Apple Stores Demonstrate That Retail Still Lives

WheezyJoe writes "Maybe OS X Leopard has its problems, but the New York Times seems to think Apple has designed the ideal techie retail store. A policy that encourages lingering, with dozens of fully functioning computers, iPods and iPhones for visitors to try, even for hours on end (one patron wrote a manuscript entirely at the store) has 'given some stores, especially those in urban neighborhoods, the feel of a community center ... Meanwhile, the Sony flagship store on West 56th Street, a few blocks from Apple's Fifth Avenue store, has the hush of a mausoleum. And being inside the long and narrow blue-toned Nokia store on 57th Street feels a bit like being inside an aquarium. The high-end Samsung Experience showroom, its nuevo tech music on full blast one recent morning, was nearly empty.'"

Nokia store on 57th Street feels like aquarium

[smittyoneeach]

We shopped that store in September. I remember checking out some yoyodyne pen gadget which saved the writing electronically via magic paper.
Other than being priced outside of the impulse shopping range, it had the usual Nokia coolness.
The point of the article is well taken, though; cel phones don't do much to engender community.

Prices aren't ideal

[oboreruhito]

When I can get the same Wacom tablet for $40 less at Office Depot, it isn't ideal for anyone but Steve Jobs and people who, if Apple charged for the service, would already spend $40 to use the Genius Bar to learn how to plug a USB device into a USB port. Notably, the actual article never says Apple Stores are ideal for techies --actually, it's pretty specific in how it caters to people who need their hands held every step of the way. Those markups are service charges, money shoppers spend for good, in-person customer service. People with any sense of doing things themselves will never go for that, and I'd toss most techies into that group. That said, like most everything else Apple, the stores execute many things so well that, even though they only make a miniscule-to-medium dent on the actual marketplace, others will imitate them mercilessly. I can't wait to see wireless checkouts everywhere, and the open-access model to their hardware makes so much sense. (That's particularly well described on TFA's second page, where a writer who couldn't afford a computer wrote a 300-page manuscript on Apple Store computers and was accommodated by the staff.) Still, shoot me if you catch me buying something there at their markups of non-Apple products. Theirs are the worst I've ever seen retail, and that's saying a lot.

Re:well, maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

Having worked at Fry's I think most of the employees know where the porn is. Some of them probably even have stolen some of it. ;)

If Fry's could keep the products in the right place as opposed to being everywhere else except for where it ought to be they would probably have a pretty good techie store. They could also do a better job keeping the popular items in stock. I used to joke that Fry's carries virtually everything someone might want, they just don't have what you came to the store to buy in stock! Ironic, but true. They do a great job keeping adapters that have virtually no value to most customers, but products that sell like hotcakes they can't seem to keep in stock. Fry's employees a fair degree of idiots, but every store has a few geeks on the payroll. I remember one customer that complimented that I knew more than the Apple Store did about macs ironically.

The biggest problem I see that discourages one from wanting to buy stuff from the Apple Store is that their return policy sucks. That and their inventory of accessories is pretty limited. If you exclude the stores that don't carry Mac stuff the Apple Store ironically is one of the worst stores to look for Mac stuff. I know a lot of customers came into Fry's because the Apple Store pretends that no body would want to continue to use some of their older products. Want a battery for an older ipod? Not going to find it in an Apple Retail Store. Want anything for a lot of the older macs? You aren't going to find it at the Apple store. If the store is owned by Apple I kind of expect them to do a good job carrying stuff for their products. It is sad when they are sending their customers to go to MicroCenter or Fry's or MacMall for an APPLE product!

Anyone who ever worked at Fry's needless to say is going to post anonymous, because of the ridicule one would get if they knew who you were...

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[Reality Master 101]

i think you're just insecure because you apparently take issue with the fact that some of the employees look a bit scruffy....which isn't even remotely relevant. grow up.

The issue isn't the scruffiness itself, it's the *motivation* behind the scruffiness. It's an affectation -- same as the reason most people get tattoos or piercings, it's to convince others that they have some sort of style by copying the style of others. What irritates me is the shallowness, it's all about style over substance -- same as Apple. A person of substance doesn't need all that nonsense, the substance will speak for itself. Same as Apple.

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[Blakey Rat]

Yes, "Genius Bar" is a stupid name. We all agree on that.

But I brought in a malfunctioning iBook 14" to the Apple Store.

1) They looked up the service history, saw it'd been brought in before (once for the same problem, once because I tripped with the ethernet cord plugged in and broke the port).
2) Instantly declared the computer a lemon before the lemon clause of the warranty was involved.
3) Instantly told me they're replace the iBook at no charge.
4) (Here's the part that sets them above every other computer makers, and most retailers) Walked into the back of the store, brought out a brand new 14" iBook with a faster processor and more RAM than mine had, and gave it to me.
5) Then he noticed that the one from the back didn't have a wireless card, so he pulled it from my older iBook, put it in the new one, and verified it all worked before giving it to me.

Boom. Done. Instant new laptop, no charge. Sadly, I'm no longer an Apple customer, but their retail/service experience is beyond compare. Imagine getting that level of service from Dell or HP-- you're lucky if the guy on the phone even speaks English!

Apple sure succeeds as contrarians

[jollyreaper]

Back in the late 90's, the money fell out of the hardware market, at least for PC's. Yet somehow Apple is able to keep their margins high and the customers happy to pay for it. The logic goes that a company should stick to the knitting. Apple knew nothing about the music industry or making music players, it seemed like a bonehead move to do the iPod and iTunes. Look who proved the skeptics wrong. And now they're getting into retail, something that we laughed at Gateway for, the lack of retail floorspace being something that Dell was praised for, being a lean and nimble company. Now Dell is being criticized for their shitty service and Apple is praised for the innovation of opening retail stores.

I've come up with a new slashdot meme.

1. Apple decides to enter the [something improbable] market
2. Apple kicks ass at it in defiance of all logic
3. Turtleneck sweater
4. Profit

What really pisses me off is my current XP laptop is certainly going to be the last Windows unit I own so I'll be forced to make the jump on the next one to Ubuntu or OSX. I've grudgingly settled for Microsoft products because it's a shitty platform that also happens to support most of the software I use and shitty support is better than nothing. With OSX I'll still be able to run XP in a VM. Shit. Looks like I'm going to finally become one of those Mac weenies I used to make fun of.

Re:Who'da thunk it!

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

The thing about Apple stores is that actually have software which you can try out on their computers.

Quite a while ago I was in a CompUSA and I saw someone plug an iPod into one of the demo machines, drag MS Office onto the iPod icon, and walk out with it. remember thinking that OS X made application installation and transfer easy, something that was great for users, but which retailers probably had not considered.

Re:Prices aren't ideal

[uglyduckling]

I find people who heavily advocate online dealers like newegg are usually leeching shopping touch it/see it services from local boutiques. Being able to see and touch a product before buying it has value... and its an issue newegg and the like haven't really addressed. While shopping at boutiques and buying online isn't sustainable - if everyone did it, boutiques would disappear.

I base my purchasing choice on 'value added'. If I walk into a shop and they actually know what they're talking about, help me look at different options and come to a reasonable decision about what to buy, then I will happily pay 10-15% on top of the best online price. A good example of this is musicical instrument shops - I went to buy some new cymbals the other week and spent 45 minutes with the shop's drum salesman and came away with a decent set of cymbals. Most high-street computer shops (like PC World in the UK) are staffed by idiots who don't know the difference between FSB speed and on-chip cache, and will answer 'yes' to almost any technical question if they think it will help make a sale. I have no problem at all with going to their store to look at the hardware then buying online.

If the staffed-by-idiots shops disappear, it won't be a problem at all. I went to the Stuff Show [bestofstuff.co.uk] a couple of months back and was able to play with all the hardware I wanted, talk with people that know all about it (in some cases the people who designed it) and can happily order from whomever I please.

I'm sure that if the online people drive the bricks-and-mortar shops out of business it will be because the bricks-and-mortar people aren't making the best of the advantage they have - the chance to interact with the customer in person and not just make a sale but build up the kind of trust that encourages repeat business. The way to do that is to have knowledgable people on the shop floor who have a genuine passion for technology and aren't afraid to admit that they don't understand something if necessary. I'm sure there are far more tech geeks around than music geeks, so if the music shops can manage it then the computer shops can too.

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[fandog]

I don't know why that was modded "Flamebait", maybe by a fanboy? Because what he says is true:

I thought it was just my perception while in the store. Well, over christmas I talked to my sister and her husband, (two of the most non-tech savvy people I know, a marketer and a lawyer.... I know). I assumed, being the slave to fashion that my sister is, that she'd have bought an iPhone right when they came out.

Instead, it turned out that both of them commented on the attitude of the Apple store sales people. They went in to buy her an iPhone, and the sales people all had this arrogant attitude about them using windows machines, etc. They were both really put off and left. Mind you - they were prepared to buy an iPhone and possibly a computer that day, and they walked out disgusted.

So 2 months ago, my sister's marketing company bought her a new Apple, and she told them she didn't want it. They gave it to her anyway, and it's been sitting in its box unopened ever since. She went out and bought a 'regular'[sic] laptop with her own money.

Now I'm not saying this to flame or bash Apple. I'm only relating this because Apple should understand that they're losing sales this way. The arrogance probably works to pick up egocentric people to whom a computer is a status symbol, (what's with that?), but they're alienating people who just want a machine to work. It seems that this is the crowd they should be trying to cater to, with all their "it just works" advertising.

If this self-righteous attitude isn't what Apple wants to portray in their stores, then they need to clean house a bit. I've noticed this same thing in a nearby west coast Apple store, and the above story happened in a NY Apple store. If this is the attitude they want to portray, (and I suspect this to be the case,) they're doing a stellar job.

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[Blakey Rat]

Why not?

A few reasons, some of which are Apple's fault and some of which aren't. The problems that are Apple-related:

1) Apple doesn't make a tablet. I've worked with tablets for awhile, and I was sold... after seeing how good the text recognition in Vista is, I was sold twice over. Now I have a slick little HP convertible that I can draw cartoons on if I'm bored, or fold the screen around and work with a database app. I could do this on an Apple by adding an expensive Wacom tablet, but it wouldn't be portable.

2) Apple doesn't make an affordable desktop with swappable video cards. Sadly, I'm one of the sadly World of Warcraft-addicted, and although it's virtually the only PC game I ever play, I can't spend the Apple premium for a computer that I can't even upgrade to run my favorite video game better. (I was running it on a dual 1.8 ghz G5 with a Radeon 9800 before, but that machine's too wimpy to really run WOW well with the expansion.)

3) OS X does a really, really, really crummy job of handling unreliable wifi networks. Like, you know, the one I'm connected to right now on my commuter train. At least Windows won't freeze up utterly when it can't ping a share; OS X did that regularly. And don't even get me started on Apple's .Mac service. (I hear the new version finally made improvements here, but it's too late for me.)

The last item is actually Microsoft-related, although it'll get me flamed on this board: Vista's really good. Seriously, I like it, it runs my old games I gave up back when I moved to Apple in the first place and it's definitely a move in the right direction usability-wise.

Also I'm bitter that Apple *STILL* hasn't replaced all the features of OS 9 in OS X. You can't put out version 10 of a product with fewer features than version 9! I don't know how Apple supporters justify that.

I still use the big G5 tower as a fileserver for my media files. It's got RAID-1 300GB drives in it. Other than that, no more Apple in my house.

That said, I obviously like Apple, I have nothing against them, they just aren't selling to my demographic.

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[ral8158]

They're basically Best Buy employees with shaven heads and torn clothes, shot up with Apple's trademark "better than thou" attitude.

That's funny, all of the people I've met who work at an Apple store are incredibly well dressed. But your anecdotal evidence is clearly more accurate than mine.

But to me, it's like walking into a very feminine beauty parlor, or a lingerie department as a man.

Oh, well, this would explain it. You need to grow some self-esteem so that you can become comfortable with your sexuality. It is not normal to feel uncomfortable around places designed to attract the gender opposite to yours. The normal response is indifference. Your response indicates latent bisexuality or homosexuality. You might want to check up on that.
But seriously, "for normal people, it's a very alien experience"? I just don't even know how you can say that kind of thing seriously. Are all people heterosexual men in your little fantasy world? That's also kind of mccreeps. What do they do in their free time? Not have sex, apparently.

Final comments: Many people who work for Apple Stores are indeed homosexual, bisexual, transexual, or questioning. I know this for a fact because I've worked at one. The fact that the stores make you uncomfortable, and that you think that they're similar to lingerie departments run by vagrants, indicates that you have a serious reality perspective/gender identity issue.

"Genius" bar

[nick_davison]

A real conversation I had:

I'd like to buy a wireless keyboard and mouse.

I'm sorry, we don't have any.

Don't have any? It's an Apple branded product. Are you out of stock.

Kind of. The new ones are coming out soon so we sent all of our old ones back.

You sent away all of your old model stock long before you got a shipment of your new models, leaving you unable to sell anything?

Uh, yeah.

How long have you been out of stock?

A week or two.

How long do you expect to remain out of stock.

We were supposed to have them by now. But probably another week or two.

And so you have nothing to sell people who really want to give you money for a wireless keyboard and mouse, any wireless keyboard and mouse, until then?

No. Sorry.

I can see why they call you geniuses.

Re:techie

[jedidiah]

Not quite.

The technology models are a bit opposite.

WinDOS PC vendors are centered around frankenstein systems where anything can be upgraded. Highly integrated systems are available but not the norm.

Apple is centered around highly integrated systems. Apple systems where you can upgrade anything are available but not the norm (and are redicously expensive).

Re:They don't alienate 52% of the population.

[eln]

I wonder what percentage of Fry's customers are women?

Depends on what part of the store you're in. If you are hanging around the appliances or general electronics, or the coffee shop, there are plenty of women. If you hang out near the stereo equipment, you get mainly 20-something guys wearing far too much Axe body spray (as if there were a tolerable amount) ogling the Monster cables. If you go to the pre-built computers area, you will see self-important business types looking at the laptops and families looking at the desktop machines. If you head over to the computer components area, you will find almost entirely geeks looking thoroughly uncomfortable with being out in public, standing around drooling on the motherboards. If you go over to the miscellaneous electronic components area (bits of wire, resistors, that sort of thing), you'll mostly find the old-school hacker type, beards flowing magestically over their impressive guts.

Really, it's a cross-section of society you're unlikely to find anywhere else.

Re:On-site tech support is key.

[moosesocks]

Yes, but it's going quickly downhill. While I was very impressed with the Apple stores when they first opened, it seems like they're having trouble attracting good employees to work at the genius bar.

Yes, still a step above Best Buy, but the gap is sadly closing (and it's not because Best Buy's improving). Maybe it's because of the crowds.....

All in all, I've been less and less impressed with Apple over the past year or so as they've grown in popularity, and have clearly gotten lazy as a result. The level of support just isn't the same as it used to be, and the Leopard launch could have gone a lot better, considering how long it was delayed. (Granted, it's a fender-bender in comparison to the Vista train wreck, but still...)

Re:You can smell the pomposity

[Blakey Rat]

Depends on your definition of affordable. I play WoW on my quad-core 2.66 Ghz Mac Pro (with swappable ATI X1900) and it's awesome. I previously played on a Dell P4 2.4 Ghz and ATI X850.

But a Mac Pro is super overkill for this. I don't need 87 Xeon CPUs (or whatever the hell they put in them to make them so expensive), I just want to play WOW. But I can't justify the expense when it costs literally three times what a suitable Vista machine costs. I don't know what you do with it, but for playing World of Warcraft no definition of the word "affordable" fits the Mac Pro.

Tell you what, if you're willing to buy me one, I'll definitely switch back, ok?

I'm sorry your G5 sucked at WoW and couldn't be upgraded. Think of a 1.5 Ghz Celeron with an AGP slot and DDR1 RAM - there's really no way to upgrade that machine to be good either. In both cases you'd have to toss the old machine and buy a new one, since the new processors, memory, and video card wouldn't be compatible with the old motherboard.

Yeah, that's why I didn't replace it with a 1.5 ghz Celeron with an AGP slot.

What was the point of you typing that? Seriously? I don't get how it's relevant... even dirt cheap $400 computers don't use AGP anymore. And nothing's used a Celeron in ages.

Or are you implying that my G5 was as old/obsolete as a 1.5 ghz Celeron? You might have a point there if not for the following points:

1) A 1.5 ghz Celeron, even when brand new, costs something around $800.
2) My dual 1.8 ghz G5, when brand new, costs something around $2100.

Yes, yes, we all get it: You're rich, you don't care about spending uber-bucks on computers. That does't apply to me, sorry.

Yeah, the Finder sucks. Then again, Explorer also locks up on me when the share is no longer available.

Explorer sucks less than Finder in several important ways. Or at least ways that are important to me. If it locks on when shares are no longer available, I've never seen it... not to say you're wrong, just that I don't experience that problem.

Since I've never used version 9, I have no idea what's missing. I've seen some lists of "missing features" but it's always things like "some of the Apple menu functionality was replaced by the Dock, and I liked the Apple menu better". Personal preference isn't a missing feature. If there are actual missing features, I'm curious what they are?

I love how you've never used Mac OS 9 and yet you come at this problem with the approach that I'm the one who's lying.

The huge one is a spatial file browser, but like you said Finder sucks, has sucked for all the OS X releases, and I think it's probably time to give up hope for that. Too bad Apple doesn't recognize that the original designers of Mac OS might have *gasp* actually done some usability research! Or had some expertise! But no, let's trash it all and start over with mediocrity.

The feature I used all the time in OS 9 Finder that's never been added to OS X Finder is the feature where you can drag a folder window to the bottom of the screen and Finder would create a pop-up tab for it there. (They used to call this Tabbed Folders, but now when you say that people assume the tabs are in the folders, so I won't use that term.)

Apple reluctantly added colored labels back in, the 'drill down while dragging' feature back in, and they've vaguely simulated the Apple Menu behavior in a slow and irritating way, but they've never even slightly attempted to bring that feature back.

This isn't a "personal preference" it was a feature that OS 9 had and OS X does not have. (Whether or not you used this feature may be a personal preference, but that doesn't change the fact that OS X does not have it. I used it all the freakin' time.)

BTW before you criticize OS 9, or call everyone who's missing features from it a liar, maybe you could spend a few microns actually using it, huh? You won't get a response as hostile as mine next time.

A lot of my complaints really boil