Low-Income Users Latch On To iPhone 422
narramissic writes "The iPhone crowd is still dominated by affluent males between the ages of 18 and 35, but in a series of surveys ending in August, ComScore found that iPhone purchases grew fastest among people with annual household incomes between $25,000 and $50,000. The growth rate in this group was 48 percent, compared with just 16 percent among people with incomes above $100,000. And the down economy isn't going to turn this trend around, says ComScore Mobile analyst Jen Wu. 'I don't see there's going to be much of a slowdown, just because wireless devices are so much more of a necessity than they used to be,' Wu said."
In other iPhone news, an anonymous reader points out a NYTimes story about the rise in car-related applications and uses for the iPhone, which points out that programmers are just beginning to "appreciate just what can be done with an iPhone and other advanced cellphones that know where they are and just how quickly they are going someplace else." Another iPhone story mentions that "Opera's engineers have developed a version of Opera Mini that can run on an Apple iPhone, but Apple won't let the company release it because it competes with Apple's own Safari browser."
INTERIOR CROCODILE THEATRE (Score:0, Insightful)
Could the free advertising it gets from rap music be a partial cause of this?
Antitrust? (Score:3, Insightful)
Antitrust lawsuit, anybody?
No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just another sad example of the American tendency to live beyond one's means. This is another symptom of the disease that is eating this country: financial illiteracy.
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:3, Insightful)
... ComScore found that iPhone purchases grew fastest among people with annual household incomes between $25,000 and $50,000.
Poor people are poor because they're stupid with their money. If or when the Democrats get control next week, we can see more money going down the poor people money pit: sales of consumer electronics, junk food, fast food, Walmart junk, etc... will all increase. But yet, when something that would reduce conspicuous consumption among folks who really need to save and develop some sort of fiscal discipline, it is shot down as helping the "rich". By the way, most middle and upper class folks need to develop some fiscal responsibility themselves. I've dealt with a few folks who were making mid six figures who can't pay their mortgages now because they've lost their jobs or businesses tanked.
What could do what I say? Ah yes, that's it, the Fair Tax - taxing consumption instead of savings and earning as the current ridiculous system does.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Aha, but market share of what? The browser market? The mobile browser market? The iPhone browser market?
Re:The high cost forced data plan + vioce plan is (Score:2, Insightful)
So get one?
What's holding you back.
bling (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Antitrust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody ever suggested you could run anything on an iPhone, and that makes it no different that most of the other cellular phone devices out there.
No, but the fact that Apple has both the capability and the will to control what they let their customers put on their phones doesn't mean that this isn't a very, very user-hostile move by Apple.
On every phone I've ever owned, I could run any compatible software I wanted.
Iphone is the only phone I've seen where the manufacturer say "Sorry. We will not allow you to run this software on your phone, even though it is compatible, useful and does no harm."
"Fastest Growing" (Score:4, Insightful)
Similarly, it could be the fastest growing because it 'grew' from 100 people to 148 people. Still a meager total, but explosive growth.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody ever suggested you could run anything on Windows, and that makes it no different than most of the other OSes out there. It comes down to the simplest of playground rules:
My ball, my game.
There's a reason we're reminded of the 90's and Microsoft vs Netscape. But hey, at least Microsoft didn't stop Netscape from happening, they just competed unfairly. Apple is doing both -- they're bundling Safari (just like Microsoft bundled IE), and they're actively working to prevent Opera from even being sold on that platform.
The only reason I like Macs is that they tend to work. Apple has been more closed and more anticompetitive than Microsoft ever was -- and I'm not just talking about the iPhone.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Opera (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:4, Insightful)
And who ever considered the iPhone to be a necessity?
I have a wireless device. It cost me $1 when it came with my plan.
One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:5, Insightful)
Horrible decisions made from the financial standpoint.
Still I am curious, how many of these people in the income brackets live at home, did not list their spouse's income as part of it, or share a house/apartment which could minimize their income needs?
I know it seems heartless to some but a lot of people just don't get ahead because of their own actions. Go by an apartment complex and your bound to see many cars that make you shake your head. A great example is where I work. In our own support staff we have two guys with expensive cars, like a fairly current Mercedes or year old BMW 5 series. Throw in the cool cell phone and I just sigh and walk away when they bitch about not having sufficient money to do things other people do. Yet these same clueless individuals will buy into whatever politicians tell them, specifically that somehow its not their fault and its not fair. They really believe this to be true!
An article in the AJC earlier in the year was showing the plight of the homeless in Atlanta, the impact of the story fell on its face as all but two of those pictured had a cell phone - a few were using them when the picture was taken.
What it comes down to is that people fail to set proper priorities. They refuse to understand that they just can't have everything unless they have the real means to do so. Yet instead of spending that very same wasted money on improving their means they squander it forever setting themselves back. We used to be a society which tried to help each other out but that fell by the wayside when many began to demand that help without making any sacrifice themselves.
No, S60 is DRM'ed as well. (Score:4, Insightful)
No you can't. All software that wants to do something "dangerous" on you S60-mobile, like setting the clock, or accessing contact data, MUST be digitally signed. That's great (really, I do like the platform security), but the only Certificate Authority for this is... Symbian. So in the end SYMBIAN decides what may and may not run on YOUR phone.
Yes, Symbian has "open signed", a cheezy web-interface where you can sign unsigned freeware, so it can be installed on YOUR phone, but alas, Symbian is in control here as well.
Don't let the claims of "openess" and "open source" fool you!
Re:Antitrust? (Score:5, Insightful)
Opera is free. Apple are preventing a free and arguably better browser from appearing on their gadget. They bigger the market share apple pick up, particularly real people and not apple zealots, the more shit like this is going to come to ahead. Many people already regard apple as the new MS bastards.
Re:INTERIOR CROCODILE THEATRE (Score:3, Insightful)
It's worked for bullshit vehicles like the Escalade, so I don't know why it wouldn't work for a bullshit smartphone.
Re:bling (Score:5, Insightful)
Bingo. It's the same reason low-income people drive Beamers, Benzes, etc., especially amongst the low-income African Americans and hispanics. They might be livin' in da hood, but they wear more diamonds than anyone in the 'burbs.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? On my Sprint phones the only software available was what Sprint approved. If they didn't like it (say it competed with their wannabe-MP3 service or TV service) they wouldn't approve it.
Cell phone applications having to be approved is quite routine. Smartphones may be different, but with most phones the companies like to lock them down to prevent people from messing with their revenue streams. This is no different.
not Antitrust (Score:5, Insightful)
Antitrust lawsuit, anybody?
Jesus, no. Please go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law [wikipedia.org]
Opera on the iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
I was asked about Opera not being allowed on the iPhone yesterday. My immediate gut reaction was that Apple was being a douche. All my instincts cry out that programmers should be able to put anything they want out there and let the market decide.
I got to thinking about it though. To the best of my knowledge, there is no global preference in place to set which apps respond to which data sources. What I mean is, when I click on a link in an email, Safari opens the page. When I click on a phone number in google maps, an email or a web page, the phone app opens it. Same thing for music, podcasts, videos, etc. You get the idea.
This keeps the phone simple, intuitive and predictable. All the other apps I install are all for doing some *other* specific task than what is provided by the core applications/functionality. What would happen then if I loaded Opera, Konqueror, Firefox, etc. on the phone. Which one would open my web links? Obviously the one specified in my preferences (which don't exist). What if I wanted to open this particular link with FireFox this time? I can't right-click and say open link with. Do I have to quit the program, open preferences and temporarily select Firefox?
I realize that it would be rather simple for Apple to address these issues and add this functionality, but once that camel's nose is under the tent you are now dealing with people demanding a preference and underlying mechanism for modifying the behavior of all the core functionalities. I want Skype to open when I touch a phone number in an email or on a web page (or in my address book), but I only want it to come up when I'm not connected to wireless. When I'm on wireless I want MyVOIP to make the calls. This also applies to which app you want sending emails, text messages, etc.
While the geek in me can get into this sort of configurability, I've already seen the whole other level of complexity added to the preference system with just the addition of push and Exchange connectivity. If users had to go through page after page of preferences just to find the right place to indicate which app they wanted to store their contacts in and have that tie into their Exchange push connection, it would be a nightmare.
I don't think the masses are ready for that or even really want it. That sort of complexity will make the iPhone just like every other smart phone out there. My coworker was bragging up his WinMobile-based smartphone at lunch the other day. He was saying it could do so much more than the iPhone. I don't doubt it, but my god, the gyrations he had to go through to tweak a setting to get it to do things. Just setting up a new wireless connection or a new IMAP email account seemed ridiculously complex. He said it was just due to the fact that he'd downloaded other email apps and tools and that each one had a different place to set up some of the preferences.
Is there a place for a mobile device that lets a geek configure every possible thing and choose exactly which software performed what tasks? Absolutely. That place should rightly be filled by Android and matched with the particular hardware design that that geek has chosen for their particular needs/fetish. I don't think the iPhone is where it belongs.
It may be the height of irony but I can see the iPhone becoming the phone people refer to when they say "Dammit, all I want in my smart-phone is to be able to make calls, surf the web, email, mapping, music, games and movies! I don't want to have to mess with all that other crap." in the same way purists today say "I just want a phone that makes calls."
Re:Antitrust? (Score:4, Insightful)
I have never had any problems installing any apps I wanted on any of my Sprint phones, regardless of where I was getting them from. Sure, they're not in the Sprint App Store but hitting Google and then putting a URL into your cell browser isn't too tough.
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:1, Insightful)
If a homeless person is trying to hunt for a job, what suggestions can you make that are better than a pay-as-you-go plan with a second-hand phone?
Re:Why Jump To (Racist) Conclusions? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Antitrust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? On what grounds could Apple be sued if a user modified their product in a way not approved by Apple?
Old adage (Score:3, Insightful)
"If you want to be rich, sell to the poor. If you want to be poor, sell to the rich."
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's easy to be smart with money when you have a lot of it, you have more choices. Compare the price per ounce of orange soda vs orange juice sometime. Healthy food costs more than unhealthy food, that's why you see all those slender affluent women in the suburbs (plus they have the money and time to excercise) but when you head down to less affluent areas you see more overweight women. No money for healthy food, no money or time for regular pilates and yoga.
Did you know that the government requires "food stamp" (they're now debit cards though) recipients to take a class in how to spend their food dollars before they get their benefit? They say things like "buy healthy food, buy fresh fruits and vegetables, don't buy junk." but every recipient knows that if they followed that advice their benefit wouldn't last the month.
It's folks like you that cause politicians to talk about helping the forgotten middle class? How can the middle class be forgotten when everyone talks about them and wants to cater to them. It's the poor and lower class that are truly forgotten. When's the last time you ever heard a politician say, "hey let's index the minimum wage to inflation and the CPI and make it retroactive to 1980" or "Let's increase the "food stamp" benefit so that people can actually afford to follow the food buying advice we give them." or "Hey lets tighten up labor laws so we don't have grocery chains hiring teenagers because they can: pay them less, know they're less likely to unionize and are less likely to complain about sexual harassment or bad workplace conditions."
My Karma Killer for Today (Score:2, Insightful)
Article- "Opera's engineers have developed a version of Opera Mini that can run on an Apple iPhone, but Apple won't let the company release it because it competes with Apple's own Safari browser"
Slashdot- "So what. It's their phone, they can do whatever they want. No one ever said the iPhone would run every app. Uncle Steve is just acting in our best interests"
But what if......
Article- "Opera's engineers have developed a version of Opera Mini that can run on an Windows Mobile, but Microsoft won't let the company release it because it competes with Microsoft's own IE browser"
Slashdot- "Christ on a cracker! Is there no end to their greed? Apple would never do anything like this! It's my phone! I bought it! I should be able to do whatever I want with it! Information wants to be free! "
That's why I just come here for the girlies....the discussion has just become way too predictable :)
Re:Low income means a lot of things (Score:4, Insightful)
And how many of you have some expenses subsidized by affluent parents?
Re:Antitrust? (Score:5, Insightful)
that's the carrier locking you in, not the handset manufacturer. this kind of blatantly anti-consumer policy may be routine in the cellular service industry, but Apple is setting a new precedent for it in the handset manufacturing industry. so now consumers have to put up with, not just being screwed over by their cell phone carrier, but also by their handset manufacturer? this seems like a new low in consumer rights/freedom. Apple seems bent on going in the exact opposite direction with the iPhone as Google is going with the Android platform.
hopefully with the rising popularity of municipal WiFi & WiMax, the growing movement behind open spectrums/networks, and the increased focus on wireless broadband technology, we'll eventually see closed/proprietary cellular networks replaced with VoIP over open wireless networks.
when ubiquitous open wifi access becomes a reality we'll start seeing wireless VoIP handsets replace conventional cell phones that have to be approved (and locked down) by cellular carriers. when that happens it'll only be handset makers who are able to deny users the freedom to install/run the applications that they want on their handsets. so if manufacturers go the Android route, users will have complete freedom & control over how they use their phones, whereas if Apple's attitude catches on user will be stuck in the same situation as before.
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:1, Insightful)
Orange juice is only marginally better than orange soda, water is free and all your body needs.
If you spend your food $ on tap water, brown rice and dried beans, you'll get far better value for your money than any fast food and far healthier than than the overpackaged "health" foods those rich folk are eating.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:3, Insightful)
what does liability or support have to do with banning competing software?
are you saying that just because an application doesn't compete with one of Apple's native applications it won't cause any problems? or that just because Opera competes with Safari that Apple will be held responsible for problems with Opera?
that makes no sense whatsoever. the fact that all iPhone applications have to meet with their approval makes them more liable for damage done by these applications than if they let developers freely distribute their own software outside of the App Store. and prohibiting applications just because they compete your own software does not ensure a better user experience.
this has nothing to do with quality assurance. your grasping at straws to justify Apple's blatantly anti-competitive practices.
Re:How can they afford the monthly charges? (Score:1, Insightful)
>What!?! How can this group afford the monthly charges?
Many of them do not have a land line. Land lines in the US (at least where I live) cost about US$100 per month for approximately the same telephone features that an iPhone has. An iPhone may actually be the economical choice for some people.
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:5, Insightful)
I had no problem eating well when I was a poor college student. For me it was easier to eat well when I was poor because all the pre-made frozen/boxed/canned meals were unaffordable. Now I have to work quite a bit harder to avoid the temptation to simply let Tombstone and friends do all my cooking for me.
The poor people I know who eat like crap don't do it because they can't afford better. They do it because they have no willpower. They not only eat junk food, they eat out for junk food. Nobody who can afford to eat regularly at McDonald's is going to have problems affording healthy food.
And really, I don't buy your argument at all. Eating healthy is harder if you're a lazy poor person. But potatoes, beans, and in-season vegetables are all cheaper than junk food.
Oh, and food stamps? I don't live in an area with a lot of food-stamp recipients. But the last time I saw someone use food stamps at my local grocery store, she was buying two large bottles of Odwalla juice, clocking in at something like $15 total for perhaps half a gallon of juice. Obviously she's having no trouble affording healthy food!
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a job, I work as a PA to the disabled. I made less than $16000 last year. Do you know why it pays so low? Because the majority of people who do it in the cities are african american women. And thusly the work is devalued.
No. The pay is so low because there's a greater supply of would-be PAs there there is a demand for them. Contrast with, say, an accountant: it's hard to become one, so the supply stays relatively low and they get more pay.
Drop the wanna-be victim crap. You chose to work in a low-skill job and can't expect to get paid a lot for it. I won't bother replying to your failed logic tying lesbians to social work.
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:3, Insightful)
This is just another sad example of the American tendency to live beyond one's means. This is another symptom of the disease that is eating this country: financial illiteracy.
You give them too much credit. Another problem is that people who are on welfare, who need help buying groceries, may be buying these phones. Well, we are buying these phones for them in essence. That symptom's disease can be described as "we deserve everything but we don't want to pay for it so let the government help us do everything". Maybe that would be considered financial ignorance or dependence?
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:3, Insightful)
You're guilty of extrapolating from one incident and assuming much about her lifestyle. Could have been a one time splurge you know. Would you want to eat beans and rice for every meal every day?
I would not, but I would never ever spend any money on anything made by Odwalla.
I make close to six figures and I would never even consider spending $15 on juice.
So I don't care if it's a one-time splurge or a regular thing. Either way it says nothing good about her. From the poor people I know, a lot of why they remain poor is because they frequently make "one-time" splurges. Years later they still have no money, and they wonder why....
Food stamps are paid for by tax money. That woman essentially spent fifteen dollars of my money on something I personally consider far too expensive to purchase even though I almost certainly make far more money than she does.
It's simply terrible financial planning.
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:4, Insightful)
No. The pay is so low because there's a greater supply of would-be PAs there there is a demand for them. Contrast with, say, an accountant: it's hard to become one, so the supply stays relatively low and they get more pay.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Group homes for disabled folk are constantly understaffed because they can't hire people for the wages they pay, same goes for nursing homes. CIL's (Centers for indepentent living, agencies that advocate for disabled folks) are constantly trying to recruit PA's and match them to people who need them, and there aren't enough because it pays crap and the work is hard. Accountants sit in an air conditioned office all day hitting numbers on a keyboard and reading. Folks like me wipe your grannies or your relative with cerebral palsy's ass, lift them in and out of wheelchairs and keep them company so they don't get depressed. The job is a-fucking stressful, but it needs to be done.
It's not low skill, I have to keep an eye out for all sorts of medical issues, know about medications and keep track of all sorts of information. I don't see why what I do should be valued less. We as a society should be judged on how we treat our weakest and vulnerable members. As for lesbians and social work, you don't know too many social service types do you. Go visit social service agencies, you'll see. I know one thing you won't see much of, straight men.
Re:My Karma Killer for Today (Score:3, Insightful)
The average person does not give a damn about choice if the default offerings are good enough.
BTW. Have you tried Opera lately on any platform? I've noticed that it does not seem to really "fit" in with the UI or user experience of any of the platforms it's on. This is one of the reasons why opera is not allowed on the iPhone. The other reason has do with added complexity/unpredictability of behaviour when clicking on links in other apps on the iPhone if more than one browser was present. Remember the KISS principle?
Part of Apple's new found success has to do with the adherence to the KISS principle. If you want complexity, get a windows or one of those linux based phones.
Re:That's Medium, Not Low, Income (Score:3, Insightful)
here is where we run into problems. Everybody thinks they're middle class. I remember watching some documentary where they asked people what class they belonged to. Practially every one said some kind of middle class. They they asked the actual income. It turned out that they had people under the poverty line and millionaires claiming to be middle class.
here in america, no one wants to admit they're affluent, and poor people don't want to admit that either since there's such a stigma (you've seen what some of the other commenters think about the poor) So I'd wager, that your geeky acquaintances are more affluent than you think they are, not rich, but affluent. You also have to keep in mind that middle class is affluent to those in the lower class.
Re:INTERIOR CROCODILE THEATRE (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, your bullshit answer doesn't really fly with me. (How comparing an Escalade to an iPhone makes any kind of sense is beyond me? But it got modded +4 Insightful, so I'll bother responding.)
Almost all the satisfied iPhone owners I know who purchased one for PERSONAL use, vs. business use, fall into the wage category mentioned. ($25K - $50K salaries)
None of these folks are interested in driving big, flashy SUVs, though - nor could most of them even afford the gas or personal property taxes on one!
The people complaining that the iPhone isn't as "open" as some Nokias or other smartphones completely miss the point. MOST customers are interested in what a phone lets them do, easily, out of the box. Once they're sold on that, and own/use the phone for a while - they get familiar enough (and maybe even bored enough?) with what's on it that they become motivated to install additional applications. Unlike other phones, the iPhone already uses the iTunes music store as a delivery mechanism -- a tool the "masses" are largely familiar with using already.
Once again, ease of use and "quality of presentation" trumps pure "feature set". This is why Apple is continuously successful, despite some of the "geek" types and cheapskates panning everything they do.
And as others pointed out, the iPhone really isn't that expensive a device in the grand scheme of things. Most people earning $25K to $50K annually that I know already spend more on a monthly cable bill than what the phone subscription costs. Most iPhone games are what? About $5 each? That's sure cheaper than those $60 Playstation 3 and XBox 360 titles that the same demographic buys quite a few of.
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:1, Insightful)
If you don't like your job, quit already. You aren't a slave.
The low pay has nothing to do with your race or your gender. It has everything to do with the fact that you are willing to work at that rate.
Repeat after me, "I am not a victim. I am not a victim. I am not a victim...."
Re:iPhone Niche Product (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Antitrust? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:3, Insightful)
Group homes for disabled folk are constantly understaffed because they can't hire people for the wages they pay, same goes for nursing homes. CIL's (Centers for indepentent living, agencies that advocate for disabled folks) are constantly trying to recruit PA's and match them to people who need them, and there aren't enough because it pays crap and the work is hard.
Economically speaking, there are enough. If there weren't, those places would pay more to hire more. There may not be as many as you'd like to help with your shift - and that's a perfectly valid complaint - but your employer has exactly as many as they're willing to pay for.
Folks like me wipe your grannies or your relative with cerebral palsy's ass, lift them in and out of wheelchairs and keep them company so they don't get depressed. [...] It's not low skill
Point, set, and match. But your fundamental misunderstanding is that "low skilled job" is economist jargon for "something the average person can be easily trained in". All of the mental labor aspects you list could be readily learned by most people.
I don't see why what I do should be valued less.
I already answered: because of supply and demand. If there were 1,000,000 unemployed neurosurgeons, you'd be able to hire one for $10 an hour.
Dr. Pangloss? (Score:2, Insightful)
Dr. Pangloss, is that you? I thought you'd been hanged in Lisbon!
Re:One of the reason many poor stay that way (Score:3, Insightful)
No. "I'm" going to pay more to get someone else to do it. If "I" can't afford to, I wipe her ass myself. If I don't want to, grandma gets a disease and dies.
It starts paying better.
Re:Antitrust? (Score:2, Insightful)
Many people already regard apple as the new MS bastards.
Looking just at their actions, Apple makes MS look pretty saintly, and you can imagine how hard that is to do. Only reason that it isn't like that in terms of effect is the number of machines MS has.
Re:INTERIOR CROCODILE THEATRE (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:3, Insightful)
Fattier meat isn't a problem for eating healthy, you can often remove a lot of that depending on how you cook it, and even if you can't, simply use less. In the end, meat is completely optional anyway.
You're correct that juice is more expensive than soda, but water is cheaper than both. Juice is also completely optional. Tap water is completely serviceable, and even if our hypothetical poor people somehow live in a place where the tap water is undrinkable, filters or cheap store-brand bottled water bought in bulk will still undercut soda by a huge amount.
Dessert is also optional. See where I'm going with this?
As for potatoes, beans, and vegetables being cheaper, I try to buy my vegetables for $1/pound or under, and always manage no more than $2/pound even on expensive weeks with no sales. I could easily manage less if I cared to eat more of my less preferred vegetables such as cabbage. Potatoes I rarely even see at over $1/pound, and often pick up for significantly less. Can't remember what I last paid for beans as I don't buy them that often, but it's in a similar range and they have the distinct advantage of being dry, and so weighing less for the same nutritional value.
And let's not forget rice. I buy good rice in bulk for fifty cents a pound. If you don't insist on stuff with Thai writing on it then you can get it for a fair bit less.
I can't recall ever seeing junk food sell for $1/pound. Most of the time it's more like $3-4/pound. Now I'll admit that they probably have more satiating power due to being mostly solid with little water content compared to vegetables, but even so I don't see it ever being cheaper to feed yourself on junk food.
As for Odwalla, do you believe the label on everything? "Health food company" means that they have realized that the people who were hippies in the 60s are now well-off but still gullible and are an excellent source of revenue, and that a lot of their children have inherited these traits and are also an excellent source of revenue. Drinking Odwalla doesn't make you healthier. It makes you poorer and more pretentious, nothing more. If you really want to get healthy, skip the insanely expensive orange juice and just eat the orange. Yes, oranges are expensive, but at the typical price my local store charges, oranges are still significantly cheaper than Odwalla.
I don't know any poor people who would spend $15 on juice either. I just saw one once. But I do know people who are poor or simply not very financially well off (but not to the extent that I'd call them poor) who suffer from far more financial difficulty than they need to because they tend to buy stuff like that, even if they don't go to that extreme.
Re:INTERIOR CROCODILE THEATRE (Score:4, Insightful)
There is always one of you in every argument. Honestly, do you actually see racism in that comment?
Re:No money? Just use a credit card! (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh please. I cook from scratch constantly. And I do it for two reasons: first, I like to cook and I like the results. Second: it is vastly cheaper than buying everything pre-made.
I know what cheese costs per pound. About $4.50 when I buy it.
I wanted to inject some actual number into this, so I went to peapod.com and checked it out. They should be fairly representative, despite being a delivery service, as my impression is that they simply charge the same prices as the Giant stores which run the service.
The best price I could find on Kraft Mac and Cheese was $5 for 36.2oz, about 14 cents/oz. It contains 12 servings at 390 calories for about .1 cents per calorie.
Next up, store brand elbow macaroni, 16oz for $1.29 or 8 cents/oz. It contains 8 servings at 218 calories for about 0.08 cents/calorie Of course I would not limit myself to macaroni and would choose any pasta if I really wanted to save money, but this seems to be the best price for pasta on peapod.com anyway.
And now cheese. In the interests of preserving our health, I'll skip over the "cheese food" and go for the actual big chunks of real cheese that Giant sells for $4.33/pound if you buy it 2 pounds at a time. Packaging says 24 servings at 110 calories which works out to 0.16 cents/calorie.
So per calorie the Kraft package is a bit more expensive than the pasta and a bit less expensive than the cheese. Of course the Kraft package is mostly pasta, not cheese. It probably has some other stuff besides just cheese for the mix, but on the other hand there's absolutely no requirement to produce an identical meal to what you get from a box, just a serviceable one. Elbow macaroni and some cheese on top is not particularly nutritious, but it's at least better than the Kraft box. To cut costs further, substitute rice ($4 for 5 pounds on peapod, half that cost or better when bought in bulk from a better place) for the pasta. Put those savings into some carrots or other cheap vegetables and you still have a meal that costs less and is not horrendously bad for you. It may not taste as good, but so it goes.