MacWorld Keynote Announces x86 iMac & Laptop 1607
Steve Jobs began giving his keynote at 9am local time, PST. The action was posted live at MacRumorsLive, and Engadget. From the Engadget liveblog: "How many [iPods] did we sell last quarter? Some of the estimates were getting astronomical - 8 million, 9 million. I'm really pleased to announce that last quarter we sold 14 million iPods .. that is over a hundred every minute, 24/7 throughout the quarter. And it still wasnt enough. We've now sold over 42 million iPods -- as you can see the curve is going up again" MacWorld and Ars Technica has coverage as well. The shiniest news: MacBook Pro. iSight, Front Row; $1999 1.67 Core Duo; 667 DDR bus, Radeon x1600; $2499 1.83GHz. Intel chip.
Stupid name (Score:4, Interesting)
What do you guys think?
-Sj53
The MacBook Pro (Score:1, Interesting)
Photocasting? Ugh (Score:4, Interesting)
Thanks Steve, but the Associated Press has been standardized on pheed for well over a year now.
Don't like it (Score:1, Interesting)
A little history (Score:5, Interesting)
iLife update (Score:2, Interesting)
Web site size. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Never Microsoft Windows again. (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, while I was always die-hard Apple supporter (I'm typing this on my fourth Apple-branded laptop) I appreciate the fact that now I will be able to dual boot in Windows and play the games not-yet or not-at-all released for MacOS. I actually do have a copy of "Deus Ex 2" waiting for the release of Intel-based Macs. Now I'll be able to dust it off... and play on a soon-to-be-mine iMac.
Something I really like... (Score:5, Interesting)
Power Up With MagSafe
The new power adapter with MagSafe connector is designed to magnetically guide your cord into place and disconnect smoothly if someone (else) trips over it.
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I think that's awesome. I can't tell you how many times I've grabbed my PowerBook thinking it wasn't plugged in, only to have the chord yanked out, or worse, have the laptop almost pulled out of my hands.
Re:FIrewire 800 (Score:4, Interesting)
I think that's exactly what they're doing -- the most recent iPod rev doesn't have a Firewire interface for example. It seems that USB 2.0 may have eaten Firewire's lunch -- speeds are comparable, and -- as of pretty recently -- USB comes in a wireless flavor. Even when Firewire was going gangbusters, not every machine (I'm speaking now in the broader universe of all consumer computers, desktop and laptp, not just Apple Powerbooks) had Firewire, but they all had USB. I suspect that firewire will stick around for certain applications, but that if you really want to use it with new Mac laptops, you'll need a Firewire-USB dongle adapter.
I want one... NOW (Score:4, Interesting)
Low Resolution (Score:5, Interesting)
My 10" laptop has 1280x768 for goodness sakes.
Re:What he DIDN'T say (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of people must have missed the SNL skit where Steve Jobs introduces the ipon iMini, then says "Its' obsolete", "Since when did that happen?" "Ths morning"
Then he introduces the ipod iMicro, then says "But its obsolete too", "Since when"? "5 minutes ago"
Then he "shows" the ipod iNVisible - "holds every song ever recorded, all the video you could ever watch, and its so small you can't see it. And when you drop it, it doesn't fall - it f-l-o-a-t-s" "Sure, Steve, whatever ... go away"
MagSafe connector (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:European Price? (Score:2, Interesting)
£1429 base MacBook
£929 base iMac
As usual, something of a "market adjustment". Must buy Mac on holiday!
Re:FIrewire 800 (Score:5, Interesting)
Another likelihood to the lack of FW 800 includes Intel (who developed the USB spec and may have asked Apple to push USB2 instead), as well as problems in heat or design that prohibited use of FW 800. I'm betting for simplicity + Intel pressure. We've already seen Apple choose USB2 as its dominate sync interface for iPods, and this is a reflection of that change.
Overall, not a bad introduction for a new 'book, but betware the Rev1 Effect. Remember the first PowerPC systems? Not bad, BUT...
Re:Geek Ready? (Score:3, Interesting)
I was a Windows user since 1993, and Macs absolutely kick ass for development, I can SSH into them and use them just as I can my Linux servers (though the tools are not Gnu and require some getting used to). Noone in my family wants to use the badass Windows system that I built less than a year ago, they all want to use my Mac.
I'm not artsy-fartsy or at all trendy, but I've been a Mac freak for the last 5 months (it took me one month to get used to it) and I'm geeky as hell.
Re:So the big question is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Gaps (and lack of) in the product line (Score:2, Interesting)
People expect speed from a pro laptop, and Apple's never had it, so that had to be an Apple priority. People can live with the low-performance consumer model.
The chip is not powerful enough to run the whole Power Mac line, so it can't go there yet. But the chip also fits well into the iMac, so why not do it. I don't know why they didn't do the mini.
Expect Intel iBooks ("Macbooks") and Mac minis soon, then maybe for the Pro to get upgraded to a Centrino Duo. Intel Power Macs are probably way off, unless they go nuts with 4x Core Duo or the next Xeon is a lot better than the current one.
Re:Intel! (Score:3, Interesting)
And the store is Appledotted
I've been an apple user for over 20 years now (I must be getting old, I've said the over 20 years thing for a bunch of stuff now
I thought that MacOS whatever to 9 was not good, the hardware was slow, and I just was OK mostly with UNIX and Linux, and then I got a PowerBook with 10.3 on it, and I am hands down convinced that OS X is the best OS I have ever used for general purpose interactive use.
I never thought that I would get excited about whatever a CEO (or whatever title SJ is), but I am actually reading the transcripts and I am enthusiastic about many of the new hardware and software announcements. I'm even impressed with the iPod success even though I don't like them. I believe there is a lot of branding and hype right now for them, but I've also heard that people like them too. Unfortunately, they are not flexible enough for my needs.
Intel iMacs that look just like the old ones. Nice.
Intel MacBooks. Nice.
Tons of updated software. Nice.
I was skeptable about the Intel transition. Some, I don't like x86 stuff. Some its a little religious because of previous terms like Wintel. But I believe that Apple can pull off the transition. I don't like to bash MS for the fact that they are MS, but I like to bash them because its so easy (bully on little kid). But MS has so much legacy crap AND still breaks current software with every service pack. OS X is not perfect in its updates either, but better than what I hear from MS.
I respect Apple as a company and community. Their QA is pretty good. Their software is excellent (except quicktime). Their hardware is excellent.
As far as "Desktop" OSes go, I believe that Apple is the one to follow. I wish I worked for them to get some of the annoyances out of OS X. I'm easy to annoy, and they are fixable, and maybe not widely accepted.
Ironically, I would still like for a decent media player for OS X or at least one that plays audio and one that plays video. VLC is the best for video, but is not very stable and its full of usability bugs. Its the most reliable to double click on a movie and have it play. The GUI and bugs are horrible on OS X. iTunes would be fine (maybe) if it were more extensible with media formats, but if it doesn't play my media, its worthless. Even when there was flac and ogg development going on in both iTunes and quicktime (don't know where the overlap ends), the software simply did not work, or was unreliable, or it would work in quicktime but not itunes. very frustrating.
No low end machines ?!? Mac mini, iBook ?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not package the new iMac guts in a case without a monitor? I understand the desire to use their allotment of Yonah processors in the machines that will give them the highest markup, but all the PC fanboys are going to complain now that they don't want to pay for a monitor just to upgrade their machines... and even Mac fanboys aren't going to buy PowerMacs, iBooks, or Mac minis when iMacs and this ( IMHO poorly named ) "Mac Book Pro" are so far ahead of them and clearly on the way out, if not already gone.
Anyone have thoughts on why there were no Mac mini, iBook, or eMac updates ( or Intel conversions ) today ? What is going to happen there ?
Re:Never Microsoft Windows again. (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, this is the most important remaining question about this entire announcement. Is it really the case that one can install Windows on Apple's new hardware? Can any geeks out there truly verify this? Has anyone actually gotten the shipping hardware and tried to install Windows on it and successfully gotten it up and running with a dual-boot configuration?
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has implemented some kind of unique encrypted handshaking between the OS X installer and the hardware so that only Apple's OS can be installed on it, so that they can avoid receiving support calls from people who put Windows on Apple hardware. Keep in mind that even if they refuse to provide support for such a configuration, the bulk of a support call's cost is in the customer placing the call in the first place. If someone calls only to be told "we don't support that", that has already cost Apple a good bit of money.
2 bad things about the new Power...MacBook (Score:2, Interesting)
The ExpressCard/34 slot chosen by Apple is not form factor compatible [expresscard.org] with current PCMCIA cards - No more Verizon 3G wireless broadband until (And if) they release a compatible card - BAD, BAD, BAD!
Battery life? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:FIrewire 800 (Score:5, Interesting)
USB 2.0 comes practically free with any modern chipset. Firewire does not. A good firewire interface will take 2-3 sq inches of PCB realestate, and add $1-2 to the total cost. The only area where firewire gained some market hold was with digital video cameras, and those now include USB 2.0. Lastly, very few pieces of equipment can even use firewire 800 to it's fullest. USB 2.0 is cheap enough and fast enough to do 99% of what needs to get done. Further you don't have as much customer confusion between ports and cable types and powered vs unpowered ports.
So all that means is that there's a very small slice of people who need firewire for which USB cannot work. They can get a card in the laptop, and Apple can save a few dollars per Mac.
Those who complain about it most are usually doing so for emotional reasons more than logical reasons. Much like those complaining that the new notebook should be referred to as a "Powerbook." They like Apple; Apple came out with firewire; ergo they like firewire. Nevermind that few new peripherals support firewire, and even fewer support only firwire and not USB. Nevermind that similar USB only peripherals are generally cheaper and perform as well as if not better than the equivilant firewire peripheral. Firewire lost in the market. Apple has acknowledged that. Let's move on.
-Adam
VS Acer's 8200 (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907155,00.a
2GHZ, 2GB ram, 120GB HDD, x1600M 256M, 15.4", GigE, etc. $2499
Apple:
1.83GHz, 2GB ram, 120GB HDD, x1600 256M, 15.4", GigE, etc.
$2899
The acer has a faster CPU and has a better camera
The apple is about a pound lighter, remote control, and some good apps.
Re:macbook pro page http://www.apple.com/macbookpr (Score:4, Interesting)
I think we may be looking at a return to 2hr. battery life. When you configure a new Powerbook, err, MacBook Pro, at the Apple online store, the first recommended product is the "Rechargeable Battery - 15-inch MacBook Pro - Buy an extra battery to double your battery life when traveling." Hmmm.
No more modem (Score:3, Interesting)
Next week- The AMD MacBook clone (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:I feel abused (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that long.
Clock for clock intels are as powerful as PowerPC.
Only now.
So when I bought my 1.8GHz iMac G5 it was already slower than equivalent PCs.
No, because it was faster than a 2.6 GHz P4. The Pentium 4 was a mistake (sacrificing power for clock speed on Intel's part) they've come to their senses now.
Now thats all very well and good, except that Apple were screaming that it was faster, better, stronger.
Because it was during the time that Apple was hyping it. Especially in the later days of the G4, and the early days of the G5. Apple mysteriously stopped updating any of their benchmarks before the announced switch to Intel, and even if they did update their benchmarks, it was only ever against older model Pentium 4's.
That you would be mad to even think about buying Intel, and I sucked it up. Its not even like they didn't know the truth. They've been developing Mac OS X on intel for the last 5 years, so they new they were onto a looser with PowerPC and they still over sold.
It's a hard thing to truely measure. As far as "scientific" and advanced math go, the G5 is still a better CPU, you can push much more high pressure data through it, but for the consumer the better choice is the new cores from Intel.
In all cases, every G5 beats out any Pentium 4, those things were just stupid.
Re:4X faster? (Score:2, Interesting)
"The new Intel processors are faster than the PowerPC. Therefore the old ones were faster too." -- This seems to be the common belief, but the truth is that Intel and the PowerPC folks have been leapfrogging each other for a long time. When the snail add came out, the PowerPC WAS faster than Intel. Not anymore. And the G5 will be faster again in a year or two. BFD.
Re:Never Microsoft Windows again. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the even bigger question is the reverse: can you install Apple's new OS X on your PC?
I know that they probably used the best DRM available in order to prevent this from happening, but just like all other attempts, somebody will figure it out.
Re:Never Microsoft Windows again. (Score:4, Interesting)
A neater solution would probably be a native version of VirtualPC or an equivalent, as you can then copy and paste between Windows and OS X.
Re:Battery Life? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've seen 3.5Hours for the heavier and high-end configured Acer 8200 ("6 cell battery" / 2.0GHz).
My WAG: 4hours.
Re:Gaps (and lack of) in the product line (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, in fact I do :).
Doing the iMac first makes sense. A very large number of PowerMac purchasers are wanting such a system to run Pro or scientific applications, which have yet to be made available for Intel. The PowerMacs were refreshed roughly two months ago. To sell an Intel PowerMac right now wouldn't be in Apples best interest, because the market for such a system isn't there (primarily due to the lack of software). I'm such an Intel PowerMac would run Rosetta very well, however people who buy such systems want to squeeze every Mhz of power out of them, and aren't going to want to run their Pro applications through a virtual machine. A dual or quad PPC system is still going to be better for these users.
On the laptop side, however, the iBook is intended to be a low-cost laptop. It is also ready very close to the PowerBook in terms of computational power. The PowerBooks really were in need of a refresh -- they're supposed to be Apple's top-of-the-line laptop system, but they have been getting long in the tooth.
I do find it interesting to note, however, that Apple still apparantly is selling the current PowerBook G4s. The MacBook Pro doesn't appear to be directly (or at least immediately) replacing the PowerBooks.
I imagine that of the two systems, the new MacBook Pro probably required the most R&D, thus costing more to develop. Pro users are more likely to be early adopters, and are more likely to spend larger amounts of money, so it makes sense to target them. Besides which, developers which couldn't afford to rent a transition system now have a machine they can buy to help accelerate Mac Intel software development :).
Yaz.
Re:Stupid name (Score:2, Interesting)
I assumed they wanted to get rid of the "power", since they aren't using Power PC chips anymore.
Re:Because everywhere gets cell reception, right? (Score:2, Interesting)
Getting reception in buildings can still be a problem, I admit. However, it's becoming increasingly more difficult to find a usable phone jack anywhere. Many office buildings end up having a phone system that doesn't permit easy modem access anyway.
Re:Low Resolution (Score:3, Interesting)
As for why, my 17" CRT at work was recently replaced by a 17" LCD, and while the LCD is much nicer in many ways, I really do notice the fact that I have lost a third of my screen real estate. I can no longer meaningfully use a browser and text editor side by side, I can't see nearly as much context to my code when I have 3 or more files open at the same time, and I don't have nearly as much room to work in Photoshop without all of the stupid palettes getting in my way. (Although in all honesty, I really consider the last one to be a design flaw in Photoshop's UI) In general, other than Photoshop, (which, again, I consider to be a terribly designed interface and is pretty much the only program I use fullscreen because it is useless otherwise) the smaller the resolution I have, the less things I can have in front of me at one time, and the more frustrated I get trying to dig around for whatever it was that just got hidden last time I switched windows.
Re:Gaps (and lack of) in the product line (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Gaps (and lack of) in the product line (Score:3, Interesting)
Then what's the rationale for not producing a Pentium-M or Celeron-based Mac mini ?
They're sticking to the new chips so they can use the new DRM-laden chipsets... either that's to protect the software, or to protect future content DRM... I think it's to protect the software, but I guess I could be wrong. In any event, I think they'd love to be able to sell a cheap-ass Clereon or Pentium-M -based Mac mini, but can't because they want Intel's new chipset... thus no currently available low-end Mac Intel. Maybe when single-core Yonahs are released, if they're cheap enough, or when Memron chips replace the high end... but I think it's the thought of OS X running on someone's home-built ( or Dell ) machine that has Apple stuck on Intel's newer chipset.
Mac PowerBook - PowerPPC = MacBook (Score:3, Interesting)
Mac Powerbook - PowerPC = MacBook
Doesnt' exactly roll off the tongue, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Estimations??? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:European Price? (Score:3, Interesting)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=5y&l=o
The US/Euro exchange rate has been quite stable for the past two years. Your statement, "US currency is dropping like a rock", is not correct, though it would have been reasonable in 2003.
Further, China's announcement that it will peg the value of its currency to a "basket" of foreign currencies instead of the USD alone does not mean that the Chinese are about to sell dollars in large amounts, although it's possible that they will do so and some expect it.
Lithium-polymer battery (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So the big question is... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:especially when you have kids (Score:2, Interesting)
My 3 year old daughter has stepped on my Powerbook's cable a number of times. Each time it's cleanly pulled it out of the socket... sort of an RCA type thing. It's bound to break one day, but not yet.
My wife's laptops, however, "mysteriously" have always had power cable problems.
Now I know why!
Confusion with *USB*? (Score:1, Interesting)
I mostly agree with you, but this sentence is exactly backwards.
With USB, you have two completely different cable ends: "A" and "B", to geeks. Every cable has both. Want to plug your two computers together? Get a Firewire cable, because USB can't do this directly.
With USB, the power/bandwidth mystery is truly a mystery (and I'm a USB developer!). Your PC has USB2.0! -- but not on the keyboard, where it's only USB1.1 (and 40 times slower). And 1/5th of USB's already-wimpy power there. Does anybody actually like having to use separate power bricks for all their USB devices that require more power than a keyboard? Oh, and even if you have a USB2.0 hub, it likely has only one transaction translator, so you get USB1.1 bandwidth shared among all USB1.1 devices on it, even though you've got plenty of upstream bandwidth.
It would be cool to see Firewire 800 take off, because it offers even more advantages: more flexible topologies, longer cable runs (up to 100 meters!), more cable types. Basically, the bandwidth of Firewire 800 is one of the least impressive things about it, which speaks volumes, because it's twice as fast as Firewire-400 or USB2!
Re:Low Resolution (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux is a major operating system, and both Gnome and KDE use a box model to handle layout. They also SVG for icons. Plus, Gnome knows what DPI your monitor is at, and scales accordingly.
However, you're right about OSX and Windows both being pixel-based layouts that don't scale at all.
Re:So the big question is... (Score:4, Interesting)
PowerMac == MacTop? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The MacBook Pro (Score:2, Interesting)
NB: various versions of Linux are already EFI-aware, and it is likely that these will have driver support for the new Macs fairly soon after the Linux developer community gets their hands on some. This job is made easier by the fact that there is much less variance in Mac hardware than is the case for more "generic" PCs, and the very newness of the Intel versions means that there aren't even any legacy systems to worry about, a factor that will also doubtless be a consideration for the boys in Redmond.