Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
The Internet Businesses Communications Media Apple

iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote 1619

Posted by Zonk
from the iphone-looks-pretty-good-eh dept.
Steve Jobs kept his audience rapt at the MacWorld keynote today. He rehashed the announcement of the iTV, now called Apple TV, and announced the iPhone, a revolutionary phone/ipod/wrist-computer that had MacWorld attendees sitting on the edge of their seats. Retailing for $499 (4 gig)/$599 (8 gig), it has to be seen to be believed. It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi. It has a camera, functions as a movie player, a music player, and can send emails and photos in the middle of a phone call. From the Engadget coverage: "'[OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications.' He's quoting Alan Kay - 'People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.' 'So we're bringing breakthrough software to a mobile device for the first time.'" Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote

Comments Filter:
  • by jgaynor (205453) <jon@gaynoQUOTEr.org minus punct> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:09PM (#17525890) Homepage
    I was drooling during the presentation - I could even stomach the price tag, but not with a provider (Cingular) who charges like $60/month plus taxes for unlimited data. This is a DATA device. Yes it's a phone, but all of the live data eye-candy is worthless if it only works within 40 feet of your house or local WAP. The $500 or $600 is only the beginning, you're going to pay FAR out the ass over the life of this phone.
  • The name (Score:5, Interesting)

    by moofdaddy (570503) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:10PM (#17525902) Homepage
    CNBC is reporting that apple was in negotiations with CISCO over the name into last night. They're supposed to sign all the paper work today, but its still unclear who will own it and how much apple will pay.
  • by SilentChris (452960) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:10PM (#17525918) Homepage
    I'm not really an Apple geek but that's some really insane hardware for the form factor. The price is hefty, but I'm impressed they packed in what they could to something that slim. It's going to be a hacker's wet dream.

    A few small thoughts:

    1.) No 3G. Wi-fi, Bluetooth, etc. are nice though.
    2.) They push it as an internet device, with messaging/email/etc. but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know. I mean, I know and you know we'll love it regardless, but will this really sway the Blackberry junkies?
    3.) What is this thing really running? "OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that? I'd be curious also what the chips are (no way in hell is PortalPlayer powering graphics like this).

    Very cool device. Should be impossible to find, but I'll get one anyway. :)
  • by 0racle (667029) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:11PM (#17525960)
    Cingular exclusive. That sucks. The announced prices are with a 2yr contract as well. Other then not switching my service just for a phone merged with a iPod, the device could have been made so much better as the return of the Newton. I was hoping for a smart phone that would work with almost any service, sync to my MacBook and could act as a bluetooth modem.

    Only interesting thing to wait for now is a release date for Leopard.
  • Beatles (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ducon Lajoie (30475) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:15PM (#17526076)
    Did anyone notice all the Beatles songs displayed during the keynote? That, and the name change to Apple inc., suggest to me that they came to an agreement with Apple records on the long-standing name and distribution issues.
  • Re:Price to high (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Danathar (267989) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:17PM (#17526140) Journal
    Who says you have to subscribe and use the phone function? How long do you think before it has skype running on it?
  • by Picass0 (147474) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:19PM (#17526172) Homepage Journal
    You might also notice the iphone doesn't ship until June. Sounds like the iPhone will run Leopard.
  • by vancondo (986849) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:22PM (#17526258) Homepage
    Yeah, but can they beat over 200 patents [blogsmithmedia.com] for advances like a touch screen?

    It may be the coolest gadget around, but its no Newton!

    Ah. Memories. Very heavy Memories..

    --
    http://vancouvercondo.info [vancouvercondo.info]
  • Contracts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by goombah99 (560566) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:23PM (#17526288)
    Most folks have 2 year contracts and at any given time half of them are less than 1 year in. Additionally bussinesses may have other sorts of contracts that employees must follow. Hence there's inertia in the system. Rich folks might take the bullet and eat the contract penalites on their current phone--after all if you're paying $600 for the phone plus paying a premium for the high level services like "visula voice messageing", and you probably have a wi-fi hotspot contract too, you're not going to care that much about a penalty price of a contract to get out of.

    The rest of us won't or cant' switch (cingular is not so good in rural areas). So cingular for a few years then they let in the other players, the price drops and we unwashed get ours after all the bugs are worked out.

    Some other thoughts
    1) The use of WiFi and the ability to have ringtones and pictures that don't cost you 2 bucks a pop from the phone company is a daring move for Cingular. WiFi means that these can be Skype phones too. So Cingular has a window of opportunity before WiFi and wimax becom ubquitous to get these folks as loyal customers while they develope some sort of way to make people pay for wifi voip.

    2) Second, this is actually great news for microsoft, palm, and everyone except balckberry. Since the iphone is cingular only there's going to be huge demand for this level of phonage tech for all the other phone services. They have to get these from some body. With apple having signed an exclusive deal with cingular the other 99% of the market will be crying out. The next generation Zune will likely look a lot like this plus it will propbably have a built in Wii controller for xbox

    3) And speaking of Wii, The apple phone has built in blue tooth and accelerometers, plus all sorts of gripping hand input modes. I wonder if it can do absolute positioning in space--maybe with that camera on the back. if so then this woul dbe an awesome game controller. rig this the the iTV (not the wii) and apple is set. Now the price looks even cheaper since you already have the home computer--if it can do the wiii thing too well bite me. Of course you'll need a couple input devices..
  • by Gwyndolen (971433) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:28PM (#17526408)
    Since when did Jobs drop the best part of the keynote?
  • by Voltar (973532) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:31PM (#17526500)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the FCC (or someone like them) pass a regulation saying that a person can change carriers without having to buy a new phone and could keep their old number? Of course, Algore could just claim "no controlling legal authority...except Appleinc." to get around it.
  • by Serious Callers Only (1022605) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:34PM (#17526564)
    Will they sell it separately?

    If they do, I'd buy one, even at this price or higher. If they don't, I'll never buy one. Many people on this story seem to share this sentiment - I wonder why Apple felt the need to tie this phone to a carrier?
  • by cjh79 (754103) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:35PM (#17526578)
    Why should I spend $500+ on a beautiful 3.5" screen that will be scratched to hell after a few weeks of 16+ hour days in my pocket? Boo.
  • Re:Contracts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geoffspear (692508) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:35PM (#17526586) Homepage
    It might not be so much an issue of Apple "letting in" the other wireless companies as the carriers not wanting a phone like this. I can assure you that nothing I've seen from Verizon Wireless makes me believe they'd ever be willing to sell a phone that's able to sync with a PC in any way. They'd sooner go bankrupt than let one of their customers rip MP3s from a CD and put them on their phone instead of paying Verizon $2 per track to download a crappy copy that can't be played on other devices. Your carrier may vary.
  • by ear1grey (697747) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:37PM (#17526608) Homepage
    Did Fon [fon.com] just get a whole new market segment?
  • Re:WITH Contract (Score:3, Interesting)

    by daviddennis (10926) <david@amazing.com> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:37PM (#17526620) Homepage
    Cingular brought the cooperation needed to create random access voice mail. If you think of how often you have gone through saved voice mail messages in search of the one you really want, you can see how important that is.

    I think Cingular and T-Mobile are related in network service, at least in some places. I know T-Mobile has traditionally had the worst service but the best handsets.

    I expected Apple to offer an unlocked phone, so I'm a bit disappointed in that regard. But to do the new features, you need cooperation from the network, so it would probably be inevitable. It's really too bad since I may move to the Philippines in the next year or so, and they won't be in Asia until 2008 :-(. Well, maybe they'll have 3G by then. I'm a bit disappointed at the use of EDGE.

    Despite all this, there's no question that I will buy this phone as long as I'm staying in the US. Once I have a move-out date it will depend on how many features work without the special cooperation from the network.

    D
  • by korbin_dallas (783372) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:39PM (#17526656) Journal
    Really, if you just dropped $600 for a phone another $179 is just change...
    Bluetooth keyboard.
    Get one here... http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ [thinkgeek.com]
  • Oooh My... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Greyfox (87712) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:55PM (#17527012) Homepage Journal
    I believe that's a nerdrection I feel coming on...

    If the phone can run SIP software (And it looks like it's just OSX so it should be able to) then you could switch over to a "One handset to rule them all" setup. At home or anywhere else where there's wifi you can connect to an Asterisk server over sip. Otherwise default to cell. The problem then becomes how to terminate your Asterisk box into the PSTN. You could get a VOIP provider (Telasip works with asterisk and you can ask them to unlock your account so that you can change your caller ID.) Or you could terminate it into the PSTN with a digium card or a SIP gateway. In either case you can provide one phone number to your customers and have asterisk fail over to the cell if your main line doesn't pick up. If you use telasip for such endeavors you can spoof your customer's caller ID to the cell network so you even know who's calling.

    Once you take control of your network endpoint in this manner the sky is pretty much the limit. Blacklist phone numbers, let your callers play hunt-the-wumpas, have a corporate-class voice responder, make free calls over enum or Dundi... pretty much anything you can think of can be done when you have that much control of your end of the phone network.

  • by Thumper_SVX (239525) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:09PM (#17527302) Homepage
    Well, first of all I like the device. I think it looks like exactly what I need to replace my aging MPX220... but probably not until next year.

    Why? Well, first of all there's the issue of locking. OK, so I use Cingular... but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign another contract with them to get this phone for $599. That's not because I'm balking at the price... I don't like to be locked to a provider. The last 4 cellphones I've purchased were all unlocked GSM phones. I pay more for them, but I get to use them wherever and whenever I want. That way when I fly to England (which I'll be doing again this year) I can pick up a Virgin Mobile SIM at the airport (or more often in London... they're cheaper there) and just pay as I go with a UK phone number for the duration of my trip. Plus then I have my regular contacts, calendar and stuff with me (not to mention my eBooks).

    I'm no on a contract with Cingular, but I stick with them today because they provide me decent coverage, decent service and don't really seem to care what kind of phone I attach to their network.

    Now, to those who ARE balking at the price with a 2-year contract... well this is a smartphone. As such, compare it to smartphones, not to the standard handsets. Even devices such as the SLVR don't compare despite their limited music-playing capability because the Apple phone is going to be a smartphone in the same way that the current PDA phones are. It just runs OSX instead of Windows CE or Palm. The price is about in-the-range that you'd expect to pay. For an unlocked phone, expect around $200-$250 more.

    Now will I pay $850 for the phone I want? Probably. I paid about $500 for my MPX220 and I've had it for two years so far. 3 years out of that investment I think is reasonable... given inflation over the last couple of years I think I can justify $850 for my next three-year investment in a decent cellphone. The fact that it'll replace my MPX220 and iPod Nano at the same time, as well as give me an OSX based system is just the icing on the cake for me.
  • by Bert64 (520050) <bert@slaSLACKWAR ... com minus distro> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:17PM (#17527494) Homepage
    How soon before this comes out in Europe? All mobile networks in europe are GSM, and our denser population means the coverage is a lot better.
  • ssh, x-windows (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blofeld42 (854237) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:18PM (#17527522)
    It should be easy to get an ssh terminal running on this thing. In fact, I think you could get X running on it.

    An obvious home run. Crackberrys are history. Every admin is going to be leashed to one of these things.
  • by JD-1027 (726234) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:23PM (#17527624)
    I'm seriously thinking just cancel the cell phone service with Cingular after buying the device.
    Just bend over, take it like a man with the termination fee, but walk away with the most awesome PDA to date.
    Or, maybe the next gen iPod will have this interface with built in WIFI and apps?
  • by jmorris42 (1458) * <jmorris&beau,org> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:34PM (#17527904)
    > There will be a developer's kit for it and what not.

    Probably. But notice what wasn't said, always the thing to do at rah rah events like this. NOwhere did they even mention being able to install, run, use normal OS X applications on the thing. Considering what a coup it would be vs WinCE, if it could do it His Steveness would have crowed about it.

    So will it be the typical mobile phone development deal, expensive development kit, massive legal hurdles in the NDA dept intended to make sure only select large development houses play and they play according to the mobile phone rules? Will the operating software in the thing be DRMed like the newest iPods so that only Apple signed binaries boot/run? Steve didn't say, and the silence is disturbing.
  • by LKM (227954) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:38PM (#17527988) Homepage
    The PS3 is a toy. This is a useful tool. It's easy to justify spending 600 bucks on something that will help you save time and money. It's not easy to justify spending 600 bucks on a toy you play with during the evenings.
  • Re:Contracts (Score:2, Interesting)

    by aikon29 (563393) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:40PM (#17528038) Homepage

    I, too, have one of those and I can't recommend it to anyone.

    Windows Mobile seems to like to freeze every now and then so I'll miss calls without knowing it until I try and turn on the screen and see nothing but black. The phone is also HUGE. It's not fun to carry it around in your pocket one bit.

    I'm not the only one I know that has one of these or other Windows Mobile phones. Some other people I work with have them and they freeze on them as well.

  • by glindsey (73730) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:43PM (#17528148)
    Oct 23, 2001: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

    What amazes me about this is that the iPod was introduced after September 11th. It is so ubiquitous now, so ingrained into our media and culture, that I had completely forgotten it is, comparatively, such a recent product.

    I think that's really a testament to how good Apple marketing and design departments are.
  • So true... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall (25149) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:49PM (#17528316)
    I do think it's pretty clear the partnership with cingular alone is solid, since the network has to support some of the special features they are offering - later we might see more providers.

    However I agree that whatever carrier they chose there would be mre complaints. I was actually pretty happy with Cingular since I had actually heard a few good things about them and I have tried most of the other majors and found them all annoying so far, which is why I keep switching.

    Honestly the Apple phone looks useful enough that even if the carrier kind of sucks, I can still find a lot of value in it.

    What I am hoping is wrong is the length of contract required, I'd really prefer a year even if it cost a bit more.
  • Re:Leopard? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @03:51PM (#17528380)
    Jobs last words were "See you soon" in an almost wink wink nudge nudge way. I expect there will be some other venue where Apple will debut the rest of the Leopard features in the next few months.
  • Re:Contracts (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mgabrys_sf (951552) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:32PM (#17529364) Journal
    Verizon cripples their phones by turning off any OBEX capability. Basically the bluetooth can only synch with address lists. That's it. Photos, tunes, anything else basically is locked out. You can hack it - but trust me - this isn't a simple task. I work with a cell-phone software company, but not everyone else does. Having an open-phone that has as much functionality as an ipod as a phone - and a camera that matches the pixels of my current cannon mini is very - very tempting indeed. I'd probably keep the Verizon just for the family calling plan it's attached to until it expires, and use Apple's as my main-phone.
  • by git68 (957160) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:40PM (#17529552)
    ahh but can it run linux...
  • by Luminous (192747) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:47PM (#17529720) Journal
    Seeing the difficulties Nokia and Motorola is having with the cellphone market I don't think this is going to be as fantastic as the commentary here has indicated. It is a solid market move for Apple, but if I'm a Sprint person happy with my phone and I already have a video Ipod, what will this do for me? I'm admittedly not a cellphone geek and don't give a flying leap about how thin, colorful, or hip a phone is - I want a phone I can hear and other people can hear me when I talk through it. That is all. I don't need a phone that is a kick ass camera... I have a kick ass camera for that purpose.

    Breathe deep and let's actually see these things in action. Let's see how it reacts as your face pushes against the screen, etc.

  • by dreamer-of-rules (794070) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:54PM (#17529864)
    Apple is pushing/promoting widget development in Leopard with both the Safari web-clipper (for users), and a XCode IDE for making full-featured widgets (for developers). So I'd say, yes, you can develop for it. I don't know about Terminal, but I'd say it's very likely, given that it's running OS X (probably Leopard) and iPod games (right?).

    I'm looking forward to the inevitable bluetooth mini keyboard/touchpad.. someone will probably build that into a storage case, and that would make VNC-on-the-go a snap. wow.

    i'm only disappointed that it's exclusive with Cingular, but I expect that'll change in 2008. And it won't stop me from buying it as soon as they get FCC approval. :)

    PS. When is the "iTunes" name going to change?
  • by dr.badass (25287) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:54PM (#17529870) Homepage
    but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know.

    The screen appears to be able to distinguish between light and firm pressure (IIRC, Apple has a patent to this effect). The on-screen keys enlarge with light pressure, and register a click with firm pressure, which I imagine significantly reduces the error rate from accidental presses vs. for example, a Palm touch-screen. I imagine it responds much more like a real keyboard, which probably matters more than the tactile feedback of a rubbery button.

    Also, since it has a standard iPod dock connector, it's probable that you'll see 3rd party keyboards by the time it launches.

    "OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that?

    It's entirely possible (compare any number of Linux-based portable devices, like the Nokia 770), and I doubt Apple would choose not to use what they have available. The question is where does the iPhone's OS X diverge from Mac OS X, and how easy is Apple going to make it to develop for?*

    (* if I put a quarter in my "end a sentence with a preposition" jar, I'll be able to afford an iPhone by june.)
  • Re:Contracts (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JulesLt (909417) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @05:04PM (#17530068)
    See the internet features more as a projection of the future - I can't see myself paying my network at their data rates to use them, or even at most wifi hotspots, but I spend most of my day at work or home, within range of private WiFi networks, and I could see myself using a device like this for a lot of light browsing tasks (reading email, etc) - and using widgets and the Amazon / Ebay APIs, someone is bound to make a better scaled interface (the zooming in / out would get annoying - it's why I gave up the PSP as a web device after a brief experiment).

    Going forward - you can already see the cross contracts for wifi hotspots with network providers - and people like Murdoch and NTL/Virgin going for combined mobile/TV/broadband/phone packages. The obvious thing is a 'one-stop shop' contract, which is what consumers want (even if they're better off shopping around).

    You're right that about it being expensive though. I presume we'll see most of the UI re-used in the next full-size iPod revision, and to be honest just that with a wireless internet connection would keep me more than happy.
  • Not quite (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @05:06PM (#17530112)
    Portable devices in the year 2012 will not resemble todays technology nearly as much as the iPhone resembles the Blackberry. We are at the brink of a revolution in Computer-Human-Interfaces - computer ergonomics will be VERY different 5 years from now, much more integrated and intuitive. Think of small and comfortable 3D-headsets, infrared scanning of hand gestures, or highly sophisticated voice control.
  • Closed captioning (Score:3, Interesting)

    by awtbfb (586638) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @05:35PM (#17530726)
    Screw the tuner card. I can get an EyeTV box for the main computer. What I want is support for closed captioning in AppleTV and stuff I download from the iTunes store.

    In my house, this product might as well be a paperweight without CC support.
  • by unPlugged-2.0 (947200) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @05:47PM (#17530932) Homepage
    Ok,

    I can see the slashdot/mac crowd is already coming up with creative ideas. Using this as a game system is a little far out. I mean come on using this as a wii type controller sounds cool until it takes a little flight out of your oily hands. However I think the real potential is in the car.

    Many cars already have iPod integration now imagine if they had iphone integration. All you do is plug the iPhone presumably through the same type of connector as the ipod. It will automatically work as the iPod does but also now will plug into the handsfree system of your car. That would be really sweet.

    The icing on the cake would be if there was a OSX interface for your car central dashboard. There are already many people with touch screen devices. Now the iPhone becomes the enabling point for the whole car experience. With a navigation widget and your own custom built widgets you can automatically get a nav system and any thing else the creative Mac Widget community comes up with.

    This would be a neat idea and something I would definitely like to see.

    Now if only it could do something to improve people's driving. Especially in the New York area. Now that would be a real revolution Steve.

  • Re:You're wrong. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bunco (1432) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @05:48PM (#17530954)
    I'll be the first to admit that Ubuntu vs. Debian was a terrible (i.e. completely erroneous) example. However, I'm quite sure that plenty of derivative distributions exist. And regarding the Microsoft equivalent, as another slashdotter pointed out, NT vs. NT embedded would be a far better example.

    I don't care to argue semantics or challenge the ever omniscient wikipedia. I'm sure you understood the point I was trying to make.. that is that OS X is not just XNU. I believe that XNU as well as the many software layers above it comprise OS X.

    XNU could be easily ported and optimized for use on embedded devices. However, it seems awfully bloated for the task. For example, since CPU is a precious commodity, why use a microkernel in the first place? Does the OS really need I/O kit? Above the kernel, I'd expect core and application services to be _much_ lighter.

    It seems that instead of going crazy with preprocessor macros, it makes more sense to fork many of the OS X layers while striving to maintain a homogeneous API.

    Anyway... I could pontificate all day. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
  • by victim (30647) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @06:02PM (#17531194)
    The camera costs nearly nothing. Disabling it costs even less. I recommend you fill the lens divot with epoxy and set something pretty in the top, perhaps a small earring with the stud removed. There. No camera and a little personalization for your phone.
  • Computers? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fyngyrz (762201) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @06:14PM (#17531382) Homepage Journal

    I'm sure the iPhone is going to be a lovely product for phone users; me, I'm not too hot on cellphones (or any kind of phone, for that matter. I never did like being interrupted.) I do have an iPod, but I don't use the Apple store (because I prefer not to buy DRM'd materials. I just buy CDs and put tracks into the iPod from there.) So my main connection with Apple is their computers.

    I noticed that (aside from the fact that the iPhone runs OSX) there really weren't any "computer" announcements today. Intel announced quad-core CPUs yesterday, and the rumor mill was mumbling about a dual-chip (hence 8-core) Mac desktop; likewise, the mini could use some attention in the graphics area, and the macbook pro still needs (and still has room for) a full keyboard and numeric pad, not to mention a second button on the trackpad.

    The iTV / Apple TV... well, aside from the fact that you won't be able to get one for a little while yet, I'm not sure what it'd do for me that I can't already do. Apparently, the marketing went right over my head. Anyone have a summary of why this is an interesting product in a world of tivos, dvrs, frontrow, hi-def dvd and xbox and ps3 and so on? Aside from giving Apple a vector to sell DRM'd movies?

    While I'm sure expanding into phones will be a great moneymaker for Apple, I can't help feeling disappointed. Just my .02

  • by daviddennis (10926) <david@amazing.com> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @06:49PM (#17531910) Homepage
    I watched the introductory video C-Net has and they pointed out that there is apparently an opening for the SIM card on top of the device. Since the iPod dock connector is on the bottom, the slot on the side could be for a flash card -- or anything else.

    I wish they had a keyboard and display adapter for when you want to type lots of stuff into it, like addresses or notes. The power of this device seems to just be dying for a larger display, especially for those of us with lamentably aging eyes. I wonder if this could be fixed up as an iPod accessory out of the dock.

    Also, when I saw the introductory video it seems pretty clear that they are encouraging third party development for the device. Why do I say this, when it seems to fly in the face of the evidence of it being a tightly-integrated, Apple-only gadget?

    Because of the discussion of MacOS X and the mention of Core Video and other MacOS X-based technologies. The only reason Core Video, etc, would be mentioned is to pique developer interest. This also means that there is almost certainly a way to get terminal and SSH through the device, as well as develop and install third-party software for it. This is an interesting departure from the iPod.

    Another interesting correlary of this is that Word - or at least Notepad, which can read Word files, should work fine. And in that case, the support for word processor and spreadsheet files should be superior even to the Blackberry and Palm. Some people on the C|net forums mentioned that Blackberry and Palm should not be too concerned about the device due to its lack of support for documents sent in email; I would not be surprised at all if you could not only read, but edit these documents with the new device. If I'm right, Steve's demo, awesome though it was, has only scratched the surface of the new device's power.

    Anyone have any idea what the CPU, memory and other tech specs are? It wouldn't surprise me if the memory was upgradeable (thus that slot) and needs to be for the device to work up to its full potential.

    D
  • by daviddennis (10926) <david@amazing.com> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @07:02PM (#17532114) Homepage
    A tanatalizing hint: When you saw the mention of it running MacOS X, the slide behind Steve mentioned all the technologies surrounding it, including things like Core Video.

    I don't think Steve would mention Core Video if it was not there for third-party developers to use. This is a huge change from the iPod, but remember that the iPod operating system was not made by Apple. Odds are that it didn't have the power to work well as an open system.

    Also note that the widgets are very similar to Tiger widgets. I think that at the very least, widgets developed for MacOS X will run on the phone with at most minor changes.

    Steve wants to show off the phone to consumers, so it's natural for him not to play up the idea of third-party support, until it actually exists. Next year at this time, he may well brag about all the third-party folks who have beavered away to create wonderful stuff for it. But the device was secret until now, so that has to wait.

    D
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @07:33PM (#17532580)
    I'm not suprised that they didn't have a tuner card - they are trying to provide a new way of distributing and watching media. Besides standard cable tuners are rapidly being fased out, and the cable companies are dragging their feet with cable card, so cable set-top boxes is not a market that I would be trying to break into.

    But the other thing that struck my eye is that it doesn't appear that you can buy stuff from the iTMS using the Apple TV - it looks like you have to buy it on the computer using iTunes and then let it sync with the Apple TV. I can't tell from the info if it will "sync" partial files, or if you have to wait for the entire thing to download.

    I was hoping that this would compete favorably with the media services offered on XBox Live, but I am underwhelmed. Neither of them is a complete solution yet (rent vs buy, etc) but I have to say that Microsoft has done a better job than Apple here.
  • Re:Contracts (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ozmanjusri (601766) <aussie_bob@hotmail.cOPENBSDom minus bsd> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @08:16PM (#17533104) Journal
    It's a video iPod and a half-mac. It can stand on its own, without the phone.

    Yep, so near and yet so far...

    If it had a VGA-out adapter and some way of plugging in an external keyboard and hard drive, I'd ditch my laptop in an instant.

  • by hotsauce (514237) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @09:01PM (#17533590)
    http://www.blackberry.com/developers/downloads/jde /index.shtml [blackberry.com]

    Free download of IDE and simulator. Example app code, great documentation. No NDAs.

    There is no need to limit development for the iPhone, and with the business smarts it took Apple to create this thing, it is unlikely they will criple it by trying to limit development.

    Why would they? They are not Sony trying to milk a marketshare, they are the iPod company coming to a market they want to dominate. The amount of engineering resources it took to create this thing shows they will do what a takes for a piece of the pie.
  • by zerofoo (262795) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @09:18PM (#17533744)
    The iPhone looks like a great device, but no company I know will deploy them....why?

    No Exchange support.

    Sure, it supports POP and IMAP, but full exchange support is much more than that. Having deployed hundreds of Treos, Blackberries, and Windows Mobile devices, I can say that Exchange support is necessary if you want to sell into the corporate market.

    Maybe Goodlink will support the iPhone but, now that Motorola owns them, I doubt it.

    -ted

  • Re:Say what? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CODiNE (27417) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @09:26PM (#17533846) Homepage
    How do you figure? Most smartphones include less than 1GB of storage, and are at best expandable (at added expense) to about 2GB. The Treo 750, at $399+2 year Cingular contract only includes 128MB.


    Eh, I got a new Treo 650 from Sprint for $150 with a hidden price-matching option. I then got a 4GB Adata SD card off eBay for something like $80. Had to use the ROM updating tool (grack.com) but it can now see the whole card and who knows how much larger?

    Hopefully when the 8GB and 16GB cards come out I'll be able to read those too. Upgradable memory is very nice. I love Apple, but I see the memory size for what it is... a future upgrade guarantee. Adding an SD slot would have made this the phone that could last me forever, but as it stands I'm quite content with what I have and don't see any REAL NEED for me to get it.

    On the other hand if they added video out I would sell the MBP and get an iMac, then use the iPhone for my presentations. I'm sure Steve has already thought of that, the iPhone is intentially designed so as to not canniblize the laptop market.
  • Speculating (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ubernostrum (219442) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @10:44PM (#17534474) Homepage

    I can think of a few possible explanations for the lack of Leopard in the keynote:

    • Most of the developer-related changes in Leopard -- which are the ones that really need to be pre-announced -- are already out in the open, and have been since WWDC. So the iPhone got to take center stage at MacWorld and get all the attention.
    • A number of previews of 10.5 developer tools that I've seen are built to expire in July, which would seem to hint at a summer release; that would be closer to WWDC 2007, which would mean that's the logical time to demo the finalized OS (and also to announce new machines shipping with it preinstalled).
    • The main unresolved thing about Leopard is a hint Jobs dropped that there were UI changes on the way; the last time Apple did a significant UI refresh, they kept it secret until the last possible minute. If Leopard contains significant new UI, it wouldn't be surprising if they kept a lid on it again.
    • Adobe's Creative Suite 3 (including the much-clamored-for Intel-native Photoshop) is still in beta, and waiting to release 10.5 at around the same time as the final CS3 would give many Mac users who live and breathe Photoshop a compelling reason to upgrade immediately, boosting initial adoption.
  • by Atryn (528846) on Wednesday January 10, 2007 @12:07AM (#17535120) Homepage
    there is no public SDK for this device
    That seems odd to me and I wonder if they won't change that before long. Given the highlighting of widget functionality and the inherently developer-friendly nature of widgets on OSX...

    Also found it very strange that there was no interface to iTunes Store... I suppose you can use Safari on it to go to the Store, but your purchases would only be available after returning to your PC, dowloading and syncing?

  • Re:iChat integration (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Serious Callers Only (1022605) on Wednesday January 10, 2007 @08:08AM (#17537918)
    Where the HELL is iChat integration? As in, IM'ing or calling your iChat contacts, maybe not from GSM / Edge network, but at least from any WiFi hotspot? I certainly hope they thought about it?!

    This is an obvious progression, as is audio and video ichat. The thing is, if they put that in straight away, what telco in their right mind would partner with them? Apple would basically be saying 'We're going to make your entire business model obsolete, would you like to support our phone?'. The telcos would be extremely unhappy about people moving over to text messaging at data rates instead of SMS for example. Even now they must be treading a fine line with telcos knowing that in future their interests and Apple's diverge drastically.

    At present Apple need the big telecos to get their phone supported and accepted in the market. Over the next few years that will change, particularly if they can tempt many ipod users to switch to this product and build up a large userbase which demands support for their phones. Once Apple are established in many markets worldwide and too big a presence to crush, expect them to use that weight to introduce text and audio chat, video conferencing etc over wifi (perhaps later WiMax) eventually bypassing the telecom networks completely for many customers most of the time (those who live in wifi saturated areas. They can do all this with a simple software update.

    Personally I think opening up the software side will be more important, as it can allow third party vendors to do things that Apple wouldn't dare to do on their own. Aside from the functions you mentioned, soon these devices will be able to replace a laptop, if you can use them with a bluetooth keyboard and TV, but all that will depend on a healthy software ecosystem, so here's hoping Apple sees the light and releases an SDK for it.

God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein

Working...