Gaming the App Store 217
space_in_your_face writes "Want to boost the popularity of your latest iPhone app? Ask Reverb Communications! 'When it comes to winning in the App Store, this PR firm has discovered a dynamite strategy: throw ethics out the window. Reverb Communications, a PR firm that represents dozens of game publishers and developers, has managed to find astounding success on Apple's App Store for its clients. Among its various tactics? It hires a team of interns to trawl iTunes and other community forums posing as real users, and has them write positive reviews for their client's applications. ... Reverb claims that their clients have sold over $2 billion of product under their watch.'"
Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
When in doubt, lie, cheat, and steal. Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
Not news (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:3, Insightful)
seriously, what the hell?
Re:Astroturf... (Score:3, Insightful)
Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
This appears to partially depend on (1) where you want to go and (2) what industry you are traveling in.
Sometimes, strong ethics and morals (not morales :) ) are necessary to get anywhere.
Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:3, Insightful)
seriously, what the hell?
Do you suggest we pretend the evil people don't exist? I imagine the story is intended to out them as the scum they are, not give them publicity.
-Taylor
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:5, Insightful)
Modern snake oil salesman (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:3, Insightful)
I like to read the negative to moderate reviews because they seem to be more honest about potential problems. What do you guys think/do?
I do that as well. I'd rather hear what people don't like about a product I'm interested in than what I already know I'll like about it.
Re:And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you suggest we pretend the evil people don't exist? I imagine the story is intended to out them as the scum they are, not give them publicity.
Trust me they are thrilled to get "bad" press like this. Anyone who hires spammers, SEO outfits, direct mail companies, shills and the like knows full well that these practices are objectionable to most of society. Picking one firm and giving them front page coverage, saying they're the worst of the worst, is just going to send hordes of unscrupulous paying clients to their doors.
Re:Astroturf... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, nobody respects the obvious ambulance-chasing lawyer, but smarter lawyers can be plenty unethical and still look good to most everyone.
Also: the White House, circa 2001-2008. 'Nuff said.
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not so simple. The negative views could be given by people trolling for competitors.
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:3, Insightful)
I like to read some of the realistic sounding reviews at every level. The crazies go both ways, and as long as you can pick them out you can get a pretty good overview of the product.
As nerdy as it is, I think the real reviews of a product tend to make a normal distribution (bell curve).
Yeah, but seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
So what is the value of a dollar? A beer? Nope. A newspaper? Not the New York Times. A pack of gum? Not the fancy "winter-blast" chiclet kind. A comic book? Not in years. Paperback book? Sure, if you can get seven more dollars. Let's see... that leaves us with a can of Coke (but not a bottle), or maybe a candy bar (but not the king sized kind).
But let's raise the stakes a little bit... what's the value of a dollar when you're stuck in an airport? Anyone? Anyone..? So if you can kill a four hour layover in an airport by spending $1 to download a "trivial airport game," I'd say that sounds like a marker for market success, not failure.
Liars (Score:4, Insightful)
I flatly don't believe them.
Why would anybody hire them? Why would you believe and have dealings with a company whose product is explicitly stated as lying and deception?
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sincerity is the secret to success.
Once you can fake that, you've got it made!
Re:Astroturf... (Score:3, Insightful)
Junk like this would be exposed in forum or low voted on popular download site/s.
Why, because the Apple community was so small and the number of developers tiny. Every app got used and people had time to reflect and share their thoughts.
On the phone side Apple is just Microsoft with better spin. The phone herd is ready for "bovine university". From the from the high-density forums to the one click profit profit floor.
It's not really a floor, it's more of a server grating that allows credit card numbers to slide through so it can be collected and exported.
Re:It could be illegal. (Score:3, Insightful)
so if lying is a 'stealth marketing technique' what is stealing? a 'stealth purchasing technique'? I mean, cmon, let's call a spade a spade here...
Re:TFA updated with response from Reverb (Score:3, Insightful)
We do not have hundreds of accounts to âoetrawlâ through iTunes â" itâ(TM)s simply untrue. We have 10 staff members who choose to post on the games when and if they have played the game. We have to buy and play the game in order to have an opinion.
(We do not, however, deny crowdsourcing people with their own iTunes accounts and giving them the software free in exchange for a positive review. We just won't mention any such obvious possibilities.)
This same writer contacted several of our app store developers wanting negative comments from them regarding Reverb. They all gave positive feedback, but the writer left this aspect out of the story.
...because they're customers of the company, and of course they're happy, if it works, which doesn't cast any light on the scrupulousness or lack thereof of the whole operation.
Re:Not news (Score:3, Insightful)
Amazon shouldn't restrict reviews. There's simply too many other places to buy books, music, appliances, etc etc and the reviews of those purchasers have the potential to be every bit as valid and useful as people who bought it directly from Amazon. Assuming that "didn't purchase from Amazon" means "didn't actually buy the product" is naive in that case.
Apple, on the other hand, I agree with you on. So long as their system is so locked down that you basically can't buy things anywhere but through them, restricting reviews to purchasers makes perfect sense. There may be a very small number of people who got the app someplace else and has a legitimate review, but most likely these are people who never bought it.
The only question, I suppose, is whether or not blocking people who didn't buy the product is worth losing potentially legitimate reviews from people who didn't personally buy it but have legitimately used it. Those who use it on a friend's or companies' phone or the like.
Re:TFA updated with response from Reverb (Score:3, Insightful)
3. 1 person=1 iTunes account=1 credit card. We do not have hundreds of accounts to âoetrawlâ through iTunes â" itâ(TM)s simply untrue. We have 10 staff members who choose to post on the games when and if they have played the game. We have to buy and play the game in order to have an opinion.
Yes, but this does not apply to free games. Anyone who knows jack about the AppStore knows that it is the free ("lite") versions of the games that really drive traffic and game popularity. That is what people can download and try without committing to a purchase. If they like the game then they will purchase the full version. Anyone note the cause/effect there? If they like the game they will purchase - thus they will likely give the full, not-free version of the game a good review anyway - they've already tried it, and they wouldn't have bought it if they didn't like it!
So the real value is to astroturf the free, lite versions, because that is where the most download traffic is at. That can be done without purchasing. So Reverb's argument is moot. They very well could have many hundreds of accounts that their 10 staff members use to astroturf the lite versions.
Re:Yeah, but seriously... (Score:2, Insightful)
Lots of beers sell for a buck. But not at the bar.
And why... (Score:3, Insightful)
For every thousand people who read this and say "that's just wrong", there's one or two who says "Hmmm, interesting." And for every few dozen of those, there's an app developer that's saying "Maybe I should find out how much this costs."
Re:Yeah, but seriously... (Score:3, Insightful)
Airports are bad (and loaded) examples as they are captive audiences, the usual rules around supply and demand don't apply so products and services are often priced at many times their value
True. But they are also places people go and spend a lot of time hanging around in, and often they have little choice as to how much time they spend there. When they do go, however, they often tend to have their iPhones with them.
but I suspect you chose the airport for this particular reason.
I chose the airport because the OP described iPhone apps as "trivial airport games."
Telling me what a dollar will not buy is indicative of poor money management and using this as an excuse to justify a purchase is even worse.
Why? Telling me what to spend my dollar on is indicative of self-righteous arrogance, mainly. If it makes me happy to spend a dollar, what is so wrong about that?
Re:$1 apps (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, if I find a game for the blackberry that I like, and that provides me hours of mindless escape -- surely that has value to me. And if I can reward the developer of this game with something as insignificant as a dollar in order to continue playing the game, how is that in any way a bad thing?
I'd further argue that this does not cause the companies to be overvalued. Unlike the recent trend of relying on advertising (literally becoming the middleman in a sale of the attention of other people), here you have a company that is producing something of value that cost actual time and effort. Assuming that they can do so in the future, the same question -- how is this a bad thing?
Re:Astroturf... (Score:3, Insightful)
When in doubt, lie, cheat, and steal. Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
This world is focused on capitalism. Lying, cheating, and stealing are definitely a byproduct of putting money over community and people as a whole.
Yes.. they work. I see it every day when I turn on cspan.
Re:Yeah, but seriously... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Because it is there" is not a good justification. This is called impulse buying and is another huge indicator in having poor money management skills.
Your reasoning is totally bizarre. Buying iPhone games is impulse buying? Did you ever consider that people might buy iPhones instead of other phones because they end up waiting in places like the airport, and they think it's a good deal that they can spend a buck on a game to have some fun with?
Besides, I was not arguing "because it's there." One way to evaluate the true cost of any purchase is to examine the opportunity cost -- that is, the value of the other option, the one you had to give up in order to gain the option you chose. For example, posting on Slashdot costs nothing, but it still has an opportunity cost because all the time you waste posting on Slashdot is time you could spend working and earning money. If you're sitting in an airport, however, and you can't work, and a dollar will basically buy you nothing tangible in any of the stores in that airport with which to amuse yourself, then the opportunity cost of spending a dollar on an iPhone game is pretty low. Sure, you could just sit there like a lump. But again, who are you to say that's a "better idea" than parting with four essentially-worthless quarters?
Not true, people have a choice. In many transfer airports in Asia there is a fast train line directly into the city, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore being the popular stopovers from Australia are good examples.
Bet those trains cost more than a dollar. And the opportunity cost is that you might not make it back to the airport in time and you'll miss your connecting flight.
Face it, you don't really have a point at all. You just like being an insufferable prick. In fact, if you want to know the real value of a dollar, if we were having this conversation in an airport I would gladly give you one if you agreed to go somewhere else.