Apple Enters Media Center Domain

An anonymous reader writes "CNN has a story up describing Apple's new media center concept. The software takes on a classic Apple approach: simplicity. 'The program, called Front Row, lets you listen to music, watch videos, play DVDs and display photos from a distance with a few clicks of a lighter-sized, six-button remote control.'" More details available from ThinkSecret.

Or....

[daeley]

This isn't precisely a secret, however, and hasn't been for the months since it was introduced. :)

http://www.apple.com/imac/frontrow.html [apple.com]

Not a Media Center

[bookemdano63]

"Front Row doesn't display live TV"
That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?

Re:About time

[mustafap]

>One thing that bugs me is the fact that you're stuck with their display

I think the Mac Mini demonstrates a willingness to abandon single source on displays. Good thing too, IMHO

A Good Idea

[et764]

So apparently this is a dupe, but it's the first I've seen of it, so I found it interesting. I looked at the picture of the remote here [apple.com] and I think I like it. Just the other day I was looking at one of those remotes that come with digital cable boxes these days, and there were way too many buttons there. To make matters worse, almost every remote these days has just about as many buttons, but they are generally organized differently, making it harder to switch TV's. How often do people visiting a friend's house have to ask their friend to do something like change the volume, because the remote is overly complicated? I like the idea of a remote with just a couple of buttons.

Re:Not a Media Center

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

"Front Row doesn't display live TV" That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?

TVs already display live TV. The idea is that this can be a replacement for your DVD player and CD player. It lets you easily play music, movies, and TV shows and other video you buy online. I think they are hoping to basically do an end run around the cable and satellite companies. Instead of subscribing to cable, you just buy the shows you want rather than a subscription to a bunch of shows you don't want and a few you do. The main drawback is the cost per show (which seems high). The main advantage is it lets you have a permanent copy and see it whenever you want, instead of on a fixed schedule.

Re:Not a Media Center

[lakin]

Most TV's can already handle live TV ;)

not what I'd hoped

[GKevK]

I RTFA... and I'm disappointed. If this is going to depend on programs being cached on iDisk, then why do I need a new Mac Mini at all? Lots of the speculation was that the new mini might get a tv tuner card and lots more storage, to give it DVR functionality etc. How is this different from a website that just streams you video? Media center... yeah right. I'll keep my TiVos.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[NotoriousQ]

Add to that:
- Ripping CDs from the menu interface, and adding it to your collection
- Doing the same with DVDs

I am willing to bet that Apple will never accomplish the second one.

My summary of Front Row vs. Mythtv:
Front Row looks good, but has ass functionality. Mythtv has good functionality, but looks like ass.

Lighter sized remote?

[Mashdar]

Hell, I can't find a standard sized remote 1/5 of the time I want it. Does the idea of a tiny remote scare anyone else? A couch has 10^5 times the number of places for one of these bad boys to hide.

Perhaps Apple will plan ahead and assume the user will lose the remote and put a god damned set of directional arrows on the unit itself. It seems like once a month I encounter a remoteless DVD player with no means of navigation on the main unit. When the first option on the DVD menu is not play it turns into a hell of a time.

Xbox

[Nightspirit]

For a "media center", my modded xbox with xbox media center (the open source software, not the MS one) does all this and more, and cost significantly less than a mac mini.

Re:Xbox

[jeffy210]

There is a *big* problem with having an Xbox for a media center... it's puny processor can't handle WMV-HD (or Divx-HD for that matter). yes it has component out and can output a 720p or 1080i stream but it chokes hard on a 700Mhz processor. That's the biggest reason I never considered it. Now the 360 on the other hand... (Also, I want a DVI out instead of just component)

Re:The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sega have already been bought up by Sammy. Sega now have a very solid parent company, and without the failed hardware to support, their games are very profitable. Apple probably couldn't buy them if they wanted to.

Re:Xbox

[kollivier]

Apple's target audience isn't a group of people who like modding their computer/console hardware. They're selling to people who don't particularly want to mod their stuff, or pay to have it modded.

Besides, the real value of Apple's solution isn't Front Row itself; the value in Apple's solution lies in their downloadable content. If they can offer affordable movies and TV programs, a new Mac mini would pay for itself in 1-2 years when I can buy the shows I want to watch ala carte rather than paying for cable. I'd be using the computer too, of course, so it would more than pay for itself. The sucky part about TiVo, the XBox MC, MythTV, etc. is that they require setup time and/or subscription fees to work, so unless you watch a LOT of TV (or enjoy the challenge) the boxes just aren't worth the money and/or effort involved. If Apple can bring a buy-as-you-go solution that anyone can use and bundle it with an affordable computer to boot, they'll bring the media center concept to a whole new market of casual buyers/watchers.

Re:What a yawn-fest

[NoMaster]

Rightly or wrongly, the computer world has been drooling for the convergence of the PC and the loungeroom. So far, that's been a pipe dream - really, it seems the majority of people just don't feel the need for a PC that links into their entertainment systems like that. Which is why stand-alone devices, up to and including TiVo, have worked - while other things, like WinXP MCE, have pretty much been duds.

Given Apple's track record, their understanding of markets, and their ability to package a whole product which does what it claims to in a simple, useful, and aesthetically pleasing way, this would have a better chance than most previous attempts at being _the_ breakthough device they've been looking for.

What you denigrate as "cute packaging" - nice box, nice interface, etc - is essentially the only thing the people pushing for this kind of convergence have to offer.

Which is not to say I agree - despite having a PC permanently in the lounge room, hooked up up to my TV & digital PVR, I really can't see the point. The "converged PC" is a solution to a problem that exists only in the minds of marketers and the wet dreams of futurists - not in the minds of the market itself.

Re:Not a Media Center

[thatguywhoiam]

TVs already display live TV. The idea is that this can be a replacement for your DVD player and CD player. It lets you easily play music, movies, and TV shows and other video you buy online. I think they are hoping to basically do an end run around the cable and satellite companies. Instead of subscribing to cable, you just buy the shows you want rather than a subscription to a bunch of shows you don't want and a few you do. The main drawback is the cost per show (which seems high). The main advantage is it lets you have a permanent copy and see it whenever you want, instead of on a fixed schedule.

I think you've hit it on the head. Front Row is going to be a really big deal.

And a big reason I think this is because of Steve Jobs - let's recap what we know about him, aside from his famous temper:

- does NOT agree that television and computers will have 'convergence' in the way it is usually described; he thinks more of a co-habitation if you will, with the computer as the ultimate master to all other media slave devices
- HATES the entrenched media companies (Yes. See: Disney negotiations, major music label negotiations)
- wants control over the entire user experience
- is infamous for finding 'end-run' solutions as you put it to sticky delivery problems (or more recently, bailing/sabotaging if it doesn't work, see: ugly dysfunctional iTunes-capable Motorola phone)

And its been so obvious for old Apple watchers like myself, the pieces have been marshaling for a long time. Right back to the ratification of the QuickTime container for the MPEG-4 spec at NAB, moving through the entire evolution of iTunes and the iTMS. They've got the hardware that everyone thinks is cool; they've got the premiere online model for selling digital content (not even a web page! in their own 'browser', iTunes!); they've got an ancient, highly respected and super-capable media container format; they've got a Disney-level brand. Only thing I think they are missing right now are the video-capable Airport Express and some (admittedly tricky) content deals.

They could totally kick ass with this thing if they execute well, but its a very weird situation, since the main competition for Living Room Celestial Jukebox are game consoles from Microsoft and Sony. Those are game machines, and Front Row is not, but all these projects have the LRCJ as a major design goal.

Re:Not a Media Center

[Reaperducer]

I found a far more more elegant solution.

Cool. You have my attention. My "media" Mac is a G4 dual 867 MDD (wind tunnel) with 3 200gb drives and 2 more external 200gb firewire drives. It lives in the library (with my main work Mac: a Dual 1.8 G5. In the living room near the television, sharing space with the VCR, DVD, Laserdisc, and (since I am old old school) Betamax machines is a little silver box called an EyeHome

This magic thing is connected to a router (though it also works on a Airport Extreme or other wireless solution) and via Ethernet pumps avi mp4 and other formatted files to my television. It also handles digital optical sound and mp3s. My stereo system can rock to Weird Al or my collection of Dr Demento shows... Pictures can also be displayed and if you are all thumbs, Web surfing is available. It works with 10.3.9 and above (10.2.8 if you are creative) and oh yes, it works from a remote.

Still waiting for the "elegant" part.

Re:Or....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been proclaiming for weeks that the big announcement the day the iPod with video came out was not the iPod but was that Apple is going to start doing media center stuff.

Actually, I thought it was when they sold me a computer with a bigger screen than my TV. Or it was when they launched AirPort Express. Or when they were hyping HD in QuickTime 7. Or when they started the iTunes Music Store. Or when they started selling iPods. Or when they became the most popular movie trailer site on the web. Or...

It's been "obvious" in one way or another for a long time. The question is always "when" or "how", never "if".