Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Desktops (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

Forbes Predicts 5% Desktop Share for Apple in 2005 1045

sebFlyte writes "Spurred on by the iPod, Apple's share of the desktop computer market will grow to five percent (from three percent) this year, according to research from Morgan Stanley. Apparrently nearly 20% of iPod users surveyed are planning to switch to Macs, and the sales figures for the last few quarters are backing up the theory of the iPod Halo Effect. All this suggests the question ... how many iPod-touting Slashdotters are thinking of switching?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Forbes Predicts 5% Desktop Share for Apple in 2005

Comments Filter:
  • Re:Stock (Score:5, Informative)

    by ravenspear ( 756059 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:51PM (#12004441)
    Uh, No. The time to buy Apple stock was last year before it went up over 500%.
  • by theNetImp ( 190602 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:53PM (#12004479)
    There are plenty of games, as I switched to a Mac, and have no problem getting the games I want, they may be a couple months behind the windows version but big-woop-dee-butt-$$%&%$ (tm) I can wait a couple months, if it means no windows email worms corrupting my system.
  • Re:Why not (Score:2, Informative)

    by larley ( 736136 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:56PM (#12004514)
    No. OS X is closed-source but it has an open-source BSD kernel. It is a unix-based OS but it has much more to it than Linux, which is only the kernel -- In a way, you could think of it as a BSD distribution, but there's a lot more to it than that.
  • As soon as that 20% realizes there's no games for that shiny Mac in the store window, they'll stay right where they are.
    While it is true that most mass retailers don't have Mac games in stock, there are plenty of the latest hot game titles available for purchase online. And once more people move to Apple, the retailers will start clearing some shelf space for Mac software.

    And besides, games are a good excuse to have at least two computers: one on which to get work done (Linux or Mac), and one on which to play games (Windows). That being said, there are an awful lot of games you can get for Macs or play the windows version on Linux via Cedega. (I've done a bit of both)
  • by lagnat ( 704257 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:57PM (#12004537)
    I can't quote percentages, but a "large" portion of MacOS X is available in source form from Apple [apple.com]. So it's not as open as Linux, but it's far from Windows when it comes to proprietary.
  • by Joe Decker ( 3806 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:57PM (#12004545) Homepage
    Looked into switching a bit more than a year ago for my last laptop purchase. For a best-monitor, 2GB RAM, 60 or 80GB disk configuration with as-comparable-as-possible other details, the Powerbook was $1100, or over a third again as expensive as the comparable Dell, and the Dell had, in some ways, a nicer display, higher-resolution although physically smaller. If it had been a few hundred, and I hadn't had to lose resolution, I might have gone through with it, but for me, last year, the Apple Premium was too high.
  • by bonch ( 38532 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:58PM (#12004552)
  • by MrBandersnatch ( 544818 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:58PM (#12004557)
    http://www.simplygames.com/mac.asp

    Im being given a mac myself (for web testing) and I was under the same impression until I saw the selection. WoW on a mac-mini? Going to have that thing plugged into my TV :)
  • by th4tGuy() ( 699021 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:58PM (#12004562)
    Unfortunately we're late to that party. The time to get in was almost exactly a year ago -when AAPL [yahoo.com] was trading for $16 a share. The subsequent rise to ~$90, and split, has taken a bit of the potential out of the stock...

    But who knows, it could still go up with increased market share (The holly grail for Apple folks).
  • Big-S Switchers (Score:3, Informative)

    by dduck ( 10970 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:58PM (#12004568) Homepage
    I did. Started with an iPod 20GB. Then got the GF a nice 12" Powerbook. Then got her a 40GBiPod. Then got myself a Power Mac.

    Now I've started porting my commercail applications to OS-X.

    I guess the ole' Reality Distortion Field really DOES work, eh? :D

  • 2 in our household (Score:2, Informative)

    by jabella ( 91754 ) * on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:00PM (#12004597) Journal
    We've got two switchers in our household. One was pre-ipod, one was post ipod.

    Coming from a primarily Unix background, the switch for me was the appeal of nice hardware with the ability to get to all of my command line stuff while still having the slickness factor. I built white-box PC's for years, and was definitely 'anti-mac' for a long time. Using my g/f's powerbook was what got me to switch... "Hey look, you can use vi on it!"

    On my g/f's side, the primary drive was being able to do what she does easier (desktop publishing, email, web, im,) and without as much worry about spyware, ads, etc.

    We're now a 2 mac, 2 ipod household.
  • by drakethegreat ( 832715 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:00PM (#12004600) Homepage
    A few years ago everyone told me not to touch a mac. Then in 2004 I got a 20 GB ipod and realized the potential. I can listen to almost all my music in the car using an aux input on my deck and I can portably listen to music on my way to class or anywhere I feel like. I even sometimes carry around an RCA cable and jack to RCA convertor so I can use it on most people's stereos. At the time I still had a thinkpad which was running linux (I was switching distros often) and I was not satsified. Don't get me wrong, I love linux but I realized that until the wireless drivers are improved, its not a great laptop distribution (I had a discussion about this with one of the PHLAK developers who was also irritated about this situation). So what did I do? I bought a Powerbook G4. OH NO some people are thinking. Its memory is lower quality and its processor isn't 3 Ghz. Yet ultimately the processor is powerful enough to do everything that a laptop should do and the software is seemless. I can compile most programs I want from linux and it accomplishes my needs with perfect wireless support and allows me to still have an easy setup to use gcc during my Computer Science classes. It beats Windows and if you ever have doubts just run a PowerPC distro on it. Yet I think some people will be impressed with how far MacOS has gone in the last few years.
  • I already switched (Score:2, Informative)

    by UMhydrogen ( 761047 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:01PM (#12004627) Homepage
    I must say that when I bought my iPod several years ago I had no intention of switching to the Mac OS. But as I've now gone through 3 different iPods and each time I love the apple products more and more, I started wondering if maybe a Mac computer would be a good idea too. I work at the computer lab at school (we have about 200 macs and 300 pcs) and I spent a week playing on the Macs. I was extremely impressed. In November I bought myself a G4 Powerbook and I've loved it ever since.

    The iPod represents exactly what Apple is: an innovator. They release produts that innovate the market. The iPod and the iPod music store have revolutionized mp3 audio. While there were products before the iPod it was Apple's ingeniuos design that innovated the mp3 player boom. And thanks to the iPod music store we might soon see even cheaper than 99cent mp3s for download (see the slashdot article on 5 cent music).

    The Mac OS is similar to the iPod. If you play around with it you will wonder why Windows hasn't picked up on some of the things. Expose, for example, will re-arrange the windows open or in a certain application so you can easily choose which one you want. Buttons such as "OK" and "Cancel" are all placed in the same exact spots (OK on the right, cancel on the left) in every application. Mac OS encourages their developers to stick to standards and for the most part, they do (ex: not having a 2 button mouse prevents developers from loading things into the right click menu, which many novice users do not know about). The design of the Powerbook alone blows my mind. For $1,000 cheaper than the PC counterpart I have a top of the line processor with a gorgeous screen, a large hard drive and plenty of RAM. But it doesn't stop there - the Powerbook has a light sensor that knows when to light up my keyboard (if it's too hard to see the letters on the keys) or turn it off if it gets light enough. I won't list all the wonderful features, you can go search google for that.

    Conclusion: When I switched to Mac OS I was reluctant to give up on my PC. Now I find myself reluctant to use my PC even for the simplest of tasks.

  • Because they are not (Score:5, Informative)

    by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:02PM (#12004631) Journal

    Apple has a partical closed/partial open. Their foundation is actually opened based on BSD API. From there, they added in their old stuff with enhancements.

    In addition, Apple does not typically use their system to try and lock out competitors. The IPOD is new behavior for them. Hopefully, they will consider how to approach things. The reason why OSS software is popping up around ipod is because Apple has not ported to Linux/BSD. Once they do (even closed), I suspect that we will see a lot fewer attempts to circumvent them.

    OTH, MS uses their OS and Office as a way of controlling the end user WRT everything. If it was not for OSS, I have no doubt that MS would have been far worse than they are today.

  • Re:OSX for x86 (Score:3, Informative)

    by DavidLeblond ( 267211 ) <meNO@SPAMdavidleblond.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:02PM (#12004633) Homepage
    So how is that going to get more Macs into more homes? Apple wants to sell more Macs, not more copies of OSX.
  • by bonch ( 38532 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:02PM (#12004638)
    No games, huh?

    Quake 3
    Doom 3
    Black & White
    The Sims
    The Sims 2
    SimCity 4
    All the Myst games
    All the Warcraft games
    All the Diablo games
    RTCW
    All the Unreal Tournaments

    I could go on and on here. Not to mention, I use emulators anyway, so there are all those games too.
  • I tried one (Score:2, Informative)

    by MattW ( 97290 ) <matt@ender.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:02PM (#12004649) Homepage
    I wanted iTMS before it was available on Windows, and I also wanted a lightweight laptop. So I bought an iBook. While I've been quite happy with iTMS and my iPod, the iBook was a horrendous piece of crap that broke *constantly*. I had to RMA it twice in the warranty period - once for memory, and again for the screen. Less than a month after the warranty expired, the screen died *again*. Goodbye, iBook.

    By comparison, I had already bought a Dell Inspiron 8100 - *refurbed*. And it has lasted over 3 years and the only thing I ever RMA'd on it was the battery, and it has gotten a lot more travel and abuse than the iBook ever did.

    On the upside, the RMA process for the iBook was certainly simple. I felt like, as a warranty caller, I was a second-class citizen calling their support people, but I'm sure lots of people with software problems probably would be leeching free support if they didn't do it how they do. But once we got through the process, the RMA was relatively fast and simple.

    So yes, I was the first wave of halo buyers.. I bought a mac to GET iTunes. And I'm thankful it's available on Windows now so I can keep using it, because it wasn't worth the headache of dealing with the iBook's issues.
  • by b1t r0t ( 216468 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:06PM (#12004708)
    Just be sure to either get it with 512M as a build-to-order option or have a plan to add your own 512M or 1G PC2700 stick when you get it. Your mom or grandma might be able to live with 256M, but if you're like most slashdotters, you really need the 512M minimum.
  • by Azrel666 ( 842460 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:07PM (#12004726)
    I'de buy Apple kit, but I find it hard to justify the cost. I run Gentoo Linux on a Sony P3 1GHz laptop, I enjoy Linux 2.6.11, so I'm really just eye'in up OSX's pretty user interface. Apples hardware is nice, and certainly more powerful than what I have, but they blatently use price descrimination techniques in the UK online store, making it even worse on my bank account. :-( (waits for Tony's online bill to prevent firms like apple price descriminating in such a manner)
  • by mbrewthx ( 693182 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:14PM (#12004841)
    I have 3 machines that I use, a PC with WIN XP, a PC with LINUX SUSE 9.1, and a laptop running FC3. And will be adding a MACmini. I've been a MAC user since day 1 back in 1984. Just gave my Imac to my brother in anticipation of getting a Mac mini.
    So why can't you have all 3. or am I a heritic????
  • by geekee ( 591277 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:21PM (#12004928)
    "In addition, Apple does not typically use their system to try and lock out competitors."

    Huh?!? Tell that to the former clone makers who no longer are able to make mac clones. Their behavior with regard to iPod is standard operating procedure for Apple. If they weren't trying to lock out competition, why is there not an z86 port of MacOS?
  • Re:Why this is big (Score:5, Informative)

    by Frohboy ( 78614 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:24PM (#12004963)
    Actually, Microsoft does produce some pretty fantastic research.

    http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/defaul t.aspx/ [microsoft.com]

    (I believe that list may only include the papers which Microsoft has copyright to freely distribute, as opposed to papers in refereed journals, of which Microsoft employees have many.)

    They may be the "evil empire", but they do have a lot of smart people working for them.
  • Re:I'll switch (Score:3, Informative)

    by jrockway ( 229604 ) * <jon-nospam@jrock.us> on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:27PM (#12005009) Homepage Journal
    Which is why I downloaded the GNU fileutils (etc) and compiled them for my mac. I agree that BSD utils suck.
  • by EulerX07 ( 314098 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:34PM (#12005091)
    Parent fails to include release dates of the game. This relevant because I was reading Blue's News [bluesnews.com] and Aspyr announced TODAY that Doom 3 had been released.

    It was out on pc when? Last august? Same for the other games, they are older and were released on mac a few months (at the very least) after the pc version. Take a look at the top 10 upcoming games for pc at gamespot [gamespot.com], and tell how many of those will be available for macs. 2 out of 10? 3 out of 10? Even 5 out of 10 wouldn't be enough.

    Not good enough for even a mild cored gamer. And for the record, I wish 10/10 of these games were playable on linux, so I wouldn't have to send one cent to either MS or apple to play the games I want.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:39PM (#12005159)
    YMMV but I prefer 'Conversation' to mIRC anyway.

    http://homepage.mac.com/philrobin/conversation/
  • by stumpyrider ( 762706 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:42PM (#12005214)
    I got an iMac G5 20" last month and I am absolutely loving it. I do my coding at work, I want to turn on my computer, surf, do a little photo and music work at home. The iMac is great for that. And my wife hated our pc, she loves the mac. I used linux for a while but I got tired of having to spend hours recompiling software for smoother fonts etc. I'm getting old and tired of hacking at my computer, I want to turn it on, compute and thats it. If I want to game, I have my PS2. I loved the iMac and iTunes so much I just got an iPod shuffle. Great, simple piece of equipment. The wife wants one too. I guess the word is simplicity, with power still available. I'm not going back...
  • by oscarmv ( 603165 ) <oscarmv@maCOFFEEc.com minus caffeine> on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:46PM (#12005252) Homepage
    I thought Chrysler merged with Mercedes to survive...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:47PM (#12005262)
    Mercedes merged with Diamler Chrysler

    Wrong! Mercedes bought Chrysler outright. There was no merger, and Chrysler did not buy Mercedes.
  • by nullhero ( 2983 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:48PM (#12005274) Journal
    "can I run my tax software on it?" YES. "Can I run my office applications?" YES. "Can play a few commercial video games?" Depends on which ones specifically but the name games YES. "Will I be able to VPN to the office and back again?" Will your IT department actually support more than one VPN software if so then YES.

    So far I haven't found a reason to use a Windows box in 10 years. I'm a geek but I'm not a tech head. I run M$ Office and I like it better than the Windows version.

    The whole reason for a computer for me was a hobby and I'm interested in always having to upgrade the hardware whenever a new version of the OS comes out. Which is why I stopped working with Windows 10 years ago. I have yet to ever find a reason to want to. If I want to write a program I can - I have don't have to buy anything for my computer. With windows have you seen how much it costs to buy VB - and that's just Basic Programming.
  • Re:Why this is big (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:49PM (#12005278)
    Yeah, for two months. Then the TRS-80 was introduced, and the PET four months after that. Of course, even Apple wasn't the first if you count, say, the Altair.
  • by HerbieTMac ( 17830 ) <5excelroa001@sneakemail.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:51PM (#12005304)
    Good job. You succeeding in translating zealot-speak into zealot(prime)-speak. Your comment is unfortunately uninformed.

    Darwin maintains BSD compatibility but impliments a number of different approachs to core systems. For instance, the driver subsystem in Darwin is IOKit, an object-oriented system that allows for dynamic loading and unloading of device drivers (indeed, whole classes of drivers). BSD currently lacks this ability. Try coding a new driver for BSD and you will find yourself re-coding whole sections of pre-existant code that must then be loaded into the kernel side-by-side, increasing memory usage unnecessarily.

    Consider as well that Darwin is not a pure microkernel system. A number of subsystems are loaded into Mach, which allows for faster communication between the components.

    I would not claim that one system is arbitrarily better than the other but to claim that they are the same is pure garbage. You appear to just be quoting some equally uninformed /. poster.

  • by Rasta Prefect ( 250915 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:57PM (#12005386)

    I had to do a major upgrade to a 25 gig database last week. The server was aging, and had no free space to pull it off, so I had to migrate it all to my laptop, with a 160 gig external drive, and do it there. Even though it has a gig of ram, it still choked (created 7 gigs of swap) and took 2 days to pull it off. I left it sitting on the hotel air conditioner overnight, for fear of the poor little guy melting.


    So what you're saying is "I need a very high end machine, so anything else is obsolete". Never mind that the Mac Mini undoubtably cost far less than your uberlaptop with external drive.

    Yeah, I'd love to be able to pull off the "switch", mainly because I hate working 16 hour days on the road and would love to be able to shrug clients off and say "my computer doesn't do computer stuff, you can only buy music with it"

    This is frankly just stupid. OS X is a full featured Unix. Outside of the very high end environment its capable of doing pretty much anything that another unix based os such as linux is. I do systems administration work on a Powerbook G4, and it's frankly far more up to the task than a PC. If you'd had a Powerbook you could have just put it in target disk mode and copied your DB over, no need for the external drive at all. :) Or booted off of it. I've yet to see a PC do anything nearly that useful.

  • Re:The Apple Tax (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2005 @06:59PM (#12005404)
    Hi,

    First, no one has to upgrade, especially on an annual basis. If your current system is working fine, leave it be. Apple does provide Security Updates and point releases. Those who bought Panther started at 10.3 and are today at 10.3.8.

    Second, the time from Panther to Tiger is more than a year and might be closer to two years than one. And Apple has said that after Tiger is released that the next major release will probably take longer as well. So even if you were paying annually, you won't be now. Those release are farther apart.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:05PM (#12005454)
    "BMW bought Cooper"

    No, they bought Rover Group, ran it into the ground, sold off Land Rover to Ford and left them with all of Land Rover's problems and then escaped with the only brand name worth any money out of the group - Mini.

    Then they released a horrible, horrible pastiche of the original Mini with loads of problems and with none of the original features that made the first Mini a Mini - ie. small (hence the name), fast, cheap, good handling, innovative design.

    Furthermore, BMW pursued every Mini business with Mini in the name such as 'The Mini Center' or 'Minisport' and slapped 'passing off' law suits on them even though some of them had been trading under that name for 45 years.

    BMW are complete bastards.

    BMW don't own Cooper either. The Cooper name was owned by John Cooper and then sold some time ago. Rover used to licence it from the owner. I think maybe now BMW have bought the rights to the name but John Cooper Garages still exist and aren't owned by BMW. It's a Honda dealership as well as selling Minis. It's ran by John's son Mike.
  • by MaxQuordlepleen ( 236397 ) <el_duggio@hotmail.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:08PM (#12005489) Homepage

    Giants: Citizen Kabuto has been out for the Mac, and running on OS X for at least 4 years. There's been a copy sitting at the "Compucentre" in my local mall since about mid 2001.

    If you don't happen to live near me, use Amazon [amazon.com].

  • Re:Wrong Crowd (Score:3, Informative)

    by hawkbug ( 94280 ) <psxNO@SPAMfimble.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:08PM (#12005493) Homepage
    Where in the hell did you get the idea that I don't an "apparent need" for the machines I build? You're insane if you think I go around spending money on a machines that I don't need. Nowhere in my post did I give that indication. Here is what I use my current machine for:
    1. Web programming and site design, this involves my workstation being a dev web server running CFMX 6.1, SQL Server, etc. I also do flash design and graphics stuff, using Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator. Using CFMX, I write java apps to run on the web server, so I use the Netbeans 4.0 IDE to run and compile these.
    2. Gaming. UT2004 is my favorite and runs very nice on my AMD 64 3200+ with 1 gig of dual DDR 400, combined with my Geforce 6600 GT PCI-X.
    3. Video editing - I have a camcorder with firewire on it and a motherboard with firewire onboard. I take many, many videos of special family occassions for example, and I use programs like Adobe After Effects 5.5 to put nice effects into them and then burn them onto DVD.
    4. Word processing and other office apps - I work for a tax company, so reguarly I need access to things like word and excel.
    5. Web browsing and email access. I think any modern day computer does this, so it goes without saying.
    6. Virtual PC 2004 and VMWare - I use these to emulate about 4 different Linux distros I use at work for servers. I need a test environment at home and work to make sure things fly before putting them into production obviously.


    I didn't even mention things like CD burning, digital photography, and a host of other things my wife and I use our computer for. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer arrogance of people on slashdot these days, assuming they know my situation better than I. But back to my original point - HELL YES macs are expensive compared to what I built for under $100 with an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro on it. Apple doesn't even sell a computer in the same class as the one I built. I don't need dual CPU, but that's what I would have to get if I wanted the same speed of a CPU as I have now. The only single cpu they sell in the G5 is 1.8 GHZ, and if you carefully study benchmarks, a 1.8 GHZ G5 can't touch my AMD 64 3200+ - and even if it could, the system costs $1499 at the cheapest, and goes up with memory upgrades, etc. You're arguing a completely futile point - everybody knows Macs are more expensive. I never said they were inferior, just more expensive, which was my point the whole time, and no matter how much you argue with me, you can't win.
  • by johnnyb ( 4816 ) <jonathan@bartlettpublishing.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:10PM (#12005519) Homepage
    My wife loves her iBook. I'm actually feeling rather jealous.
  • by learn fast ( 824724 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:11PM (#12005542)
    BMW never bought Cooper, they bought Rover, and then "disposed of" most of it to Ford (apparently holding onto the rights to the brand "MINI").
  • by Pr0Hak ( 2504 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:14PM (#12005570)
    Well, every mac made since they got rid of the DIN-9 style serial ports has had at least one USB port. USB stands for Universal Serial Bus. It's a serial port!

    If you need to interface with legacy serial ports using something like RS-232 with DB9 connectors, you can pick up a cheap Keyspan adapter [keyspan.com]. I use one of these things *all the time* with my Powerbook to console into routers, switches, and servers. Works like a charm!
  • by jav1231 ( 539129 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:20PM (#12005655)
    As someone who's typing on one now, you have no clue as to what you are talking about. People really need to stop comparing the Mini to a cutting-edge gaming PC. I've even seen one run on 256MB just fine...MUCH smoother than a PC running XP on 256MB.
  • Re:Impossible (Score:3, Informative)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:27PM (#12005756)
    Sure, call it legacy, if you want. But when I run a retail business, and my receipt printers are all parallel port, and my credit card swipes and UPC scanners are all PS/2 port, I wouldn't exactly call them "legacy", except in the strictly technical sense of the word. Most small businesses can't afford to throw out perfectly good hardware just because something prettier came down the pike. All of my "legacy" equipment will be used until it fails (including my PC's), and not a second earlier, unless there is a massive gain in productivity to offset the price and headache of new equipment.
  • Re:I won't convert (Score:3, Informative)

    by stuktongue ( 140376 ) <adam.grenberg@NospAM.gmail.com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:45PM (#12005989)
    If you're interested in purchasing a Mac, I suggest you look at Apple's web site... there is a lot of information there on the PowerPC G5 (the CPU), the Power Mac G5 (the whole computer), Mac OS X, development, etc.

    I don't know if a third party monitor will work with an Apple-approved video card; this is probably something to ask your local Apple dealer. The Apple web site does describe the ATI and nvidia video card options for each model of G5, and the prices for them. As for software, if you look in the "Store" you'll find a tab that lists various software available for purchase directly from Apple, including games. I believe WoW is available, along with Doom 3. Finally, Apple includes Xcode as an optional install with OS X. This is Apple's IDE for C, C++, Objective-C, Objective-C++, and Java development. These languages can target the Cocoa, Carbon, and Java frameworks. And, of course, you'll have gcc and the various Unix APIs available to you.
  • by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @07:46PM (#12005994)
    9/10 of most machines you'll find in modern factories these days are run by old PC's with serial/parallel connections. Most retail setups need serial/parallel in some way. Tons and tons and tons of businesses have hardware that a Mac wouldn't even begin to know what to do with. Again, you're assuming that everybody works in an office with shiny new computers, PIMs, scanners, card readers, etc., etc.. Most of the world doesn't. Imagine a factory. Imagine a grocery store. Imagine a warehouse. Imagine a gas station......
  • by cens0r ( 655208 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @08:16PM (#12006288) Homepage
    I too wish the mini had a better drive. However, the iMac G5 is 2.5x as much. Plus I have a monitor, I don't need another one. Now if they had simply unbundled the LCD from the iMac and sold it for $700-$800, I probably could have been talked into it.

    The mini isn't perfect. But it does fit a very nice niche. Our household is filled with computers... the mini will be the 5th (1 windows box that I'm giving away, a debian server, a ubuntu workstation, and an iMac already live in our house). We need a new computer, it has to be a mac. I have tons of peripherials that it can use (keyboards, mice, monitors, external HD, etc). Ideally I'd like a G5 tower, but I just can't swing that finacially. I was going then going to get an iBook, but the mini will have similar performance at a lower price so it has won me over.
  • Re:Impossible (Score:3, Informative)

    by llefler ( 184847 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @08:31PM (#12006408)
    Sure, call it legacy, if you want. But when I run a retail business, and my receipt printers are all parallel port, and my credit card swipes and UPC scanners are all PS/2 port

    All of which are available in USB. I can understand not wanting to replace functioning equipment, but saying a PC isn't suitable because it doesn't support your legacy equipment is ridiculous. Having said that, the Mini isn't a great solution for POS anyway.

    BTW, you might want to check and make sure your 'UPC scanners' can support the new 'UPC' codes. Jan 1 2005 was the Sunrise date for UCC-12 (UPC), so you need to have support for EAN-8 and EAN-13.
  • Re:I won't convert (Score:5, Informative)

    by bnenning ( 58349 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @08:40PM (#12006477)
    I don't know if a third party monitor will work with an Apple-approved video card

    It will. Any VGA or DVI monitor will work fine.

    The Apple web site does describe the ATI and nvidia video card options for each model of G5, and the prices for them.

    Also ATI sells Mac 9800 and X800XT cards as upgrades.
  • Re:I'll switch (Score:3, Informative)

    by bnenning ( 58349 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @08:48PM (#12006544)
    Until there is a port of Cocoa for other platform then it's useless for me.

    That would be here [gnustep.org].
  • by ByteMangler_242 ( 618623 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @09:05PM (#12006702)
    Apple has this wonderful mode you can use your mac in called FireWire target disk mode. Simply start up the machine while holding down the T key and your mac's internal hard drive(s) become firewire disks. Essentially your mac becomes a very expensive firewire enclosure. Has saved me much time backing up, makes me love my Powerbook like the child I'll never have :)
  • Re:lies (Score:3, Informative)

    by mp3phish ( 747341 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @10:42PM (#12007611)
    get real. MacOS X needs 512MB minimum if you plan on running anything other than your desktop. Your disk will be swapping significantly with anything under 512MB in os X by default, even with just browsing the web and using iTunes...

    Dont spread lies to newbies. While YOU may think 256MB is good enough for most users, you should let people who actually know what they are talking about and deal with everyday problems of users to give advice to new users who are looking to buy a new computer system. I deal with hundreds of mac users on a weekly basis. I *KNOW* that 512MB is the minimum that 90% of those users need. And they aren't doing _ANYTHING_ special with them.

    (To the parent. Don't buy the special configured mac's... they are non-returnable if there is a problem with them. Instead install it yourself or buy the default bundle from a store and have them install it for you.)
  • by idlake ( 850372 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @11:14PM (#12007888)
    I bought a 15" powerbook. With after market addition of a 1GB DIMM raising the price to $2100,

    I just bought a 15" x86-based laptop for under $1500 (80G, 1G, SuperDrive, 1280x800), and I was already paying a premium for a nice-looking design.

    it does everything a $2500 windows machine does with much less worries regarding a virus,

    I don't worry about viruses either--I run Linux on it.
  • Re:Games (Score:3, Informative)

    by dcam ( 615646 ) <david AT uberconcept DOT com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @11:51PM (#12008184) Homepage
    First, if a game is decent, chances are, it exists for the Mac. Nearly all major games (Warcraft (I-WoW), Call to Duty, NWN, SW KotOR, Sims, etc.) have Mac versions that equal their Windows counterparts (not emulation).

    OK then. I currently spend a fair bit of time playing Counterstrike: Source, medieval total war. Games I have loved in the past: HL1, GTA:VC, BG2, Max Payne 2, Red Alert 2. Are any of them available on a Mac?

    Games that run on Mac are the exception rather than the rule.

    Second, who is running away from Linux because of the lack of games?

    Nobody. But people are choosing not to use Linux because the lack of games. I reached a point recently where I realised I could probably switch to Linux relatively comfortably for my home desktop. The only thing stopping me was games.
  • Funnily enough, even the desktop version of OSX can boot headless, i removed the displaycard from my mac (g4 desktop) and put in an incompatible one, it booted up with a blank screen but i could hear the disk being accessed like a normal bootup... Out of curiosity i tried to ssh to the machine and got in, it was running as normal just without the gui components loaded, i was able to do a gracefull shutdown and put the working displaycard back in.
  • by feloneous cat ( 564318 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @06:29PM (#12029358)
    I'm a paying Apple Associate. Beta tested OS X. So, of course anything I say is suspect.

    Yes, Virginia you CAN get by with 256 Meg. Yes, you will have swapping. No, unless you are a power user, you will not notice.

    I was under the impression my dear sweet wife had 512 Meg until one day I was updating her machine, got bored, and looked. I was horrified and amazed at the same time. She had been using the machine for close to two years, ripping with iTunes, etc. etc.

    I still got her a gig (hey, it's cheap).

    My advice, based on years of use of the OS X is to get 512Meg. It will help, but it is no panacea.

    The big lie here is that you need gobs of RAM. That is not true. You can get by with the minimum. 512 is only the minimum if you are a geek.

It is easier to write an incorrect program than understand a correct one.

Working...