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Apple Businesses

iPod Shuffle, Mac Mini, iLife '05, iWork 2465

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the steve-puts-on-a-show dept.
A number of announcements from the Mac World keynote this afternoon. The iPod Shuffle is pack-of-gum sized, no screen, weighs less than an ounce. Ships today, $99 for the half gig, $149 for a gig. The Mac Mini is the headless iMac... 6x6x2.5 with all the expected plugs, starting at $499. Lot's of tiger bits, spotlight, virtual folders in Mail.app. iLife '05 will ship Jan 22. iPhoto gets folders and video support. iMovie supports HD. GarageBand gets 8 channel recording. iWork includes Keynote 2, and 'Pages' the new word processor and ships the same day as iLife.
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iPod Shuffle, Mac Mini, iLife '05, iWork

Comments Filter:
  • Re:Yes, but... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Andy_R (114137) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:06PM (#11323826) Homepage Journal
    Yes. From http://www.apple.com/iwork/

    "Pages is compatible. It imports AppleWorks documents and imports and exports Microsoft Word documents. Want to share your documents online? Pages also offers the easiest way to create great looking PDF files. Pages makes it easy to share your work with others."
  • Re:No screen? (Score:2, Informative)

    by entrager (567758) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:06PM (#11323838)
    As the name suggests, the iPod Shuffle doesn't allow navigation, it just randomly plays songs.
  • by PenguinRadio (69089) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:10PM (#11323900) Homepage
    http://www.apple.com/store

    but it is crashing pretty hard. Basically 1/3 of a cube. Smooth looking. Ports in back, CD slit in front and that's about it.

    Bet you could make a cool cluster out of these.
  • Re:No screen? (Score:5, Informative)

    by entrager (567758) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:10PM (#11323903)
    I should add that it's possible to have it play songs in a pre-set order, which you would define from within iTunes. You would just need to memorize the order.
  • Mac Mini (Score:4, Informative)

    by sometwo (53041) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:15PM (#11323996)
    Engadget has some pictures of the mac mini http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000590026982/ [engadget.com] It's about 1/3 the size of the cube- looks smaller than most external cd drives. They're going to cell millions.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:17PM (#11324036)
    Apple's imac mini page is actually selling the thing as a second computer...

    They talk about adding a KVM switch to your keyboard, mouse and display and popping the imac mini on top of your PC and whola! you have a imac to go with your pc.

    These things are going to fly out of the stores...

    (and, every kid in america is going to be wearing an ipod shuffle around his or her neck this summer.)

    Good god what's up with apple? Could they possibly think they have a chance to gain PC marketshare?
  • by javaxman (705658) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:18PM (#11324079) Journal
    well, at least not all of those expected by everyone. Some folks ( who clearly didn't know ) were predicting something you could plug into a TV. This isn't that, it's a standard computer with typical modern computer ports and DVI/VGA video, just 'mini'. Really, really, mini... it makes that George Foreman Grill computer look freekin' huge.
  • by beef curtains (792692) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:19PM (#11324084)
    Yep. In fact, here they are:

    http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/ [apple.com]

    http://www.apple.com/macmini/ [apple.com]
  • MOD PARENT UP (Score:5, Informative)

    by TheRaven64 (641858) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:21PM (#11324125) Journal
    Idiot moderators don't know irony when they see it. The parent poster is paraphrasing CmdrTaco's comment on the launch of the iPod:

    No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

  • Re:Well, I'm in (Score:3, Informative)

    by the_rev_matt (239420) <slashbot@@@revmatt...com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:21PM (#11324135) Homepage
    Mac mini sports a full-fledged ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB dedicated DDR SDRAM over an AGP 4x bus.

    Max of 1920x1200 resolution
  • by KevCo (2333) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:22PM (#11324154) Homepage
    There are PS/2 to USB adapters. I use a similiar one to the link below with my iBook. http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=1501& sku=27225 [cablestogo.com]
  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:4, Informative)

    by BasilBrush (643681) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:23PM (#11324165)
    Buy a Mac keyboard to go with it, and you get two more USB connectors right there.
  • by Ryan Stortz (598060) <ryan0rz@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:24PM (#11324188)
    It looks like the Apple site [apple.com] has been updated aswell. With Nerd Porn (Pictures)!

    Mac Mini [apple.com] & iPod Shuffle [apple.com].

    Damn you Apple, just when I convinced myself I didn't have enough money to buy a Mac.
  • by RocketScientist (15198) * on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:25PM (#11324212)
    I've used the belkin and others. Never had one NOT work. 100%. Every time.
  • by TheViffer (128272) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:26PM (#11324226)
    Depends ... could be hidden costs. On the specifications page it clearly states the following.

    "Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider."

    So does that void the warrenty if you crack the case open to swap out say the memory or drives?

  • by Ethelred Unraed (32954) * on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:29PM (#11324286) Journal
    Hopefully, it'll work with the PS/2 keyboards and mice that I've got lying around, if not then I suppose that I'll be shelling out for USB ones but that's no great loss.

    Or just pick up a used Mac one on eBay for a song.

    You can use Winders USB keyboards, but it's a little less confusing if you get a Mac one.

    Cheers,

    Ethelred

  • by gobbo (567674) <wrewrite AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:35PM (#11324383) Journal
    Playing these in random order will be a complete mess.

    So don't. Just play your playlist the way you ordered it before uploading.

  • by timmyf2371 (586051) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:36PM (#11324407)
    Out of curiousity I checked Apple's UK Store and it looks like the price for the basic model will be £339, which brings the Mac Mini into the commodity hardware price range.

    Similar to yourself, I've also got the feeling I'll be a Mac owner pretty soon.

  • by Johnathon_Dough (719310) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:38PM (#11324449)
    Not free, but elgato software makes the eyeTV [elgato.com] for macs

    EyeTV is a feature-rich digital TV recorder with realtime MPEG-2 video encoding that allows you to watch, record and edit your favorite TV shows and movies directly on your Mac. Automatically schedule when to record shows, edit out the unwanted content, and then burn your recording to DVD. You can even pause and replay live TV, letting you watch what you want, when you want it. The combination of EyeTV and an Electronic Program Guide means you'll never miss a show.

    I have not actually tried it myself, but apparently it has/will soon have HD support as well.

  • by Afrosheen (42464) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:39PM (#11324463)
    I just worked on a 20" Imac today (the new one, not the hemisphere) and noticed that alot of the contextual clicking is unnecessary. Many applications now have little arrows or extra buttons that you use contextually, as opposed to right or middle clicking things. It's been awhile since I had used a Mac so I was pleasantly surprised.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:45PM (#11324596)
    Posting as AC, but it's being the major misunderstanding:

    IPOD SHUFFLE LET'S YOU NAVIGATE IF YOU WANT, RANDOMNESS IS AN OPTION!

    From Apple's website [apple.com]:

    "With Play in Order mode, you manage the music. If things take a turn for the predictable, never fear. Turn iPod shuffle over, flip the slider to Shuffle and mix on the go."

  • by Mr.Zuka (166632) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:45PM (#11324604)
    on the contrary
    Apple is showing the adapter to hook it up to a TV on the main site for the mac mini http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html [apple.com]
  • Already is! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Pfhor (40220) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:50PM (#11324711) Homepage
    Called KeySpan, Express Remote.

    http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html

    USB -> IR remote, been around for ages, i love it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:52PM (#11324745)
    I use my mac every day. I gave the one button mouse a try for three months. Then I gave up and switched to a real mouse. On the other hand, I use my powerbook every day too, and about half the time I have only the one button touchpad. One advantage of the touchpad is the proximity of the keyboard, so it doesn't seem like quite as big a hassle to have to use the command key.
  • by WaKall (461142) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:53PM (#11324753) Homepage
    MythFrontend is already a first-class Mac application. You could set your minimac to autologin a user, start MythFrontend at login automatically for that user, and now you just need some form of remote control.

    You'll still need a MythBackend around, with the TV capture card in it and running Linux. AFAIK, Myth recording is still Linux-only.

    Myth Frontend for OSX is really slick. I run it on my G5 and it just usurps the position of wallpaper while I have AIM windows on top of it.
  • by catwh0re (540371) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:54PM (#11324781)
    the thing is apple software is not so right mouse button dependent anyway. like in windows you can't do much without accessing the contextual menus, while in mac software it's really been designed around. (i,e programmers had to design a better interface instead of being lazy)
  • by Dragonfly (5975) <jddaigle&mac,com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:56PM (#11324808) Homepage
    So yes, $499 includes the latest version of Mac OS X.

    As a side note, all Apple servers include a copy of OS X Server UNLIMITED Client. Factor that in every time you compare a Windows Server to an XServe!
  • by Garfunkel (3569) <jay.jayandcarissa@com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @03:56PM (#11324814) Homepage
    why not just get a $150 Xbox. That's what I'm going to do, it runs mythfrontend just fine.
  • by ianscot (591483) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:01PM (#11324906)
    they've essentially nipped that perennial argument in the bud.

    "In the bud"? More like years after it went to seed. How long has it been since Mac OS had any limitation on the use of two-button mice?

    I agree, they threw that line in there to address it with the people who weren't paying attention. But the "argument" here hasn't been a meaningful point since... I can't think when... How old is the Kensington Turbomouse line?

  • by mikeplokta (223052) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:03PM (#11324928)
    It's £339 including VAT. At today's exchange rates, US$499 + 17.5% is £311, so they're not screwing us too badly.
  • by Xyde (415798) <`slashdot' `at' `purrrr.net'> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:04PM (#11324968)
    It's not you guys. I was in an IRC channel which was covering the keynote earlier and it had 1876 users in it. (all hitting refresh on apple.com) I'm sure slashdot has something to do with it as well, but there are about 10 of these channels plus other sites doing live coverage. I wouldn't be suprised if there were about 50,000 - 100,000 people trying to access it at this point.
  • by adzoox (615327) * on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:05PM (#11324980) Journal
    "Built in blue tooth. Built in airport."

    Umm - built in for an extra $139 you mean.

    These don't come standard. Neither does it come with a keyboard or mouse or monitor.

  • by Heisenbug (122836) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:05PM (#11324982)
    OK, all you folks who are about to get your first Mac -- yes, do it, it's worth it. But listen, OS X just won't be happy with 256MB of RAM. Throw in another $75 and get 512.

    Apple loves overcharging for ram. I don't know why, and it bugs me, so normally I upgrade from a third party right after I get a new computer. That isn't an option here, so just bite the bullet and do it. Otherwise, we're all going to be back here in a month complaining about how slow the mini is, and no one wants that.
  • inside the Mac mini (Score:3, Informative)

    by minus_273 (174041) <aaaaa AT SPAM DOT yahoo DOT com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:06PM (#11325004) Journal
    if you want to see what the insides look like check this [apple.com]. you can clearly see that something like the RAM are user serviceable.
  • by javaxman (705658) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:07PM (#11325045) Journal
    how easy/difficult would it be to cluster these things a la Virginia Tech's supercomputer

    A question so funny, I feel compelled to reply to it... not sure what that says about *me*, but anyway...

    The Virginia Tech cluster is cabled together with some very, very high-end high-speed networking stuff, and the Mac mini ( note capitalization, like 'iPod mini' ) has standard 100-baseT ethernet, so one technically correct answer to your question, based on networking tech, would be 'can't be done'.

    On the other hand, XGrid [apple.com] would run on this like any other OS X machine, so with a little ( fairly simple ) programming, you'd be clustering away in style. If you have some computation that's Altivec optimized, you'll probably even outperform a comparably priced cluster of Linux machines... though really, you *should* be able to put together a comprable no-graphics-card AMD boxen for ( a little, not counting labor ) cheaper, if a cluster of "whatever" cheap machines is really your goal.

    A bunch of Mac minis could sure fit in a small space, though! I couldn't build a cheap PC that small. A cluster of Mac minis might not beat a G5 XServe cluster for price/performance, but it'd be cheap to set up!

    Short ( ha ha ) answer: nobody is going to go about setting up a network of these for "real" high-performance computing... but a small college or even high school lab could be built pretty cheaply and XGrid applied to get it all hummin' on some distributed computing project and actually do some pretty impressive number-crunching... cheaply!

  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:11PM (#11325108)
    The 'Design' page says it has "a teensy little fan".
  • by pascalb3 (514151) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:14PM (#11325172)
    $20 DVI -> S-video/composite adapter [apple.com].
  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:3, Informative)

    by prockcore (543967) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:14PM (#11325180)
    Buy a Mac keyboard to go with it, and you get two more USB connectors right there.

    But it's not powered. So you can use the keyboard to plug in a mouse and a thumbdrive, but not much else.

    Plus, Apple keyboards are $80.
  • by ianpatt (52996) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:21PM (#11325327)
    > Oh yeah, and the fact that, apparantly, you can listen ONLY in shuffle mode - hence the name.

    Sorry, no:

    "With Play in Order mode, you manage the music. If things take a turn for the predictable, never fear. Turn iPod shuffle over, flip the slider to Shuffle and mix on the go." http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
  • by Migrant Programmer (19727) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:28PM (#11325468) Journal
    Trolls indeed.

    Closed systems.

    Boo hoo.

    The fact that I can't carry a few spare AAA batteries.

    A battery extender accessory that uses AAA batteries was also released today.

    The fact that Apple will gouge me on a replacement battery when it dies (and it will).

    Boo hoo. Replace it yourself.

    The fact that I'll need to tie the iPod Shuffle's serial number to my PC.

    WTF?

    The fact that it's firmware likely isn't upgradable.

    The firmware of other iPods is upgradeable, and has been upgraded several times by Apple in the past.

    It probably doesn't play OGGs.

    It probably doesn't play the Adlib file format either. That's about the same amount of impact on its potential user base. Before I forget: boo hoo.

    Won't work as a plain ole' USB thumb device.

    It sure will. You can specify how much of the space is used for music, and how much is used for other files.


    Oh yeah, and the fact that, apparantly, you can listen ONLY in shuffle mode - hence the name.

    Apparently you need to get a clue. There's a switch to change between Shuffle mode and Play In Order mode.

    Apple's iPod shuffle website [apple.com]

    IHBT, and I am having a very nice day, thank you.
  • Re:Mac Mini Analysis (Score:4, Informative)

    by Nephilium (684559) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:29PM (#11325478) Homepage
    The Mac Mini is aimed clearly at PC users looking to switch, but featurewise it is a disappointment.
    I think you've got the target audience wrong... I'm guessing that we're the target audience. Not the mainstream computer user; but rather, the geeks who keep computers working. I know that I wouldn't mind picking one of these up as a second box to play around with and learn OSX. I will say that you left out some information in your comparison:
    1) OS Cost not factored in. Unless you're assuming that the Windows XP copy would be pirated (an understandable assumption)
    2) The volume of the Mac Mini (that needs to be reversed, henceforth, it is the Mini-Mac) is listed in the description of the product (6.5" x 6.5" x 2"; 16.5 cm x 16.5 cm x 5.1 cm)

    Pretty much, it's a cheap Mac that I'm interested in picking up... (especially since I need to learn how to fix my mom's new iBook G4...)
    But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
    Nephilium
  • Re:Yes, but... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Elwood P Dowd (16933) <judgmentalist@gmail.com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:29PM (#11325479) Journal
    While Pages may be sufficient for doing the basics of letter writing and entry-level document preparation, many of the more complex business level documents still will require Microsoft Office or an equivalent alternative.
    And while Microsoft Office might be sufficient for doing the basics of memo writing and entry-level document preparation, many of the more complex prepress documents still will require Pages or an equivalent alternative.

    Look at Apple's screenies for Pages, and tell me that you'd want to try and use MS Word to create those documents. I'd rather have a hole in my head. Pages' layout features look as if they surpass Word like Keynote surpasses PowerPoint. Yes, if you need an embedded Excel spreadsheet, you'll need Office. But you might already have MS Office, and still need Pages.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:31PM (#11325516)
    Blue Loctite [loctiteproducts.com]
  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:2, Informative)

    by TylerL82 (617087) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:43PM (#11325694) Homepage
    Nope. Apple Keyboard is now $29.
    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObj ects/A ppleStore?productLearnMore=M9034LL/A

    You're thinking of the $69 wireless keyboard (it's $59 now).
  • Re:iMac mini (Score:3, Informative)

    by larkost (79011) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:44PM (#11325710)
    Six months... umm it [keyspan.com] is already out. Keyspan announced it in November, and it just started shipping (yesterday I believe). The remote can either work directly, or through an AirportExpress.
  • by Oktober Sunset (838224) <`ku.oc.oohay' `ta' `301egapds'> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:53PM (#11325825)
    http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/mac_mini_pc_ jan2005_480.html spin it round and you can see the power supply behind it.
  • by RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:04PM (#11326006)
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?desc ription=55-102-169&depa=0 [newegg.com]

    OK, so it's $25 more. But it has a screen, an FM tuner, and a voice recorder.

    It syncs pretty nicely with Windows Media Player 10.
  • by Golias (176380) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:04PM (#11326024)
    The mini uses the same ATI card as the latest eMac, which I can tell you first-hand handles World of Warcraft rather well.

    Since we know there are no other games for the Mac (*ducks*), that should do the trick for the near future.

    If you play a lot of games, I wouldn't tell you to get a Mac mini and a game console... I'd tell you to get a Mac mini and a KVM switch, and keep playing your twitch shooters on your uber-1337 game PC.
  • by mapmaker (140036) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:15PM (#11326192)
    Here's [chiefvalue.com] one that's smaller, lighter, just as cheap, and has just as much room. Plus it has an LCD screen, voice recorder and FM radio.

    This ipod shuffle really is just a "me too" product.

  • by Infamous Coward (642174) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:21PM (#11326279)
    Who in their right mind buys memory from an OEM?

    Err...someone who doesn't want to void the warranty? My post was in reply to one that noted that the specs page says:

    "Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider.".

    Are there "authorized service providers" that do not price gouge like the apple store? I would very much like 1GB of memory but there is no way I would pay these prices for it.

  • by Me2005 (848698) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:37PM (#11326523)
    THere is a way to do it at Crucial's prices when you go to your local Apple Store to buy your Mac Mini/Powerbook/G5/etc... just take a printout with the cheapest memory you found online and Apple will price match it (I got a powerbook with 512 Mbs, in-store price-matched)
  • I went with a $600 shootout instead of $500 to make sure that some obvious add-ons were included with each model, but the new Mac mini holds up surprisingly well!!

    $600 Desktop Apple/Dell System Shootout [systemshootouts.org]
  • by juiceCake (772608) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:49PM (#11326679)
    I know, I've been putting off buying a mac for quite some time, this makes it much harder to just say no.

    Still too pricy for me here in Canada: Mac Mini upgraded to 512 MB RAM, 80 GB HD, Superdrive, AirPort Extreme Card - Only $1024.00 + tax. Unbelievable.
  • by kuwan (443684) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:53PM (#11326753) Homepage
    Yep

    Here's the WoW system requirements: [worldofwarcraft.com]

    Mac® System OS X 10.3.5 OS:
    933 MHz or higher G4 or G5 processor
    512 MB RAM or higher; DDR RAM recommended
    ATI or NVIDIA video hardware with 32 MB VRAM or more
    4 GB or more of available hard drive space
    MacOS X 10.3.5 or newer
    56k or higher modem with an Internet connection

    Since the cheapest Mac Mini has a 1.25 GHz processor and ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of VRAM then you should be set. Though since it only comes with 256 MB of RAM you'll probably need to upgrade to 512 MB, but you were going to do that anyway, right? Actually, you were going to max it out at 1 GB of RAM, right? ;)
    --
    It works. [wired.com]
    Free Flat Screens [freeflatscreens.com] | Free iPod Photo [freephotoipods.com]
  • by SamSeaborn (724276) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @06:19PM (#11327157)
    If you get an Apple keyboard, it has two USB ports on it. Plug your camera in there.

    Sam

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @06:36PM (#11327385)
    Don't forget Apple Remote Desktop.
  • Re:Well.... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @06:42PM (#11327479)
    I've really enjoyed OSX so far, but, I find the one thing that to me is the least useful, is iTunes.

    I always thought iTunes was overrated by Mac users because they've never had good alternatives like PC users have had. When Apple released the first version of iTunes ("Rip, mix, burn. Do it on a Mac"), Mac users finally discovered something that PC users had been doing for over a year with apps like MusicMatch Jukebox (before it sucked), and Windows Media Player 7. And while iTunes initially sucked donkey balls (it's much nicer now), many Mac users thought it was the greatest app ever.

    That said, I think the current version of iTunes is a nice music player/manager. However, it's not so nice at ripping and encoding mp3s. The default mp3 encoder is awful [rjamorim.com]. If you want to use iTunes to encode mp3s, change its encoder to LAME [versiontracker.com].

  • by JudgeFurious (455868) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @06:47PM (#11327571)
    I got my most recent Mac for free. A PowerMac G4 Sawtooth that had a dead power supply. They didn't want to pay for the replacement part so they basically gave me the dead system.

    Take one ATX power supply, cut four wires, splice two of them in to the other two and shazam! Free Mac.
  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:2, Informative)

    by Moofie (22272) <lee.ringofsaturn@com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @07:13PM (#11327950) Homepage
    Hel-LO spec sheet! [apple.com]

    # DVI video output for digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 pixels; supports 20-inch Apple Cinema display and 23-inch Apple Cinema HD display; supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz; supports non-coherent digital displays up to 135MHz
    # VGA video output (using included adapter) to support analog resolutions up to 1920 x 1080 pixels
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @07:46PM (#11328366)
    IIRC, RAM installation at an Apple Store (bring your own) is $30. $30 more than we want to pay, sure, but it isn't going to break the bank anytime soon.
  • Re:Mac Mini (Score:3, Informative)

    by soft_guy (534437) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:05PM (#11328608)
    Were you seriously expecting Apple to ship a Mac with PS/2 ports?

    Second, I'm not sure why you think you would need a USB hub with this. Plug in a standard Mac keyboard and you get two usb ports on the keyboard. Now, plug in the mouse and you still have a total of two USB ports available.

    Want to plug in an iPod? You use Firewire for that.

    A scanner? OK, that's one USB port.

    A printer? OK, that's another USB port. Unless you have an Airport Express in which case you can print wirelessly.

    What do you need the third one for? Sure, I can think of uses, but I also think that the majority of users would not need a USB hub.

  • The path of money (Score:3, Informative)

    by SuperKendall (25149) * on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:07PM (#11328631)
    But there are many ways to achieve an end. Just because Microsoft took the path of generally screwing people over does not make it a requirement. IBM is behaving quite well nowadays, and is generally as big as Microsoft.

    The other thing is that Apple, as a company, has seen the power of basing things on top of Open Source stuff. Lots of quality software without a huge engineering expenditure. Look at how because they do not have to work on OS internals as much, they are able to get truly interesting higher level features added to the OS with a smaller development staff!! While Microsoft pushes WinFS out another few years, Tiger is getting Spotlight and CoreData for real early this year.

    Apple has a huge financial incentive to keep doing what they are doing, because it is working and making them money.
  • by plastik55 (218435) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:08PM (#11328636) Homepage
    If by "smaller and lighter" you mean "50% wider, 70% heavier and twice as thick." [transcendusa.com] Try again dude.
  • by foonf (447461) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:11PM (#11328679) Homepage
    Notes for MS Bigots: The Atari ST shipped with a two-button mouse years before PCs even had mice.

    I don't think this is right. PC mice were available at least as early as 1983; the first Microsoft mouse came out then and it was even supported in the first DOS version of Word. There may have even been some available earlier than that. Mice were also available in that time span for the Apple II and other early architectures. The ST did not arrive until 1985.
  • by Xenex (97062) * <xenex&opinionstick,com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @08:59PM (#11329275) Journal
    * if you choose to upgrade the RAM on your own, you'll pretty much want to drop in 1 GB (+/- $180 at current prices; Apple wants $425) and be done with it. Feed the stock 256MB DIMM to your dog.
    And void your warranty; memory is not a customer installable part in the Mac mini.
  • by MasonMcD (104041) <masonmcd@@@mac...com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:02PM (#11329302) Homepage
    Err...someone who doesn't want to void the warranty? My post was in reply to one that noted that the specs page says:

    "Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider.".

    Are there "authorized service providers" that do not price gouge like the apple store? I would very much like 1GB of memory but there is no way I would pay these prices for it.


    It doesn't say "memory must be purchased from Apple" only that the upgrade is performed by an authorized service provider.

    Go out and buy RAM from RAMJet or whomever, and trot down to an Apple Store if you want to keep the warranty intact.

    If you don't care - I know tons of /. readers are oh-so-careful not to void any warrantees with unnecessary mods - wait about 12 hours after the mac minis start shipping, then google for the damn japanese schematic detailing the 19 steps for cracking open the case, disassembling the case, sticking in the gig stick of RAM, neon tubing, the Radeon X800 XT with the slot cut out of the side of the mac to accommodate it, the peltier cooler, neon tubing and dry ice special effects.

    24 hours after they ship, you can probably buy a ABS plastic extruded plastic case cracker with instructions off somebody's dot mac site.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:02PM (#11329308)
    "You can buy a third party DIMM and throw it in. Why do you say it's not an option?"

    Because it voids your warranty. RAM can't be installed by the customer.
  • Re:$499 Mac? Damn (Score:3, Informative)

    by Scudsucker (17617) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:14PM (#11329443) Homepage Journal
    The Mini looks looks like another homerun, their first small form factor PC

    Don't forget the Cube [cubeowner.com]. The difference between the Mini and the Cube is that the Cube used expensive parts while the Mini probably uses compenents from the iBook line. Oh, and the Cube went for $1300 more than the Mini, IIRC, and also did not come with a monitor.
  • by Pfhor (40220) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @09:36PM (#11329687) Homepage
    Converter from DVI to VGA is provided with the machine, for $20 you can get svideo/composite out adapter that plugs into DVI port, but you can't have both (moniter and tv). DVI will plug directly into HD TV.

    There are numerous audio solutions, check the accessories page.

    http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html

    Instead of raising the price by added things that not everyone needed (remember, no monitor, keyboard, or mouse), apple went bare minimum, but gave you the ability to add functionality through USB /Firewire.
  • by TClevenger (252206) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @10:26PM (#11330181)
    Right-mouse drag-n-drop is the one feature that I miss. On Windows, you can right-drag and then choose Copy here, Move here, Create Shortcut here, Unzip here, etc. from the contextual menu that results. On OS X, you have to use a key combination when dragging and dropping, and you don't get cool add-ins like "WinRAR extract here."
  • Re:Yes, but... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Elwood P Dowd (16933) <judgmentalist@gmail.com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @10:53PM (#11330392) Journal
    I'll be curious to see how the HTML and .doc compatibility works.

    I just got back from MacWorld, and this was the very first thing I asked of the very first demoer I saw. Well, I don't care about .doc formatting working perfectly as well as I care about HTML formatting working perfectly. And the answer is that it doesn't work very well at all. Most of the general layout is there, but much is lost. I didn't ask to see .doc exporting.

    One of the project managers was over the shoulder of the demo guy, and he pointed out "but our columns have features that they don't have". The columns actually worked perfectly, but text flow around an image element had a semi-messed up border.

    Obviously, given the headaches of multiple browser compatibility, there would be absolutely no way that they could allow you to use whatever layout feature you wanted in Pages, export it to HTML, and have it to look perfect. Unfortunately, it doesn't look very good at all. The demo guy said, "Well, all the content is there".

    Outside of the HTML export, the application is fucking rad. If your desired output method is PDF or paper, I've never seen a slicker word processor. They beefed up the Keynote canvas until it could handle everything you need for page layout.
  • by NoodleSlayer (603762) <ryan@severe b o r e d o m . com> on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @12:01AM (#11330999) Homepage
    The Mac Mini has no screw holes. At least none that I was able to see. A couple of us were looking at one today trying to figure out how to open the sucker ;)
  • by Slayback (12197) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @12:02AM (#11331009)
    No, you do not void your warranty to simply add RAM or upgrade the hard drive.

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=1 39 46
  • by cwg_at_opc (762602) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @12:46AM (#11331307) Journal
    i decided to build up a shuttle with similar capabilities(using newegg):

    Shuttle XPC Model SN41G2V3 - Item#N82E16856101460 $269.00

    AMD Mobile Athlon XP 2500+ - Item#N82E16819103401 $88.00

    Geil 512MB(256MBx2) - Item#N82E16820144309 $80.00

    Western Digital 80GB - Item#N82E16822144122 $60.33

    NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW - Item#N82E16827152037 $67.99

    Logitech diNovo Cordless - Item#N82E16823126166 $125.00

    NETGEAR Dual Band Wireless PCI - Item#N82E16833122126 $71.99

    Innocom V.92/56KData/Fax/voice Modem - Item#N82E16825100103 $21.50

    ATI RADEON 9200 128MB DDR - Item#N82E16814102287 $93.50

    Windows XP Media Center 2005 - Item#N82E16832102311 $131.00

    Office Small Business 2003 - Item#N82E16837116148 $331.00

    Intuit Quicken 2005 Basic - Item#N82E16832109137 $36.00
    total: $1,374.81

    the mac is a BTO, added BT, AP, BT-keyboard and mouse

    Mac mini 1.42GHz Accessory kit
    Internal Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme Card
    80GB Ultra ATA drive
    SuperDrive
    56K v.92 Modem
    512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
    Mac OS X - U.S. English - P/N: Z0B8 $903.00

    Wireless Keyboard & Mouse Set - P/N: B9396LL/A $99.00

    Office 2004 for Mac - P/N: T9189LL/A $399.95
    total: $1,401.95

    differences for the shuttle:
    DVD burner(the only silver ones were 16x).
    Modem(has to be external if you want PCI-802.11a/b/g)

    summary:
    shuttle pluses
    - you can build it yourself
    - you can upgrade it yourself
    - games(!)
    shuttle minuses
    - you can build it yourself
    - you can upgrade it yourself
    - Windows
    - finding drivers, updating patches
    - fan noise

    mac mini pluses
    - its very small
    - its very quiet
    - it looks nicer(subjective)
    - the software is preinstalled
    - there's more software included(appleworks, iLife, garage band, iMovie, iDVD)
    mac mini minuses
    - you can't upgrade it
    - you can't make it faster(see previous)
    - it's easy to steal(not showing up in any offices anytime soon)
    - games :-( (that would be a LACK of games, although that's changing, slowly)

    so once you've added up all the stuff you need to match the mini, you end up darn near close;
    a $27.14 difference in favor of the Shuttle.

  • by tyrione (134248) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @01:12AM (#11331477) Homepage

    You are aware that some of the developers who wrote Lighthouse Design's Office Suite of products are responsible for Keynote and Pages, right?

    Expect these apps and more to creep in and expand in capabilities rather rapidly.

    All memorable NeXT applications were never the Kitchen Sink. They believed in Services and leveraging Cocoa from the Developer Community to grow for everyone.

  • by iroll (717924) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @01:39AM (#11331633) Homepage
    Does the shuttle come with a standard laptop security slot, so that it can be locked down? Mini does, and since most of that kind of crime is crimes of convinience.... there goes that arguement :D
  • by MrYotsuya (27522) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @01:46AM (#11331677)
    I guess I can empty my pockets of change and mail it to you, that should cover about half of it at the current rate, right? ;)


    Looking at today's financial pages, the Canadian dollar buys 0.8214 US dollars and the US dollar buys 0.7617 Euros, I suppose it's just as true that a European can give you less pocket change to get that iPod
  • by Faithman2k (604227) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @01:57AM (#11331753)
    When you change your iPod from PC to Mac it will delete all of the songs you've put on it.

    I've had iPodRip recommended to me as a good solution. You can find it on the link below

    http://www.thelittleappfactory.com/application.php ?app=iPodRip [thelittleappfactory.com]
  • by phillymjs (234426) <slashdotNO@SPAMstango.org> on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @02:00AM (#11331772) Homepage Journal
    For $500, the miniMac is just right for use as a local network server.

    Agreed. The subscribers on the Mac home automation mailing list I belong to are absolutely drooling over the possibilities the Mac mini presents. When I migrate my home servers to OS X, the home automation controller duties were going to be taken up by my old Quicksilver 733 that was replaced by my G5-- but now I may just sell it on eBay and pick up a mini. And I'd better get the Quicksilver listed fast, because used Mac prices are probably gonna take a hit once the mini becomes readily available.

    ~Philly
  • by soullessbastard (596494) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @02:13AM (#11331851) Homepage Journal
    Definitely I'm aware. There's a reason why some slack COO (or whatever title he has now) of Sun wouldn't open source the source code for the old Lighthouse suite of apps (Create and friends, I understand why FrameMaker couldn't be licensed even though I wish it was). And Schwartz is even COO or whatever other title of the week he has. Sun should own the Lighthouse source code from their buyout in the previous age of this world, but that code has just magically disappeared despite a number of folks asking if they could open source that instead of the non-native OOo code.

    [tinfoilhat]Sun may very well be the new cloakroom wheeling-and-dealing Satan of our time![/tinfoilhat]

    ed
  • by hunterx11 (778171) <hunterx11&gmail,com> on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @02:38AM (#11332008) Homepage Journal
    If an OS upgrade comes out within a certain timespan of getting a new Mac, you can get it for $20. I did.
  • by CaptDeuce (84529) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @11:56AM (#11335645) Journal
    After 10+ years of not working with Apple's machines professionaly I would have expected that they would have wisened up on this particular aspect, but alas, they have not.

    Yes, Apple has wised up; happened quite a while ago. This has been mentioned at a few sites (here's one: http://www.macintouch.com/mwsf2005notebook.html [macintouch.com]) but merely installing RAM (or whatever) in your Mac doesn't void your warranty -- breaking your Mac in the process does. This has been Apple's policy for over ten years.

    The vast majority of product warranties, regardless of product type, only protect against defects in design or manufacturing. Manufacturers routinely discourage consumer fixes by encouraging all servicing be done by qualified technichians. Apple is hardly special.

  • by Meneudo (661337) on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @09:52PM (#11343723)
    That's why apple Keyboards have an eject button. No apple keyboard? Then you probably don't have an apple mouse, so just right-click and hit eject. No apple keyboard but still using ol' one button? Use the finder.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, 2005 @11:26PM (#11344630)
    when you grab the disk the trash can turns into an eject symbol, so you might not have thought of that but if you "tried" to do something with the disk it would quickly become aparent

"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history." -- George Bernard Shaw

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