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The Almighty Buck Businesses Apple

The Impact of Low Salaries At Apple 782

Posted by kdawson
from the baby-needs-a-new-pair-of-shoes dept.
orenh writes "Recent data indicate that Apple engineers have significantly lower salaries than their Silicon Valley peers: $89,000 at Apple, versus $105,000 at Yahoo and $112,000 at Google. Paying lower salaries had a major impact on Apple's bottom line when it was struggling in the market up until 2004. But now that Apple is highly profitable, these lower salaries are no longer a factor in Apple's success. Will Apple have to raise salaries to match the market rate, or face defections?"
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The Impact of Low Salaries At Apple

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  • by TNOVA (546953) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:02PM (#23831871)
    It's not always just the salary. There are many compensation factors- stock options, even if they are backdated and the 15% employee discount on hardware! And when you get bored at work, where else can you look at Hypercard source code?
  • Look at the stock (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:10PM (#23831967)
    I joined Apple 5 years ago, and received some options as a hiring bonus. The stock is now worth 2000% of what it was.

    That's why you don't hear me complaining about salaries.

  • by maynard (3337) <j@maynard@gelinas.gmail@com> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:13PM (#23831999) Journal
    He loved it. The only reason he quit was that his wife took a position in Boston and there was no comparable position for him at Apple over here. So he took another position, reluctantly.

    He said it was the best job he'd ever had.

    I've never worked for Apple, so ... \*shrug\* that's all you get.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:18PM (#23832051)

    If you're comparing, say, the guy who designs the box that the iPod comes in to the guy who designs Google's customized Linux kernel, then it's not even close to comparable.
    You are right. the iPod box is one of the greatest things I've ever seen, Seriously. You might laugh it off, but Apple doesn't. Every product I've ever unboxed from them is really well done and thought out. It's clear that Apple intentions are for you to have a good experience from purchase, to opening, to use.
  • Re:Free iPhones! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 2nd Post! (213333) <gundbear@pacREDHATbell.net minus distro> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:24PM (#23832155) Homepage
    Speaking of marketshare then, here is where Apple is currently leading:
    iTunes Store #1 music retailer, relies on QuickTime
    iPod #1 MP3 player, relies on iTunes and QuickTime

    The iPhone is quickly rising, so it may, in a few years, become the #1 smartphone, with heavy reliance on Safari Mobile, OS X Mobile, and of course, iTunes and QuickTime.

    So to put your post in perspective: If you want to be in consumer electronics, web services, online stores, consumer applications, or media players, you want to work at Apple.

    I mean, you have heard of the iPod, iTunes, and iPhone, right? Nearly everyone who uses an iPod uses QuickTime, and there over 170m sold, plus 6m iPhones, that suggests nearly 1/6 of the US population is using iTunes and therefore QuickTime
  • by SeaFox (739806) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:30PM (#23832225)
    Defend that the engineers continue to work at Apple despite lower than average salaries? Nobody's making them stay, and with Apple on their resume they could get work other places quite easily. This isn't like Wal-Mart dragging down the wages of an entire town.

    If anything, Yahoo should question why they're paying their engineers so much.
  • MOD UP (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall (25149) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:40PM (#23832357)
    This factor was obvious to anyone who has worked at a large company before. Many of the people working at Apple right now are probably doing so out of goodwill!

  • by $random_var (919061) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:44PM (#23832427)
    Southwest Airlines has always paid less for just about every single position than the industry standard, from the CEO to the pilots to the attendants. Yet every time SA is hiring for a new position, they'll have dozens or hundreds of people from the other airlines interview for it. Why? Because working at most airlines is a crappy, thankless job, and at Southwest it's fun.

    Not sure how well that applies here though, as Google has a reputation for being pretty fun while Apple has a reputation of having people scream at you when your project is late or experiencing difficulties. I guess some people are gluttons for pain ;-)
  • by countSudoku() (1047544) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:50PM (#23832503) Homepage
    Well, I'll bite. I must be fucking King of the Fanboys and a spoiler to the anti-fans, because I've worked for Apple Computer, Inc. twice. Once as a contractor in the '80s and another time as a real employee (#17xxx) during the early '90s. This was near the start of my career, so my pay was pretty low to begin with, but not bad for starters. This was during the time of John Sculley and I worked in all the engineering departments as I was primarily a network guy at that point. This brought me in contact with *everyone* who was *anyone*. I got to work for and meet several of the folks who came over from Xerox PARC in the original Macintosh design days. I have many early rev motherboards and one from Employee #4 (who's name I forget now, I think it was Bill Atkinson, but I'm probably wrong, might be Chris Espinosa too) when he vacated his Mariani One cube. I've personally met John Sculley, Jean Louis Gassee, Larry Tesler and many of the engineers and software folks responsible for the original PowerBook. They designed and built it just upstairs from my cube and I got to see many of the early prototypes. So, I might have a clue about how working at Apple is more than just a pay check. For those that would think that, just skip along to the next silly "Macs are too expensive" comments you poor bastard. Working at Apple can be best described as *AWESOME*!!!1! It's still on my list of best jobs ever and here are some of the perks: loan-to-own hardware (a new system for about 50% off retail), good discounts on all the latest hardware that's been in the channel long enough for the employees to finally get one, TONS of free T-shirts, all access pass to the site licensed software archive! (how did I get PhotoShop for free?), great parties, really nice people to work with (just don't expect them to make it thru the parking lot without blocking the way while having a conversation. must be an engineer thing), did I mention TONS of free T-shirts?, all the Apple IIs and Mac Pluses you can eat!, more T-shirts, more free software, lots of people who helped start the computer industry just right there for you to talk to. Even during my time there the name of Steve Jobs would come up in conversation and many of the engineers I talked to were just hoping that he would come back and correct the company's direction and failing product lines. Like the old ugly beige boxes. That crap that looks like what Dell spits out now and calls a computer is what Apple did wrong in the early '90s and made up for, almost too much, with the colorful iMacs. It's been fun to watch Apple come back big with the iMac, and again with the iPod and Intel Macs. The prestige of working for the company that sets the standard in high-end design and computing is nothing to scoff at. As a child growing up in Silicon Valley it was my dream to someday work at Apple, and I did it. It's a great place to work, if you want to work for the best and brightest. Just don't expect to become a millionaire like many of the early employees did. You have to be an "early adopter", a visionary, or just plain lucky to get in on the ground floor of something that became more than just another computer company in the valley.
  • by Wee (17189) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:55PM (#23832551)
    People love working for Google, but my friends there tell me they work 70+ hrs/week.

    The only people working 70+ hours/week at Google are the folks nearing a deadline, putting out a fire, or dealing with some other emergency. Some other folks do get close to that, however. The fresh out of college, in-a-new-town sort of folks have no life and so they work all week. Google gives them dinner (though I suspect dinner service will be stopping soon; shortly before I left, they were sending out surveys to see how they could "serve you better"), there are showers, and if you're young and energetic you can hook up with another geek. You get a few years before you burn out, so these guys are fine; they'll learn.

    The other ones working insane hours are the people that want a pay raise. You have to get promoted to get a raise at Google. And since promotions are essentially popularity contests, you need to Be Seen (and be seen as a go-getter). Since I'm getting up in years, and I have a family life I enjoy, I never bothered to nominate myself for a promotion. It meant a few years without a raise, but the stock did well so it was a wash in my mind. The bonuses were fairly generous anyway.

    The final group working long hours are those who are doing a 20% project. These are few and far between, the 20% project being primarily a myth to entice people into applying for a job. (I did a lot of interviewing, and about half the interviewees would ask about 20% projects, what mine was, etc. I could never quite bring myself to lie to them and say that there was ever the slightest chance they'd get to choose and work on a 20% project). There's been a real severe crackdown on 20% time. There's just less need for a "throw everything at a wall, see what sticks" mentality. They have a core set of products, so what you'll see from here on out is acquisitions as a way to get into offering new products/services, and add-ons to existing products (new features in Google maps, etc). There's actually a little room for 20% time in the latter areas, but the barrier to entry is non-trivial. Long gone are the days when you could host some new whizz-bang idea on your workstation or a borrowed machine in a coloc. If you want to integrate with existing services, you have to speak borg, borgmon, etc.

    Anyway, there are a lot of people who put in a normal working week at Google an dare perfectly happy. They won't get promoted as often (or ever), and they won't get involved with the internal Google hip-crowd, but they can have happy, productive careers there. It's actually a pretty non-stressful place to work, once the golden handcuffs come off. I don't know that I'd work there again, but it's a fun place to be, with a lot of energy about the place.

    As far as Apple, the stuff I was hearing is that there's a lot of fear for one's job, everyone needs to swear allegiance to the Cult of Steve, etc. I gather it's not a very fun place to work, and I gather that long work weeks are all but mandatory. That could just be sour grapes from overworked engineers, though.

    -B

  • by prockcore (543967) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @07:55PM (#23832553)

    For some, it's the most important thing, but for others, once they have enough to satisfy their material needs and current wants


    True, but those salaries don't meet their material needs.

    Median cost of a home in Cupertino: $649,000.
    Median mortgage payment: $2,145

    The rule is, you take your annual salary ($89,000), you take 28% of that, and divide by twelve, and that is your upper bound for mortgage payment ($2,076).

    Want to work for Apple? Odds are you'll be renting.
  • by jaguth (1067484) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:01PM (#23832617)
    Whats so cool about apple? The gadgets they use come attached with ridiculous policies. Earlier, you could be a proud user of the new iPhone, but only with AT&T... oh, and its against the EULA to unlock it for use with other carriers. Well thats frigging dandy. And how about that cool SKD? Hows that coming along? ooooh, i can download it for free! But if I want documentation, its $99! Awesome! Want to run more then one app at a time? nopers, sorry. How about some cool real-time guidance? gps? nope, not allowed. Apple can suck it.
  • All I can say is... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by certain death (947081) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:05PM (#23832649)
    Think Tom Cruise staring in "The Firm"!!! I worked for them for a short time, and things were just a bit to cozy for me. I would point out a security flaw, and they would start with the Jedi Mind Tricks(R), "This is not a flaw you see" and "Do What is good for the company, not Microsoft". I am just sayin'.
  • by Graff (532189) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:07PM (#23832685)

    I never heard the Great Man giving credit to anyone else but himself. You hear all the time about how the iPod's success is because Steve Jobs himself said how loud the volume button should go, but you never hear who was actually the guy who designed the bloody thing. Well, not from Apple. It's not hard to dig up the names, but I'd like just once to hear Apple just come out and say "we'd like to thank these guys for making it possible."
    Just watch a Keynote speech.

    Steve Jobs trots out a half-dozen people, remarks how this person worked on this and that person lead this great team who did that, and generally gives credit to lots of other people, including people who aren't even directly part of Apple. He's done this at EVERY keynote speech pretty much since he's been giving them.

    Honestly Steve Jobs hasn't been one to toot his own horn. Sure there isn't a lack of OTHER people doing it but you'd be hard-pressed to find many places where he says that he was the only one who did X, Y, and Z for Apple.

    If you want to see some good history about all the old Macintosh crew, go take a look at Folklore.org [folklore.org]. There's a lot there about Steve Jobs for sure, but also a lot about all the other people who worked on the first Macintoshes. Steve Jobs is hardly the only one who is recognized for his work at Apple.
  • by Sta7ic (819090) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:11PM (#23832729)
    It's reading things like this that help put my little worldview in perspective. I'm out in the sticks of Eastern Washington (the state), earning ~52k writing software, paying 645 for a two-bed, and maybe a mile from the Columbia River and the mess of parks cluttering the shore.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:12PM (#23832741)
    I remember watching the iPhone announcement video, and Steve Jobs specifically asked all people on the project to stand up so the crowd could applaud for them.

    Just saying, it does seem like they are appreciated.
  • by CodeBuster (516420) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:16PM (#23832775)

    Google pays on the order of 25% less.
    Yes, but Google provides lots of perks like heavily subsidized and good quality food, on-site oil change, car wash, dry cleaning, massage therapy, gym, hair stylist, fitness classes, bike repair, shuttle service, etc...In fact, I would not be surprised if the IRS starts moving in on Google employees for not reporting these substantial fringe benefits as income (the IRS went after hollywood stars for high end gift baskets at award ceremonies, so it could happen).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:21PM (#23832829)
    Having worked at Apple, I can tell you that the conditions where I worked weren't great. In fact, the company that poached me and offered me more money has far better conditions - including personal growth time, further education opportunities (which they pay for), and a real focus on staff health.

    At Apple, you're expected to be available from 6.00 am to 9.00 pm or later some times. There is no idea whatsoever of a work-life balance. You get great discounts on hardware, but corporate clients of Apple get an Apple staff discount too - my current employer fits in that category.

    I wouldn't go back in a fit - they'd have to offer me a lot more money if they wanted that.
  • by NMerriam (15122) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:29PM (#23832905) Homepage
    Where has anyone given the impression that Apple engineers are lazy and incompetent? I think maybe you're projecting from your own sense of not being recognized or something here. If anyone at Apple thought they didn't have great engineers, they wouldn't bother to push them to make great products. Nobody I know at Apple (even in traditionally clueless divisions like marketing) thinks the engineers and programmers are anything but the lifeblood and foundation of the company.

    But yes, much of what Apple was originally and is again now, is due to Jobs' marketing savvy and seemingly magical ability to know when a device is ready (as opposed to needing another 3 months of work) and how people can be doing something in the future without worrying so much about the limitations the rest of us are aware of. There are lots of people who are great long-term visionaries, and lots of folks who are great engineers capable of building most anything you can imagine, but there are very few short-term visionaries capable of really knowing what needs to be built 12-24 months from now.

    If you've never worked with a fantastically inspirational and inspired boss, it's hard to understand. Sure, over the long term it can be tiring, and after the twentieth time you go back to the drawing board because his inspiration just doesn't match up with the laws of physics, you want to set his house on fire. But when every talented engineer in the room says something is impossible, and the boss insists you do it anyway, and 6 months later you're all amazed because you managed to make it work -- that's a great feeling.

    Most programmers, designers, and engineers I know complain that projects get rushed out the door before they're done, that they never get a chance to really use iterative design techniques to create a better widget, because once it is "good enough", they have to put it in a box and move on to the next project. Being able to work at a company where "good enough" is NOT good enough, is what many people dream about -- knowing that you can create the whole project, then throw it out and do it RIGHT, is a blessing. Yeah, if you just want a job with direct deposit where you don't have to do much other than punch the clock, it isn't the best company to work for. But if you want to create products people will use every day -- and LOVE USING -- while keeping enough time for family and a normal life, it's a pretty great company.
  • Options (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mpaque (655244) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:29PM (#23832915)
    While Apple has paid lower salaries, what Apple HR refers to as 'competitive', a weighted range below the industry mid-point, they also gave out stock options. An engineer at Apple who had amassed options with exercise in the low teens or better per share might find themselves pretty well off on paper with the stock price now at $181/share. The last of these nice options vest over this year.

    Other benefits such as medical are also 'competitive', or poor to mediocre. Things that you might have read about, such as the old sabbatical program, are long gone.

    This now turns into an entirely different problem for Apple, as the senior technical people discover that they can exercise those options, and even after covering the taxes can invest the proceeds in a fairly conservative manner and easily replace their salary. The ability to pop on that T-shirt saying "F#@k You I Am Fully Vested" does wonders for one's BS tolerance level. Some folks might not tolerate being put on maintenance duty, code cleanup ("Please alter the tabs and indentation of the following 310 source code files") , or being given a series of problem reports that 'Function F() is 1.1% slower in Leopard than in Tiger. Fix as your top priority item and send Bertrand daily status!" (This gets old after a few hundred repetitions.)

    It remains to be seen as to how much of Apple's more experienced workforce might depart in the near future, and what impact this will have on the business and those who remain behind.
  • by paanta (640245) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:30PM (#23832919) Homepage
    Depends. I didn't RTFA but did it happen to mention the average age of apple employees? Maybe Apple hires younger, more motivated employees than it does stodgy middle-aged types? A younger workforce could explain the lower salaries...
  • by dhavleak (912889) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:32PM (#23832947)

    Pride in what you do and a sense of corporate individuality is a huge factor in determining the loyalty of employees.

    I agree, but I think you overestimate this effect. In Apple, with Ive and Jobs generally being the public faces, it's rare for the guys in the trenches to get noticed. Not everybody's ego is pleased with a pat on the back. They need public accolades, more money, or a mix of both.

    Also, as sexy as Apple's products are, they don't have a very large lineup. There's no dearth of sexy products in the rest of the tech. world, and people do often move -- we'd probably be surprised at the number of people who have worked for at least 2 companies out of Apple, Google, and MS.

    The numbers in TFA (Glassdoor) are based on a sample set that's way too small to be a statistically "representative sample". So we don't even know if Apple engineers really are paid less than the average silicon valley employee.

    The one effect the article seems to miss: Apple's stock has been on fire for some time now. So if Apple employees are getting stock awards and have a decent employee stock purchase plan, the raw salary numbers aren't telling us the whole story.

  • by rossz (67331) <ogre.geekbiker@net> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:38PM (#23833003) Homepage Journal
    I recently finished a one year contract at Google. Since leaving, I have said on numerous occasions that google's downfall will be their arrogance. You nailed it perfectly. The mono-culture you mention isn't just in their technical leanings. It's also very much evident in the political leaning of the workforce. Politics is dominated by the extreme left. You aren't supposed to hire based on politics (it's the law), but people are rejected because they "don't fit with the google culture." Google is also failing miserably in hiring military vets. That's a big no-no. I expect them to get in serious trouble for that.
  • by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland@ya[ ].com ['hoo' in gap]> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @08:45PM (#23833077) Homepage Journal
    Assuming 1 income family.

    This leads to a rant about the problems with dual spouse incomes, and how they have driven up the price of goods while destroying peoples time...but I'll spare you.
  • by ChrisA90278 (905188) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @09:00PM (#23833195)
    "Anyone who has a good paying job in the US today is lucky."

    Why is that? Are good paying jobs handed out by lottory? There are many good paying jobsgoing vacant. My company will give me a $2,500 bonus if I can find some one to work here. The way I see it is that if you are un-skilled you will never find a good job. There are just to many un-skilled people all after the same low-end retail and service jobs but at the high end there is a real shortage of people.
  • by CyDharttha (939997) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @09:00PM (#23833197) Homepage

    Or maybe people would rather work on OS development and desktop software than improve systems to sell ads.

    Awe, that seems kind of short-sighted to me. There are lots of reasons I want to work for Google, and none of them have to do with advertising. I watched [youtube.com] a tutorial [google.com] on implementing the Google Calendar API, and the presenter, who helped develop the API, was very enthusiastic about the system. I am, too. It'd be a great set of tools to develop and use IMO. I think it would be fun to port Picasa and Earth using Wine libs as well. I'm sure there are many more projects I'd enjoy working on.

    It seems to me, for every developer of OS/software at Apple, there must be three engineers developing the latest hardware. Would be a fun job as well, but unfortunately not the path I took. And I must say, I personally am not at all enthusiastic about software development at Apple, but those reasons are of course mine alone.

  • by crunchy_one (1047426) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @09:13PM (#23833307)

    In many cases engineers have been brought on stage to demonstrate products.

    I believe you're confusing suits with engineers. Please name an engineer who's shared the stage with Steve at a keynote.

    And, at the end every single keynote, Steve Jobs thanks all of the employees and their families for their hard work and sacrifices. Then he asks the employees in the audience to stand up and asks the audience to give them around of applause.

    What a truly wonderful human being he is.

  • by cmholm (69081) <cmholm@@@mauiholm...org> on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @09:25PM (#23833423) Homepage Journal
    One of my brother-in-laws worked at Apple during the late 80's early 90's time frame. From his pov, until Windows 95 really started to eat Apple's lunch, Apple had a coolness factor for young engineers that allowed the company to pay a bit below industry standard, and work them like dogs until they burned out.

    With any luck, today's cadre can enjoy the run up in their stock-based net worth without the Dickesian working conditions.
  • Really? $89K? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by realinvalidname (529939) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @10:28PM (#23833891) Homepage

    Is this data anywhere near accurate? The iPhone group recruited me earlier this year for a software engineering gig (I got through two rounds of interviews, but didn't get the job), and they all but laughed at the idea I was making $85K, saying "we can blow that away." And I mean really, there's no way an engineering professional in Silicon Valley could live on $89K.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't accept the premise here.

  • by SBrach (1073190) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @10:36PM (#23833949)
    iClone
    http://bunchofnerds.com/2007/03/apple/apple-iphone-clone-finally-surfaces-in-china/ [bunchofnerds.com]

    I was told, maybe someone can confirm, that China does not let foreign built factories reach completion if said company refuses to share their trade secrets as to how the product the factory produces is made. This was the reason given for China's knack at cloning products. A half-built factory in China is a considerable expense for a company to eat.
  • by MidnightBrewer (97195) on Tuesday June 17, 2008 @10:45PM (#23834011)
    I think they meant 25 hundred. The only place where rent is $25,000 is in the Colony in Malibu, where A-list actors live. Sting pays that kind of rent on his house there.
  • by Toll_Free (1295136) on Wednesday June 18, 2008 @12:11AM (#23834665)
    No, I meant twenty to twenty five thousand dollars a month.

    This is the Bay Area. We have more millionaires than SoCal. Of course, their wealth is all subject to the ups and downs of their stock options, but...

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/apa/723370120.html [craigslist.org] twenty three thousand a month.

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/apa/723180186.html [craigslist.org] 10,000 a month for a 3 bedroom

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa?minAsk=10000 [craigslist.org] Lets just make it easy... Theres all of them above 10k. Granted, some of them are for sale prices in the ghettos, but.... Gives you an idea of WHY people out here make what they do.

    And one of the reasons I left the rat race of IT after a LONG time.

    --Toll_Free
  • Re:What? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 18, 2008 @01:16AM (#23835061)
    Mid-career entry? I haven't met anyone yet who got in.

    Heh. Here's another anecdote for you to support that. I was reached out to for a particular position, all but skipped the phone part since I was pretty obviously perfect for it, and was flown straight down to excited noises on their part.

    Not quite sure where the disconnect came from, but they were surprised to find when I arrived that at 39 I'm about double the age they thought I was.

    And, although the technical interviews all seemed to go perfectly smoothly far as I could tell, by the time my plane landed at home there was a message telling me they'd decided not to proceed. Which was quite a remarkable about-face, and if there's any technical or personality reason it escapes me utterly, the only discordant note of the whole experience was their surprise at my age when they got a look at me. Funny, that...

  • by kaiwai (765866) on Wednesday June 18, 2008 @03:28AM (#23835661)
    I agree about the pay; I was in a job being paid around $20 per hour - the job was pretty easy (non-IT related btw), but the boss was an asshole. Now sure, for the first few months I could do the old thing of "lay back, and think of the queen", but that only works for so longer. The extra pay, no matter how great it may be, will never offset in the long run a crappy work environment. The work environment is where one spends at least 1/3 of their life, all the money in the world isn't going to make the work environment better.

    I went from that job to another job (again, non-IT related), I earned less money BUT at the same time, I had alot more perks. I was head of a department in an section of the retail sector which provides stable long term employment. My co-workers were down to earth genuine people rather than egotistical pricks like I've seen in the IT world. Sales representatives giving the ability to get things at wholesale prices (for my own person consumption etc).

    Believe me, before I went back to University, I had a pretty sweet time in that job.
  • Re: (Score:0, Interesting)

    by clint999 (1277046) on Wednesday June 18, 2008 @04:30PM (#23844747) Homepage Journal
    Nah, they won't.I live in the area, and let me tell you, people would rather KNOW they are going to have a paycheck, at least in theory because of seniority if nothing else, than NOT because they jumped ship to get a 20K a year raise.Not when you paid nearly a million dollars for your 3 bedroom house.There ARE people within a few miles of my house paying 25 thousand dollars a month in RENT.... My neighborhood is in the 2 to 3K a month range, and if I KNEW I could pay my bills with the economy going to the toilet, there is NO good reason for me to jump ship for a raise.Three years ago, they ALL would have jumped ship. It's a different type of world now, since foreclosures, etc. are looming everywhere. Local trash mags have foreclosure sales listed, as do newspapers.Apple should pony up some of those profits, but a smart board and CFO would realize, they might need a bit of cheese to get them through the thin period we can all see coming.

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