66% Apple Market Share For Sales of High-End PCs

An anonymous reader lets us know about a recent analysis of retail computer sales numbers that shines a spotlight on Apple's sales growth as the PC market has flattened. In the lucrative >$1,000 PC segment, in the first quarter of 2008, Apple's retail market share was 66%. This includes a 64% market share for laptops and a market share for desktops of 70%. The article attributes the bulk of this success to Apple's stores. Fortune picked up this report and pointed out the somewhat obvious fact that the >$1,000 PC segment is Apple's by default, since Dell, HP, and Lenovo sell the bulk of their machines in the $500-$750 range, and Apple has only one model selling for less than $1,000. As the analyst said, "If you don't give people a choice [in the Apple stores], people will spend more."

What a great shill.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, "threadjack". That's twitter-speak [slashdot.org] for karma whoring and shilling your own posts.

$1,000 is a lot!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get a pretty decked out computer these days for about $1,000. I mean, a good core 2 and 8gb of ram with nVidia 9600 GT. (sans monitor, but that's maybe $200 for a decent one). OK, I'll do the math:

Core 2 Duo E8400: $200
Intel mobo (your pick): $110
8 gb of ram: $160 (that's not a typo)
Case w/ power supply: $100
Hard drive: $80
Optical drive: $35
GeForce 9600 GT: $175
Mouse+Keyboard: $30
Shipping (newegg): $30

Total: $920

Swap the E8400 for a a Core 2 Quad Q9450 adds $150 so $1070 total. How the hell are people spending more than $1,000 on a computer? With some judicious corner cutting you can get way more computer than the average person needs for far less than $1,000. The only way you're paying significantly more than $1,000 is if you are buying Intel Extreme, multiple graphics cards, and stupid $300+ motherboards.

Even laptops hover around $1,000 for a good rig. I designed a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 15.4" widescreen with a good T9300 CPU, 2 gb of ram, and other fixings for just around $1,100 - $1,200. And most people don't need all those extras or even as good a computer as a Thinkpad.

So yeah, don't buy Apple. The fact they are selling you something for over $1,000 is suspicious unless it comes with at least 4 cores and 8 gb of ram.

Re:WinMac Fanboy Haiku Ceremony.

[willyhill]

Yes. Erris, gnutoo, inTheLoo and Mactrope (who are having a conversation on this thread) are all the same person [slashdot.org].

If you need to mark them as foe, the other ones are westbake [slashdot.org], willeyhill [slashdot.org] and Odder [slashdot.org]. He has one more [slashdot.org] that he seems to have stopped using after two posts.

I don't know if he's created more in the past two weeks, I haven't been paying much attention to the whole drama.

Re:You get...

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Apple notebooks are manufactured by Quanta, the same company that makes many Dell boxes. They use the same Intel CPUs, graphics, and chipsets as Dell boxes. They use Seagate and Hitachi hard drives, like many Dell boxes.

So, where's the difference?

Re:Industrial design does matter

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't get me wrong, I love my MacBook Pro, but there are some absolutely stupid decisions that Apple makes in the design.

Top on my list is the "I'm sleeping so you can't" light. So I either have shut down every night or physically put a book or some other non-translucent object directly in front of the light or the whole room pulsates all night long from that stupid indicator light on the front of the case. It would be one thing if they allowed you to modify the behavior via some setting (either the defaults write variety or an actual GUI option), but they don't.

Also on the list is the inability to control that stupid startup sound. Gee, isn't it fun when the whole airport looks at you just because you turned on your laptop...I don't need a stupid sound to let me know I pressed a button. Thankfully, someone [biglobe.ne.jp] decided this was annoying enough to fix without waiting for Apple to come to their senses, but this should still be an option in the sound prefpane. Hell...Windows even gives you the ability to *change* the startup sound, how hard could it be to allow you to mute the startup sound?

The one that used to be top of my list when I had my old PowerBook (though it seems to be mostly fixed on my MBP) is the behavior of closing the lid. It's a nice feature that when you close the lid, it automatically goes into sleep mode. However, this is *not* the correct behavior after the user has started the shutdown procedure. Once the machine is done prompting the user and is going to shut down, nothing should stop it. I had many dead batteries that came from thinking I'd shut down the computer only to realize it had actually gone into sleep mode before it shut down and continued to run down the battery until it died. When I plug the machine back in, it comes out of hibernation only to...drum roll...finish shutting down. So far my MBP has only done this once (which I think was a result of an update doing something post logout).

I have at least 10 more nits that would be almost trivial to fix that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say that Apple is in no way perfect and does make stupid design decisions in many cases.

That said, you'll pry my MBP from my cold, dead hands, since it makes life so much simpler than my work laptop (PC, dual boot Windows/Kubuntu...Windows being basically for just for Outlook and Photoshop). And the lack of Quicksilver on any other platform means the rest are basically a non-starter for me when I have the choice of what platform to use.

Re:Price != High End

[TRRosen]

Show me a Macbook with a 7950GTX let alone a 8800M video Card, or god forbid, an SLI video notebook. And this is really sad... (Our graphic designers run from Mac Hardware for these reasons alone)

your graphics designers are tards...video cards have almost no effect on 2d graphic programs. oh and MacBooks with 3D cards are called MacBook Pros ...and no sorry they don't have battery sucking video cards designed for gaming...Apple builds computers for grown-ups

(And this doesn't even touch the horrid Apple LCDs in notebooks, especially the newly beloved OLED notbooks that tests show lose 20% of their color fidelity within six months of usage (1000 hours).)

Apple doesn't make a OLED notebook?

For overpriced computers, Apple has more suckers... As for 'high-end' computing Apple doesn't even make a high end computer.

Hmmm my 8 core 16 GB- low end computer - is quite insulted

FACT Apples have always been about the same OR BETTER priced compared to equal PC's

FACT Apple has always been at the top of the list for quality and customer service

FACT one of the reasons Apple is doing so well right now is Redmond fanboys are buying Macs to run Vista on...even the PC mags agree that MacBooks are the best windows machines out there.

FACT sub $1000 PCs are crap..thats why most people that go to Dell's site to buy one of those $500 PCs leave spending around $1500.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[vux984]

See this is what I really don't understand. $1000 is approximately £500. I earn that in one day. From here it looks like the US economy must be really going down the pan if $1000 is too much for a high end computer.

According to the British government, the median wage in the UK, as of April 2007 was £457 per -week- for full time employees. Even at the 90th percentile one would only be making £1,019/week. So you are claiming to be what? In top 1% of the income scale? Go figure such a person could afford a computer easily.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285 [statistics.gov.uk]

Meanwhile in the US, the median wage is currently ~$35,000/year, which is ~$675/wk. Which works out to about £100 less than in Britain...

Of course, gas at even at record levels is still half the price of europe, and housing is cheaper in the US, the tax situation is different, etc... so one can't really speculate who is really further ahead based on wage alone. but a $1000 PC is FAR more than a day's pay for well over 90% of the population in either country.

Oh... according to the HDI index, the standard of living in the US is higher than UK. US is ranked 12th, UK is ranked 16th. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

But I'd have thought Britain would have scored better than that... what with everyone apparently making in a day nearly what an american makes in a week?!

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[bytesex]

The Burberry brand has been ruined in the UK by 'chavs' (that's what they call white trailer trash (minus the trailers) in the UK) all of a sudden discovering it. Even though the price of it hasn't changed (expensive stuff), the people will just buy it, no matter what. The moral of the story: no matter how hard you try to be a luxury brand, you have to always be prepared to be catapulted to where you don't want to be because of the market's whims. In that light, it helps if you have more sticks in the fire.

Re:Correction

[NMerriam]

It has been my experience that people that exclaim how Mac OS X is a "true UNIX" are often the type that never touch the command-line and haven't experienced the level of crap that is apple glomming-on all their filesystem meta-data to the things that resemble unix the most.

Keep in mind that the Mach microkernel is not unix, it came from CMU. Some userland stuff came from the *BSD lineage, but calling OS X a "true UNIX" rings about as true as calling windows + cygwin the same.

I have no reason to doubt your experiences, but whether or not other people touch the command line has nothing to do with whether or not an OS is UNIX, nor does the kernel architecture (or kernel lineage or school of origin, for that matter). Solaris and AIX have different kernels, but they're both the basis of true UNIX systems. UNIX isn't about being able to port drivers, it's about a common set of applications, shells, commands, protocols, and functionality. Mac OS X 10.5 is a UNIX '03 certified OS. Just because it doesn't compile someone's favorite Linux tool without some porting doesn't mean it isn't UNIX -- IRIX wouldn't compile most of the desktop software on sourceforge, either.

There's zero filesystem metadata "glommed on" in Darwin, I don't even know what you're talking about. Sure, the OS and supported filesystems are happy to store lots of metadata if applications request it, but that's true of every modern desktop OS out there, most just don't use it much. Solaris has been "glomming on" ACL metadata for a decade and a half.

Most people are perfectly happy treating Linux as a UNIX, and it has nothing directly to do with any of the "real" BSD or System V UNIXes, it's a mish-mash of ideas from copies of both. If it makes you feel better, install Darwin with X11 and skip the whole Aqua GUI -- you'll be looking at a BSDish OS with as much in common with its brethren as any other UNIX.

Free Apple!

[CarpetShark]

is exactly why I don't own an Apple. I'd love to have a Macbook Pro, but I just can't justify paying that much for yet another computer.

If you have a recent box, just download and install kalyway or leo4all. Free mac for your PC. Not compatible with all hardware yet, but after swapping my Geforce 8xxx for a 7xxx, and disabling my second cpu core, it runs great. Definitely a step up from windows on the same machine, even WITH the better gfx and another core. But give it some time, and drivers will be out for that hardware too.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[PLBogen]

Because OSX is a resource hog almost as bad as Vista is? My research lab bought a couple of Macs and no one will use them because you can barely run more than one program on them. People are instead bringing personal laptops that are a couple of years old and the Macs sit unused. I have been asked several times if they can just use the iMac as an external monitor instead. One person asked us not to take her PIII 800mhz with 256mb of RAM because she was getting better performance.

Re:There is no judo chop.

[Idaho]

Apple is selling exactly the same hardware for twice as much.

Really. Can you please spec me out a Dell or HP 13" notebook similar to the $1200 MacBook. Ah, that's right, the 13" Dell XPS (the only 13" they sell) is actually more like $1400. Whoopsie.

I'd probably agree if you're talking about the 15" models (MacBook Pro) though. Although it's even then obviously not "the same hardware". Try to compare that to prices of the high-quality (formerly known as) Thinkpad line by Lenovo. You'll find it is not much cheaper, if at all.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[CastrTroy]

But they have brought down their iPod line so that everyone could afford it. You can get an iPod for as cheap as $49. And even get a real iPod with the full interface that plays video and everything, for just $150. They haven't ruined their reputation by offering low end models. What they've actually done is make their high end models look all the more appealing. While still giving those with no desire to spend $350 on an MP3 player the ability to buy one of their products. I really believe they need to do the same with their computers.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[PawNtheSandman]

Yes and Dell's advertised prices are not the best. Do a search. You can find thousands of coupon codes to save a ton on Dell. Last time I checked, there were no coupons for Apples.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[throbber]

He's a contractor .... probably in the Finance sector. GBP 500 or more per day is not unusual in the London. I've seen contracts advertised for GBP 700 per day recently. I'd hate to see what the rates would be in the un-advertised positions.

Cheers

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple comes out with hardware, sets a price, and generally leaves it alone for a few months. It's just how they operate. Knowing this, it makes sense to buy it when the hardware comes out since computers quickly depreciate. The Mac Pro I bought in January is still a great machine, but the parts are probably worth less now. However, Macs do tend to have a higher resale value than most computers, so the depreciation is less than if it were a commodity PC.

Re:Correction

[VGPowerlord]

Correction, Leopard is UNIX. The previous versions of OSX are not, because Apple v. Open Group [news.com] had not yet been settled by the time any of them had been released.

Re:Price != High End

[Anonymous Coward]

I like Apples, I think they look great and I think OS X is a great OS, but some of the nonsense rabid fans come out with makes me roll my eyes. It's almost like they're desperate to justify their blowing astonishing amounts of money on an Apple when a nasty cheap PC could probably have served their requirements just as well.

your graphics designers are tards...video cards have almost no effect on 2d graphic programs.

Ahem. Some high-end CAD & 3D modeling software will in fact make good use of 3D cards, e.g. to produce real-time previews.

FACT Apples have always been about the same OR BETTER priced compared to equal PC's

This of course relies on your definition of "equal" which I'll bet will change second by second. So, this is just for laughs:

MacBook: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6GHz, 1920x1200 LED, 2GB, 200GB Serial ATA @ 7200 rpm, DVD-RW-DL, 802.11: 1,845.95 UKP

Dell Precision M6300: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6GHz, 1920x1200 LED, 4GB, 200GB Serial ATA @ 7200 rpm, DVD-RW-DL, 802.11: 1,273.00 UKP

FACT Apple has always been at the top of the list for quality and customer service

Dell's customer service is pretty damn good in my personal experience; I don't hear half the horror stories that I hear from Apple users. I know, I know, it's anecdotal evidence... like the majority of the comments to this item.

Re:Correction

[Just Some Guy]

I guess it must be true if you read it on the mac site?

Forget apple.com. How about The Open Group saying that OS X is Unix [opengroup.org]?

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[ronanbear]

The owner of Bristol, the small English carmaker, only sells to people he knows. His company, he can do what he wants.

Carelessly selling refers to the extraordinary range of products they introduced. Tartan baseball caps!!! They were just asking for brand trouble and it's exactly what they got.

To use your car analagy it would be like Porche bringing out some hot-hatch to compete with boy racers who want souped-up Civics and then watching their regular customers getting completely turned off.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[the_B0fh]

Whereas my personal experience runs the other way. We migrated from a dual cpu P3-1.4Ghz to a G4 running 10.4. A 450Mhz G4. The usability was just so much better.

Re:$1,000 market dominance...

[DaveV1.0]

Built just now at Dell.com
Tuxedo Black
Intel® Coreâ 2 Duo T8300 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/3MB cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition
Standard Display with 2.0 Megapixel Webcam
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)
Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Mini Card
Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
37Whr Lithium Ion Battery (4 cell)
High Definition Audio 2.0
Biometric Fingerprint Reader
My Software & Accessories
Norton Internet Security 2008, 15-Month
No Productivity software pre-installed
My Service
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor,24x7 Phone Support
Included 3 GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Yr
No ISP requested
Also Includes
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 8.1
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor
Windows Vistaâ Premium
Standard LCD with Tuxedo Black Casing and Camera XPS M1330
No Entertainment software pre-installed

$1,194

Nice of you to add things to jack up the price

Re:There is no judo chop.

[Cairnarvon]

Try to compare that to prices of the high-quality (formerly known as) Thinkpad line by Lenovo. You'll find it is not much cheaper, if at all.

Actually, a friend of mine was thinking about getting a MacBook Pro a while ago while I was thinking about getting a Thinkpad, so we did exactly that. The MacBook Pro cost $2,500, while the equivalent Thinkpad (running Linux) cost about $1,200.
I know Thinkpads have a reputation for being expensive, but they've got nothing on Apple computers.

Re:Why bother with Safari,

[arminw]

....Apple's big selling point is it's software.....

Wrong! Apple's big selling point is a whole, not half of a computer. Apple sells an integrated system the sum of which is greater than it parts. When you buy a car, you get a whole vehicle. You don't pay extra for the engine or the brakes. When you buy a toaster, the cord for it comes with it. All products EXCEPT computers, other than Apple's, come as a completed whole working device, where the user doesn't have to spend extra money, such as PC users have to do. Mac users don't have to waste money on extra security software, for example.

People are willing to spend money to get a complete working system. In the end that is cheaper than having to waste valuable time to periodically have to clean crapware off the system, after having already spent time to clean up the initial, performance robbing garbage, put on the box by the likes of Dell or HP, before the customer even turns it on. MS and the PC makers seem to feel that the users time is not worth much if anything at all. There are a lot of folks who do value their time to do productive work or have fun. They don't want to spend that precious time futzing with a balky computer.

Re:masturbation in 3,2,1

[laffer1]

The Mac Mini is under $1000 and apple sells refurbs under $1000 sometimes (imacs and macbooks) http://www.apple.com/macmini/ [apple.com] At first, I thought this article was talking about mac pro and macbook pro systems. It seems odd to compare the iMac with a gamer rig which is what a $1000+ pc usually is (minus workstations). I'm unclear if workstations are counted. (dell precision, mac pro, etc)