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Media (Apple) Businesses Media Apple

60GB iPod Coming? 563

An anonymous reader writes "Toshiba today announced that it will offer a 60GB version of its 1.8-inch hard drive in the coming months and that Apple has already placed its order. Cindy Lee, deputy manager of Toshiba's hard disk drive division, said the drive will enter mass production during July or August. All three iPod models (15GB, 20GB, and 40GB) use Toshiba drives, while the iPod mini uses a 4GB 1-inch drive from Hitachi. Lee noted that Toshiba is currently shipping 350,000 of the 1.8-inch drives per month to Apple."
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60GB iPod Coming?

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  • Enough is Enough (Score:3, Interesting)

    by moberry ( 756963 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:36AM (#9322449)
    I have almost 10 GB of music on my pc. I only listen to about 50 of them on a regualr basis. Does anyone really need 60 GB of music. Yes it can be used for backup purposes. But dedicated backup external hard drives at a higher storage capacity are cheaper than this.
  • Minis.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Piranhaa ( 672441 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:37AM (#9322454)
    I wonder what kind of breakthrough the mini drive will get in the near future. 4gigs is a decent size for a music player, but what if someone wants to use it for back-up purposes? It would be something if Hitachi came out with a 10gig mini cf card that could still be price-attractive to the consumer point of view!
  • July or August, eh? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) * <{ude.lfu} {ta} {dnaslihp}> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:38AM (#9322456) Homepage
    Seems perfectly timed to coincide with MacWorld. So that's two announcements we know about now - Tiger and the 60 GB iPod. Wonder what the surprise will be. 3.0 G5s? G5 notebooks? iPonies?
  • 60GB on the go??? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Soulfarmer ( 607565 ) * on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:38AM (#9322461) Homepage Journal
    I mean, if someone has, like myself, that much music available... wouldn't it be more more handy to store it on a computer than with the player? Player breaks up, bye bye music and so on. And is the extra capacity really worth the price?
    I usually tend to think the player's storage capacity in relation to how much music I would be needing before having a chance to load other music to the player thingy. 60gb?? 4gb Creative Muvo sounds about right in that sense.
  • by srcosmo ( 73503 ) <ultramegatronNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:41AM (#9322480) Journal
    Will this new iPod have any other features? I picked up an iRiver iHP 120 [amazon.com] last month for a good $50 (Canadian) less than the similar-capacity iPod, and the iRiver has optical in/out, direct encoding to MP3 or WAV, OGG Vorbis support, USB 2.0, and an FM tuner.

    Does Apple have any plans to beef up their offerings, or are they counting on consumers to keep paying for the iPod's hipster image?

  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:42AM (#9322487)
    The price of small-factor drives on the retail market have such a markup that their are actually some music players out there that have a street price lower than the street price of the drive that they contain inside... this is possible because the device-makers are buying the drives on the wholesale market in bulk rather than one at a time.

    But it brings up an interesting point... right now there are far more digital music players out there on the market than there are makers of small-factor HDs.
  • Re:Enough is Enough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:43AM (#9322492) Homepage Journal
    So you only listen to 50 songs on a regular basis. Wouldn't it be cool if you had every song you'd ever owned available on the fly? When you know precisely the right song for this exact mood, and it's right there, that's pretty awesome.

    Do you need it? Of course not. You don't really need any of this. It's entertainment. You need your insulin shots, or your defibrillator.

    Some people really, really, really like to have all their music with them all the time. (Not me. I don't listen to music. But I have many friends who do.) It only takes a few hundred thousand of 'em to make it worthwhile for Apple to make this.
  • Woohoo! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tm2b ( 42473 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:43AM (#9322495) Journal
    My music collection is about 1500 CDs... I ripped them to AIFFs in iTunes and compress to other formats as necessary, as codecs (esp. Lame and Quicktime) improve (I use iTunes-Lame [blacktree.com] for MP3 compression). This translates to about 160 GB of 160 Kbps AACs. So this is big news for me - I'll be able to fit everything on 3 iPods instead of 4.

    I'll be really psyched when 80 GBs are available, and then (dream dream) it'll take a 160 GB iPod to make me really, really happy.

    This might not seem like a big deal, but when I'm travelling, especially when I'm flying my Cherokee 180-D across country, I won't be able to anticipate what I'll really want to listen to - and I invariably want to hear something that I didn't bring along.

    And if you think iPods are expensive, you should price avionics on an airplane. Or really just about anything on an airplane.
  • Re:Enough is Enough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by niko9 ( 315647 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:44AM (#9322500)
    Do you listen to 3:05 minute pop songs? I don't. I have a alllot of classical music I would love to take with me. They take up alot of space.
  • Drives? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheOtherKiwi ( 743507 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:46AM (#9322509) Homepage Journal
    Anyone notice that "Lee noted that Toshiba is currently shipping 350,000" but Apple are stepping up production from 800,000 to 1,000,000 per month...where are all the other drives sourced from?
  • Pricing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by maelstrom ( 638 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:47AM (#9322513) Homepage Journal
    So is Apple ever going to drop the pricing on the other models when they come out with more "advanced" ones?

  • by achurch ( 201270 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:48AM (#9322522) Homepage

    Something I've always wondered: just how resistant are these HDs to (physical) shocks? If you drop an iPod while it's reading from the disk, for example, will it still work or will you be left with a worthless chunk of metal and plastic? Portable devices tend to get a lot of wear and tear, so I'd tend to stay away from anything using such a seemingly fragile storage medium.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:49AM (#9322527)
    I totally agree. All of my music only takes up 25% of my 20GB iPod. Most of the rest is a backup of my home directory, plus a smallish bootable OS X system and a few apps.

    It's not the fastest firewire drive on the turnpike, but it rocks in terms of dual-use. Came in quite handy when I wanted to repartition and put Yellow Dog Linux alongside OS X on my Powerbook.
  • With all of its other innovations (ie, the Macintosh), Apple sets itself up so that no one else can easily copy its unique design features. For example, MacOS has always had vastly better usability than anything else. It has taken years for MS Windows and KDE to catch up. That hasn't given Apple any kind of market dominance, but a lot of people still believe that if you buy a Mac, stuff just works and is easy and intuitive, and they're more right about that than with any other computer system type.

    The iPod is a different thing. It's just a music player with some storage and a cool look. It's the kind of thing that can be designed fairly easily. It requires the iTunes service, but that's also something which any company can set up for not too much money. I guess it gives Apple some "cred" but it also sets Apple up to be priced out of the market when iPod-like things become commodities. Just wondering... Do any iPod users have thoughts on this?

    ---------
    WML porn [steamymobile.com] - you must have a WML-capable browser like Opera to click that link

  • Audio books (Score:2, Interesting)

    by F. Mephit ( 720161 ) <fmephit.twowhitestripes@com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:53AM (#9322543) Homepage
    Of course, 60 gigabytes won't be easy to fill with .mp3 files. I've got maybe 250 CDs collected over the years, and with every one of them ripped I've yet to fill half of my 30 Gb iPod. Until I started collecting audio books. The real utility of a .mp3 player with that much capacity is the ability to hold multible audio books [audible.com] and audio periodicals. I've come to realize how nice it is to have something to listen to while I'm on break or on a flight that isn't the 30-favorite songs that everyone ends up playing no matter how many .mp3 files they've got. Audio book files are quite large, and to be able to store them and your collection of music files requires drives big enough to be pretty much overkill for music alone.
  • Re:Too much space! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by midifarm ( 666278 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:54AM (#9322547) Homepage
    Not everyone uses iPods strictly for music. I remeber reading several articles about how the guys filming the LOTR trilogy used iPods to transport video footage shot in the field to their editing stations offsite. They work just like a HD, at least on OSX. So having 60GB of storage especially for video or possibly high-end digital cameras or even audio would be very useful, especially since it can be a multi-use device.

    Peace

  • Gyroscopic effect (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 03, 2004 @12:58AM (#9322565)
    It's already pretty annoying to use a 40 GB iPod compared to the smaller ones, just due to the larger rotating mass of the hard drive. You can definitely feel the difference. If the 60 GB drive has even more platters/rotational speed than the 40, then I'd say "no, thanks" to it for that reason alone.

    Who the hell has 60 GB of (legally acquired) .MP3 files, anyway?
  • by zymano ( 581466 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:01AM (#9322577)
    You can buy hard drives with rebates for under $50 now. What's going on with the prices ?These microdrives are sexy but the cost $150-200 to manufacture. I don't mind carrying a slightly larger 20 gig model if it's priced right.
  • Re:Pricing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by drewness ( 85694 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:02AM (#9322582) Homepage
    Well, the way it's worked to now at least is that there are three pricepoints: $299, $399, $499. Currently they are 15GB, 20GB, 40GB. I think last time around they were 10GB, 15GB, and 20GB. So, basically they keep the price the same and shift keep growing the size. Next round could be maybe 20GB, 40GB, 60GB.
  • by seanadams.com ( 463190 ) * on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:04AM (#9322596) Homepage
    In the past, Apple has negotiated "exclusives" on certain high-demand-although-merely-incremental technologies. A good example would be the Cinema display when it first came out - for at least a year it was the only decent hires (>= 1600x1024) panel you could buy.

    It wouldn't surprise me if we see the same thing with higher capacity mini-HDs. Apple's surely willing to pay some premium to be the only ones who can ship a 60G mp3 player.
  • Re:Use for 60GB HD (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lavaface ( 685630 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:12AM (#9322627) Homepage
    saving your music as in a lossless format uses approx. 5x as much space as a 256kb MP3.

    You should be able to do better than that. A cd is 1411(?) kbps. Apple Lossless comes in at about half that so really we're talking 3x as much space max.

  • Re:Woohoo! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tm2b ( 42473 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:15AM (#9322635) Journal
    Wait a minute - you have 1500 CDs ripped as AIFFs? You have more invested in hard drives than I do in my car.
    Well, with all due respect you don't have a very pricy car then - you'll probably spend more on gas this year. It takes about 900 GB, which costs about $1000, or about $.66 per CD. Worth it, I think, for being able to be totally random access in bulk.

    I also keep another 900 GB offline in a storage unit as a backup. I do not want to have to rerip. So that's a surcharge of $1.33 per CD, which means that my music infrastructure is done. I never have to worry about it again, modulo replacing harddrives and reencoding to new codecs, at least until 5.1/SACD/DVD-Audio/Whatever mature as audio formats with the whole software ecology around them evolving.
    Why don't you encode all those AIFFs into Apple Lossless? You'll drop file sizes 40-50% and still be able to losslessly transcode into whatever without having to rerip.
    It's tempting, but I don't like that I'd have to use an Apple closed source tool to access the data. Right now, I can convert my AIFFs on any system with a C compiler and a firewire port, so it's safer format. That decision will change if I can ever get source for something that will decode ALE back to WAV of AIFF.

    Similarly, I don't use the other lossless encoders because they're not supported in iTunes/iPod, my preferred music playback platforms.
  • by SEE ( 7681 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:16AM (#9322645) Homepage
    What are you going to do with your terabyte iPod?
  • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:18AM (#9322653) Journal
    their are actually some music players out there that have a street price lower than the street price of the drive that they contain inside...

    Well, actually it looks like it was just a matter of Creative Labs eating the extra cost of the CF drives to get the units out the door on-time.

    Almost immediately, the CF card disappeared, and it was replaced with an identical-looking hard drive with only an IDE interface (not really a CF card).

    If you've got an example of any other MP3 players selling for less than the cost of the drive alone, I'll eat my words...
  • by JebusIsLord ( 566856 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:22AM (#9322678)
    at LAME 3.96 --alt-preset standard (average ~200kbps for perceptually transparent music), I can get roughly 300 CDs onto about 15 GB, so about 1200 CDs is your answer I guess. That's a lot, but not unheard of.
  • Re:Too much space! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SYFer ( 617415 ) <syfer@syf e r . n et> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:23AM (#9322682) Homepage
    Insightful indeed. As long as the form factor remains =, then all increases in capacity are inherently good. Even if you're one of those "I simply don't NEED more space" surrender monkeys, you could at least use the space to save backups of all your vital files so, should your house burn while you're out biking around you'll have a remote backup that survives.

    Mo cap is better always.

  • Re:Too much space! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:24AM (#9322691)
    A larger capacity drive doesn't cost any more to make, so they might as well keep up with technology and keep the product line fresh. Ever notice that you can't buy a 10G drive anymore? Drive space goes for about $0.50 / gig, and that would only work out to $5 which is not doable. If apples doesn't offer a 60gig drive just because it's pointless, the other guy will because it doesn't cost them much extra.

    Maybe Apple will also join the video bandwagon as they step up to the bigger drives?

  • Re:iPod and UFS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:32AM (#9322738) Journal
    What we don't know is that the file system that the iPod uses is UFS,

    No, in fact it's well-known that the iPod is using HFS+. It was a big issue when the iPod first came out, because Linux users were hoping to use it, and Linux has HFS support (but not HFS+).

    As for the Windows version of the iPod, I would imagine it's using FAT32, but I don't know that. I find it highly unlikely that Apple would write a UFS filesystem driver for Windows, just for their iPod.

    Personally, I would much prefer if they DID use UFS, since UFS is found on every major OS, except Windows. It would be nice to see a Windows UFS driver, so people's external hard drives would not be limited to slow, nasty, fragmenting, wasteful FAT32.

    Everyone else has already said that UFS is the BSD-licensed Unix Filesystem, so I'll just skip that part...
  • by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @01:33AM (#9322741) Homepage
    The problem with the iRiver iHP 1x0 players is that they lack DRM. I'm currently leaning toward an iPod because of this. Most of my use will be for music I rip from CD, but I would like the option of buying the occasional single track from one of the online stores, when I don't like enough on an album to justify buying a CD.

    Also, the iPod works with Audible.com. The iRiver does not.

  • by TintinX ( 569362 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:08AM (#9322891) Homepage
    Rumours of a truly next gen multimedia iPod have been circulating for some time now.
    People asking who could possibly need 60GB for music storage (by the way, I can't fit all my music library on my 40GB model) are possibly missing the point of the need for greater storage capacity.
    Sure, 60GB is a lot of 6MB music files, but it it's a whole lot fewer movie files.
    Personally, I think a fully multimedia iPod would no longer be an iPod, but I'm sure that Apple would find it hard not to capitalise on its mega-brand if the potential market for such devices ever became widespread enough.
  • Re:Enough is Enough (Score:3, Interesting)

    by YouHaveSnail ( 202852 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:24AM (#9322954)
    Yes it can be used for backup purposes. But...

    Backup purposes? Why backup onto an iPod? Hell, I don't see why you wouldn't install all the tools you need to work and carry your office around in your pocket, ready to go at home, at the office, or wherever you find a Mac. In short, the iPod gives you a lot of the portability of a laptop in a much more portable form factor.

    The fact that it's a great music player too is almost a fringe benefit.

    Yes, there are other small FireWire drives on the market, such as the FireLite drives. They're cheaper than an iPod, but they're larger, not as comfortable in the pocket, and they're lousy music players.
  • Re:Enough is Enough (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:27AM (#9322964) Homepage
    From a biological stand point when you get something like diabetes, it's time for you to check out and no longer contribute to the gene pool

    Not necessarily. It has been suggested that the genes responsible for autoimmunity also serve to protect the body against some forms of cancer, in that they make the immune system more likely to attack cells which look slightly abnormal.

    If this hypothesis is correct -- to my knowledge there hasn't been any direct evidence in either direction -- then autoimmunity might be a positive genetic trait, since it's much easier to replace a few hormones (insulin, thyroxine, etc.) than it is to detect and eliminate cancer.
  • by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:38AM (#9323005)
    There are two ways of exploiting Moore's Law.: iether getting more Mbytes or MHz in the same package or achieiving previous size/speed with smaller parts or less power at a lower price. I doubt I'll ever buy an ipod, but I expect most people would rather have a smaller/cheaper/longer playing ipod than one that can store 60GB.
  • by pyota ( 130268 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:42AM (#9323021)
    well, the zen still fits in my pocket and i'd much rather drop a metal encased device on concrete than a plastic one ..
  • by CaptainCheese ( 724779 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:46AM (#9323039) Journal
    your plan has merits, but one colossal drawback.

    The iPod's most serious drawback is its battery life. The biggest power drain on the iPod is when it spins up the HD to load new files. Encoding all your music into a lossless format will cause it to access the HD multiple times for each song, in most cases.

    Therefore filling your ipod with losslessly encoded files and then playing them will flatten the battery at a very fast pace indeed.

    The best use of 60gig iPod drive is to use it to store other large files - avi files for example...
  • Extra features (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Grimace1975 ( 618039 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:49AM (#9323053)
    two enhancements to the ipod, the first is easy, second.. not so easy.

    firstly, a sandisk memory block that clips into the back. It would double as the stream buffer and also an easy way to transfer large amounts of music from one pod to another instintaniously. This one would be for those people who "jack in" to each others ipods at crosswalks and stuff. Imagine swaping tastes in music simply by switching memory blocks with someonelse. (not completly legal, but admitily something i would enjoy experiencing).

    Secondly, a SuperVideo out with Divx Decoding, using a upgradable decoding chip/module.

    -- Grimace1975
  • Re:You mean? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by sniepre ( 517796 ) <sniepre@gmail.com> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @02:49AM (#9323055) Homepage
    Or,
    "You mean I have to trade in my Creative Zen Xtra 60gb and pay so much more for a basically equivilant device?" (pros and cons exist for both, but, I'd say low cost is a major pro-side)

    Hehe.. Actually, I did just get one for a b-day present. They are good overall, I'd rate it as about a 8/10 or so, only because of a few firmware quirks that could be nicer, and the case is designed poorly. (I.e. no window, and strap covers the port you need to charge it.)

    But, for far less $ than the Trendy(TM) equivilant, you can have a device which performs the same if not better, has a user-replacable battery, and looks sexy to boot.

    Link to the Zen Xtra [creative.com]
  • Re:You mean? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 03, 2004 @03:22AM (#9323185)
    cheap plastic case, bulkier, heavier. Yeah that Zen is mighty fine....
  • Re:Woohoo! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tm2b ( 42473 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @03:24AM (#9323198) Journal
    With that amount of music why don't you just put a computer in your plane? Won't have to worry about harddrive space then.
    Funny you should ask...

    That would be very cool, but FAA rules are kind of strange about this sort of thing. If a device is defined to be portable, it's the PIC's (Pilot In Command's) judgment as to whether it can be used in the cockpit safely without interfering with the airworthiness of the aircraft.

    On the other hand, if it's a fixed installation, there's a ton of paperwork and bureacracy that has to be gone through in order to get FAA approval and navigating it correctly is neither quick nor cheap.

    Worse than that, but as a mere pilot, I'm not authorized to do more than minor cosmetic and maintenance tasks on my airplane - I need somebody certified by the FAA to work on avionics in order to work on my panel. And they do not work cheap.

    On top of all that, I do want to be able to take my music library with me in the car too, so portable is preferable to me anyway.
  • Re:Minis.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by teg ( 97890 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @04:36AM (#9323430)

    Hopefully a 60GB iPod will drive the price of the iPod Mini down. At the moment it really doesn't measure up to your standard iPod in terms value for money.

    It sells very well, so some would consider it good value already...

    • It's smaller. When trying to make it fit in a small pocket on your shirt, on your arm etc, smaller is better.
    • If you think of the 4 GB as a cache of the main collection, it can be plenty. It does require good software to manage what is on the device, though.
  • The drive on the iPod is hardly ever in use. It spins up for a few moments every 30 minutes to read 30 minutes worth of music into the buffer.

    That said, I have a flash based player. It is smaller than my headphones, doubles as a USB key, and holds 512 MB. Now all I need is a program that will automatically put fresh MP3s on it when I plug it in to my computer.

  • by alanoneil ( 749691 ) on Thursday June 03, 2004 @11:13AM (#9325839) Homepage
    Almost immediately, the CF card disappeared, and it was replaced with an identical-looking hard drive with only an IDE interface (not really a CF card).

    WRONG! The iPod Mini and the Creative player both use the same Hitachi drive. The drive can be set in one of three modes by the manufacturer: CF, CF/IDE, and IDE. The iPod Mini came off the assembly line in pure IDE mode only, whereas the Creative player shipped initially in CF/IDE mode, which allowed it to be used in digital cameras in CF mode. Then they got smart and fixed the drive to operate in IDE mode only, so newer Creative players will not work in digicams.
  • Re:Too much space! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by stev3 ( 640425 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `repsas'> on Thursday June 03, 2004 @07:46PM (#9330839) Homepage Journal
    Besides the fact that I was referring to the new Apple LOSSLESS format, AAC is superior to MP3 [slashdot.org] at most bit rates.
  • Re:Ground Loop Hum (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aflat362 ( 601039 ) on Friday June 04, 2004 @06:03PM (#9340099) Homepage
    If you got yourself some REALLY GOOD headphones like the shure E3s [music1online.com] I'm using with my iPod you wouldn't need to crank your Archos really loud.

    sound isolating headphones block out background noise eliminating the need to crank the volume. After using these headphones I found it unnecessary to turn it up so loud, an in fact found it annoying to do so as the pain in the ears isn't that fun.

    The link is only to show the phones. They are a rip off at 179. I got mine for $135 US.

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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