Dutch Pass iPod Tax 873
An anonymous reader writes "The Register is reporting that in a few short months a proposal to tax all MP3 players in the Netherlands will become law. The levy taxes 3.28 euros ($4.30 US) for every gigabyte of capacity. This means a 60GB iPod Photo will be hit for an additional 196 euros ($258), all of it going to the record industry's copyright collection agencies. And they call file sharers thieves?"
Hm (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Le Grand Workaround (Score:2, Informative)
Headline is wildly inaccurate (Score:5, Informative)
However, similar regulations already exist for blank CD-ROMs, tapes, and photocopiers, because it is assumed that these are (partly) used for the copying of copyrighted material.
Such copying is legally allowed, the levy exists as a compensation for the copyright holders.
I think it is possible that a levy on MP3 players will come into existence but at much lower sums than now proposed.
Re:Levy *and* copyright infringement (Score:5, Informative)
I wouldn't be surprised if the situation were the same in Denmark.
Guys, guys...! (Score:2, Informative)
Seriously guys, don't expect this to really happen, it's impossible
For more info (in dutch), this is a letter
Re:wow. (Score:2, Informative)
a) Picking one up over the border and taking it back is legal.
b) European law means they can't even do you for the levy as you come home again.
c) Applecare is applicable worldwide on iPods without having to return it to the country you bought it in.
Therefore, the Dutch Government are screwed if they try this, as everyone will just import.
Some more info on this (I'm Dutch) (Score:5, Informative)
For now it is a prooposal only, but the current Dutch government is pretty good in 'silently' upgrading such things to law.....
In fact, the proposal is even worse than mentioned in the article.
The tax is not only intended for iPods/MP3 players, but for ANY device capable of storing copyrighted content for later playback.
That includes, computers, HD and DVD video recorders, even spare HD's, SD and Comapct Flash memory, etc.
All major computer manufacturers have already written letters to the Dutch prime-minister stating, that if this insanity becomes law, they will be forced to withdraw from the Dutch market.
Several members of the Dutch parliament (at least from the opposition parties) have spoken out their concern's about this too.
So far the government has made no attempt to actually get this "law" throught the legislation process.
I just hope they never will get around to it.
Current Dutch political climate is such that no Parliament member will vote against party policy. The parties of the ruling coalition will never vote against the government so any proposal is bound to be accepted.
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:story seems dubious (Score:5, Informative)
WOERDEN (city in NL) - Big IT companies such as Apple, Sony and Philips took action in the Netherlands against the plans to add a copying levy for mp3 players. Within two months such a levy is to be expected, so said B. Taselaar of ICT Office, the industry organisation that represents the companies.
At the moment there is a proposal for a levy of EUR 3,28 per Gigabyte of data storage. This proposal has been made by 'Stichting Thuiskopie' according to ICT Office, which is responsible for the collecting and distributing of payments to copyright holders for the copying of blank audio carriers.
An iPod music player from Apple with 40 Gigabyte of data storage would increase in price with EUR 131. This is unacceptable, according to ICT Office, also because introduction into multiple European countries looms on the horizon. The industry organisation thinks that IT companies will in the future choose to introduce new products first in the United States and Asia. New developments will pass by Europe, with all consequences for the Netherlands electronics sector.
(c) ANP
Lest we forget... (Score:2, Informative)
Thank god for the EU (Score:3, Informative)
I paid my tax in austria and came away with a saving of somewhere in the 3000-4000 EUR (4000+ US$).
Since we can trade goods without problems and import tax, you can buy something for the price including tax in germany and ship it to the netherlands.
Friends of mine do that with blank CD's and DVD's thru ebay all the time. We also have a lot of tax on those, but when you already paid your tax in germany, you don't have to do so in Austria again.
It all just boils down to knowing what to buy where and how.
Course, Apple will loose a bit of sales in the Netherlands, but maybe that will leave us with "upgradeable" ipods with exchangable HD's? Sometimes even big cooperations get creative, if they fear they will sell less.
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:5, Informative)
The ridiculous height of the tax is untrue (Score:5, Informative)
To quote from the link: "Het bestuur van de SONT heeft nog geen besluit genomen over de hoogte van het tarief; de onderhandelingen zijn gaande. Berichten die suggereren dat er al enige duidelijkheid is over de hoogte van een tarief zijn onjuist.", which translates as, "The management of the SONT has not decided yet on the height of the tax; that is still being negotiated. Any statements that suggest that there is any clarity on the height of the tax are false." This message is from April 2005.
The tax on blank DVDs is something like a couple of cents. I suspect that the tax on storage space in MP3-players will probably not be much higher.
Re:The register must know something we dont... (Score:4, Informative)
But you can fit more bits on a platter if they Get Perpendicular! [hitachigst.com]
"Hey! Check me out! I'm dancing! I'm dancing!"
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:2, Informative)
Oh, and it's either The Netherlands (English) or Nederland (Dutch).
Re:story seems dubious (Score:3, Informative)
3.28 is not true (Score:5, Informative)
Re:wow. (Score:2, Informative)
If people go buy their stuff across the border to save some euro's, imagine what they will do to save several tens or hundreds of euros...
Since we have a computerstore at home, at 30 kilometers from the border with the netherlands, I will not complain if they push this tax through. Gotta order some more ipods now though, have to go...
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:5, Informative)
"Dutch".
Re:Some more info on this (I'm Dutch) (Score:5, Informative)
First there was such a levy on compact cassettes and video tapes. In those days it could probably be claimed that most carriers were used to hold material for which rights had not been paid (although it remains a point of discussion whether you are allowed to record something from radio or tv transmissions for which you have presumably paid rights to listen or view).
But then it extended to carriers that are not only for music, like CD-R and DVD-R. Entire user groups use these for completely different purposes than are the goal of the levy, still they have to pay.
In the meantime you now also have to pay a levy on photocopiers. Every company in the Netherlands that owns a photocopier has to pay because some nitwit believes that photocopiers are used to copy books.
We have many photocopiers where I work but I never see someone with a book. But piles and piles of internal documents are fed through the sheetfeeders and copied 20 times. The company pays a levy on each copy that would probably go to some novel author who never did anything to earn this money.
A levy on MP3 players is only the next step.
Destroying their high-street shops (Score:5, Informative)
I think this is kind of academic as goods are allowed to be freely distributed for personal use within the EC, and anyone in Holland who wants an ipod will just buy it mail-order from the UK or somewhere without the tax.
Exactly the same thing has happened with the iTrip - it is illegal to sell or use here in the UK but so many have been imported, that they are turning a blind eye to the selling now.
It's a bit like trying to tax the super wealthy - if you try to do it too much, they just move somewhere else, and you end up with no money.
I am sure that the shop sellers of ipods will just arrange to have them delivered from another country, but will lose out big time to the intenet and mail-order sales. If they want to destroy their high-street shops, who are we to stop them?
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:258$ "stealing" tax?!? (Score:3, Informative)
The fact that many people may use illegally copied music on their iPod is utterly irrelevant. My MP3 player is populated with songs ripped from my own CD collection - if I were to buy a new player this would still be the case. Why should I pay what amounts to a fine for a criminal act that I haven't committed?
Assumption of innocence is the founding principle of the legal system in all vaguely civilised countries. This tax (and other like it) are based on an assumption of guilt. For this reason alone they should appal anyone who has even the slightest respect for an individual's liberty.
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:4, Informative)
Carrier Tax (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The ridiculous height of the tax is untrue (Score:2, Informative)
Trying to be devil's advocate: "we currently charge up to 1 for 5 Gbyte on DVD's, but they are not re-used with new music all the time, so we should charge higher for MP3 players. Let say we charge five times as much (we are the devil right?) so in that case we charge 1 per GB, this amounts to an extra tax of 60 for an iPod player. Now what we need to do is pick a price as high as possible, but that is low enough to not outrage the general public."
I am Dutch (have been for 45 years now), and I predict this law *will* make it. Germany, Denmark already have similar taxes on media.
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
The United States did, and still does, have a tax on blank audio cassettes, with the proceeds of the tax going to the record industry. In pushing the tax bill through Congress, the record industry said that the tax was to make sure the artists got money for their work. However, little of the tax actually went to the artists, most went to the record labels and publishing companies.
Re:An idea.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)
OMG! Phulshof is absolutely right. According to the site he linked to the Netherlands has a Author/Copyright Law 1912 in which article 16b states that you can indeed *legally* make copies of someone elses CD/DVD collection, as long as you have paid the tax on the CDR/DVDR you use!!! The only exception is computer software, where you do need to be the owner to legitimately make a copy for your own use.
To make it even worse.. it's also legal if you didn't pay the tax on the DVD/CD because you bought it in Luxemburg or bought it from a shop who bought those in Luxemburg.
Because you paid the levy of 0% on DVD- and CD recordables in Luxemburg.
God, I love this free market in the EU thingy.
This is fascism, by definition (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, fascism is easier in socialist nations, when you have a large, powerful, well-funded-by-already-high-taxes government to implement such fascist policy... A more-limited, smaller government is easier to watch over and thus, easier to prevent from doing such things...
Are you *SURE* about that? (Score:4, Informative)
How much you wanna bet? [cornell.edu]
This may come as a shock to you, but not only are you wrong, but the US was one of the first countries to introduce something like this.
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:1, Informative)
Now, you are required to carry ID, and cops can ask you for ID at any time. If you dont have it, you go to jail until you can be indentified. "preventive" searching is next.
You know, them thar terrorists and stuff...
Oh and the Netherlands has the highest amount of phone taps in the world, so many that the justice department 'lost count' when asked by parliament.
Re:Le Grand Workaround (Score:2, Informative)
But external HDs are certainly included (how would an EU politician be able to distinguish between tiny USB 5GB HD and a 256mb USB Memory stick.
If the 5GB HD USB HD is included then this would also be included, as it's external.
http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/ind ex.php?product_id=LCE300944E&src=FRO1 [insight.com]
I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not gonna be seeing many data backup companies based in the Netherlands.
Re:iTrip UK legality (Score:2, Informative)
My Dad has one for his iPod and plays 60/70s tunes on it. He is the criminal!11one
Re:Just a proposal, hopefully... (Score:3, Informative)