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iPad Will Beat Netbooks With "Magic" 1010

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the gonna-need-more-planes dept.
entirely_fluffy writes "In a talk intended to woo investors, Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook said the iPad will win over potential netbook buyers, but not because of specs or features. No, Cook said, the iPad's magical properties will seal the deal. 'The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have,' Cook said, according to Macworld. 'When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it ... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook.'" Another thing that would help would be a camera and a $100 discount, but hey Magic is cool too, provided they have enough mana.
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iPad Will Beat Netbooks With "Magic"

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  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hyppy (74366) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:40PM (#31273306)
    Everyone was estimating $999 based upon the foolish assumption that it would actually be a useful piece of gear as opposed to a glorified e-reader.
  • by gestalt_n_pepper (991155) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:40PM (#31273312)

    How much magic is left in the Apple Lisa?

    I wouldn't depend on *that* for long.

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by poetmatt (793785) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:40PM (#31273316) Journal

    apple only beat estimations versus itself. In reality, you can get significantly more functionality for less if you compare it to any other company that exists.

    So yes, if you look through rose tinted glasses, the situation looks rosy. who would have known?

  • Re:Sales? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:41PM (#31273326)
    It's called Apple Store
  • by Microlith (54737) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:41PM (#31273340)

    So many people treat computers like a black box that I wouldn't be surprised if this does give netbooks a run for their money. It's doubtful that it will take hold in the more technically oriented community (closed as it is,) but in the "I don't care I just want it to work" arena it may do quite well.

    As for what the hell the magic is, above and beyond being a giant iPod/iPhone, I do not know.

  • Also known as (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SailorSpork (1080153) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:44PM (#31273396) Homepage

    Or, in business terms, "we could sell poop in a box and people would buy it because of their trust in Apple, also know as brand equity, which we will burn in exchange for cash with this product."

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stoolpigeon (454276) * <bittercode@gmail> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:44PM (#31273404) Homepage Journal

    This is reflected in the framing here as well. The ipad can beat netbooks? Well, for the money I can get something better than a netbook. But that comparison wont be as flattering so the bar is pushed lower.

  • by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:47PM (#31273428)
    You missed the most important thing: a netbook will run any application I want it to run. I do not need someone's permission to run the programs I want to run. No app stores, no being denied software, no being treated like an imbecile.
  • by jDeepbeep (913892) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:49PM (#31273466)

    "Magic" is really a good description for trying to create the maximum user experience.

    I just call it 'aesthetic'. *shrug*

  • by PitaBred (632671) <slashdot@pitabre ... g ['s.o' in gap]> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:49PM (#31273478) Homepage

    Apple does good when they're modifying existing markets. They tend to fall flat when they're trying to create new ones (cf. Newton).

  • by MozeeToby (1163751) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:51PM (#31273496)

    The iPhone offered new things in a phone, things the average consumer didn't realize were possible. The iPad offers... what? I just don't see it. The only significant difference between the iPad and an iTouch is the screen size. Yes, that will give developers more that they can do, but only up to a certain point, especially if all apps are suposed to be compatible with the iPhone. It can't even be used as a proper web browsing machine given that amount of sites that are to a greater or lesser extent powered by flash.

  • Nothing new... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by x1n933k (966581) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:51PM (#31273502) Homepage

    The article doesn't really add anything new, it's just spouting the general opinion that's been floating around since the launch.

    I would say Apple's own logo and buzz will make people want it. We have to keep in mind it isn't the geeks that make these gadgets popular, it's when the soccer moms are buying them for themselves and their husbands, or the middle-age blue-collar worker who can have all his Steven King novels with him where ever he may be. These are the people that make up the sales, they're the middle-class. It doesn't matter to them if you can 'alt-tab' to an already running program. Camera or not, it's still a great device that is priced to sell to a large audience. I would have never though of buying a Kindle after seeing one, E-Ink doesn't offer enough for the price. Now there's a easy-to-use E-Reader/Netbook that would fit a lot of people, it's as simple as that.

    Then again maybe I should just blog my opinion and put it somewhere where I can make revenue for ads like this site.

    [J]

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:51PM (#31273506)

    And where can I buy that? All I keep seeing is references to a "Design Reference."

    Of course every company has a few "well this is what we 'could' do." Apple could have shown demos of the iPad a year ago.

    I'm still waiting on my ARM laptop that is 'just around the corner'.

  • Re:Err... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by zappepcs (820751) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:54PM (#31273548) Journal

    They've been barking up the same wrong tree for a long time IMO. The fact that there are so many lemmings with so much free cash has worked to Apple's advantage. Remember, there is a large portion of the populace who buy things because they are told to, or because the commercials make it sound magic. As soon as they see that magic on sale, they buy. Many of them would not know the differences technically, or functionally between iStuff and anything else if you wrote it down for them. They just buy on reputation. As soon as Appple has something like a faulty accelerator system problem this will wear off. MS had one in the form of ME, then Vista. The Zune was practically stillborn in the me-too afterglow of iPods. Still, you can get functionally equivalent equipment at a lower price. Unless you have Apple computers there is NO compelling reason to buy iStuff. No, I'm not just trying to harang on Apple, but the price/function score for iStuff will not be better than what other manufacturers have or will have. Same story, same long tail, same 'magic' and it will continue to work for them till they mess up. IMO, Android is going to really start stealing their thunder very soon. Perhaps reveal the magic to everyone.

  • by Alistair Hutton (889794) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:55PM (#31273566) Homepage
    Apple reallllllly need to stop mentioning netbooks.
    The cheap, gimped, version of the iPad is twice as expensive as a netbook. Every time they say netbook it reminds people that there's a perfectly adequate device that is in many ways more capable than their device for far less money. Everyone was initially amazed that Apple had produced a tablet computer for $500, their amazement waned when they realised Apple hadn't produced a computer.
  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:56PM (#31273578)
    Yes, because we assumed it would be a useful machine -- USB ports, disc space, webcam...
  • by Pojut (1027544) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @12:58PM (#31273606) Homepage

    This is such crap.

    I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?

    "The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have," Cook said, according to Macworld. "When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook."

    This is as close as we will ever get to Apple admitting their cult of personality is the primary (but not only) driver of their sales, not their products.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:00PM (#31273650)

    Are you serious?
    My pre-iphone era phone had a dual slider, GPS, MMS, SMS, full integration with Yahoo, Google, and MSN messengers as well as the ability to integrate with MS Exchange server for emails (including reading the attachments) and a camera that STILL takes better pictures. It even had a flash and ability to focus properly.

    The iPhone is now, and has always been, crap. Easily scratched phones without buttons are for retards.
    There's just an awful lot of retards.

  • by natehoy (1608657) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:02PM (#31273696) Journal

    Does it honestly need to be anything more beyond a giant iPod Touch?

    I would never have spent the money on an iPod Touch, but I won one in a contest. I'm a full card-carrying geek, but at the risk of losing my geek card, the iPod Touch was a magical little device. It's absolute crap for listening to music (limited storage space, crappy tinny speaker, etc) but as a little miniature computer it is truly amazing. I played with it for about 1 day before my wife latched on to it and wouldn't let go (what the hell? saved me buying her an iPhone).

    During the time I've used it, I found myself occasionally thinking, "gee, you know, the interface is top notch, the tablet form factor is perfect for casual surfing, but I just wish the screen was bigger".

    The geek in me hates the closed nature, the fixed memory, the non-replaceable battery, the Reality Distortion Field telling me what apps are OK for me to run and what are not.

    The "screw it just want to surf the web in the evenings and maybe read a book occasionally" is fighting with the "but you can't spend $600 for THAT!" accountant in me over whether I want one.

    A netbook is cheaper, probably has better battery life, is less "closed", and by all accounts is a better solution to any problem you care to name. But, sitting in bed or lounging in the easychair wanting to look up some obscure bit of trivia or watch a video from the Olympics (can't do it on the desktop - Linux Users Need Not Apply at nbcolympics dot com), I find myself snagging the iPod more often than I dig out the laptop. The tablet-style form factor is just too convenient.

  • by MightyMartian (840721) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:03PM (#31273708) Journal

    I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?

    That may not describe the average consumer, but it certainly describes the average Apple fanboy, who would buy a turd with an Apple sticker on it and defy you to find a better one anywhere.

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by binarylarry (1338699) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:05PM (#31273752)

    Well Apple is calling it "MAGICAL."

    I'd say glorified is an apt description.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:06PM (#31273766)

    It's amazing how dense the majority of the Slashdot audience is.

    For the wide majority of people, the functionality of an iPad and a netbook are exactly the same.

    Can you browse the web?
    Can you email?

    Those two questions make up a huge percentage of most netbook users experience.

    Factor in the app store and it is no contest.

    Cult of Personality? Puhleaze. The "magic" he is talking about is the same "magic" that most users see when comparing a command line interface to a well designed GUI.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:07PM (#31273800)

    So many people treat computers like a black box that I wouldn't be surprised if this does give netbooks a run for their money. It's doubtful that it will take hold in the more technically oriented community (closed as it is,) but in the "I don't care I just want it to work" arena it may do quite well.

    As for what the hell the magic is, above and beyond being a giant iPod/iPhone, I do not know.

    If you step away from you keyboard and away from Slashdot and look around, the "I don't care I just want it to work" arena is damn near 100% of the population. To me they figured out the essence of what 99% of their target audience will do with portable computers. They will print money with these.

  • by garcia (6573) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:09PM (#31273836) Homepage

    What's wrong with netbooks?

    They run OS X for $500+ less than their Apple produced counterparts.

  • by whisper_jeff (680366) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:09PM (#31273846)
    Oh, look, someone who doesn't get it.

    The iPad is not a computer. If you want a computer, buy a computer. You obviously want a computer, based on your list. Don't buy an iPad - it's not the product that's right for you. You'd do about as well buying a dishwasher - it's not the product you want. The iPad is, however, the product that a lot of people will want - people who aren't looking for a computer because the iPad is not a computer.
  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ethanol-fueled (1125189) * on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:10PM (#31273874) Homepage Journal

    Surprisingly low price

    WahahahahHAHAHAHAHA! But seriously, I'll buy one...when the price drops to $300 or less.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Antiocheian (859870) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:11PM (#31273886) Journal

    What I like about a netbook:

          * Linux
          * Windows
          * Openoffice
          * Microsoft Office
          * Photoshop
          * Ivona voice reader
          * Keepass
          * Paint Shop Pro
          * Qimage
          * Mplayer
          * Media Player Classic
          * Handbrake
          * FFdshow
          * Goldwave
          * Imgburn
          * SmartDraw
          * VNC
          * Remote desktop
          * Firefox
          * Opera
          * Fallout 1
          * MAME
          * Virtual PC
          * VMware
          * Flash games
          * C64 Emulator
          * Amiga Emulator
          * Spectrum Emulator
          * Qt
          * USB devices
          * Ultraedit
          * PSpad

  • by Pojut (1027544) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:15PM (#31273938) Homepage

    iPad doesn't support flash, which means no redtube, youporn, etc.

    My call is for the netbook. ;-)

  • by AxelBoldt (1490) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:17PM (#31273968) Homepage

    and experience the magic of using it...

    I guess you should ask them again once they have used the ipad to type in twenty email messages or blog comments.

  • Magic = usability (Score:4, Insightful)

    by drumcat (1659893) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:17PM (#31273972)
    You guys bashing don't get it. Your Netbooks will do more. That's the point. Apple is all about giving you the 50% of functions you need, and polishing the hell out of it.

    My grandmother won't get a netbook. She will get an iPad. She's not encroaching on your geek demographic.

    For you logic types, iPad potential customer base > Netbook targeted customer base.

    It will win because it does less.

    Until you understand that concept, stay in your sheltered Netbook world. Oh, and update your virus definitions. And defrag your disk. Be sure to reboot today. Oh, update those drivers, too.
  • by Xtravar (725372) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:20PM (#31274018) Homepage Journal

    One year ago - Slashdotters complaining about Flash on websites.
    Now - Slashdotters complaining that Apple doesn't support Flash on products they'll never buy.

    All this confusion! Which side do I root for? Apple or Flash? It's enough to make my head explode!

    On the one hand, I want to criticize Apple's products for lacking features, and because of all those snobby hipsters wearing turtle necks. Heh heh heh, so smug with their cappucinos and art galleries!
    On the other hand, its lack of features will help destroy my arch nemesis (Flash) and move the web toward standard ways of delivering video and interactive experiences.

    It's enough to tear my Asperger's/semi-autistic mind in half!

  • by Bigjeff5 (1143585) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:20PM (#31274030)

    There is a huge difference in scale here.

    The iPhone and iPod Touch work well because touchscreens work well when held in one hand and manipulated with another (or held in both and manipulated with both).

    Apple may be good at UI design, but once you start setting the iPad down because it is too big to keep holding all the time, things will start to get annoying in a hurry. Laptops are bad enough without a stand as far as neck-strain and the like are concerned when you don't have a stand, a touchscreen PC will be significantly worse, and no UI can make up for that.

    This is basically going to be a pretty expensive device that will do a handful of things much better and a whole lot of things much worse. I honestly think most people who use this after a while are going to say "It's great but..." and look at either a straight up laptop, or look at netbooks like the EEE PC T91, which is a swivel style touchscreen, and costs less than the iPad will. If the touchscreen is as good as I think it will be, the major effect of the iPad will be to improve touchscreens on larger devices.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by pastafazou (648001) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:22PM (#31274068)
    what I don't like about a netbook:

    keyboard too small for real typing
    not much cheaper than an introductory laptop
    lousy processing and ram compared to same introductory laptop
    made of same low quality parts as same introductory laptop
    windows sucks on small screens
  • by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:24PM (#31274104) Homepage

    Yep. That's why Apple TV is such a success. My local stores can't keep 'em in stock.

    Oh, wait.

    Back on topic, why would anyone buy a netbook? I'd say 95% of netbook buyers fit into one of two categories. The first just wanted to buy the cheapest computer looking thing possible, the rest just want a cheap device to surf on.

    The people who want the cheapest computer possible won't be satisfied with the iPad. This seems to be the /. crowd. "I can't install Linux". "But it won't play Borderlands." "I need Eclipse, Putty, and a keyboard at all times." The iPad doesn't cut it for these uses, it's not designed to be a normal computer. Of course, many people who buy netbooks just because they are so cheap get mad when the little 1 GHz Atom processor can't edit 1080p video or play complex games. Netbooks are not full laptops at $400 off, they're a different category.

    If you just want a device to surf on, read your email, and maybe play a few games, the iPad seems to really fit the bill. I know of a couple of my relatives (not young) who this thing would be PERFECT for. No complicated filesystem. No confusing "where'd my program go" 30 window multitasking. The web works, email works, you can type up little things to email people either on screen or with the keyboard dock.

    The thing really sounds like what most people want for a computer. If I didn't keep my laptop next to my couch for surfing, I'd buy one of these and it use it for that use. That alone would be enough to get me to buy it. Since it looks so different, Apple won't have the "this computer is way underpowered" problem, because I don't think anyone will see it as a MacBook Jr.

    I find the iPad really interesting. It may take off like a rocket and change the industry (like the iPhone and iPod) or it could be and interesting thing that sits around but doesn't make a huge impact (like the Apple TV, although that wasn't nearly as groundbreaking, or MS's tablets, which survive but haven't really made a big difference for most people). Either way, this should be fun to watch.

  • by ElectricTurtle (1171201) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:24PM (#31274118)
    Doesn't hatin' on your own customers kind of put you in a similar moral position as those business owners who catered to the gay community in California but then turned around and voted against their equality? 'We'll take your money, but secretly we think you're pathetic...' No wonder you're posting as AC... ;-p

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely, it just seems disingenuous.
  • by dc29A (636871) * on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:27PM (#31274174)

    What makes you think that once Youtube, Vimeo and other sites are comfy with HTML5 the pr0n industry won't follow?

  • Re:Err... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by The End Of Days (1243248) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:27PM (#31274176)

    Are you honestly so egotistical as to believe that your opinions on products are the only ones that count, and anyone who doesn't share your opinions is just following orders of some sort?

  • by Lunix Nutcase (1092239) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:29PM (#31274222)

    People do not care about the approval process until it bites them in the rear; for example, when Apple refuses to approve Google voice for the iPhone. Suddenly, people who never cared about the issue were up in arms.

    Really? Outside of Slashdot and a few other techie sites, I never heard any other iPhone users even care online or people I know in real life.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dragonxtc (1344101) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:33PM (#31274280)
    You forgot about Flash Based Porn
  • by Real1tyCzech (997498) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:34PM (#31274304)

    Can I watch netflix movies?

    Can I surf the flash-gaming sites?

    Can I listen to ShoutCast?

    These are the things my wife does on her netbook.

    Can the iPad do *any* of these things? ...didn't think so.

    App Store? Really?

    FireFox = Free.
    WinAMP = Free.

    Fart App? 99 cents.

    Yeah...I can see it all so clearly now.

  • by piltdownman84 (853358) <piltdownman84@mac. c o m> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:37PM (#31274338)
    I've never understood why there is all this comparison to netbooks. The iPad isn't really competing with the netbook market at all. Its a new advice with a different target market and different feature set. All this comparison is like saying "A Dodge Caravan is go much better than a BMW Z4 Roadster. Its less than half the price, has three times as many seats, a built in cooler and a DVD player for the back seats. Why would anyone buy a Z4 when they could get a Caravan?"
  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by davester666 (731373) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:41PM (#31274402) Journal

    This is hilarious.

    When it was first announced, everybody and their dog figured Apple would charge closer to $1000 for the base model, and now it's hundreds of dollars overpriced at $499.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ryantmer (1748734) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:42PM (#31274418) Homepage

    what I don't like about a netbook:

    keyboard too small for real typing
    not much cheaper than an introductory laptop
    lousy processing and ram compared to same introductory laptop
    made of same low quality parts as same introductory laptop
    windows sucks on small screens

    What I don't like about the iPad:

    No keyboard.
    Not much cheaper than... a netbook (actually, more expensive than most).
    Lousy processing and RAM compared to... a netbook.
    Made of the same low quality parts as... well, all consumer electronics.
    Crippled OS is hardly an OS, on any size screen.

    So... what makes it better than a netbook, again, Apple?

  • by copponex (13876) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:48PM (#31274544) Homepage

    What the hell is all that crap? I just want to browse the web and update my facebook status from the couch without looking like a nerd.

    Apple does not produce computing devices for nerds. They produce computing appliances for people.

    For every action your normal joe wants to do, there is a relatively stable, secure, and predictable application to do it, which integrates well across the entire Apple platform. They deliver a candy coated information experience, not a platform for geeking out. I despise some parts of their business model, but it does seem to work out well for them.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Totenglocke (1291680) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:48PM (#31274554)

    All she does is email, browse the web and chat with Skype.

    So with an iPad she could email, browse the 75% or so of the web that doesn't involve Flash, and not be able to do video calls on Skype. I can sure see the benefit in paying more money for a device that does 75% of what you want it to do just because it's so hard to set up automatic updates....

    If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period. It's akin to saying that "we just need self-driving cars" for incompetent drivers as opposed to just keeping them from getting behind the wheel.

  • by Attila Dimedici (1036002) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:49PM (#31274574)

    Oh, look, someone who doesn't get it. The iPad is not a computer. If you want a computer, buy a computer. You obviously want a computer, based on your list. Don't buy an iPad - it's not the product that's right for you. You'd do about as well buying a dishwasher - it's not the product you want. The iPad is, however, the product that a lot of people will want - people who aren't looking for a computer because the iPad is not a computer.

    Did you even read the summary? If the Ipad is not a competitor to netbooks, how is it going to beat them? If the Ipad is a competitor to netbooks, how is the OPs comment evidence of not getting it? Netbooks are computers, Tim Cook said that the Ipad was going to beat them. That means that Tim Cook apparently thinks that the Ipad is a computer.
    I agree that the Ipad is not a computer. Therefore it is not a competitor to netbooks. It is, also, not cheap, which means once again it is not a competitor for netbooks. But the article we are discussing is talking about the Ipad competing with netbooks, so comments talking about things that netbooks have that the Ipad doesn't are valid.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kkwst2 (992504) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:49PM (#31274576)

    Funny, I thought it was made for a phone.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Duradin (1261418) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:49PM (#31274584)
    For some people here at /. Apple could give you money for taking an iPad (or any other Apple device) and they'd still complain that they didn't get enough money.
  • by natehoy (1608657) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:51PM (#31274620) Journal

    The "Giant iPod Touch" version (no 3G) is $499. Half a grand != "close to a grand", at least not using any math I've ever heard of.

    Granted, it's more costly than your average netbook and has less memory, but it's not meant to be a netbook. It's meant to be a tablet.

    And in the tablet market, $499 is relatively competitive.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sopssa (1498795) * <sopssa@email.com> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:52PM (#31274648) Journal

    No, that was before it was officially announced, with prices and details. Everyone figured it'll be closer to $1000 based on rumors of such device coming from Apple. It was still when everyone thought it would actually have a good hardware, open, as in more closer to OSX than iPhone, OS and good features.

    It wasn't anything like that, but useless device, which is overpriced for what it has actually has or does.

  • by spud603 (832173) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @01:59PM (#31274802)
    I think you miss some of the main selling points of netbooks: they are incredibly cheap, incredibly light, and can still do almost everything you would use a standard computer for (but that couldn't be done on an ipad). These things include
    • writing a report/essay
    • basic statistics work
    • PDF annotation
    • ssh to a more powerful computer

    The people that buy netbooks already have other computers, but want an extremely portable way to do all of the above, and do it using the same software they use on their 'main' computer.

  • by BitZtream (692029) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:01PM (#31274830)

    Most consumers who buy netbooks to web browse and check email, not to use as a desktop replacement. The iPad is just more expensive for the same purpose to most people.

    The iPhone/iPad interface is also about 1 to 2 billion times better than other existing interfaces for most people.

    And there is why it will sell better.

    You think Apple is trying to beat netbooks they way YOU look at them.

    Apple could give a flying fuck about you and everyone else on slashdot.

    They want the people who bought a netbook to browse the web, check email, and potentially buy some books to read (from Apple of course).

    Keep in mind when you make these sort of statements: Not everyone is like you, most people aren't, and won't use their tech gadgets in the same way for the same reasons for you. When you sit back and say 'thats dumb, this other device is way better for me' think for a second ... ITS NOT FOR YOU.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mblase (200735) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:13PM (#31275010)

    If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period.

    Rather than comparing inept computer users to incompetent drivers, you should compare them to drivers who don't remember to get their oil changed or other maintenance done.

    Should those drivers be criticized because they want a digital odometer that says "service needed" every 3,000 miles, and then take it to a mechanic who does the oil and filter work at a higher cost than doing it oneself? Of course not. Not everyone wants to be a mechanic just because they need to drive somewhere.

    Apple wants to sell the iPad to people who don't like upgrading their software, installing from DVDs, or properly connecting a wi-fi router. These skills should not be considered mandatory learning for someone who just wants to email and surf.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:21PM (#31275172)

    If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period.

    To make a car analogy: if someone is so incapable of using a car that they can't shift gears without fucking it up, they don't need a car mechanic, they need to be kept the hell away from cars period.

    You utterly, totally fail to understand how the vast majority of the population views computers and computing: as a tool to do something, while getting out of the way of doing said something. And since the vast majority of the population votes, you will never, ever get your idea to pass. Not unless you're the nation's benevolent dictator, in which case you need to watch out for someone else becoming benevolent dictator by offing your ass.

    The magic in Apple's iPhone and iPad is that they get that. They get that people actually want an appliance to do specific stuff, not a general computing device. And that's why they keep making money hand over fist, to the general surprise of a lot of self-proclaimed computer experts.

  • by Bigjeff5 (1143585) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:38PM (#31275396)

    Why not? As long as he doesn't call them fools to their faces, the hipsters will never know, and they'll never care.

    And Latte's really are marked up that much, I mean seriously, it's about 2 tablespoons of moderate to high grade coffee, which will run you about $0.26 at retail prices, and probably less than that given you'll be buying in bulk. Add in two cups of milk (maybe $0.50 again), a couple shots of syrup, and bam! $6 drink. It takes all of 30 seconds for a professional Barrista to make, at $10 per hour that's $0.08. Of course you've got overhead and such, but depending on the volume you do that can be extremely low. Rough guestimate I'd say it costs between $1 and $2 to make a large double-shot latte, and those sell for $5-$6.

    My rough guesstimate there puts it at anywhere from 300% to 600% markup (as long as you are doing good volume, if your coffee or location sucks it won't work no matter what), and I was probably a little high on materials cost for most places. Pretty good, I'd say.

  • by amicusNYCL (1538833) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:44PM (#31275500)

    Doesn't hatin' on your own customers kind of put you in a similar moral position as those business owners who catered to the gay community in California but then turned around and voted against their equality? 'We'll take your money, but secretly we think you're pathetic...'

    Coincidentally, that sounds a lot like Apple themselves.

    "You don't know how to use a computer and wouldn't be able to manage most basic tasks. Here, try this iPad. It's not a computer, it's magical."

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:46PM (#31275538)

    It's not other-AC's moral obligation to like his customers, only to sell goods that hipsters desire at a price a hipster can afford.

    Try owning a business and only selling to people you like.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dave562 (969951) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:50PM (#31275600) Journal

    If Apple starts to allow multiple third party apps to run at the same time then they are going to lose their "it just works" image. They will have to admit that their OS isn't really better than the other guy's OS because when you get right down it, you can have the best OS in the world, but if a third party developer doesn't follow your programming recommendations, it can lead to a "poor user experience".

    I bought an OSX box a couple of years ago to see what the hype was all about. If you're running only Apple products, it runs fine. As soon as you start running a few other programs that aren't from Apple, it's just another computer. The latest headache I had to help sort out for a friend was the tangled mess that is Apple "Sync Services", Microsoft Entourage, and the Blackberry Desktop software. At least with Windows problems, or Linux problems, you can search for a solution. With Apple problems, often times the "answer" seems to be, "If you were using an iPhone instead of a Blackberry, and Mail instead of Entourage..."

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by John Whitley (6067) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:51PM (#31275620) Homepage

    If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period. It's akin to saying that "we just need self-driving cars" for incompetent drivers as opposed to just keeping them from getting behind the wheel.

    You spoiled little brat. You can't even spin any fiber into thread/yarn, much less weave it into useful fabric or make clothes! You shouldn't even be allowed to wear clothes! Freeze, ya limey bastard!

    There now. History shows that you're being a twit. A major early impact of the industrial revolution was that it stopped the need for virtually *everyone*, regardless of gender, age, etc. to be involved in textile production just to have clothes on their back. Spare time wasn't "spare": you were spinning fiber, male or female, old or young. In short time, those skills practically vanished from the industrialized world due to mass-produced textile products. (It's worth noting that these still are still part of daily life in many places today.)

    In that vein, there's vast room for improvement in computer usability, security, and maintainability. For example, we've been stuck in the WIMP era (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointers), as if that's the be-all, end-all of computer interfaces. Time for some fresh ideas there -- put into production, not just as academic exercises. Eventually many of the "computing skills" we understand now will be as obsolete as floppy disks. It doesn't even matter whether iPad (or ChromeOS, or ...) is "it" or not, just that the ice has been broken. Heed the wake-up call: one-size-fits-all computing is dead. Enter cellphones, Kindles, iPads, PSPs, DSs, and many tools we haven't even thought of yet.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by billcopc (196330) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:53PM (#31275654) Homepage

    Because it doesn't run a broad palette of unverified code rife with vulnerabilities ? Because you can't accidentally install a virus while surfing pr0n ? Because it doesn't run Kazaa ?

    Seems rather obvious, no ?

  • by w3woody (44457) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @02:54PM (#31275672) Homepage

    Every day a little bubble appears telling me my AV definition is up to date.

    The fact that you think this is an acceptable user interface experience goes right to the root of the problem: every day you spend a few seconds managing your machine (by reviewing a message which tells you there is no action to take) rather than focusing on your work or your game. It's a small thing--but bad interface experiences is the accumulation of hundreds or thousands of poorly thought out small things.

    And thinking through those hundreds or thousands of things of small things--apparently to the geek community at large, this is undecipherable magic.

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Buelldozer (713671) <cliff@gindu l i s . net> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @03:49PM (#31276546)

    Where can I buy an iPad?

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by h4rr4r (612664) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @03:50PM (#31276562)

    To make a car analogy: if someone is so incapable of using a car that they can't shift gears without fucking it up, they don't need a car mechanic, they need to be kept the hell away from cars period.

    I totally agree.

    If we had drivers who knew what they were doing the toyota issues would not have killed people.

  • by Buelldozer (713671) <cliff@gindu l i s . net> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @03:53PM (#31276604)

    OT but...

    I don't see any logical incongruity with having a business that caters to the GLT community AND voting against equality. Under the law a business is a distinct entity, as is a private citizen. So it would be perfectly compatible to have a business catering to a demographic that you PERSONALLY do not approve of.

  • by commodoresloat (172735) * on Thursday February 25, 2010 @04:37PM (#31277248)

    Tim Cook is trying to woo investors, not persuade consumers. Trust me, Apple's advertising won't rely on comparing the ipad to a netbook. Apple has already done a remarkable job of advertising this product through its fans (in fact, people have been vocally anticipating the device for over a year before Apple even admitted it existed!); I expect the iPad will do swimmingly in Apple's intended market while slashdotters scratch their heads and complain that they could build their own ipad for a third the price using commodity hardware. Apple is selling an entire user experience, not just a "netbook."

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by node 3 (115640) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @04:46PM (#31277378)

    Because those who lined up for Vista didn't then line up for the newest versions of Exchange and SQL Server as well. The reason we mock Apple fans is that many of them buy *EVERY* *BLOODY* *PRODUCT* Apple releases then proceed to call it "groundbreaking" or such crap.

    Because there were lines for the iPod touch, the unibody MBPs, the MacBook Air, the 16:9 iMacs, the white unibody MacBooks, Aperture, the iLife '09, iPod nano, iPod shuffle, Magic Mouse...

    And you're also quite correct. Many Apple fans have one of each type of Mac, one of each type of keyboard, each iPod (some even have one of each capacity).

    No. The reason you mock Apple fans is because it threatens you that people like something that you don't, but don't stay quiet about it. They call something groundbreaking (like the unibody case on the MacBook Pros, the touch interface of the iPhone, the iTunes+iPod combination, etc.) and you either disagree with them or just don't like that they're right, or whatever, so your only response is to pretend they're just a bunch of fucking retards who'll buy anything with an Apple logo, even a kick in the balls.

    The funny thing is, that not matter how pathetic you think Apple users are, or how pathetic some may actually be, the people who come up with these childish slams are more pathetic still.

  • by copponex (13876) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @05:04PM (#31277598) Homepage

    Perhaps we can change it to "Average Yuppie Joe." The Apple market cap has shown that catering to these rich idiots seems to be very profitable.

    Calling them fashion accessories is a bit over the top. Say what you want about their hardware prices, but they have not only delivered a fairly awesome operating system, but they have destroyed competition in film and post, audio production, and other niche markets. Final Cut and Logic Studio and Aperture are nothing to be sneezed at.

  • by dunkelfalke (91624) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @05:12PM (#31277698)

    Most consumers buy a netbook not as a desktop replacement, but as a portable desktop. They don't need another computer just to web browse and check emails, their current one can do that just fine.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by COMON$ (806135) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @05:18PM (#31277786) Journal
    So... what makes it better than a netbook, again, Apple?

    I think that Palm thought the same thing about the iPod...good thing Palm was right and is currently dominating the market in PDAs. No one cares about interface anyway.

    I will take an even bet with anyone that in 3 years the netbook is dead and we see some really slick slate devices out there. Probably running Android or another flavor of Linux.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 25, 2010 @05:29PM (#31277950)

    Maybe the reason people are comparing it to netbook is because Steve Fucking Jobs did so on stage at the launch. Insightful my ass.

  • Re:$100 discount? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bigjeff5 (1143585) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @05:43PM (#31278190)

    You do realize all of those complaints except multi-touch apply doubly so to the iPad, right? It is a less powerful machine that requires a dock for a keyboard, which isn't very portable.

    This netbook with the keyboard is also about $100 less expensive than an iPad without the keyboard. The screen is only slightly smaller, and a bit lower resolution. Playing video full screen was a problem for the iPad as far as quality goes from the review I read, so I don't think that is as big a bonus as they would like it to be.

    Plus, if you really dig the mobile OS's, with the touchbook you can put Android on it, which IMO is better than the iPhone OS.

    In two months we'll be using something else...

    Uhh, you know the iPad isn't even going to be released for another month at least, and given the way new device releases go you probably won't get your hands on one for another two or three months after that, minimum. Yet again you've listed something that's worse for the iPad and somehow implied it's a positive.

  • by Alistair Hutton (889794) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @06:43PM (#31279062) Homepage
    Maybe if Apple were to stop mentioning netbooks we'd stop mentioning netbooks.
  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Khyber (864651) <techkitsune@gmail.com> on Thursday February 25, 2010 @07:00PM (#31279246) Homepage Journal

    "You've obviously never actually filleted a fish or used a fillet knife."

    You've obviosuly never worked in an oriental restaurant. They use one knife for EVERYTHING.

    Watch Iron Chef (the originals) - many of the professionals there have one large santoku for practically everything. That's a stiff knife, pal. One guy came in with a HUGE 18" blade, and did DECORATIVE CARVING in tiny vegetables.

    If you don't know how to use your tool, you don't need to be wielding it.

    Just speaking as someone whose first job at age 15 was as an apprenticed oriental chef.

  • Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kitkoan (1719118) on Thursday February 25, 2010 @07:57PM (#31279714)

    "Trailing edge"?

    Apple led the charge of SCSI, USB, FireWire, Bluetooth, integrated webcams, multitouch, WiFi, sudden motion sensors, new battery technologies, unibody construction, DVD burners...

    TO start with, USB was developed by Microsoft amongst other company's according to Wikipedia, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus [wikipedia.org] ) so I'm not believing that they led the charge of it. FireWire is made by Apple ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire [wikipedia.org] ), yet isn't the standard option with iPods, iPhones or other major Apple products, USB is. And if a company won't stand by it's own standards with its highest standing products, I wouldn't call that leading the charge. As for your other 'facts', they would take a lot of effort to figure out the truth, and with you blunt mis-understanding of USB alone makes me lean towards you talking whatever you feel without wanting/needing facts.

    Current Macs all have Core2Duo or better. That is by *no* reckoning "trailing edge".

    Since the Core2Duo was made in 2007, and most PC makers use the i3/5/7 chips that are new and faster... that would be considered trailing edge ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#Core_2_Duo [wikipedia.org] )

    Backlit keyboards, mini displayport, magsafe--these, or similar features, are by no means even *remotely* common.

    Mini DisplayPort are Apple tech, so thats more of a 'force upon' then leading edge ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_Display_Port [wikipedia.org] ) Similar to how a lot of Sony products use a Memory Stick. Its not forward thinking, its forward 'pushing'.

    As for a premium, that's absurd. Macs cost similar, and often cheaper, than equivalently specced PCs.

    I always do love this one. Total BS because all Apple users pray to god no one will check. So lets check. I'll compare the best 15 inch MacBook Pro to a Dell Alienware laptop of as similar spec's as I can: (and before I hear the 'Apple makes top quality hardware claims, this PDF comparing laptop hareware: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf [squaretrade.com] )

    Apple MacBook Pro: 15 inch ( http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=MTM3NDczMDg [apple.com] )

    CPU: 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (only option)

    RAM: 8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB

    HD: 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

    Display: 1440-by-900-pixel LED-backlit display

    Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB

    Alienware 15.6 inch laptop: ( http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DKCWFW1&s=dhs [dell.com] )

    CPU (best I could match, Dell doesn't use the older Core 2 Duo): Intel® Core i7-620M 2.66GHz (3.33Ghz Turbo Mode, 4M cache)

    RAM: 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz

    HD: 500GB SATAII 7,200RPM

    Display: WideHD+ 1600x900

    Graphics card: 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 240M (new gen card)

    Apple doesn't state it's battery size, so assumed 9 cell, the best

    Both have wi-fi cards (Apple doesn;t say with one), backlit keyboards.

    Now the Apple, with a smaller screen (pixel size), slower CPU, slower/older graphics card, older gen HD will set you back $2,749.00. The Faster Alienware with a faster CPU, newer graphics card, new gen HD, larger (pixel count) screen will set you back $2,024. Saving more then $700 for a faster laptop over the Apple... I don't see how your last claim works... But pl

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