New iBook and Apple mini 480
shintaro writes "ThinkSecret reports that 'Apple delivers iBook, Mac mini updates July 26 - Apple updated its iBook and Mac mini lines Tuesday, increasing standard RAM across the board to 512MB and improving other specs. Missing from the iBook update was the long-rumored move to a widescreen model which unconfirmed reports had suggested might arrive with the revision.' "
Why link to ThinkSecret? (Score:5, Informative)
That's nice, but why link to ThinkSecret when Apple's iBook page has much more detailed information [apple.com]?
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:5, Informative)
Why can't they just bump it up to 64MB so that it can support all the nice graphical effects of the dashboard?!?
How much could it possibly cost to do this paltry upgrade?
Re:32Megs Video RAM? 1024 Res? (Score:5, Informative)
1024x768 screens (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft's font smoothing works only in the horizontal dimension and makes even small text look smooth and pleasing to the eye. Apple, on the other hand, tries to smooth things both vertically and horizontally. This looks fantastic at really big sizes, but at a normal size such as 12 point, horizontal bars (such as in "H" and "E" become gray and cause eyestrain.
I love Macs and hate to see Gates trumping them in something. But a higher-resolution, or better-smoothed, portable (iBook/PowerBook)screen would do wonders for readability.
Re:Why link to ThinkSecret? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html [apple.com]
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html [apple.com]
Don't you love Apple URLs? Even if you don't have a link to click, you can guess at most of them!
Re:Who's going to buy it ? (Score:2, Informative)
What are you talking about? 5 years before Intel gets a foothold? Within a year *most* new Macs will be Intel based. Most folks upgrade every 3 years; so within 3 years you will see mostly Intel Macs.
I am not even sure what "8 years for a $399 computer is a great buy." even means. There aren't any $399 Macs that I know of.
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why do they do that? (Score:5, Informative)
I'll agree that the systems should simply include 64MB of RAM, but I also expected more of the writers at a mac-centric site such as thinksecret.
Re:Why do they do that? (Score:4, Informative)
The 32MB VRAM shouldn't be an issue - it might slow it down a bit, but that's all.
Re:Who's going to buy it ? (Score:2, Informative)
OS X had the classic environment, which you can still use in 10.4. Also OS X installs on just about any Mac sold in the last 5 years or so.
Maybe you consider only supporting people for 8 years after they bought their computer leaving them out in the cold, but I don't.
Re:I finally figured out what market the Mini is f (Score:0, Informative)
In English, the plural form of box is "boxes," you sad, sad man.
Re:Radeon 9550 vs. 9200 (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Apple mini? (Score:3, Informative)
Apple no longer makes a single CPU Power Mac. And, all Power Macs have 512MB standard [apple.com].
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:3, Informative)
I agree, though, that they should have included at least a GeForce FX Go 5200 and that the Radeon 9200 is underpowered. All in all, though, the mini is still a good deal.
Here's a list of Mac compatible cards that can handle Core Image:
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
ATI Radeon 9600, 9600 XT, 9650, 9800 XT, X800 XT
nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200
nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:2, Informative)
Don't let the mini's gfx card scare you off. There aren't that many mac games and the 9200 does a fine job on stuff like Expose (and the dashboard ripple effect isn't that cool).
The only thing wrong with the mini (that I can tell) is that the VGA output isn't at proper voltages and the color quality suffers a little. If you have the mini hooked up to a DVI monitor the color should be just fine.
Re:Who's going to buy it ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Who's going to buy it ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:4, Informative)
The mini supports 1920x1200 displays, both vga and dvi. Your Dell 20" is 1680x1050 pixels. Other people are already using the dell 20" with the mini.
Finally, extra RAM won't make a difference for video because, unlike many low end PCs, the mini doesn't steal ram to do video. It has real vram (though only 32mb)
Re:MPC7448? (Score:2, Informative)
If I remember properly this chip was first introduced in October... 2003... rounding nicely two years for Freescale to port the design from 130nm to 90nm. Apple has had to live with the same CPU for over two years (minis, powerbooks, ibooks, emacs... a large bit of its product line!!)
And people still wonder why Apple is switching to Intel.
Still missing digital audio out (Score:3, Informative)
Having said that, close inspection of the new machines reveals that they don't seem to have changed the main board at all; it's the same processors and same video RAM as before. Still, it would be very nice if they would add the digital audio some day.
Re:Video card still underwhelming (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong -- cheap Dells (like the one linked) don't have an AGP slot. So you're stuck with the piss poor integrated graphics forever.
The Radeon 9200 was actually a big selling point for me. I know it's pretty slow compared to a lot of cards out there, but it sure as hell beats what you get on comparably priced branded PCs.
Re:Uh, say what? (Score:3, Informative)
The 9550 is a full-fledged programmable GPU, compatible with CoreImage when you go by its specification.
It IS possible that Apple could be assholes and disable GPU-accelerated CoreImage features for this card, but I see no reason for them to do so.
Re:512 Mb RAM (Score:2, Informative)
Remember, notebooks are about more than speed (Score:5, Informative)
Realistically, the iBook is not a hardcore gaming machine. You're not going to find many PCs in the same price range that can play DOOM 3 with all the bells and whistles turned on either. And I'd argue that this is okay. High-end 3D games like this are a niche.
In terms of CoreImage, I think many people don't understand what it is. It is not QuartzExtreme. All 2D graphics are going through OpenGL on the iBook, so things will be snappy and take advantage of the GPU. CoreImage is about what are essentially Photoshop filters and special effects, not fundamental rendering. And being a fairly new OS X technology, it's not clear how much CoreImage is actually being used right now, or if it will come into its own in the future.
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Radeon 9550 vs. 9200 (Score:3, Informative)
Almost certainly. I tend to think of the Radeon 9200 as comparable to the GeForce FX 5200, although the latter does support Core Image.
The first Google hit for ati 9550 is a DriverHeaven review [driverheaven.net], which someone mentioned on one of the rumor site forums. It shows the 9550 soundly beating the 5200 in every benchmark.
The 9550 continues Apple's tradition of shipping bottom-of-the-barrel video cards, but at least the iBook has a dedicated 3D card, unlike some value notebooks.
Re:Video card still underwhelming (Score:3, Informative)
Not the newest "comparably priced branded PCs" like the HP Pavilion a1010y [hp.com] and the Compaq Presario SR1010Z [hp.com]. They use the same integrated graphics (Intel GMA 900 [intel.com]) that's working so well in Apple's Intel developer Macs [slashdot.org]. Quartz seems to work very well sharing system and video memory through PCI Express.
Re:Mac Mini + (Score:3, Informative)
Here, Bluetooth up until just, really, a few months ago, was just for headsets. Sure, some laptops came with it, but they wouldn't even sync up with your phones in many cases. Not to mention that it has been more expensive in the US for longer.
In talking with my EU buddies, the whole wireless thing caught on there quickly and held firm, bringing prices down a lot faster. Wireless routers are still $70 around here unless you happen to find a rebate.
Those wifi 802.11g dongles are just now in the $20 price range. 8 months ago, they were all over $40. My girlfriend settled on an 802.11b dongle because it was $25. Now the 802.11g ones are cheaper. So yes, prices were higher for longer in the US, and are now starting to come in line more with what you find in the EU.
One of the few times where you europeans actually got cheaper prices before us on computer tech ;D
Re:1.25 Mini -- Hidden cheapest Superdrive system (Score:3, Informative)
The reason Apple did this is for their retail stores. When most consumers walk in to buy a computer, they want it right now, not 4-6 weeks later after it's been built to order in China and shipped to them. Having a low-end consumer model with a DVD burner in it is a necessity if they want to target the consumer. Remember, most people buying a mini are probably buying one for the first time, and are not the type of people to spend more than 1 minute thinking about the configuration and pricing/building it online. They just know that they want a computer that they can edit their home movies on.
Re:Radeon 9550 vs. 9200 (Score:3, Informative)
The Radeon 9200 (OpenGL 1.3, DirectX 8.1) is actually an updated Radeon 8500 [endian.net] and is comparable to the GeForce 3. ATI just re-used their previous generation's high end technology into their low end product. The GeForce FX 5200 (OpenGL 1.4, DirectX 9) is comparable (in features) to the Radeon 9550, but slower.
although the latter does support Core Image.
Core Image [apple.com] seems to require an OpenGL 1.4 GPU, which is probably why it requires a GeForce FX 5200 or Radeon 9600 minimum. Even though the 9550 is not listed among the supported GPUs, I think it should work since it's just a slower version of the 9600.
Re:Sweet Spot (Score:3, Informative)
Except with the Mini upgrade, you're only upgrading the optical drive (for $100). With the Powerbook upgrade, you're also adding 20 more gig of HD space (for $200). Still not a good price:value ratio, but not as bad as you were making out.
For reference, you pay $150 on a 12" Combo-drive machine to go from 60GB to 100GB, so on the Super-drive model you probably are just paying $100 for the super-drive, and $100 for the hard drive.
Though to me, $100 for 20GB of hard drive space is the very definition of diminishing returns. Bleh.