by steelfood (895457) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @12:10AM (#32224634)

        Money? You can't even use the damn thing without connecting it to an actual computing device first.

        If you were somehow stranded on a remote island with a brand new iPad and a power source (a solar powered battery charger or whatnot), you'd basically have a small kickboard that doesn't float.

        On the other hand, if you instead had a phone, a netbook, or even a wireless router, you could at least broadcast a signal out and hope that passing rescue craft would be able to detect it. With an iPad, you've got nothing.

        Granted, getting you off a remote island isn't exactly the advertised use case, but it goes to show exactly how narrow the iPad's use actually is. In particular, it's a rather expensive supplement to a real machine, rather than a real machine in and of itself.

    • Re:Try this one... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Reverberant (303566) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:34PM (#32224064) Homepage

      Go out, buy nothing but an iPad and tell me how good your computing experience is 12 months from now.

      Me? Wouldn't work at all (which is why I don't own one). For my mother, older sister, an elderly couple who's network I manage and about twenty other people I can think of? It would be perfect (and make my life much easier).

  • by dangitman (862676) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:30PM (#32223620)
    What Tate failed to realize that he was actually arguing with a bot, and Apple decided to start testing their new artificially intelligent overlord outside the lab. He then woke up in the morning with a stolen iPhone prototype in his pocket, and a dead hooker in his bed.
  • Par for the course (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alvinrod (889928) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:32PM (#32223636)
    Doesn't really surprise me at all. Steve wants a controlled user experience and geeks want the freedom to do whatever the hell they want to do. The two clash. Steve is right though, we don't have to buy his devices, so don't. It's that easy. I do like Steve's quote at the end of the exchange, however. For as many people bitch about Apple here, there aren't enough that actually go out and do something about it. Even if you're not a developer, you can still vote with your wallet. If you want to drive FOSS to greater prominence, either help by using it or help by creating and fixing it. Complaining about Apple on the internet won't do much. Creating or helping to improve FOSS is only real way to stick it to Apple.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by symbolic (11752)

      For as many people bitch about Apple here, there aren't enough that actually go out and do something about it.

      Well, if you're not going to buy an iPad, you won't be going anywhere to do it. So yeah, in order to do something, you really won't be doing anything.

  • by hhawk (26580) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:34PM (#32223646) Homepage Journal

    The computer, consumer electronic market and the gaming console market are like quick sand; its hard to say who is really winning or losing.

    26% of the Planet is online.. but the vast majority of them are connecting with Mobile Devices. The rest are connecting with some type of Intel/AMD based device and some with other processors like ARM but very few of them (I don't have the exact percent) are running an Apple OS.

    Thus in that context Apple while is winning in consumer electronics (phone, music play, etc.) versus Microsoft there is real competition and MS had phones for a lot longer. MS is winning over Apple in the gaming console area but has lots of competition from real gaming companies..

    http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm [internetworldstats.com]

  • by joeflies (529536) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:36PM (#32223658)

    This guy just wrapped up all the common complaints that Adobe and the non-Apple customers want you to believe what's wrong with iPad, and sends off a profanity laced alcohol induced email exchange to see if he can out wit Steve Jobs.

    I'd say that Steve stayed pretty much on message with what he's been always saying, even without his PR department to filter out his intent. And the blogger just looks like, well, a troll.

    • by Mongoose Disciple (722373) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @11:14PM (#32224294)

      I'd say that Steve stayed pretty much on message with what he's been always saying, even without his PR department to filter out his intent.

      I never really considered that "I'm a pompous douchebag" was Steve Jobs' message, but when I view it that way, it makes a lot of sense.

      I mean, the man makes products that obviously there's a huge market for and good for him, but god damn it's like a one-man circle jerk up in there.

  • Benefits (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Darkness404 (1287218) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:38PM (#32223672)
    Steve Jobs seems to ignore everything that caused products to be successful: Price to performance. Lets see here the iPad

    The iPad costs ~$500, a cheap notebook costs $300-400, paying $500 for a notebook usually gets you a fast, powerful notebook. With a notebook I'm not limited by stupid design decisions, even Microsoft lets me do what I want and doesn't restrict programs. If I want to install an emulator, thats fine. If I want to install Photoshop, thats fine. I don't have to worry about petty squabbles about how Flash is sooooo evil and destroying the world! I can just choose to install Flash or not. With a notebook I can pay ~$5 for a USB card reader rather than $30 for a single-format card reader. With a notebook I have choices of just about everything else, I'm not locked into expensive hardware.

    The iPod won marketshare for having a good UI and being small. The iPad has a decent-ish design and decent UI. However, when I can get a laptop with a UI that I've been using for most of my adult life... Why change? The iPad runs expensive applications, a laptop runs free applications.

    I think I'm not alone in thinking how annoying it is to have common-sense features be added in at a later date which would have already been done with a simi-open platform.

    No one wants real applications! We will never have an iPhone SDK! After all, programs are -terrible- to run. No one wants an alternate browser! No one wants copy/paste! No one wants multi-tasking!

    Sorry Steve, I don't understand your opposition to common sense. I have an iPod touch because at the time it was the cheapest wi-fi enabled device to have a good internet experience on the go with some games/music/movies. I'm not going to get an iPad because there are cheaper devices that do a -ton- more.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by arbiter1 (1204146)
      you can get new pc laptop that cheap, goin by prices on apple.com you can't get one their for anything short of a 1000$, might well go for that wepad that the one german company made, least they are not tieing ur ass down like mac does with all their crap. With all the tie downs they mark price for their stuff a good 50-70% higher then pc counter part with same hardware. you mac fan boys can call me a troll or flamer all you want but facts are Facts.
      • Re:Benefits (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Darkness404 (1287218) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:01PM (#32223826)
        I'm not a Mac fan really, but if you look at the specs, Mac machines aren't that much more expensive than their PC counterparts spec-wise. The problem is, they have a lot of things most people don't need. Do you -really- need a backlit keyboard? What about a non-standard output port? Do you really need that Core i5 or Core i7 CPU? Do you really need DDR3 RAM? Etc.

        The problem is, most people pay for a $1,000+ machine when their needs are met by a machine half the cost or less. Yes, there -are- people who need Core i7 CPUs and powerful graphics cards and OS X and all the fancy stuff. But the average user? No
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Antisyzygy (1495469)
        You can build a PC that will wipe the floor with any Mac for 900 bucks.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sootman (158191)

      And for the elevnty-hojillionth freaking time, MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER! Not EVERYONE needs to do EVERYTHING! Plenty of people CAN get by with a very limited device.

      As for the rest of your rant, read this. [macworld.com]

      [Engineers and designers at Apple] take something small, simple, and painstakingly well considered. They ruthlessly cut features to derive the absolute minimum core product they can start with. They polish those features to a shiny intensity. At an anticipated media event, Apple reveals this core product... Then everyone goes back to Cupertino and rolls. As in, they start with a few tightly packed snowballs and then roll them in more snow to pick up mass until they've got a snowman. That's how Apple builds its platforms. It's a slow and steady process of continuous iterative improvement...

      Look at the original iPod. Kinda pricey, Mac only, FireWire only--wow, look at crazy Apple, they're selling something that doesn't even work with all the computers they've sold in the last few years! But they added Windows support, and USB, and photos, and videos, and then they made them in different siz

      • Re:Benefits (Score:4, Insightful)

        by williamhb (758070) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @11:19PM (#32224326) Journal

        And for the elevnty-hojillionth freaking time, MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER! Not EVERYONE needs to do EVERYTHING! Plenty of people CAN get by with a very limited device.

        Really? Have you ever tried even writing your resume and then printing it out on an iPad? Was it a nice experience for that large amount of editing, layout tweaking, and then hooking up to a $100 Epson printer that was the one you bought cheaply from KMart? (It's not exactly a specialist task.) Or keeping the 10s of GB of photos you've accrued? I'm pretty certain that there is NOBODY who only owns an iPad and does not also own a more traditional PC/laptop device. The iPad is not supplanting the PC market, it is growing a previously underserved market segment.

        • Re:Benefits (Score:4, Insightful)

          by aralin (107264) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @04:55AM (#32225960)

          I know plenty of people who have computer at work, they do work there and they come home and do not touch or own computer. They might buy an iPad though, to read books or browse web, read email, but they don't need to do anything else beside that. Just because you don't know anybody living without computers or using them just to read email at best doesn't mean that such people don't exist or even are hard to find.

    • Re:Benefits (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cowscows (103644) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:00PM (#32223816) Journal

      Nobody would ever spend $100 on a fancy chef's knife when they could spend $40 and get a pocket knife that's not only got a blade to cut things, but also a screwdriver, a bottle opener, a tiny saw, and some tweezers.

      Except that many people are plenty happy to spend their money on something that is designed to do particular tasks well, even if it can't do everything that a similar product can do.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by keeboo (724305)
        ...or you can have that same chef's knife with and extra set of knives for $80.
        All made in the same chinese factory as the $100 one, except the cheaper knives don't carry an apple logo.
    • Re:Benefits (Score:5, Insightful)

      by am 2k (217885) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:13PM (#32223922) Homepage

      Sounds to me like you want a laptop, not an iPad. Due to this, I'd suggest getting a laptop, not an iPad, since the iPad doesn't seem to fit your use case.

      On the other hand, if somebody wants a small gadget with a streamlined user experience that's also adapted to the hardware (no dialog boxes that don't fit on your mini screen, no 5x5mm touch areas, ), the iPad might be the right buying decision.

      Incidentally, that's also what Steve Jobs (or whoever replied) said in those replies: Nobody is forcing you to get an iPad or develop for it. It's a free market. Just because you think you have no use case for it doesn't mean that nobody has one.

  • by fermion (181285) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:46PM (#32223732) Homepage Journal
    I hate to keep bringing this up, but people don't want to fiddle with machines. They want them to work. Most people I know buy PCs because that is what they use at work and school. They get free software and often free support.

    If the iPad can provide the functionality they need, and contrary to the false statement, free p0rn(who wants to pay for an app to pay for p0rn anyway) and let the kids write papers with a bluetooth keyboard and not have updates fail because MS cannot verify via WGA an accuse the user of theft, then why buy anything else?

    I feel a little disturbed that I can't change batteries, add memory, or write my own programs like I can on my Mac, but then I don't fix my own car anymore either. The worlds moves on, and one either moves or gets run over. And just look at the unemployment rate in the US to see what happens to those that get run over. Sure you can hold rallies and complain about taxes and blame the immigrants, but you are still run over.

  • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @09:48PM (#32223742) Journal
    Is that the guy who decided to go up against Steve did such a tepid job of it.

    If you really feel like trying to piss Jobs off for his control-freakery and insistence on building Computers Where The Trains Run on Time, you don't just whine about "freedom", you throw his past as an ostensibly anti-establishment maverick in his face.

    "So, Steve, you finally got rid of those slots that Woz was always sneaking in to things, and have even managed to build a (walled) garden of pure ideology, where each user may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory runtimes and confusing languages..."
  • by Millennium (2451) on Saturday May 15, 2010 @10:03PM (#32223842) Homepage

    Negative freedoms: the biggest load of BS to infect pop sociology in the last century. When someone claims to offer or desire "freedom from" anything, run for the hills, because they are either too naive to understand the costs or too traumatized to care. Neither viewpoint is healthy.

  • silly (Score:4, Informative)

    by roman_mir (125474) on Sunday May 16, 2010 @03:19AM (#32225552) Homepage Journal

    I am no apple user (no iToys of any kind) but this is just silly.

    Talking about Freedoms with a corporation about a product they roll out as if those are real Freedoms.

    Carlin was right: It is all an illusion, an elaborate illusion of Freedom. You have no Freedoms. You have a Freedom to chose between Government parties, both of which will fuck you, the difference is that one will be Fucking you and enjoying it, the other will be Fucking you and probably bitching about how they really Love you.

    Freedom of choice is not about gadgets, it's not about the latest iFad bullshit. It is really about your economic and political Freedoms and in a world with real Freedoms you'll find a stupid PAD that you personally like from some company who will inevitably produce one.

    'Consumption Based Economy' - what a load of croak. Any retarded pissing himself idiot can consume. Production is the only way to generate wealth and the money is not wealth but only a medium of exchange. Wealth is in production. Consumption always comes as a response to production.

    What an amazing world we live in. People used to die for Freedom - as in dying for Freedom not to be fucked over by someone's idea of how to run their lives and today we are talking about a stupid fake computer with limited capabilities as if a company locking out applications on it is the most serious violation of Freedoms. I guess we have figured out all of the other Non-Freedoms, like the Governments printing money and taking away the value of it from everyone, like the Corporations buying the Governments and destroying competition and becoming gigantic Monopolies that run everything. Where is your iFreedom, is it in the Apple store? Don't they have an app for that?

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