Running Mac OS X On Standard PCs 623
ZDOne writes "ZDNet's reviews team have been tinkering with the various ways of running OS X on standard PCs. They found that with the right hardware components, a standard PC running Mac OS X Leopard is, at first sight, no different from a genuine Apple Mac. Special CPU extensions such as Intel VT-x provide support for software solutions like Parallels Desktop for Mac. Even Adobe Photoshop, which queries a Mac to verify its authenticity, runs fine on a standard PC thanks to EFI emulation.
However the article points out that it's a pretty technical proposition to get OS X running on non-Apple hardware, beyond all but the most powerful power users. And then there is the legal question. Don't even think about trying to put OS X on your PC without first purchasing a legitimate copy of Mac OS Leopard."
Never mind the buying part... (Score:4, Informative)
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf [apple.com]
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:3, Informative)
I use the term "similarly powerful" on the basis of framerate testing and how fast it can do on CPU heavy projects like folding@home
It's not technical at all- (Score:5, Informative)
Step 2: download and burn onto dvd
Step 3: Use Intel hardware. SATA for hard drive if you wish, but use IDE for the DVD rom
Step 4: let the "leo4all.v2" do the rest.
Step 5: there is no step 5
I first started with AMD hardware, and had endless issues (no surprise really, AMD isn't fully supported by OS X) but the switch to intel hardware went much more smoothly.
The system I used was a D945GNT board, with an off-the-shelf nVidia 7300GT. OS X picked up everything but the sound (still working on why, claims it's suported) and for the fisrt time ever, I've had the pleasure of playing with OS X on fast hardware.
Total box cost set me back ~300$ US. Not bad...(mind you, the board and CPU were used)
Apple updates worked fine, as did other software updates, so kudos to the OSX86.org crew for their outstanding work.
way ahead of you (Score:5, Informative)
It definitely takes a lot of tweaks to get right. For example, if my Apple brand USB keyboard is plugged directly into the USB ports on the back of the motherboard, then the machine will not properly wake from sleep. I had to run the keyboard first through a Belkin 7 port hub. That one took me a couple of (frustrating) days (including buying a second video card to rule that out) to figure out.
The Pro Tools/DigiRack had previously only been run through Windows, and although it installed and recognized the hardware OK, I was having problems with playback and crashes until I went back and did even more BIOS tweaking (I think disabling SpeedStep was the key, although I also turned off everything else I could find that said it might automatically throttle the CPU or RAM). Now even that seems to be running smoothly.
Summary: not for the faint of heart, and it could break with any Apple software update, but when it works, it is brilliant.
Re:Popular Choices (Score:5, Informative)
But it was only a couple weeks before I got tired of it. IMO, part of the charm of a Mac is... y'know... the actual Mac.
Anyway, I used this guide [insanelymac.com] for Dell Centrino Duo laptops, and other posts on the same site are extremely helpful if you're really interested in trying Mac OS X on a PC. Check the "OSx86" section [insanelymac.com], and especially this thread [insanelymac.com].
Re:Never mind the buying part... (Score:5, Informative)
Pirating software has been successfully prosecuted as a crime in most courts in the world.
Breaking EULA's has not.
One is blatantly illegal, the other is doing something that a company you bought something off would rather you didn't do, so has told you is against the undisclosed 'contract' you 'agreed to' when you 'bought' the software.
Re:EFI emulation (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:1, Informative)
No thanks (Score:1, Informative)
No thanks.
No proprietary software.
I rather run Ubuntu;
* http://www.ubuntu.com/ [ubuntu.com]
I can use Mac4Lin theme;
* http://sourceforge.net/projects/mac4lin/ [sourceforge.net]
Re:I went there (Score:1, Informative)
The one they've been pushing bundled with an iTunes update.
EULAs don't mean shit and EVERYONE KNOWS IT. Even those who write them.
so STFU
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It's not technical at all- (Score:5, Informative)
get that instead.
Hint leo4allv3 leo4all.v3 leo4all v3
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:5, Informative)
It's important, when comparing prices, to pick machines in the same class. Don't just compare CPU/RAM/HDD specs. I have a precision workstation and it's built like a tank compared to the dimension line.
It would be very easy to buy the cheapest ECS motherboard, no-name power supply and generic case then slap in a quad core Xeon, lots of cheap RAM and a high capacity value hard drive and try to pass it off as "similar" to less technical customers.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:2, Informative)
As for a iMac, Looking at the 20" $1499 model, and comparing it's base config to a Dell XPS One, in a 20", the processor in the Dell is only an E6550 (2.33GHz), and doesn't compare to Apple's 2.66, the dell uses the slower and less powerful G33 chipset, and even with the best video card it can get (Radeon 2400) it can't compete with Apple's 2600 Pro graphics. Same RAM, Same HDD, and all configured, the Dell is MORE THAN $600 HIGHER IN PRICE, and that's before adding OS X and iLife to it's config! Even the lower end model Dell running on a 2.2GHz processor with no dedicated graphics is STILL more expensive, even before adding OS X.
A desktop compared to the iMac 20" you say? - Best I can configure is a Dell 420 desktop. including the graphic upgrade to the 8800GT (slightly better than the 2600Pro from Apple, but not a lot) and it comes with 3GB of RAM, but guess what, it's $1499 configured that way. It's the same price as the Apple, until you considder it's still missing a remote, uses more power, makes more noise, is not an all-in-one, and add OS X and iLife to it and you're over the mac's price by more than $200 again. Oh, no firewire either...
Every Dell to Mac comparrison I've made in nearly a year, the Dell costs more when you factor in Wireless N, Bluetooth, hard disk performance and size, video performance,screen resolution, and software equivolents. I did 2 others yesterday for the MacBook pro 17" and 15" compared to 3 different Dell machines, Apple was cheaper and had more components, and was lighter and had 2-4 times the battery life in all cases.
Power of the CPU is not a comparrison at all. The CPU and mainboard can easily be compared between 2 models and could very well be faster on Dell's side, since THEY USE THE SAME PARTS. However, add HDD performance, 3D rendering capability, and connectivity options, and Dell falls apart on price. Try editing a video, or running a lenghty photoshop render on a Dell and on a Mac. At the same price point, Adobe states clearly, you can NOT beat Apple's price/performance figures.
With Apple buying Intel and common name brand parts now, but having FAR lower support costs (fewer helpdesk calls vs microsoft OS by FAR!), simpler service logistics, a simplified model line-up, the other guys can't compete on price.
Dell outsold Apple last year nearly 4:1 on hardware. Apple's PC division had higher profits than Dell. If Apple ever really feels threatend on price, they can sell systems at BELOW Dell's cost and still make proffit.
Oh, and a word about support. Even if you can find a mcahine from Dell, HP, gateway, etc, that can compete with a mac on performance, including the cost of OS and typical application software, who supports it? Some friggin guy in India?
by the By, Apple's macBook Pro is still the fastest machine running Vista on the market under $3500... and thats for their $2700 machine.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:3, Informative)
Allow me to add perspective to your largely correct assertion:
Similarly powerful PCs cost 1/2 as much as a Sony does, in almost all areas. I use the term "similarly powerful" on the basis of framerate testing and how fast it can do on CPU heavy projects like folding@home
You can buy a cheap, low reliability system with the features other than CPU stripped out for less than a machine with lots of features designed for real users who do more than run a folding@home farm in the basement. When you compare machines based upon all their specs, including reliability, Apple is pretty much in line with other premium vendors who come close to the same levels of features and reliability based upon independent testing like Consumer Reports.
In short, Apple offers reasonable prices on their hardware, they just don't have a wide selection of hardware compared to all other hardware vendors combined. As a result, if you're looking for a machine to meet your specific needs (like headless folding@home servers), you will probably be able to find something more exactly suited to your needs elsewhere and may save money by not paying for features that you don't need.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:5, Informative)
You will find this to be consistent. I bought my MacBook Pro after reading the review in the December issue of Laptop magazine where the regular MacBook was the price/performance king in the home/office category. I personally priced a Dell, an AlienWare, and an Apple. The AlienWare was the cheapest (despite the reputation they have, AlienWare laptops are very price competitive in the high-end), Apple was the next by about $100, and the Dell was over $1000 more expensive. I went with the Apple because it was half the weight of the Alienware and because the Alienware came with Vista.
The reason Apple has this reputation is because they don't sell cheap computers. You can compare an $1800 PC with an $1800 Mac: but you can't compare a $500 PC to a $500 Mac because Apple doesn't sell to that market.
* Note: In defense of PC manufacturers, they are crippled recently because Vista is making their benchmarks look terrible. When they compare the Mac's running XP to PC's running XP, the OS X advantage goes away and the results are nearly identical at the same price.
Re: Eur 1800 for a webcam?? (Score:5, Informative)
You also forgot the light sensor that can see how dark it is in the room and adjust the screen and keyboard backlight to adjust for it.
Then there is the fact that they keyboard even has a backlight that shines through the letters rather than squinting and trying to read the cheap painted keys by the light of your LCD. Then there is the part where your paint won't wear off your keyboard because they didn't use paint to label your keys.
Oh yeah...you also forgot the physical construction of the thing is both lightweight and stronger than the typical laptop. Most of those plasticy crap lids you can put slight torque on the corners or press on the back and see the LCD distort. This tells you that if you tap the stupid lid wrong you are likely to break the LCD. A nice sturdy frame for it means it is far less likely to have issues. (I have seen this type of better construction on a few PC laptops, but it is most certainly not a standard).
I used to think Macs were just overpriced nonsense based on fancy branding. After playing with a MBP for a while in the store I realized that they actually have a ton of better design in the hardware. If you just compare CPU/RAM/etc then yes a PC is cheaper, but if you compare the whole system and all of its hardware design the Mac is a far better deal.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:4, Informative)
My primary machine is a 4 year old Dell notebook. It plays Youtube just fine, handles Java, scans, prints, and edits photos (using Gimp) like a champ.
(It doesn't run OS X, due to a lack of CPU instructions (no SSE3, though I hear that there's a patch to get that working.)
Looking over the laptops at bestbuy.com, the ones that cost $500 are generally superior or equal to my notebook in every dimension[0]. Bump it up to $600, and you can find plenty of notebooks that are better in every way[0].
Heading over to Dell, $500 gets you roughly the same specs as the notebooks at bestbuy.com. Don't like the Celeron? Bump up the cost $50 and you don't have to have one.
If I could find any actual $400 notebooks, I would compare those specs, but such beasts don't seem to exist outside of sales, and I can't find any sales right now for them. I'm not the person to whom you were replying, anyway, so it's not like $400 was my claim. But it doesn't look hard to find notebooks with prices approaching that that are more than suitable for the tasks you're talking about.
[0] Except for screen resolution, but then, Macs have pretty crappy options for this, too.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mac OS Server (Score:4, Informative)
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a hardware company.
I hate to use marketing buzzwords, but repeat after me:
Apple is a total experience company.
Apple is a total experience company.
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:5, Informative)
Apple MBP $1999
Dell Inspiron 1525 $1428.
The Dell is missing dedicated graphics, includes 50GB more hard drive space, and has a higher capacity battery.
Apple MBP $1999
Dell XPS M1530 $1602
Dell has 50GB more hard drive space, higher capacity battery, and a fingerprint reader. Otherwise, as far as I can see, the specs are identical.
When this line of MBPs came out, they were competitive. But Apple won't drop their prices as components decrease in price (it's where they make the bulk of their money!) while Dell does. So right now, you can get an equivalent Dell for almost $400 less than the MBP, and it's got better specs in a couple of areas.
Of course, whether or not this is competitive is pretty subjective.
Useful link (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:5, Informative)
Apple:
* Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Harpertown" processors
* 2GB memory (800MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
* ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT graphics with 256MB memory
* 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1
* 16x double-layer SuperDrive
$2,799
add 3 year warranty, $3,048
Dell:
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5440 (2.83GHz,2X6M L2,1333)
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5440 (2.83GHz,2X6M L2,1333)
3 Year Limited Hardware Warranty with Next Business Day On-Site Service
256MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor DVI Capable
2GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC (2 DIMMS)
16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD(TM) and Roxio Creator(TM) Dell Ed
320GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive
$3,973
Waaay more expensive to go to dell.
Apple laptop:
# MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
# 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
# 200GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
# SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
# 2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
$2,499
Dell:
Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T8300 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache) edit
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition edit
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1440x900) & 2MP Camera edit
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms) edit
Size: 250GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive edit
Slot Load DVD+/-RW (DVD/CD read/write) edit
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT edit
Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Mini Card edit
Finger Print Reader XPS M1530 edit
$1,374
Better graphics card, and way cheaper at dell.
If you're willing to skip the dvd writer and use an intel graphics card, from dell you can get one with 3GB of ram, and it's $999.
~X
Re:Perhaps Apple should begin licensing OS X (Score:1, Informative)
I did look about 8 months ago. I tried to put together a system as small, quiet and with nearly equivalent features as a Mini. I couldn't do it at the same price point. Anything above 1Ghz and a fan is required. Heat seek cases were expensive. Adding a low profile CD/DVD ROM added extra bucks. And matching the size of the Mini was a challenge too.
I finally decided to get a used PPC version of the Mini on e-bay, I slapped OpenBSD on it and it is now doing its special-purpose task nice and quiet and I love the small foot-print.
Good Advice (Score:4, Informative)
This is good advice. However, I would also recommend reading the Leopard SLA too, particularly section 2:
This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so.
Re: Eur 1800 for a webcam?? (Score:3, Informative)