Toxic Fumes From Mac Pros? 267
Posted
by
CmdrTaco
from the that-might-explain-john-hodgmen dept.
from the that-might-explain-john-hodgmen dept.
Fanboi Killa writes "Apple is investigating damning claims, published in a leading French newspaper, that its computers emit a toxic odor containing chemicals including the cancer-causing benzene. Apple has not denied the accusations. Its spokesman, Bill Evans, told Macworld the company had not found any evidence to support the claim but Apple would continue to investigate. Posts on Apple's own discussion boards suggest the Mac maker knew about potentially toxic odors being linked to its computers as early as December last year."
Denied it? You bet. (Score:5, Insightful)
Saying "Apple has not denied the allegations" is sensationalistic, and doesn't belong in the summary. They "found no evidence", which, logically, is as strong a denial as can possibly be made.
Re:Toxic odor??? (Score:4, Insightful)
erm... vista lcd? (Score:1, Insightful)
Am I the only one that noticed that in the article, the screen of the machine is showing a Vista interface?
Re:Denied it? You bet. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if the Greenpeace lab did detect chemicals with known health risks you still need to know the concentrations.
You can get a all sorts of poisonous fumes coming off of anything with silicon caulk -- like aquariums -- especially when they get warm. Good stuff like toluene and ethylbenzene -- just not in concentrations that can actually harm you.
I'm NOT trying to claim there is no problem. I'm just saying that there is nothing from the article to support that there IS a problem either -- just some anecdotes and a bit of scientifically illiterate journalism.
With the strong smells coming off some machines, it is worth running a few tests to make sure that whatever is being emitted is not coming off at dangerous concentrations. In the meantime, though, not much to see here.
Denying the Accusations? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would the author of the summary prefer if Apple denied the allegations without investigating the matter?
Journalistic Integrity (Score:4, Insightful)
""My entire room smells bad and I have had to resort to a few air fresheners just to be able to work on it," one report read."
"I recently have had a bird die 'mysteriously' which was caged near my MacPro which has had the terrible smell for months. The vet said it was likely he inhaled something toxic!!!"
Both of those "quotes" or "reports" are pulled from the Apple forum. With no follow-up, no real names, and no fact checking. I guess it's good that they did in fact link to the posts... I'm sad to see Slashdot posting this article.
Unusual manufacture, or sensitive users? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can imagine that people would be more apt to notice galling details in a machine they paid over 2000 for, but I am hard pressed to believe that the mac pro is actually emitting any chemicals that numerous other machines wouldn't also be. PCB manufacturing isn't all puppies and roses, and everybody's PCBs are manufactured in essentially the same way.
Where and how well did they look? (Score:5, Insightful)
``They "found no evidence", which, logically, is as strong a denial as can possibly be made.``
No, as strong a denial as can possibly be made is "That is incorrect. It is not true. Our products do not emit the fumes referred to."
All "found no evidence" means that where they looked, using their methods, they couldn't find the fumes.
I'm not saying they -didn't- launch a thorough investigation, but there's nothing in particular to indicate that they did, either. Certainly there's people with complaints.. unless they're all making things up, I suspect that their "[continued] investigation" will dig up some particular packaging material or electronics supplier that happened to have a bad batch.
Ratio (Score:3, Insightful)
There could be a link.
Re:Where and how well did they look? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually 'found no evidence' is the strongest possible scientifically justifiable statement.
You cannot ever prove that the machines do not, and have never, emitted such fumes, unless you have monitored each and every computer continuously with a perfectly sensitive detector (which is not possible to build...).
Re:Don't worry (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Denied it? You bet. (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple even replaced the power supply and subsequently the entire mac because of "smell". I call that a little service.
Re:Journalistic Integrity (Score:5, Insightful)
""My entire room smells bad and I have had to resort to a few air fresheners just to be able to work on it," one report read."
"I recently have had a bird die 'mysteriously' which was caged near my MacPro which has had the terrible smell for months. The vet said it was likely he inhaled something toxic!!!"
Bearing in mind that this is Greenpeace, I'd be more inclined to suspect unwashed hippie stink.
The dose is the poison (Score:5, Insightful)
100 spin points to Greenpeace for changing VOC from "volatile organic compound" to "volatile organic contaminant", by the way. It's nice to know that I can order in 99% pure bottles of "contaminant" from Sigma, or indeed that my air freshener is busily filling my surroundings with "contaminants".
Like, duh, dude (Score:3, Insightful)
What did you think that "new computer smell" is? Volatile organic chemicals, including benzene!
Once again we see that by mentioning Apple by name (especially in an environmental story) can magically make a pointless story into front page news...
Re:Denied it? You bet. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Journalistic Integrity (Score:2, Insightful)
I find it weird that one brings a dead bird to a vet.
Come on, wake up. There are several good reasons to take it to the vet.
1/ To find out if it died of some 'bird condition' which might kill your other birds or any replacement bird.
2/ To find out if it died from something like Carbon Monoxide poisoning due to a faulty gas appliance, which might subsequently affect the house's human occupants (maybe fatally) if not fixed. Ever hear of 'the canary in the mineshaft'?
3/ To find out (specificlly in this case) if it died of 'toxic Apple fumes' so you could sue Apple.
It's true that the vet probably couldn't do a full post-mortem, but they could give you an initial opinion and arrange to send the body off for further tests if you thought it was worth it.
Re:Congratulations, plastic is dirty (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Where and how well did they look? (Score:3, Insightful)
Both statements are true. "found no evidence" isn't the strongest possible denial, while it -is- still the strongest scientifically justifiable statement. The problem with the former is that you can say it all you want, but you can't ever be 100% sure of it - as you pointed out. The 'problem' with the latter is that we don't know what their scientific justifications are.. or even whether they were scientific. If the investigation was asking a major client if any of their users complained of smells or headaches after installing the machines, and that major client says "nope", you can make the statement that you "found no evidence".. but I wouldn't particularly call it a conclusion reached by scientific procedure.
Re:The dose is the poison (Score:2, Insightful)
"100 spin points to Greenpeace for changing VOC from "volatile organic compound" to "volatile organic contaminant", by the way. It's nice to know that I can order in 99% pure bottles of "contaminant" from Sigma, or indeed that my air freshener is busily filling my surroundings with "contaminants"."
Greenpeace is to the environmental movement as nuclear power is to the power generation industry: useful if properly handled, dangerous if misapplied, and in either case you don't want to get any on you.
Re:Denied it? You bet. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention that the tests were run by Greenpeace, and they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. In conclusion, this is a stupid story written by stupid people and the massive attention it has received in the press just goes to prove that there are a lot of stupid people out there.
Re:Denied it? You bet. (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like they corrected that.
You know, for people who are so unwilling to let us edit or delete our own posts, they sure are willing to make corrections to their stories without noting that there even was one.
From the Slashdot FAQ:
Will you delete my comment?
No. We believe that discussions in Slashdot are like discussions in real life- you can't change what you say, you only can attempt to clarify by saying more. In other words, you can't delete a comment that you've posted, you only can post a reply to yourself and attempt to clarify what you've said.
In short, you should think twice before you click that 'Submit' button because once you click it, we aren't going to let you Undo it.
Think twice, indeed.
Re:List of diseases caused by Macintosh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Don't worry (Score:4, Insightful)