Apple to Buy TiVo? 491
vallette writes "Reuters is reporting that Apple may be interested in buying TiVo. Seems like a good fit to me. Both companies stock price is up on the rumor."
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Apple to Buy TiVo?
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"If I do not want others to quote me, I do not speak." -- Phil Wayne
Go for it! (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course the business analysis will make the ultimate determination of whether or not Apple is willing to make the move, (and Tivo has been losing money), but if any company can make it work, while showing the MPAA and equivalent TV organization a past history of success in media with iTunes, Apple is it. Come on, how would you like to in addition to the traditional PVR duties, be able to pull up TV episodes of old series that are not being shown, even in syndication? Or have a truly "on demand" movie library of all sorts, not just the popular canned options that cable companies think will be most profitable?
Maybe it's going here (Score:3, Interesting)
Figures (Score:5, Interesting)
In my day... (Score:2, Interesting)
Digital hub (Score:4, Interesting)
iPodTV anyone?
--Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]: Where Fairfax County comes out to play
why bother (Score:1, Interesting)
A use for the Mac Mini (Score:2, Interesting)
Could mae a lot of sense - it would look pretty nice next to a tv.. with a wireless controlloer of some sort.. could be a very nice package.
How do you think apple's FairWatch (or whatever they choose to call it) would end up looking like?
Apple marketshare (Score:2, Interesting)
We all know Apple is leading in MP3 players.
And we all know Apple has about 2% marketshare when it comes to computers. What I don't think I've ever seen though is a marketshare breakdown for just laptops. I only know one person who has a Mac on his desktop at home... but in my classes (computer science majors) I'd say about half the laptops are iBooks or PowerBooks... and I see perhaps an even greater percentage when I go into the library where the majors are more mixed. (And yet there's always a university Mac station free even when all the Windows PCs are taken and have a queue)
I know Macs are unpopular for desktops (never mind how many companies buy Windows desktops straight from Dell, that must REALLY count against Apple there)... but I have a hunch they're doing very well in the laptop arena.
Alternatively... (Score:5, Interesting)
As usual, good ideas never live up to the reality and the problem here isn't so cut and dried. CONTENT is the issue. All I see Apple gaining is the TiVO name (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing). Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.
Now... If Apple decides to take chances and 'loophole' solutions to let their consumers do what they want with the content - THAT would be interesting. So far, it appears the consumer electronics industry as a whole is rolling over when challenged by the likes of the RIAA and MPAA.
The discussions went something like... (Score:5, Interesting)
"Of course it would also nice if we could somehow integrate some PVR-like capabilities into our system... Time shifting and the like... Well say, that's what you boys do, now that I think about it. Look... You could sell media boxs for the next few years, until the cable companies, and the satellite companies put you out of business, Or... You could join up with me, and we can change the world!"
Tivo + Airport Express = Sweet. (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would this work for Apple? Yes, Tivo is getting hammered by the big cable companies, but Apple has never needed market share to succeed, if they make a nice box to fix in the home threatre cabinet then the Apple hoardes will follow.
Re:I wish (Score:4, Interesting)
Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Mac mini can be a TiVo unit (just use the S-Video out adapter for your TV set). Although it'll need a TV card (wish they'd come out with something like the Hauppauge Nexus-S satellite TV card).
2. Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video with content that can be transferred from your TiVo unit (the Mac mini) to your iPod Video portable unit.
3. Apple is probably not happy with just distributing music media (via its iTunes store) but is looking to the future to also provide downloadable video content via an "iVideo" store--what better way to do that than to buy the TiVo customer base and offer them this content.
4. Apple can ensure that the saved video content has the right digital stamps (a la
The one downside I see in this merger is that Apple will probably concentrate less and less on the service of "timeshifting" (i.e. drop it entirely), unless they can ensure that users have a right to that material. READ: unless the bigwigs of TV land is happy about how Apple handles digital rights management of timeshifted/saved content. Although timeshifting and saving media for later viewing is currently acceptable, the logical path that this technology leads to, is the ability to share that content or make it portable--something that is not yet acceptable among Hollywood and the TV networks.
Re:Apple better off on there own (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe they're holding out until the stock price drops lower before they buy. The answer to your question is that Apple is buying the brand, and for cheap. They also probably have some internet-to-Tivo movie distribution scheme in mind. This could be big.
One more thing: You meant "their" not "there". Please don't ever, ever screw this up again. This is how puppies get kicked.
Debt (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't TiVo have a huge amount of debt? While their product may be interesting, I am under the belief that if Apple were to purchase Tivo, it would mean also having to acquire that debt--whereas, if anything, if Apple just purchased the rights to the TiVo software (to run on a mini, etc) they don't have to take on that debt too.
What does Apple gain from a TiVo purchase vs a license to their tech? If Tivo were making money, there'd be that--but they aren't and their prospects are dim.
I can see Apple licensing the tech, releasing it for free (for Macs) or as part of their iLife tools--and then charging a sub to hit Apple servers for schedule download. And I think they could do really interesting things with DRM content with OS X as a platform. I guess we'll see.
I'm fine with it... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Go for it! (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not TiVo? (Score:4, Interesting)
Regardless of its declining status, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't TiVo still the current market leader for PVR products? I mean, if Apple DOES want to quickly get into the PVR market, wouldn't it just make sense to buy the market leader and go from there if possible?
It just seems to me that even if TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and/or market share, it would be a hell of a lot easier for Apple to buy it and turn it around than to start from scratch and overtake them with a whole new product line. Besides, TiVo does still have some interesting things going on. Even though the deal is winding down, they still have the DirecTV subscribers, plus the Home Media capabilities (easily integrated with iPods), plus the Netflix deal, and so on.
Whether or not this actually happens, it seems to me that this would be a sweet deal for both companies, if (and only if) Apple seriously wants to get into the media center market.
(If Apple does this just to "play around" in the media center market, then it will be an unmitigated disaster for both companies.)
Re:Go for it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Furthermore, Tivo is "the" PVR appliance. Apple buying them adds instant credibility and instant userbase. You might think that Apple have credibility already, but despite their attempts, they are still known as a computer company rather than an appliance company.
Buying a company gives them a running start as well. There's no sense suffering from Not Invented Here syndrome and writing your own, when you can instantly get a codebase and engineers that have worked on it.
I think Tivo is a good match with Apple. I can see Apple pulling together the home network much more easily than Microsoft. They are ahead of the game with the small-form factor and LCD screens by default, they have components to meld your Mac, your stereo and your iPod together, and Zeroconf takes the headaches out of configuring it all.
Apple are establishing themselves slowly in the appliance market, and following that up with services to match - Mac OS X with
I can't think of another company that I truly feel has a good idea of where it's going, how to get there, and which companies will aid them in doing so - except perhaps Google. If Apple buys Tivo, I'll see this as simply another indicator that Apple Has Its Head Screwed On[tm].
cringely's prediction (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Alternatively... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Go for it! (Score:3, Interesting)
I wouldn't think it would be that much of a stretch to get the Tivo software working on a Mac with extra hardware for the MPEG-2 encoding and TV Tuners anyways. Not to mention it would probably work very well with the home video strategy Apple is pursuing on their desktops.
Re:Alternatively... (Score:3, Interesting)
Hello? iTunes Music Store on your TiVO, anyone? Not to mention if Apple starts selling music videos or other video content via iTMS...
Re:Go for it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple didn't roll the iPod interface entirely on their own. The first iPods had, in the About section, a mention of a company called Pixo. Pixo was developing an OS for mobile phones or some such thing, and Apple came along and had them retool it for use on the iPod. Since then Apple has brought iPod OS development in-house, but it's important to remember where it started.
That being said, Apple didn't consume Pixo, just one of their products and some of their employees. And TiVo is much, much bigger than Pixo in terms of company size and brand recognition.
Here's where I go some of the info for this post: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004
Mr. Spleen
Re:Alternatively... (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple would not only get the name but the familiar and excellent Tivo interface/software. This includes the familiar and excellent Tivo remote. Sure, upside down it looks like a, ahem, little black dildo [designfund.co.kr], but other than that its probably the best remote design out there. They also get Tivo's customer base and a chance to build upon a well-known brand.
Lastly, they also get all that sweet, sweet tv datamining. The data tivo collects makes the Neilson system look like 1950's technology. Apple could better resell or use this information than tivo currently does. Sounds weird? Not any weirder than Apple being the largest online digital music seller and mp3 player producer.
There's a lot to tivo Apple can build on. If apple wants to bridge the TV/PC gap then this looks like a smart move.
Blogs are both good and bad for journalism (Score:4, Interesting)
What's particularly interesting about this saga is that it was started by some random guy who could be your next door neighbor or someone embedded deep in Apple. Who really knows?
The sloppy reporting that followed was then exposed by aka-ed, who though not "blogging" it in the most exact sense of the term was for all intents and purposes doing just that - taking advantage of a Web forum to shed a little light on how the rumor got started.
The interplay between traditional "Big Media" players and bloggers is getting weirder and weirder every day.
Re:Pricing? (Score:3, Interesting)
So people would have to buy the hardware outright. They'll probably get a one year subscription for free. Then pay monthly after that.
You can't really compare Apple products to mere VCRs and DVD players. Apple does a fantastic job at selling highly priced hardware to people willing to pay. In other words, Apple's version of Tivo would not be built or marketed for every tom, dick, and harry who shops at Wal-Mart.
BTW, "TiVo Shuffule" Fucking hilarious!
Re:Go for it! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Go for it! (Score:3, Interesting)
The subscribers have obsolete equipment that won't be able to handle h.264 (MPEG-4), which Apple will need for HD content delivery. Why not sell them an Apple box instead of an Apple/TiVo box when they decide to upgrade? (and they'd be less likely to expect a special deal for being "loyal subscribers")
There are no partnerships with cable providers. Their only partnership with satellite providers is DirecTV, who is phasing them out for a home-grown DVR.
Apple doesn't need more brand name recognition [slashdot.org]
Developing from scratch would take what, a year minimum? These boxes have to be solid. You can't just throw MythTV into a system and start shipping.
Any viable system will have to support the CableCard 2.0 standard, which coincidentally won't be ready for a year, minimum. So Apple has plenty of time to develop its own DVR.
An "A-ha!" moment? (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple has been trying to make Mac OS X that hub by leveraging the success of the iPod/iTMS. They've even made it easy for Windows users to stream music from one system to another through the iTunes Sharing feature, which is completely cross-platform and so easy to use anyone can get it working in 5 minutes. But Mac OS X is tied to Apple's core products -- Apple computers. And therein lies the problem. Only geeks have computers in their family rooms connected to their TVs.
Tivo represents the only independent, open-platform consumer entertainment DVR vendor that's had any degree of longevity and success in the marketplace. And for that reason alone, it's an attractive target for Apple.
By making Tivo into the Apple-branded/powered equivalent of the Windows Media Center -- with Apple's cache and technical props associated with it -- Apple will have captured the cornerstone of "the digital lifestyle": the family room and TV. And this will succeed because Apple has already seeded the key "spokes" of the digital hub lifestyle, with iPod, iTunes, and iMovie. Other vendors don't have these assets, and the barriers to acquiring them are high.
To be sure, Jobs' ownership of a major content producer will be a boon should he decide to create an iLife Video Store (or whatever). But that's several steps away. The game is not video. The game is about capturing the high ground -- a ground that Bill Gates cannot buy his way into. (Microsoft has been trying to persuade infrastructure providers, such as cable TV companies, to run their boxes off Windows for years and, from what I can see, he's no further along today than he was five years ago.)
Microsoft, for its part, needs another market to dominate, soon. Its desktop dominance is under serious threat, which will only become more acute over time. Microsoft has to extend its monopoly, and has been trying to do so by leveraging Windows alone. But it has always relied upon, and will always rely upon, third party hardware producers to adopt its products. Unlike the genesis of Windows, though, Microsoft doesn't have a pre-made marketplace through which it can persuade manufacturers to sign on to their worldview. In other words, Microsoft has to produce a compelling product before it will have the market support which will equate into success for Windows Media Center (and subsequent iterations of this product).
Apple produces hardware and software. It doesn't need to rely on others to do its heavy-lifting for hardware, and clearly it is successful in this regard. Hardware will never be a core competency for Microsoft; it's always been so for Apple. This has had its downside, of course: their hardware costs more due to simple economies-of-scale (or lack thereof); cross-platform compatibility has sometimes been spotty; and it takes a lot more R&D dollars to execute both innovative hardware and software strategies. But if these fundamental problems can be overcome -- as Apple has largely done by adopting a Unix base for its core OS and by allying its hardware with broadly-used components -- then the chances for long-term success are very good indeed.
Jobs lost the operating system and hardware battle once. But that was never the war, and to believe it was is simply shortsighted. Furthermore, he's begun the process of renewing that very same battle. But the fundamental point is this: Gates and Jobs, and others like them, want nothing less than dominance of how consumers manage their content. Remember: the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. And that's why Apple should buy Tivo.
Re:Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? (Score:3, Interesting)
Simplest case, a Sony-made companion box for the Mac Mini, call it MacTiVo. Firewire to the Mac Mini, full set of A/V connections to your other A/V components.
More complex, and less likely. A Sony-made Mac Mini Plus - Tivo & Macintosh features all in one box.
Far fetched. Mac Mini Super - TiVo & Macintosh features all in one box plus docking for your iPod with video transfer to the iPod.
An HDTV DirecTiVo is $800-$1000 nowadays. A smoothly integrated MacTivo capable of HDTV priced at $400-$500 would sell like...like...like iPods!
just a matter of who an when (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Pick on Mikey! (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus Pixar's refusal to make Toy Story 2 a crappy direct-to-video movie calls in to question Disney Animation's whole business plan of making one good movie a decade then turning it into a franchise of bad movies/TV shows. c.f. Lilo & Stitch on TV or Mulan II: The Electric Boogaloo.