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Microsoft Businesses Apple

Microsoft Says iPhone Is Irrelevant To Business 435

An anonymous reader writes "A Microsoft exec has turned attack dog, lashing out at Apple's iPhone by saying the device isn't good for business. Why? Because the iPhone is 'a closed device that you cannot install applications on.' Specifically, he's talking about Microsoft Office. 'While the entry of the iPhone (with its cut-down version of Mac OS X) into this market offers new options for consumers, Sorenson believes user familiarity with the Windows Mobile interface — and the ease with which companies can buy and develop applications for the platform — will sustain its increasing popularity and help keep the iPhone out of the lucrative corporate market.'"
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Microsoft Says iPhone Is Irrelevant To Business

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  • Jealousy and Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:12PM (#18818041)
    Yeah, because I always use my telephone to write Word documents. You can bet that if Microsoft is trying to cut this down, it means a threat to Microsoft. And this early too -- the product does not even ship until June. How does Microsoft know what the iPhone can and cannot do?
  • by robkill ( 259732 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:12PM (#18818043)
    It used to be "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA."

    I guess now it should be:

    "What's good for Microsoft is good for business."
  • by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:14PM (#18818057) Journal
    ...or something very similar to the iPhone coming out by MSFT in the next few months...

    'course, a more likely explanation is that MSFT already has a cell phone OS biz they'd rather keep protected from such things as competition, no?

    IOW: Nothing to see here, move along... :)

    /P

  • by jratcliffe ( 208809 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:15PM (#18818067)
    Irrelevant? No. Limited in its appeal to mobile corporate users? Yes. Without the ability to install custom apps on it, the chance that the iPhone will be a popular choice for mobile corporate users does seem pretty slim. That being said, I hardly think Apple cares, it's not their target market anyway.
  • Blackberry made it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gral ( 697468 ) <kscarr73@gmai l . com> on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:15PM (#18818079) Homepage
    And I haven't seen MS Office on the device. It runs Java, which is not Microsoft owned as well. Business is addicted to the things so much they are referred to as crackberries. The blackberry blackout was BIG news, so it seems to be prominent.

    I think they are being a little delusional.
  • Who exactly.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by budword ( 680846 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:16PM (#18818089)
    has ever edited a .doc on their phone ? Is there some secret sub-class of ubber biz user who works on biz docs on his phone ? I'm a geek and I've never even thought of it. Porn, well, ya. Work on that merger ? No.
  • So? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by flanksteak ( 69032 ) * on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:16PM (#18818095) Homepage

    keep the iPhone out of the lucrative corporate market

    So?

    Apple doesn't target large business/enterprise markets. They never have. Their products are always marketed as tools for empowering individuals. If you didn't know better and could only guess from reviewing their advertising, you might think that businesses don't use personal computers. Often in these cases they behave more like a consumer electronics company rather than a PC maker.

    Apple has never shipped HP or Dell level volumes and they've never seemed interested in trying. They get waiting lists for some of their products as it is.

    Adding enterprise app accessibility would only introduce bugs, increase complexity, and reduce the overall user-friendlyness of the device, none of which would be Apple's fault (and I'm not even a fanboi). Besides, can anyone imagine Jobs up on stage at some show, introducing the latest email or ERP integration piece? No one drools over that kind of stuff.

    It's clear that part of Apple's rep for simplicity is due to the avoidance of the products and systems that can't be made simple. Enterprise apps are necessary and useful, but their deployment and use are a clusterfuck and probably always will be. Apple can't change that, so why take the downside?

  • Not FOR business. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. Flibble ( 12943 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:17PM (#18818099) Homepage
    What would you rather sell? 1 iPhone to every business person, or 1 iPhone to 1 out of every 100 Mr. Joe Public? I would rather sell to the Joe Public market because of the sheer volume of sales. The target market of the iPhone is not to kill the blackberry - yet. It is to go after the market that the Razr has. And since it is essentially a pocket PC, if there is demand, then maybe other apps could be installed with later revisions.

    Apple is not stupid, they did their market research for this thing and know exactly what features Joe Public wants, not what Mr. Jack Business or Mr. Slashdot Nerdling wants. They want to woo the Joe Publics, and I strongly suspect that they will.

    I think MS is complaining because they know that the iPhone is going to destroy the Zune, and they have nothing to compete with it. Not only that, once enough Joe Public's get a hold of these things, there market for WinCE will be under fire - and then their market for Office on such devices. Apple is smart, they are picking their battles. They are not even trying to compete with the business market at this point. They are targeting a totally different segment, and MS is scared that they will win.

    Think of the changes in the marketplace, if everyone owns an iPhone in the public space, and becomes accustomed to using OS X on their handheld... What sort of PC will Joe Public consider buying after using a OS X device? I suspect more iMac's will fly off the shelves after the iPhone becomes established. I think Microsoft is seriously afraid of losing the mobile market, the DRM/Music Market, and eventually the desktop market. And the iPhone is the device that will drive in that wedge.
  • Umm, no. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:17PM (#18818107) Journal
    Since (IIRC) no one outside of Apple has even come close to actually using an iPhone for anything at all, let alone for business purposes, it'd be impossible to tell if/what the things actually do business-wise, let alone if they do them well.

    /P

  • by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:19PM (#18818133) Journal
    Simple answer: They don't.

    OTOH, they do know that the more iPhones that get bought, the less they'll make in 'doze-based cell phone OS sales ...and in the same market niches where Microsoft makes it's own money when it comes to the things.

    /P

  • by kimba ( 12893 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:25PM (#18818197)
    That exec has it pretty much spot on. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Because the type of people who'll buy the iPhone prefer form over function anyway.

    With the increase of rich applications in the browser (AJAX etc.), the need to install binaries on a mobile decreases. If, as promised, the iPhone basically has the full build of Safari on it -- then this should be possible.

    I'm no Mac fan boy, but realise with each passing year I use a web browser more, and stand-alone applications less. The iPhone fits with that trend.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:29PM (#18818229)
    LMAO!!! You know Apple is on to something when Micro$oft feels they have to work so hard to down play it. How's their own iPod killer doing? LMAO!!!

    If the iPhone was truly a bad idea Micro$oft would just keep their mouth shut and and let it die.

    As for the iPhone being closed. The majority of cell services are closed when it comes to allowing the user to put their own applications into the system/network.

    Micro$oft has dropped the ball and now the race is on. But this time they are facing some smart cookies!
  • by DragonWriter ( 970822 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:30PM (#18818243)
    Maybe so, but is iPhone really targetting the corporate market, at least initially? Nothing I've seen has suggested that. Why say that your product is better than someone who isn't even targetting in the market you are referring to? Maybe because you've got no advantage over your real competition?
  • by MidKnight ( 19766 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:31PM (#18818261)
    That exec has it pretty much spot on.

    Sure he is... assuming your office only uses desktop-installed versions of MS Office software. But what if the iPhone had a full-capability web browser installed on it [apple.com], and you used one of several web-based [google.com] Office-like [slashdot.org] applications, and your company had web-based email & calendaring interfaces, and used IM for business communication as well?

    Suddenly that non-business iPhone looks pretty darn business-capable. Microsoft has already stumbled several times in recent memory by dismissing the ability of these internet tubes to route around their monopolistic strategies... how many more of these mistakes can they afford to make?

  • by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:32PM (#18818269) Journal
    Create? No-one. View? Quit a few.
  • by Higaran ( 835598 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:35PM (#18818299)
    What is their target audience with the IPhone, the people that but $600 phones are 99% corporate users. The high end phone market which means phone $400 or above is less than 1% of phone users. So I agree to what the MS guy said, which is basically,"what average phone user will buy this thing?" Most people don't spend more than $200 on a phone, I just did but it was a blackberry, otherwise I was considering a $350 model, because it had windows mobile on it and office mobile. Thats because I run a company and benefit from those kinds of apps. Alot of people buy moble phones out of necessity, and go for the free ones with the contracts, I doubt any parent will buy their kid a phone that costs as much as a P$3.
  • by Pumpkin Tuna ( 1033058 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:36PM (#18818313)
    Go take a look at the ads for the iphone on Apple's site. Here's what you WON'T hear:

    MIKE: I need to call Chet ask him about that spreadsheet ::touches picture of guy wearing a blue tie::
    CHET: My phone is ringing! ::clicks picture of guy wearing red tie:: Hi Mike, I've got that spreadsheet you were waiting on.
    MIKE:Great, let's call Sue and look at the powerpoint!
    CHET: As long as it has plenty of bar graphs!

    See for yourself. Apple doesn't give a flying flip about the suit, at least not while they are at work. Their ads are filled with attractive youngsters talking about meeting up for bike riding and whitewater rafting! They don't CARE about the business market.
  • red herring (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:39PM (#18818345)
    What they're really worried about is that the iPhone will integrate flawlessly with iCal and Address Book. While there are some 3rd party apps that try to do this, MS has nothing to offer cell phone users on this front. And it's actually pretty damn useful, as opposed to the 'not being able to install Word' bullshit.
  • by stefaanh ( 189270 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:49PM (#18818455)
    Please will all persons here that actually use MS Office on their PDA raise there hands please?

    Anybody else? ...

    Thank you sir, you may lower your hand.
  • Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <RealityMaster101@gmail. c o m> on Friday April 20, 2007 @06:51PM (#18818493) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft complaining about a company locking competitors out? that's rich...

    On the contrary, this is why Microsoft is dominant and Apple is tiny little niche player. Microsoft has ALWAYS generously courted developers for their platforms. They understand that they can't do it all... a vibrant third-party market means more people by Microsoft's platform. Why do you think there's no such thing as the "Microsoft PC"?

    Apple has always been incredibly hostile to third parties.

  • by malevolentjelly ( 1057140 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:01PM (#18818607) Journal
    Are you suggesting running a web-based AJAX office application on a phone instead of a native mobile application?

    Why run something bloated when you can run something bloated on web page running off a web browser inside a tiny mobile phone... web office apps only make sense on actual PC's with solid connections.

    Office Mobile is designed for MOBILE PHONES it is optimized for MOBILE PHONES- I couldn't imagine running web applications on a cell phone- that's so counter-intuitive. What would happen if you went through a tunnel on at rain or something? What if you were on a plane?

    You need local office apps that play nice with your business infrastructure, so that they're always available and are not tied to a web connection. Microsoft is correct, here.

    It doesn't even matter, because a it would be retarded for a business to give its employees something like an iPhone. It's designed for doing everything BUT working. Maybe if you're working for a magazine that writes movie, tv, or music reviews...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:02PM (#18818615)
    Even if it was JUST a phone and an iPod, it would still sell.

    Why do so many ugly nerds want Apple to fail, isn't Apple PROOF that nerddom needn't be socially and aesthetically retarded?
  • by DragonWriter ( 970822 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:08PM (#18818677)

    Microsoft has already stumbled several times in recent memory by dismissing the ability of these internet tubes to route around their monopolistic strategies... how many more of these mistakes can they afford to make?


    I'm not sure they haven't already past that point, it may be that the last mistake they could afford (and maintain their top-of-the-heap position) has already been made, and not caught up to them. One place that may have been is not staying out ahead of the OLPC. One thing that isn't often mentioned about the OLPC project (not the laptop itself, but the whole program) is that, included in it is one of the biggest ground-up rethink of usability, collaboration, security, and software and information distribution for what is, essentially, massive coordinated enterprises with common platforms.

    Sure, the context is educational, but many of the issues being addressed aren't restricted to that context. If it is successful, there is going to be a lot that is applicable to the traditional, lucrative first-world enterprise market, and plenty of open-source code designed for Linux will be available for it. Potentially, it could provide the killer application that stops the question about Linux adoption from being how Linux can ape Windows features, and instead provides a compelling reason for enterprises to jump to Linux.
  • by Angelwrath ( 125723 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:17PM (#18818795)
    I'd like to suggest an axiom for writers:

    Ask a company about its competition, and they will trash the competition.

    Let's get serious here... asking Microsoft what it thinks of its competition? Such an interview has no value. The response will always be negative. Ask Microsoft about any of its competition, and the response will always be the same.
  • I'd be carefull (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:49PM (#18819079)
    The PC wasn't for the corporate market either when it came out. It was considered and ment to be a toy.

    Apple is together with Google in offering Google Maps on the iPhone. I clearly remember the impressive presentation of that specific feature. It's bound to move toward a killer application for those offering Navigation systems. And before you can say 'MS Office sucks' we're likely to have Google Apps on mobile devices. And they definitely are a competion to anything MS in the mobile area.

    Do you people still remember Ami Pro, Lotus 123 and Windows 3.1? That was all we needed back then and with the browser apps we get exactly that. On top of a bazillion layers running them on a performance hog called JavaScript. But it's all we need. With phones running 500Mhz CPUs and Full Scale Browsers stripped down versions of expensive proprietary shrinkwrap applications are getting more harder to sell by the minute. And MS is feeling that right now.
  • Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by king-manic ( 409855 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:51PM (#18819097)
    Apple doesn't target large business/enterprise markets. They never have. Their products are always marketed as tools for empowering individuals. If you didn't know better and could only guess from reviewing their advertising, you might think that businesses don't use personal computers. Often in these cases they behave more like a consumer electronics company rather than a PC maker.

    Empowering individuals? please tell me your a shill because if a real person speaks like that then the marketroids have won and we're all doomed to annihalation through mass stupidity.
  • by MidKnight ( 19766 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:56PM (#18819133)
    You've got a good point that the AJAX-y experience wouldn't be optimal on a web browser inside a cell phone. It'd be pretty crappy... but then again attempting to do most business-related things on a cell phone-based application is typically a last resort, so I still think there is some applicability here.

    I have a Palm 700p as my main cell phone. While I don't use the Office-compatible apps too often, but it's handy in rare instances. For instance, a client emails me a Word document detailing changes to a contract... it's great to be able to open the document on my phone, read it, then email or call them to discuss. That scenario is within the realm of the possibility of a web-based AJAX app, even on a mobile phone, isn't it?

    I admit I've never used the genuine Office Mobile apps. But neither of us has seen how well the browser on the iPhone (or the keyboard, for that matter) work. If it's as good as the hype (well, at least close), it may be able to bridge the gap. Should be interesting to see....
  • by foniksonik ( 573572 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @07:58PM (#18819163) Homepage Journal
    Parents buy their kids $500/$600 iPods right? (hint... they do) So what's the difference... the parents get to spend $600 on a phone/iPod and can a) save money by not getting their kid the latest iPod and the latest phone or b) spend a little more on the phone aspect of it but gain a lot of capability (mapping, web browser, etc) for their kid.. we're talking 14 yr olds here not 5 yr olds in any case. And hey, throw a calculator, an agenda and bookmarks to wikipedia and you just might get away with not buying the kid a computer at all.. just get them the $300 game console and an iPhone and their good to go and can:

    1) email
    2) IM
    3) browse websites
    4) play handheld games (save an extra $200 by not getting the latest PSP for them)
    5) phone
    6) addressbook
    7) agenda/calendar

    When my kid is old enough I'd gladly get them an (advanced) iPhone for $600 + service fee and a $300 game console, if it means I can avoid having to get them a PC + Handheld Gaming + DVD player + Music Player + Phone + Service fees

  • You Know (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @08:08PM (#18819243) Homepage Journal
    The iPhone integrated office suite doesn't even have to be good. It just has to suck slightly less than Office does. Apple gets their claws into you. They got the kids and an ever-growing number of adults with the iPod. The iPhone will subvert the CEOs and upper managers who currently force me to use Microsoft's crappy software at work. People will buy them because they're shiny. Then they'll say something like "Wow... this is actually an incredibly easy-to-use device! Maybe I'll check out an Apple computer..." Next thing you know, everyone in the family has one.
  • by dr.badass ( 25287 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @08:35PM (#18819499) Homepage
    The reason you don't see much criticism of the iPhone on Slashdot is because it isn't out yet. Seriously, why does a person like yourself have to waste energy making shit up about it?

    That one bug in the email sure is annoying. Too bad I can't try a different email app.

    You're arguing that a hypothetical bug in an unreleased product makes Windows Mobile better?

    I wish this thing played videos.

    Uh, it does. Standard MPEG-4/h.264.

    Will this thing ever support Flash?

    Nobody in any position to know has said that it wouldn't, so again you're pulling out a strawman.

    I contacted Apple for the 4th time about my need for PowerPoint support.

    PowerPoint is a Microsoft product. Complaining to Apple would get you nowhere. Even if iPhone was completely open there's no reason to think that it would have PowerPoint support. If it were truly necessary to view presentations on your phone (who does this?), any decent presentation software is capable of exporting to standard formats such as PDF, which the iPhone supports.

    Windows Mobile can do everything I need this iPhone to do and an MDA is $300 instead of $600.

    Most people consider this before buying. I don't understand why you are so mystified by it. The MDA might be fine if you don't care at all about media playback features or web browsing or Mac integration. Not everyone does. Some people care more about PowerPoint presentations, and they have a world of other phones to choose from. They're different.

    If you don't believe me, look at the Hiptop/Sidekick - http://hiptop.com/forums/ [hiptop.com] A bunch of Apple employees left and made that platform which is mostly closed.

    I know you're trying to make it sound like Danger, Inc. and Apple are somehow closely related, but the facts don't follow. "A bunch of Apple employees"? One of the founders had come from Apple. Oh, and Steve Wozniak is on the board. Whoopty shit. Furthermore, you've not actually given any evidence to support your claim that "every long-time user is tired of the same old lackings".

    The iPhone will be more locked-down and WORSE than that.

    Says who? All Apple has said is that it isn't an open platform. In all probability, Apple will operate the same way Danger does, by screening third-party software submitted to them, and selling through their store. iPhone has already been demonstrated as syncing with iTunes, and iTunes already distributes applications in the form of iPod games. It is no more closed that the Sidekick.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20, 2007 @08:44PM (#18819563)
    No, complete control and management of everyday life (including the economy) by the state is the essence of Fascism. No Fascist dictator will share his power or "partner" with something as trifling as a corporation (or with anyone/anything else for that matter).
  • A Preemptive Move (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tewley ( 415350 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @09:05PM (#18819719)
    Apple isn't after the business market by design, and Microsoft knows this. But it's likely MS has conducted research, and they can see that the iPhone has even attracted the attention of the high-end market that uses MS mobile applications on "smart" phones - a market that isn't as locked in as the desktop users. They likely don't want any of that base to defect, and this is done by jumping up and down about the importance of Office (even though it isn't as important in a mobile setting).

    It's a preemptive move to hold what they've got.

  • by RalphBNumbers ( 655475 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @10:03PM (#18820089)
    The really silly part is that there's no good reason the iPhone shouldn't support Word .doc files.

    Apple already has .doc file support (both old-style and XML-based) in the default text editor that ships with OSX. I don't see why they wouldn't use that same code in the iPhone, which basically runs OSX with a more phone-appropriate set of interface widgets, to allow viewing and rudimentary editing of Word .docs.
  • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 4e617474 ( 945414 ) on Friday April 20, 2007 @10:45PM (#18820451)

    They understand that they can't do it all... a vibrant third-party market means more people by Microsoft's platform.

    The only thing remotely related to computers that I haven't seen Microsoft try to dominate is CAD software.
    There may be a wide variety of third party software and hardware, but it's not because microsoft has just yielded the field.

    Stop. You're both right. Microsoft plays nice for a while, lets a lot of other players take all the risk of innovating to see what products keep their platform valuable, waits for the hard work of perfecting the design to be over, watches to see what features have the most to do with market appeal, and then swoops in with their version - shoddy, but universal to the platform. No sane IT department would want to vet IE as a safe and desirable application, but they don't have much choice ("I can't get on the Internet!" "What happens when you try?" "I can't. It's missing!" "What?" "The Internet! The blue 'E'! I think a virus ate it!"). Not many web application developers would want to code for IE, but it's a safe design assumption. They can't very well tell a potential corporate customer "To use all the features, you'd want to get Firefox or Opera", the company already has web filtering and proxy software, not to mention Windows group policies, that are only capable of locking down IE. Release some CRM software that doesn't suck (please, pretty please do that) and watch how quickly you get "embraced".

  • by Knuckles ( 8964 ) <knuckles@@@dantian...org> on Friday April 20, 2007 @11:32PM (#18820767)
    People think they want this. Nobody would ever use it though.
  • by garo5 ( 895321 ) on Saturday April 21, 2007 @02:16AM (#18821641) Homepage

    Have anybody ever tried developping software for Windows Mobile 5? It's fracking simple. It took me about four hours from scratch to develop a custom made gps software for my WM5 PDA with c#.

    Microsoft knows how valuable good development tools are. That's about the only thing they have done right (in my opinion).

  • by Poorcku ( 831174 ) on Saturday April 21, 2007 @04:39AM (#18822083) Homepage
    That would be accurate, if not for the fact that on a EDGE (!) phone, AJAX and other Browser apps, take forever to load. Just mentioning. /still regrets no 3G on Iphone

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