iPod Generation 4 Released 619
I_am_Rambi writes "According to MSNBC "The considerably tweaked fourth-generation iPod will roll out this week, and Newsweek got an advance peek. It looks a bit different, operates more efficiently, has a few more features and costs less. Here are the highlights...." Improved battery life, upto 12 hours, a click wheel, more efficient menus, multiple on the go play list, and probably one of the best changes is a lower price. $399 (down from $499) for a 40 gig, $299 (down from $399) for a 20 gig, and there are no 15 gig versions." And you can read Apple's iPod site for the full details.
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
Umm... Marketing?
The iPod is very successful. Right now, the people that are buying them are going to pay a premium. When this market is saturated, they can then sell lower priced versions. This is pretty straight forward economics.
I'll be one of the first to buy the cheap version that comes out around Christmas time.
because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're looking for a cheap iPod, check eBay.
Re:considerably tweaked? yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Go to colorware [colorwarepc.com] if you need a color or just buy a mini that already has good battery life and comes in colors.
Or you could just go the cheap route and by one of the 100's of different protective skins.
Re:15gb (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Price (Score:2, Insightful)
does anyone think the drop in price is anything to do with the sucess of iTMS in europe? or is it just apple being nice to us?
Re:Prediction (Score:2, Insightful)
Slashdot nerds will complain that iPod's do not have OGG support and are thus evil and should never be purchased.
No Vorbis support doesn't make it evil, just worthless (for me).
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
They're already selling like hotcakes, nimrod.
Q: Why would you drop the price on something that you already can't make enough of?
A: You're an idiot?
If this post offends you, it's because the truth hurts. Try saving up, it's how a lot of us can afford expensive items.
Re:Firmware update (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see any technical reason why things like multiple generated playlists, speed-variable playback and hearing the clicker through the headphones can't be done on current iPods.
However, the current update page [apple.com] seems to restrict those features the the newest model.
I wish Apple wouldn't try and alienate their older customers so much like this. With software, it isn't so bad since the investment usually isn't as large. But with firmware and hardware, the investment can be quite conciderable.
No dock? No carry case? wtf? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know how useful dock is, since I've never used an iPod, but it does seem like a kick in the pants not to include it. Carry cases get used all the time I'm sure, it's a shame those are excluded.
I think it's the battery that does it for me. I'd really like the ability to purchase another battery 2 years down the road and snap it in myself. (Much like I can with the propriatery battery for my digital camera)
When they solve that issue, they'll have my money.
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)
Considering that you're more likely to trip over a siberian tiger in Manhattan than to find an OGG file, the ability to play OGG is just an icing on the cake, and not really necessary in a portable music player.
Of course, if you're one of those overzealous people who compressed everything in their collection to ogg when the "MP3's are going to be illegal!!!#!##!##!!# WE MUST NOT USE IT!" craze of a few years ago, that's your problem. }:)
-Z
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hard disks, such as those used in the iPod, have high fixed costs to produce. So while it may be possible to cram more bits in the same package as technology advances, its difficult to take an older, smaller disk and produce them cheaply. The single biggest cost in producing an iPod is the hard disk. QED, etc.
Also, given that iPods in all varieties have been selling like hotcakes from the start, why would Apple want to lower the price? Clearly lots of people are willing to pay the $300-$500...I know I was.
Re:Prediction (Score:2, Insightful)
If you can believe it, I still don't have a portable music player other than my six year old cd player. (I'm one of three people in the US without some sort of modern music device). If the iPod came out in a less expensive model that would work with my Linux box, I would buy it. Plain and simple.
For now, I'll let others enjoy it and refrain from calling them evil unless they also support Bush.
Re:considerably tweaked? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's with your apparent assumption earphone color affects their quality?
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:european price markup - why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
sorry, the truth is it costs almost the same amount to make a 15gb hd as a 20gb. infact, i bet the difference is measurable in a few dollars. so what's your choice. offer a 15gb at $290 and 20gb at $300, or just a 20gb at $300? it's pretty simple which one apple's going to sell. until the manufacturing costs come way down on miniturized hard drives, it will pretty much be the same price for years to come.
Re:Prediction (Score:1, Insightful)
This is the fourth generation of iPods and they still haven't designed a way to easily remove and replace the battery.
What does that tell you?
Re:Firmware update (Score:1, Insightful)
Where is the radio (AM/FM)? (Score:3, Insightful)
thanks to apple (Score:5, Insightful)
Now its cool to own mac stuff, and not as geeky. When im podding down the street I get stopped by common folk, conversations are struck and I'm meeting new people all from a little white music device.
"oh I want one of those, whats yours" - is all thats said until a conversation is struck.
I have a 3rd gen ipod, and very happy with it. I wont bother with a mini, or the 4th because mine is going great guns.
Some would say expensive, but if they can charge the market and get away with it to get the best margin then goodluck to them.
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they could drop prices, try to be the "Windows" of mp3 players. But it requires a completely different business process. More cost-efficient solutions (read: cut corners), less R&D, heavy optimization of the production process and so on. Move around production based on wage costs etc.
Trying to be a price leader is a very tough market. Unlike software, where you "accumulate" code, the hardware business is full of clone makers, staying just out of reach of your patents. I don't think the iPod would be anywhere near the success it is, if Apple had chosen that strategy. It is simply not in their corporate culture and way of thinking, quite simply: others are better at it.
Instead they build brand, making people want an iPod, not pick it on price. Clone makers can't really touch that, because they customer specifically wants an iPod - not any other brand. And it is amazing how much cash you can up with for something you want, if only you prioritize...
Kjella
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:4, Insightful)
I am neither a supporter nor detractor of Apple. I worked for an Apple reseller from 1983 to 1998 and sold Apple for most of those years and it was enjoyable. Eventually they undercut the dealer channel and that probably contributed to market share decline as the dealer base switched to pushing Windows machines.
It will be interesting to see what Apple looks like in five years. They might innovate themselves into a good position or they might slip into the tech graveyard. Hard to tell.
Cheers!
Erick
demand from hundreds of thousands of people. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure.
20 gigs: $299
40 gigs: $399
15 gigs with Ogg support: $499
I mean, come on. What do you really mean by "huge?" They obviously don't feel that the cost of integrating the feature would be worth the effort. And when I think about it, I can't blame them: hell, I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't have included mp3 support if it wasn't for the fact that the installed base made that the "cost of entry" for the device to the market. Otherwise, they'd just have gone with AAC (and later, ALC).
Oh, and by the way: what do you mean by "many like you?"
Somehow, I kinda doubt your conception of "many" jibes with theirs.
Re:Prediction (Score:1, Insightful)
I'd venture to say that a CD player is a modern music device. When I was growing up, we used cassette players .. we called them "Walkmans" back then.
And as for DRM, I've been using my iPod for about 6 months now and I have never had problems with using it as an MP3 player. I very rarely have issues with Apple's DRM, which only really applies to ITMS purchases. I don't use ITMS (much) so it doesn't get in my way of enjoying my music.
Re:ARRRGGGH. (Score:3, Insightful)
And what if I wanted waffles?
Why do they refuse to offer an iPod for $200? They'd sell like hotcakes. Not everyone needs 40 freakin' gigs.
Seems like a false argument by pointing to the top model when discussing a hypothetical bottom end? If one doesn't need 40 freakin gigs, why not buy the 20 gig version for $100 less than the 40 gig version?
Re:considerably tweaked? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:european price markup - why? (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't make sense at all. If your currency increases in value in relation to another country, their goods typically drop in price in your country, not increase.
Re:OGG Vorbis, what does it take to get the suppor (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the first time (and won't be the last) that I'd backed the wrong horse. For instance, I preferred the Amiga to the PC, but I lost out there too. Market forces meant that I either stayed back with my little minority interest and my politics, or I (begrudgingly at first) followed the herd.
I held out for a good while for ogg support, now I've had 9 months of happy iPodding and I couldn't care less. I really don't see the benefit of vorbis over decent bitrate VBR. I also don't think 95% of the people who've bought iPods have any idea at all what ogg, flac, aiff, audible and so on are.
Whenever I see the spec, though, I always wonder how many people are carrying round an iPod full of WAVs...
They do sell cheaper iPods! (Score:5, Insightful)
And yes, it is selling like hotcakes.
As far as why they're not selling a 15 gig white iPod, I'm sure there are a few reasons:
- 15 gig drives probably cost about the same as 20 gig drives.
- Offering two products which are very close in features tends to confuse the market.
- A 15 gig model that was much cheaper than the current 20 gig version would probably undercut the mini's market.
If you're so price-sensitive that you can't spring for the extra $49 that a mini would cost you, then probably:
- You shouldn't be spending money on a portable music player anyway.
- You should check out eBay [ebay.com].
- You might want to take a look at some cheaper knockoff [nomadworld.com] devices.
Oh, the POOR ogg people. (Score:5, Insightful)
Learned an important lesson about "better" standards. Unless it's got widespread adoption, or improves things by an order of magnitude, it's not going anywhere. Vorbis may sneak in as people start using it here and there (video games, etc...) just because it's free, but I'd expect that to take a LONG time. For now, I'm sticking with mp3 for portables, and keeping the files in FLAC for easy reconversion next time. If only I'd had the storage space for that the first time around-- converting LPs is *tedious*.
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)
Well I find lots of OGG files. I rip my own CDs into OGG for my Rio Karma.
Why the heck shouldn't Apple add Ogg? It is a low cost feature and it is easy to find "legal" encoders for many OSs.
I have to wonder why no one has made a PDA with a 20 or 30 gig hardrive yet? It could even play Video files as well as music.
Re:considerably tweaked? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not everyone lives their life within easy reach of an electrical outlet, and those who don't appreciate every extra bit of battery life they can get.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't necessarily think this is a good idea, but I'm not the product designer that's been doing this for years, either. Note that there's always the possibility that the iPod's CPU can't decode Vorbis in real time. It does run Linux, though, so just install Linux on the thing and run ogg123
As an aside, I have a lot of FLAC files, but that's not really going to stop me from buying an iPod. Nothing a very small shell script can't fix.
Nice Update (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're looking into the 20gig version, here are some thoughts:
1) Spend $40 to get the remote (if you don't have it already).
2) The dock is only an added feature, it's not really needed. I bought the case and remote on my own when I got the 10gig version and have never seen a need for the dock.
3) Get a better case than the $40 Apple one that requires you to take it out of the case to use it. There are some nice cheap clear ones out there.
Also keep in mind, if you wanted the 40gig version in the past, it's now $100 cheaper! I was planning on getting the 20gig because I filled up my 10gigs. Now for the same price I can get another 20gigs. While the new 20gig version does leave out some things, the 40gig is much better deal now!
If you're like me and bought the remote and case seperately, then upgrading to the 20gig version still lets you have the remote/case. No big deal. The way I see it, I'm still saving $100 no matter what I do.
Look on the bright side, there's now longer battery life, a cleaned up interface and a new wheel.
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
It has nothing to do with not wanting to waste engineers time on an obscure format that a handful of people on Slashdot *want*.
Re:european price markup - why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, this would make things cheaper in Europe than the US. Think about it - if the pound is stronger, then it can buy more dollars, so things priced in dollars get cheaper.
Re:20gb = no dock! (Score:5, Insightful)
here's how this works:
1. The low end iPod doesn't have a dock or carrying case. It never has.
2. The 15GB model has been eliminated, and the 20GB is now the low end.
3. The 20GB iPod cost you $399 yesterday, and now it costs $299.
Therefore, with these three statements, there was a price reduction, and the product line has been enhanced where the accessory opkits remain the same.
Stop thinking you're getting screwed when you really aren't.
Re:Where is the radio (AM/FM)? (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, I wouldn't want a device that included a radio tuner, or for that matter, voice recording and image viewing capabilities. That is the road that cell phone manufacturers went down with the camera phone, MP3 playback, SMS messaging and all that. To some it is a necessity, but not for me.
The iPod is a tool for transporting and listening to high quality music of your choosing, on demand. The ability to listen to AM/FM radio runs counter to this purpose.
I understand some people *really* need a radio, or the ability to record their own voice, or some other feature. Luckily, there is a huge 3rd party industry with high quality products from comapnies like Griffin Technologies [griffintechnology.com] that address these concerns wth add-ons.
Re:considerably tweaked? (Score:2, Insightful)
Try a cross country flight with one stopover.
Re:Editors, huh? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Firmware update (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:20gb = no dock! (Score:3, Insightful)
1. The low end iPod has always cost $299.
2. The low end iPod has been upgraded from 15GB to 20GB.
3. Yesterday, the 20GB iPod would have come with a dock, remote, and carrying case, and now it does not.
You can either look at it as a price/accessory reduction in the 20GB model, or you can look at it as an upgrade in the storage capacity of the low end model.
Re:Oh, the POOR ogg people. (Score:5, Insightful)
replace "vorbis" with "linux", and this sounds very familiar indeed...
Re:It's great to see the new generation. (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? I couldn't imagine they are upset at Apple. Apple has CREATED an entire acessory industry and when new products come out, especially when the design changes.
Now your iDevice that you love doesn't work with the new iPod, so you have to buy a new one where as you had no reason to need a new one prior to the upgrade.
Plus, you might sell your old iPod on eBay, creating a new owner who also needs the old-generation iDevice...
The Slashdot MicroEconomy (Score:3, Insightful)
There's something horrific that occurs here: this community tends to view itself as representative of the consumer base as a whole when in fact it is not. Granted, it is a varied group but tends to be much more technical than the average Joe. So to say that it's not going to sell because of an inflexible format may represent a portion of the Slashdot community but that is a very small portion of the world-at-large. Obviously the general population of people shopping for portable players like the iPod or they wouldn't have sold as many as they have. Slashdot readers, contrary to popular opinion, still only represent a very small piece of the global economy.
Charging from USB 2.0 connection is big. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:15gb (Score:4, Insightful)
Want something cheap? Go buy one of Apple's competitors' devices.
Oh, you want it to have good design as well? I see. Then you get to pay for it. Get used to the notion that quality engineering costs money. Zero of Apple's competitors have quality engineered hardware.
Yes, including that Neuros lunchbox. Boy, that's a dumb looking piece of hardware.
Re:12 hour battery life and click-wheel (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, they're telling Creative that a music player can have long-playing capabilities and not look like a piece of geek ass.
Re:15gb (Score:5, Insightful)
First, 51% percent of the MP3 market already is iPods. So your snobbery take is simply wrong. It may have started that way, but now it's become the "me too" syndrome. You aren't hip unless you have an iPod just like your friends.
Second, Alpine will soon be offering an iPod compatible sound system for you car, so there goes your second elitist argument.
Thirdly, iPods are enjoying triple-digit sales growth right now (last quarter sales were 180% above same quarter, previous year sales). Now, please tell me why a company that has 51% of the market, and is STILL enjoying triple-digit growth rates needs to change their pricing structure at all?
Re:15gb (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus, there is a limit to how small a thing needs to be before it is no longer an asset. A laptop so small that it is hard to read the screen or type on the keyboard is no longer benefitting from its small size for many users, and similarly a stamp-sized mp3 player would be too small for some.
My older iPod broke and I decided to replace it with a mini, which I like and is big enough for half of my music collection (the other half has a lot of crap I don't really need anyway). But when it starts getting this small, I can see someone choosing a model with 50% more volume for double the battery life.
Re:For my money (Score:4, Insightful)
You probably applied the same rule to the car you purchased. While your Geo Metro will also get you to work and back, my Audi A4 with Quattro, a Bose sound system, and leather interior gives me more pleasure when driving it.
I am not critizing, I am only trying to remind you that people put different values on different things. There is a reason why brands are important to their owners because they convey a lot of things: image, lifestyle, costs, etc. What may float your boat may not float someone else's. Different strokes for different folks.
And lest you fail to see my point that you also have the same character trait, take a look in your cabinet and tell me how many generic products you have. I can guarantee that there are generic versions of almost everything you buy. Cheaper? Yes. Better? Maybe...maybe not.
Since people are so quick to ignore this point.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:20gb = no dock! (Score:1, Insightful)
3. The 20GB iPod cost you $399 yesterday, and now it costs $299.
The 20GB iPod PACKAGE cost $399 yesterday. That included the 20GB iPod, cables etc..., the dock, and the carrying case. Now, the same package without either the dock or carrying case costs $299. All this means is that a different package which has just been introduced costs $100 less than an older package. It certainly doesn't imply that the same old thing now costs $100 less, especially given that the new iPod is...new, 4g, whereas the older package was 3g. Is this really that difficult?