iPod May Become Next Fair-Use Battleground 334
jaredmauch writes "USA Today is reporting on a trend of selling iPods on eBay which are preloaded with music and movies. This raises interesting questions about the legality of the files, including those that offer seemingly legitimate services of transcoding DVDs for the iPod video (while selling you the DVD disc as well)." An example from the article: "A 60-gigabyte video iPod loaded with 11,800 songs, with a starting bid of $799. The iPod alone would cost about $400. 'I don't see how it's different than selling a used CD,' seller Steve Brinn, a Cincinnati pediatrician, wrote in an e-mail to USA TODAY. 'If the music industry asked me not to do it, I just wouldn't do it.'"
distinction... (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this someone selling many of these iPods, making many copies of digital songs when they don't have permission to? That would seem pretty clear-cut illegal.
Or
Is this someone selling their iPod and the only copy they have of the songs, which they acquired legally. How can that possible be illegal?
In the case of the article, it's clearly someone running a business with pirated music. But, if I wanted to sell my loaded iPod and don't have copies of the music elsewhere, is there really a law on the books that stops me?
I also think the question at the end of the article is apropos: If you own a DVD, can you legally put the movie on your iPod at all given DMCA restrictions?
Not a fair use issue (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:could be legal (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Meaningless (Score:2, Interesting)
Best anti-DMCA example (Score:4, Interesting)
This is somewhat off-topic, but this is the best example to show your friends, family, and senators why the DMCA is bad. Here we have a perfect example of something we should be legally allowed to do with traditionaly copyright law (space-shift), it's certainly technically feasible, and there is demand. But we can't actually legally do it, because of the DMCA.
Back on-topic, selling iPods preloaded with media is most likely illegal, unless you include the original media in the sale. (Just like selling any other type of copy of media is illegal).
Re:Not exactly (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not exactly (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately, I think what's going on on ebay is essentially selling the same music multiple times while still retaining the original. IOW making a profit off of illegal copying.
Limited value....... (Score:3, Interesting)
As a potentional consumer, this sort of preloaded iPod deal seems to be of limited value.
Not only will an iPod *not* allow you upload songs onto your computer, for storage, but if you want to actually add any more songs at all, you'd have to reformat the iPod to accomodate the new iTunes account, taking all those songs with it. So, why would I want an iPod with someone else's music collection on it?
The idea does raise a geniunely evil possibility though. I'm no fan of DRM, but I can see why musicco's are worried. If I collect tens of thousands of MP3s from eMusic, etc., and came into a financial pinch where I needed money quickly, what would stop me (besides the FBI) from selling a collection of DVDs ("Great Pop Music Through the Decades. All Artists Included!") for like $1,000 or $10,000 each? AS few discretly handled deals and I could be sitting pretty.
joab
Re:Meaningless (Score:5, Interesting)
The obligatory "You must delete all of this as soon as you get the laptop if you don't own every piece of software ever written for OSX" line is a hoot too.
This is wrong. There's no justification for it. If I were calling the shots on ebay this would get your auction shut down. A second offense would get your account shut down.
Larger question: Proof of ownership? (Score:2, Interesting)
Should be legal... (Score:3, Interesting)
A 60-gigabyte video iPod loaded with 11,800 songs, with a starting bid of $799. The iPod alone would cost about $400. 'I don't see how it's different than selling a used CD,' seller Steve Brinn, a Cincinnati pediatrician, wrote in an e-mail to USA TODAY. 'If the music industry asked me not to do it, I just wouldn't do it.'"
The example we get in the article summary has a few conditions to consider. IF the seller actually owned all that music, and has proof of ownership (i.e. receipts), then transfer of sale is perfectly legal, especially since it's sold on a medium (the iPod). (Parallel example: I can order a custom-track CD from a music publisher online, get the CD, then sell the CD later.)
But come on... eleven thousand, eight hundred songs? He would have had to shell out $11,800 for all that music! There's no way that he'd part with it then for $800. In a case like this, it almost seems like the seller is deliberately inflating the value of the merchandise, without himself legally owning any of that music. That's piracy.
Reading the article, we get something even more dubiouly legal, a "condition of sale":
In the listing, the seller says the buyer [of a "brand new" 60-giabyte video iPod loaded with 10,000 songs plus more than 50 movies and TV shows] "must already own all of the music and DVDs.
Oh my goodness, where do I even begin? So I can sell someone a gun, say, and then tell them, "If you've ever been convicted of a violent crime, then you must never use this gun," and then I'm off the hook? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The seller has certain responsibilites that they must abide by for a legal sale. For guns, it's doing a background check. For iPods, it's owning the music that comes on the iPod.
If you own this music, you either a) transfer the music to a computer and delete it from the iPod, then sell the iPod, or b) sell the music with the iPod, including the proof of ownership. Anything else, and you're seriously in danger of getting the RIAA on your ass.
This all works out fine until... (Score:2, Interesting)
While it's definately illegal, it seems that it wouldn't be a huge amount different than listening to the radio. There are only so many things you can play, and can't change them too easily (with the radio, I suppose you could always drive down to the station and drop off a CD...)
Similar to selling personal cassette copies? (Score:2, Interesting)
However, IMHO, selling MP3 players with the added feature of loads of tunes/movies as a means of upping the price for the product seems as though it isn't really a legal application of the music user's rights.
In addition, is selling an MP3 player loaded with music is perhaps identical to selling hard drives, generic video tapes, audio tapes, CD-Rs and DVD-Rs with music/movies already on them? Why would selling a loaded MP3 player (much like a storage device) be any different than selling storage devices loaded with music/videos?
I'm not sure that this is the same thing exactly as transferring one's RTU of software. In theory, one can sell one's software (if the EULA allows it), provided that no copies will be retained by the seller, and that all materials, copies, and license are transferred to the purchaser. Are we saying that if we sell an MP3 player loaded up with goodies, that we will then delete all other copies of soft-copy-purchased media? Do we also give the purchaser all hard-copies (perhaps original CDs, tapes, etc.) of the media?
Whether or not one likes (the RIAA/MPAA, intellectual property, patents, or other creation protections/protectors), isn't selling MP3 players loaded with content effectively giving away "copies?"
Like I said, I don't have a law degree with this... just expressing opinions...
Re:Bullshit, Bullshit, and more Bullshit (Score:2, Interesting)
Selling an ipod full of illegally downloaded music though is another story, if you are selling songs you bought it should be ok, if you are selling songs you downloaded then it isnt.