Forbes Predicts 5% Desktop Share for Apple in 2005 1045
sebFlyte writes "Spurred on by the iPod, Apple's share of the desktop computer market will grow to five percent (from three percent) this year, according to research from Morgan Stanley. Apparrently nearly 20% of iPod users surveyed are planning to switch to Macs, and the sales figures for the last few quarters are backing up the theory of the iPod Halo Effect. All this suggests the question ... how many iPod-touting Slashdotters are thinking of switching?"
Re:Stock (Score:5, Informative)
Re:20% switching? No way. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why not (Score:2, Informative)
Quit with the same old tired sterotype (Score:2, Informative)
And besides, games are a good excuse to have at least two computers: one on which to get work done (Linux or Mac), and one on which to play games (Windows). That being said, there are an awful lot of games you can get for Macs or play the windows version on Linux via Cedega. (I've done a bit of both)
Re:Apple = Proprietary (Score:4, Informative)
I wanted to, but the price, oh, the price... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Apple = Proprietary (Score:3, Informative)
Next.
Re:20% switching? No way. (Score:3, Informative)
Im being given a mac myself (for web testing) and I was under the same impression until I saw the selection. WoW on a mac-mini? Going to have that thing plugged into my TV
Re:Stock - late to the party (Score:2, Informative)
But who knows, it could still go up with increased market share (The holly grail for Apple folks).
Big-S Switchers (Score:3, Informative)
Now I've started porting my commercail applications to OS-X.
I guess the ole' Reality Distortion Field really DOES work, eh? :D
2 in our household (Score:2, Informative)
Coming from a primarily Unix background, the switch for me was the appeal of nice hardware with the ability to get to all of my command line stuff while still having the slickness factor. I built white-box PC's for years, and was definitely 'anti-mac' for a long time. Using my g/f's powerbook was what got me to switch... "Hey look, you can use vi on it!"
On my g/f's side, the primary drive was being able to do what she does easier (desktop publishing, email, web, im,) and without as much worry about spyware, ads, etc.
We're now a 2 mac, 2 ipod household.
My dealings with Apples and Macs (Score:3, Informative)
I already switched (Score:2, Informative)
The iPod represents exactly what Apple is: an innovator. They release produts that innovate the market. The iPod and the iPod music store have revolutionized mp3 audio. While there were products before the iPod it was Apple's ingeniuos design that innovated the mp3 player boom. And thanks to the iPod music store we might soon see even cheaper than 99cent mp3s for download (see the slashdot article on 5 cent music).
The Mac OS is similar to the iPod. If you play around with it you will wonder why Windows hasn't picked up on some of the things. Expose, for example, will re-arrange the windows open or in a certain application so you can easily choose which one you want. Buttons such as "OK" and "Cancel" are all placed in the same exact spots (OK on the right, cancel on the left) in every application. Mac OS encourages their developers to stick to standards and for the most part, they do (ex: not having a 2 button mouse prevents developers from loading things into the right click menu, which many novice users do not know about). The design of the Powerbook alone blows my mind. For $1,000 cheaper than the PC counterpart I have a top of the line processor with a gorgeous screen, a large hard drive and plenty of RAM. But it doesn't stop there - the Powerbook has a light sensor that knows when to light up my keyboard (if it's too hard to see the letters on the keys) or turn it off if it gets light enough. I won't list all the wonderful features, you can go search google for that.
Conclusion: When I switched to Mac OS I was reluctant to give up on my PC. Now I find myself reluctant to use my PC even for the simplest of tasks.
Because they are not (Score:5, Informative)
Apple has a partical closed/partial open. Their foundation is actually opened based on BSD API. From there, they added in their old stuff with enhancements.
In addition, Apple does not typically use their system to try and lock out competitors. The IPOD is new behavior for them. Hopefully, they will consider how to approach things. The reason why OSS software is popping up around ipod is because Apple has not ported to Linux/BSD. Once they do (even closed), I suspect that we will see a lot fewer attempts to circumvent them.
OTH, MS uses their OS and Office as a way of controlling the end user WRT everything. If it was not for OSS, I have no doubt that MS would have been far worse than they are today.
Re:OSX for x86 (Score:3, Informative)
Let's take a look at the list (Score:5, Informative)
Quake 3
Doom 3
Black & White
The Sims
The Sims 2
SimCity 4
All the Myst games
All the Warcraft games
All the Diablo games
RTCW
All the Unreal Tournaments
I could go on and on here. Not to mention, I use emulators anyway, so there are all those games too.
I tried one (Score:2, Informative)
By comparison, I had already bought a Dell Inspiron 8100 - *refurbed*. And it has lasted over 3 years and the only thing I ever RMA'd on it was the battery, and it has gotten a lot more travel and abuse than the iBook ever did.
On the upside, the RMA process for the iBook was certainly simple. I felt like, as a warranty caller, I was a second-class citizen calling their support people, but I'm sure lots of people with software problems probably would be leeching free support if they didn't do it how they do. But once we got through the process, the RMA was relatively fast and simple.
So yes, I was the first wave of halo buyers.. I bought a mac to GET iTunes. And I'm thankful it's available on Windows now so I can keep using it, because it wasn't worth the headache of dealing with the iBook's issues.
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:5, Informative)
Apple is great but... (Score:1, Informative)
Why is it either or???? (Score:2, Informative)
So why can't you have all 3. or am I a heritic????
Re:Because they are not (Score:3, Informative)
Huh?!? Tell that to the former clone makers who no longer are able to make mac clones. Their behavior with regard to iPod is standard operating procedure for Apple. If they weren't trying to lock out competition, why is there not an z86 port of MacOS?
Re:Why this is big (Score:5, Informative)
http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/defau
(I believe that list may only include the papers which Microsoft has copyright to freely distribute, as opposed to papers in refereed journals, of which Microsoft employees have many.)
They may be the "evil empire", but they do have a lot of smart people working for them.
Re:I'll switch (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Let's take a look at the list (Score:5, Informative)
It was out on pc when? Last august? Same for the other games, they are older and were released on mac a few months (at the very least) after the pc version. Take a look at the top 10 upcoming games for pc at gamespot [gamespot.com], and tell how many of those will be available for macs. 2 out of 10? 3 out of 10? Even 5 out of 10 wouldn't be enough.
Not good enough for even a mild cored gamer. And for the record, I wish 10/10 of these games were playable on linux, so I wouldn't have to send one cent to either MS or apple to play the games I want.
Re:The rise (again) of console gaming... (Score:2, Informative)
http://homepage.mac.com/philrobin/conversation/
I did it backwards... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So 5% takes them back to... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So 5% takes them back to... (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong! Mercedes bought Chrysler outright. There was no merger, and Chrysler did not buy Mercedes.
Re:I really want to know... (Score:2, Informative)
So far I haven't found a reason to use a Windows box in 10 years. I'm a geek but I'm not a tech head. I run M$ Office and I like it better than the Windows version.
The whole reason for a computer for me was a hobby and I'm interested in always having to upgrade the hardware whenever a new version of the OS comes out. Which is why I stopped working with Windows 10 years ago. I have yet to ever find a reason to want to. If I want to write a program I can - I have don't have to buy anything for my computer. With windows have you seen how much it costs to buy VB - and that's just Basic Programming.
Re:Why this is big (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Bad troll. No cookie. (Score:5, Informative)
Darwin maintains BSD compatibility but impliments a number of different approachs to core systems. For instance, the driver subsystem in Darwin is IOKit, an object-oriented system that allows for dynamic loading and unloading of device drivers (indeed, whole classes of drivers). BSD currently lacks this ability. Try coding a new driver for BSD and you will find yourself re-coding whole sections of pre-existant code that must then be loaded into the kernel side-by-side, increasing memory usage unnecessarily.
Consider as well that Darwin is not a pure microkernel system. A number of subsystems are loaded into Mach, which allows for faster communication between the components.
I would not claim that one system is arbitrarily better than the other but to claim that they are the same is pure garbage. You appear to just be quoting some equally uninformed /. poster.
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:5, Informative)
I had to do a major upgrade to a 25 gig database last week. The server was aging, and had no free space to pull it off, so I had to migrate it all to my laptop, with a 160 gig external drive, and do it there. Even though it has a gig of ram, it still choked (created 7 gigs of swap) and took 2 days to pull it off. I left it sitting on the hotel air conditioner overnight, for fear of the poor little guy melting.
So what you're saying is "I need a very high end machine, so anything else is obsolete". Never mind that the Mac Mini undoubtably cost far less than your uberlaptop with external drive.
Yeah, I'd love to be able to pull off the "switch", mainly because I hate working 16 hour days on the road and would love to be able to shrug clients off and say "my computer doesn't do computer stuff, you can only buy music with it"
This is frankly just stupid. OS X is a full featured Unix. Outside of the very high end environment its capable of doing pretty much anything that another unix based os such as linux is. I do systems administration work on a Powerbook G4, and it's frankly far more up to the task than a PC. If you'd had a Powerbook you could have just put it in target disk mode and copied your DB over, no need for the external drive at all. :) Or booted off of it. I've yet to see a PC do anything nearly that useful.
Re:The Apple Tax (Score:1, Informative)
First, no one has to upgrade, especially on an annual basis. If your current system is working fine, leave it be. Apple does provide Security Updates and point releases. Those who bought Panther started at 10.3 and are today at 10.3.8.
Second, the time from Panther to Tiger is more than a year and might be closer to two years than one. And Apple has said that after Tiger is released that the next major release will probably take longer as well. So even if you were paying annually, you won't be now. Those release are farther apart.
Re:So 5% takes them back to... (Score:1, Informative)
No, they bought Rover Group, ran it into the ground, sold off Land Rover to Ford and left them with all of Land Rover's problems and then escaped with the only brand name worth any money out of the group - Mini.
Then they released a horrible, horrible pastiche of the original Mini with loads of problems and with none of the original features that made the first Mini a Mini - ie. small (hence the name), fast, cheap, good handling, innovative design.
Furthermore, BMW pursued every Mini business with Mini in the name such as 'The Mini Center' or 'Minisport' and slapped 'passing off' law suits on them even though some of them had been trading under that name for 45 years.
BMW are complete bastards.
BMW don't own Cooper either. The Cooper name was owned by John Cooper and then sold some time ago. Rover used to licence it from the owner. I think maybe now BMW have bought the rights to the name but John Cooper Garages still exist and aren't owned by BMW. It's a Honda dealership as well as selling Minis. It's ran by John's son Mike.
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:4, Informative)
Giants: Citizen Kabuto has been out for the Mac, and running on OS X for at least 4 years. There's been a copy sitting at the "Compucentre" in my local mall since about mid 2001.
If you don't happen to live near me, use Amazon [amazon.com].
Re:Wrong Crowd (Score:3, Informative)
I didn't even mention things like CD burning, digital photography, and a host of other things my wife and I use our computer for. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer arrogance of people on slashdot these days, assuming they know my situation better than I. But back to my original point - HELL YES macs are expensive compared to what I built for under $100 with an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro on it. Apple doesn't even sell a computer in the same class as the one I built. I don't need dual CPU, but that's what I would have to get if I wanted the same speed of a CPU as I have now. The only single cpu they sell in the G5 is 1.8 GHZ, and if you carefully study benchmarks, a 1.8 GHZ G5 can't touch my AMD 64 3200+ - and even if it could, the system costs $1499 at the cheapest, and goes up with memory upgrades, etc. You're arguing a completely futile point - everybody knows Macs are more expensive. I never said they were inferior, just more expensive, which was my point the whole time, and no matter how much you argue with me, you can't win.
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So 5% takes them back to... (Score:3, Informative)
USB: Universal SERIAL Bus (Score:5, Informative)
If you need to interface with legacy serial ports using something like RS-232 with DB9 connectors, you can pick up a cheap Keyspan adapter [keyspan.com]. I use one of these things *all the time* with my Powerbook to console into routers, switches, and servers. Works like a charm!
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Impossible (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I won't convert (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know if a third party monitor will work with an Apple-approved video card; this is probably something to ask your local Apple dealer. The Apple web site does describe the ATI and nvidia video card options for each model of G5, and the prices for them. As for software, if you look in the "Store" you'll find a tab that lists various software available for purchase directly from Apple, including games. I believe WoW is available, along with Doom 3. Finally, Apple includes Xcode as an optional install with OS X. This is Apple's IDE for C, C++, Objective-C, Objective-C++, and Java development. These languages can target the Cocoa, Carbon, and Java frameworks. And, of course, you'll have gcc and the various Unix APIs available to you.
Re:Serial ports in business (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I'll be one of the converts (Score:3, Informative)
The mini isn't perfect. But it does fit a very nice niche. Our household is filled with computers... the mini will be the 5th (1 windows box that I'm giving away, a debian server, a ubuntu workstation, and an iMac already live in our house). We need a new computer, it has to be a mac. I have tons of peripherials that it can use (keyboards, mice, monitors, external HD, etc). Ideally I'd like a G5 tower, but I just can't swing that finacially. I was going then going to get an iBook, but the mini will have similar performance at a lower price so it has won me over.
Re:Impossible (Score:3, Informative)
All of which are available in USB. I can understand not wanting to replace functioning equipment, but saying a PC isn't suitable because it doesn't support your legacy equipment is ridiculous. Having said that, the Mini isn't a great solution for POS anyway.
BTW, you might want to check and make sure your 'UPC scanners' can support the new 'UPC' codes. Jan 1 2005 was the Sunrise date for UCC-12 (UPC), so you need to have support for EAN-8 and EAN-13.
Re:I won't convert (Score:5, Informative)
It will. Any VGA or DVI monitor will work fine.
The Apple web site does describe the ATI and nvidia video card options for each model of G5, and the prices for them.
Also ATI sells Mac 9800 and X800XT cards as upgrades.
Re:I'll switch (Score:3, Informative)
That would be here [gnustep.org].
FireWire target disk mode explained (Score:3, Informative)
Re:lies (Score:3, Informative)
Dont spread lies to newbies. While YOU may think 256MB is good enough for most users, you should let people who actually know what they are talking about and deal with everyday problems of users to give advice to new users who are looking to buy a new computer system. I deal with hundreds of mac users on a weekly basis. I *KNOW* that 512MB is the minimum that 90% of those users need. And they aren't doing _ANYTHING_ special with them.
(To the parent. Don't buy the special configured mac's... they are non-returnable if there is a problem with them. Instead install it yourself or buy the default bundle from a store and have them install it for you.)
compare to x86 laptops (Score:3, Informative)
I just bought a 15" x86-based laptop for under $1500 (80G, 1G, SuperDrive, 1280x800), and I was already paying a premium for a nice-looking design.
it does everything a $2500 windows machine does with much less worries regarding a virus,
I don't worry about viruses either--I run Linux on it.
Re:Games (Score:3, Informative)
OK then. I currently spend a fair bit of time playing Counterstrike: Source, medieval total war. Games I have loved in the past: HL1, GTA:VC, BG2, Max Payne 2, Red Alert 2. Are any of them available on a Mac?
Games that run on Mac are the exception rather than the rule.
Second, who is running away from Linux because of the lack of games?
Nobody. But people are choosing not to use Linux because the lack of games. I reached a point recently where I realised I could probably switch to Linux relatively comfortably for my home desktop. The only thing stopping me was games.
Re:I like the iPod Shuffle so much... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:lies... Now the truth... (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, Virginia you CAN get by with 256 Meg. Yes, you will have swapping. No, unless you are a power user, you will not notice.
I was under the impression my dear sweet wife had 512 Meg until one day I was updating her machine, got bored, and looked. I was horrified and amazed at the same time. She had been using the machine for close to two years, ripping with iTunes, etc. etc.
I still got her a gig (hey, it's cheap).
My advice, based on years of use of the OS X is to get 512Meg. It will help, but it is no panacea.
The big lie here is that you need gobs of RAM. That is not true. You can get by with the minimum. 512 is only the minimum if you are a geek.