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Apple Businesses Hardware

Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again 128

Posted by pudge from the me-likee dept.
An anonymous reader writes "For all of you that have wanted a firm keyboard (like in the old days with mechanical keyswitches) Matias has released the tactilepro keyboard. This keyboard uses the same mechanical keyswitches used in the Apple Extended Keyboard. Alps was going to scrap the keyswitches, so he had to commit to buy 1 million of them. Here's a great review by Adam Engst." It looks absolutely great, and it's only $100 (though apparently backordered until late April).
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Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again More

Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again

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  • FIRST POST!?!!? I really enjoyed these keyboards... But are they really worth that much money? Think of all the ramen noodles I could buy...

  • Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:14PM (#8793842)
    These are the same switches used in the old Northgate Omnikey keyboards. They last forever, and they feel fucking great. A little noisy, similar to the old IBM PC keyboards, but you really do type better when you have auditory feedback.

    You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)

    • Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by h3 ( 27424 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:04PM (#8794507) Homepage Journal
      If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one.

      I have Linux, Windows, and Mac OSX on one (Mac-targetted) keyboard and I have to say it sucks because of the option/alt mapping. On my my Mac, I want the 3rd key from the bottom left to act as command (it does since it's a Mac keyboard), but under Linux/Windows I want it to map to Alt (which it doesn't; the 2nd key does).

      On Linux, the interplay between X and my window manager makes for a mess of an xmodmap file that kinda works for some of the uses of alt. On Windows, I have no idea how to remap keys. I don't use it much so I deal with the awkwardness.

      On a Mac, just get uControl and click a couple of buttons, and you can remap easily.

      So, I would recommend a PC-oriented keyboard in a multi-OS setting. It's just easier to make a Mac deal with it than it is the other way around.

      -h3

      • I should add that another problem with Mac-oriented keyboards is that many (particularly the Apple-branded ones) lack Scroll Lock (Apple uses a "F14" instead). This has dire consequences for those using KVM switches that rely on Scroll Lock to activate features or switching.

        -h3

    • Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Cecil ( 37810 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:41PM (#8794990) Homepage
      You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)

      Alternately, check out the Fujitsu 4725 [accelerated.ca] (which for some reason appears to be a distinctly Canadian thing).

      I've got one, it's beautiful. Based on the IBM Model M technology, which I think Fujitsu licensed or acquired somehow. PS/2 only, which means you need a PS2/USB adapter for it to work with most Macs, but the clickyclicky is very worth it, and unlike the keyboard in the article, it's not backordered and about half the price.

      (Stay the hell away from the Fujitsu 8725, it's model number suggests that it's better, but it's actually a cheap, horribly mushy piece of garbage)

      • adaptors (Score:3, Informative)

        by Onan ( 25162 )
        A word of warning about ps2->usb adaptors: every one I've tried has a bad habit of forgetting about modifier keys that are held down a few seconds with no other keypresses.

        Which sounds like an obscure case, until you're scrolling back in your xterm with shift-pgup... go back a while, pause to read an interesting bit while still holding down shift... hit pgup again and find that you've just sent an unshifted pgup, dumping you back to the bottom of scrollback. Pretty bloody annoying, I found it.

        (Fortunat
      • Our Canadian office orders (or at least ordered) those Fujitsu keyboards exclusively. Made us all jealous when we went up for a visit. Except me, because I have an old Silicon Graphic keyboard that's even heavier, noisier, and faster to type on...
    • Well it's not just the noise. The mechanical keyswitches, like the ones in the IBM Model M, are better for your fingers. I remember reading a report, I wish I could find a link for it, but anyways it was found that the "Quiet-touch" keyboards are bad for your hands. The main reason is lack of mechanical parts to increase the resistance of the keyswitch as it's being depressed. The older, mechanical keyswitches will slow your finger before it stops, while the newer switches will just stop. Almost like
    • Visit Unicomp [pckeyboard.com] or their online store [yahoo.com] for some great keyboards.

      I personally use the Customizer 104 [yahoo.com] at home, and loved it so much I bought one and brought it in for work. They also have a keyboard optimized for Linux [yahoo.com] with the old-style Control, Caps Lock and others placed differently, and no pesky Windows keys.

  • It seems like a great value, and has a feature I actually wrote with pen on my old one (the special characters) Although its cheaper to get a ADB adapter, I think I would purchase one of these before then. But I'm broke.

    And I do feel like I type faster on that keyboard, but that might be poor memory.

    oh... and ep!

    • Re:Seems Promising (Score:3, Informative)

      by HTH NE1 ( 675604 )
      I have ADB keyboards and my primary machine is a Blue & White G3 (upgraded to G4) that still has ADB ports and I still ordered two of these. Mainly because the machine is on a USB KVMA switch and I don't like having to keep so many keyboards around. And that it has a power key on the keyboard is a plus since I had to move the power switch of the B&W to make room for more internal drives than it was designed to accomodate. (The power switch on the G4 Cube's monitor, serving as the B&W's second

  • Keyboards are important (Score:5, Informative)

    by wanerious ( 712877 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:16PM (#8793882) Homepage
    Using my keyboard about 2000 hours per year, I've come to realize the difference between a really good one and a really cheap one. I used a PFU Happy Hacking mini keyboard for 5 years with no problems until it finally started to give out last year. I tried some cheaper brands when I switched from Linux to OS X since PFU didn't make a board with USB plugs. I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets. This one reviewed here is beautiful.

    • I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets.

      I've been looking at those recently. I have no use for a numeric keypad - it just puts the mouse farther away. Does anyone really use the keypad? Do most keyboards have them because they seem more... computerish? (Is everyone else an accountant?)

      • I bought one of those fancy Apple Ergonomic Keyboards with separate numeric keypad when they were introduced. They were just gorgeous: small, good feel and huge hand rests.

        Then I wanted to use MacSOUP as I am used to: with the keypad. So I dug out the box, found the keypad, attached it and found that now my mouse was too far away. Since I could use neither mouse nor keypad with my left hand, I switched back to my old Extended II keyboard which is still in use today - 14 years after I bought it.

      • I have used a Happy Hacking keyboard with my Mac's since the USB version shipped. (Seems like this has been about two years. Do I miss the numeric keypad? Not really, even though I do data analysis. I like the compactness of the Happy Hacking keyboard, its feel, and the fact that it is very similar to the layout of the PowerBook, including the layout of the inverted T cursor cluster with imbedded paging keys.

  • Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:5, Insightful)

    by amichalo ( 132545 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:18PM (#8793898)
    From the photos, this looks just like an Apple Pro Keyboard without the Apple symbol on the COMMAND keys.

    How am I supposed to make a buying decision?

    If the difference is in the engineering, perhaps they need to show some examples of this premium key switch versus some others. I need a way of understanding what the heck is so great about this keyboard.

    I would most easy part with my money if they produced a "dust free" keyboard. Don't look too closely!

    • Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:4, Insightful)

      by phatmatt ( 675145 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:26PM (#8793994)
      The problem is that the difference is all in the feel. The fact that they last so long doesn't really matter.

      They assume that the people buying the keyboard had (or at least typed on) one of the old ADB keyboards and remember how much they liked them.

    • Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That's why product reviews exist.. The one linked from the article is a good review, by someone who really cares about the quality of his keyboard.
    • "From the photos, this looks just like an Apple Pro Keyboard without the Apple symbol on the COMMAND keys."

      I see the Apple command symbol on it. What photo are you looking at?
      • he said no _apple_ symbol, not no apple _command_ symbol... i still remember when people used to call that key "open-apple" [though not quite old enough to remember first-hand when its opposite on the keyboard was "closed-apple", a filled-in logo]... try looking at its command key and one on a picture of a real apple keyboard for comparison if you still don't know what i mean

        • Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequence (Score:4, Informative)

          by HTH NE1 ( 675604 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @06:02PM (#8797623)
          Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe, generated the same signals as button 1 and button 2 on joysticks and paddles. Control-OpenApple-Reset restarted the machine, Control-ClosedApple-Reset put it into self test mode. (Encountered a problem a user had where Control-Reset would always cause a reboot. Turned out to be a stuck button on the joystick.)

          Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs which used an ADB keyboard but with Control next to the A and Caps Lock small and below the Shift key. (Nowadays keyboards for computers are arranged more for typing than for programming; if it weren't for Windows, the Control may have gone away entirely by now.) The Reset key lost its label. Command and Option were still the same game I/O button signals. Forced reboot became Control-Command-Reset.

          Macs came to call Reset the Power key, as pressing it would cause the computer to power up unlike the IIgs, but they still had the triangle symbol as the IIgs used. The restart sequence became known as Control-Command-Power. Eventually morphed into a power button with the c- symbol on its back. Then it vanished from the keyboard entirely.

          What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
          • Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe

            Ah! I'm shocked that people would forget that the apple keys were introduced on the Apple III. The IIe came later.

            Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs

            This is _sort_ of correct, but skims over some things.

            The option key was introduced on the Apple Lisa (which had a closed apple key as well). The Macintosh then kept the option key, but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often (it was used in Lisa
            • However, the Lisa and Macintosh keyboards both had closed apple symbols.

              The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.

              Susan Kare [kare.com] was asked to pick an abstract symbol. She found a sweedish campground map symbol [folklore.org] that's been in use ever since.

              I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q". :)

              (The IIgs keyb
              • The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.

                I stand corrected, though I admit, I could've sworn that one had crept in there by the time the Mac Plus keyboard had shown up.

                (The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)

                Well... at least by the time I was in the business of selling Macs, none of them but Performas and laptops came with any kind of keyboard. You had to seperately buy whichever sort you like

              • The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit".


                While I'm one of those bristly purists myself, I do find it pretty silly for Apple to have chosen to give this key two symbols, neither one of which is its name.
              • The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q". :)

                Bah! They will always be "open-apple" and "closed-apple" to me! (Apple owner since //e.)

                - Jasen.
            • I stand corrected. I still haven't encountered a Lisa and only seen an Apple III in person but briefly.

              Another note: the Open Apple and Closed Apple glyphs also lived in the MouseText characters available on the enhanced Apple //e and the IIgs, and likely on the //c+. I suspect they're present on the //c, and they may be available on models of the III. AppleWorks (the original) used them on-screen.

              The command / propeller / flower / swedish campground feature symbol AFAIK never made it into MouseText be
            • but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often

              Thinking about this from a trademark standpoint, this would make sense. Using the corporate logo as a command key makes every program seeking to display this key in menus getting branded with the Apple logo out of functional necessity, but could be misconstrued by the unwashed masses as an official endorsement of the software by Apple. Using something else eliminates such an implied endorsement. And not putting third-party applicatio
          • > What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
            According to this [apple.com] it's Control-Command-Eject. I've used that with Jaguar. It doesn't seem to work with Panther. But maybe my computer is foobar'd!
    • Well, the keys do bow in instead of out, unless they changed the apple pro keyboard. I always thought they should bow in like most pc-oriented keyboards, but never knew why.

  • news? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by edalytical ( 671270 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:25PM (#8793975)
    While the tactilepro is a very cool keyboard. This story is a little late, I'm looking at an ad for one in my old December 2003 Macworld. Nevertheless, Matias deserves support, the one downside to the Mac is you can't go pick up and old keyboard at flee market that the seller doesn't know the value of. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy one. Although by that time I may need to buy a ergonomic keyboard. This Kensington Keybord-in-a-box is killing me.

  • Kensington Studioboard (Score:5, Informative)

    by Watts Martin ( 3616 ) <layotl&gmail,com> on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:33PM (#8794081) Homepage

    Kensington has been selling a $90 keyboard like this for about a year now called the Studioboard -- in fact, it looks identical to the tactilepro keyboard, save that Kensington doesn't put the option and shift-option symbols on the keys. (I'm not sure whether the information value of that truly outweighs the clutter, but I know that's awfully subjective.)

    I don't know whether Kensington uses the Alps switches, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of these keyboards are actually OEMed by the same company. It looks like Matias has just done a much better job of promotion than Kensington did. I've had one of the Studioboards for nearly six months now (I bought it when I bought my G5, a purchase in a moment of weakness at the Panther release party--10% off! Now it's only overpriced! Shiny!) and it's been great so far.

    • Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:4, Informative)

      by Ineffable 27 ( 203704 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @03:37PM (#8795658)
      Blatant karma whoring alert!

      Here's the product page for this keyboard: link [kensington.com].

      • Why, exactly, is this karma whoring? Unless I'm mistaken, which could be a possibility, he didn't copy any text from your URL. He was merely writing what he knew about the Kensington Studioboard.

        I'm not trying to confrontational. I'm merely curious.
    • Strange... I also bought a G5 during the Panther release party due to the 10% off moment of weekness. Mind you I love it and now hardly boot up my PC but I was wondering if anyone had the same weekness in the store that I did. When I bought my G5 they gave me the Pro User Card (now useless other than looking pretty) and the number was 0066, which to me said they had only sold 66 G5's. I would have thought they would have sold more at that point.
  • If they'd found a way to provide the same feel as the AEK but with little noise, I might've thought it worth it to buy it. As it is, I value quiet more than feel, since I don't have any issues with my APK. Still, if I find one in existence to demo, maybe I'd give it a try. Those old keyboards were pretty sweet.

  • Favorite kbds (Score:4, Interesting)

    by naChoZ ( 61273 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:42PM (#8794171) Homepage Journal
    Personally, my favorite keyboard was always the old fashioned metal keyboard that looks like this one [att.net]. It could take a major beating, but the keys had such a nice action that I could really fly on it. I've seen some clones for pc's now, but they sure are pricey...

    My other favorite was a natural style PC Concepts keyboard with the built in touchpad. I'd love to have one just like that again only with all the fancy extra buttons you see on keyboards now. I refuse to buy a Microsoft one since they can't even adhere to standards in a simple keyboard layout and the 6 is on the wrong side. I just can't get used to that. Hell, I don't feel like I should *have* to get used to it anyway!

  • Wow! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by geoffeg ( 15786 ) <geoffeg AT sloth DOT org> on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:45PM (#8794217) Homepage
    $100? I'd rather stick with my IBM Model M (the old clicky clacky keyboard) which only cost me $20 at a junk store. Now if there was only a way to get an Apple Key on it!

    • Re:Wow! (Score:2)

      by GiMP ( 10923 )
      I love my model:m too, but I am aware the day will come that I will need a ps/2->usb adapter or find a usb keyboard (like this one)
  • I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't get it. What is special about this keyboard?
    • Spring loaded hyper-clicky goodness. This is basically an IBM Model M with the awesome "Apple Look". God I want one...
      • OK, guess this one had better be debunked.

        The Apple Extended Keyboard DID NOT use the same keyswitches as the IBM keyboards. It had a bit softer feel (I always thought those old IBM KBs were a bit jarring to the fingers) and was MUCH quieter.

        You could actually be in a room with one, and not think somebody was being machinegunned.

        In my opinion, the Apple Extended Keyboard II was not only the best KB ever built by Apple, but the best KB every built - period.

    • Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:5, Informative)

      by gerardrj ( 207690 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:13PM (#8794634) Journal
      Apple, back in the ADB days, produced several keyboards for systems. There was a small keyboard that lacked function keys and had the escape key placed just right of the space bar, this was called the "Apple keyboard II". It was a very nice keyboard for use on servers or in tight quarters, there's almost no extra frame around the keys and the thing is very small and light. The sort of thing people would purchase today as an add-on keyboard for a laptop.
      There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard", which included a full set of function keys (F1 - F15), two complete sets of modifier keys (control, option, command, shift), had a full set of navigation keys (home, end, ins, etc) and a proper layout for the directional arrows, and there were LEDs to display the status of caps and the other "locks". The ergonomics were improved with a 4 step incline adjustment and lots of spacing between sets of keys (function, alpha/num, numpad, nav, arrows). Basically the extended keyboard was a 101 key PC style keyboard built to Apple standards, and like a tank.

      The extended keyboard has a very distinct feel, there is a significant amount of travel in the keys, so your fingers actually have to move to press them down and it's difficult to accidentally press a key without being difficult to hit the one you intend. Since the key switches are mechanical, there's a satisfying tactile response when you move the key and the switch connects, you can feel and hear that you are typing a character. This may not mean much to the people that "hunt and peck", but for touch typests, there's a rythm to typing and many times you can tell when you've messed something up just by listening to the rythym of the keys.

      I should note that the extended keyboard is large, is has almost an inch of plastic around the left bottom and right of the keys, and several inches at the top where you could place templates for the function keys for different applications. It also weighs almost as much as am iBook.

      I love the extended keyboard, and when I get my G5, I'll also be getting a USB-ADB adapter so I can use the extended keyboard on the new machine. I don't like the lightweight, light touch, short stroke keyboards Apple ships with the current systems, not at all.

    • Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ethelred Unraed ( 32954 ) * on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:15PM (#8794663) Journal
      Mainly the feel of using it. The "extended" in the name refers to the fact that it's a full 105-key keyboard [yimg.com] (Apple used to also make a smaller keyboard [yimg.com] lacking the page up/down, extra command/option and F keys, IIRC usually sold with the SE and LC computers), so in that regard it's nothing special compared to a standard PC keyboard.

      But the actual use of it was great, because of the tactile feedback (the keys sort of clicked just at the moment the input actually was sent -- sounds trivial, but on more modern computers it's a little lacking) and the audible "click" the keys made was also nice to have as an audible feedback (if you're transcribing texts and can't look at the screen, that's helpful).

      So it's a lot of little stuff. Not something for everyone -- I sure as hell wouldn't go so far as to shell out $90 for it, and am satisfied with my current Apple USB keyboard with the G5 -- but some people really need that.

      I do like the additional labels on the keys, though -- something that's sorely lacking on Apple's newer keyboards (especially the non-US ones).

      My question is, does it come in non-American layouts? From what I saw on the site and article, there was no mention of other layouts at all. (The physical layout is usually the same, just the keys are rearranged and in some cases labelled differently for special characters.)

      Cheers,

      Ethelred

      • On a related note, back before when I had used Macs some company had some tiny stickers to go on the front vertical face of the keys that had the extended characters on them. i.e. the characters you type with the option key. That way you didn't have to bring up keycaps to see what keys to get weird European characters. (Even more of a pain now in Panther now that keycaps is gone -- you have to get the international menu up with its ass ugly non-anti-aliased flags) Anyone know if anyone makes those stick
        • Anyone know if anyone makes those stickers?

          You could make them yourself with transparent Avery labels and any old inkjet or laser printer. Don't know if the toner would rub off, but you could try spraying the printed surface of the labels with spray fix (any office supply or art supply would have that) or cheap aerosol hair spray (that acts as a fixative as well) and letting it dry a while before putting them on your keys.

          Cheers,

          Ethelred

        • KeyCaps is gone? I have it here in my Jaguar 10.2.8 install. Are you saying that when I upgrade to Panther, I should put KeyCaps to one side beforehand? (A la Disk Copy, Internet pref pane, and Clock?)
          • KeyCaps is gone? I have it here in my Jaguar 10.2.8 install. Are you saying that when I upgrade to Panther, I should put KeyCaps to one side beforehand? (A la Disk Copy, Internet pref pane, and Clock?)

            In a word: yup.

            You can get back the same functionality by activating the Keyboard menu -- which takes up real estate in the menu bar and has no other purpose for most people. This is yet another UI decision since OS X came out where a lot of people had to ask WTF Apple was thinking...

            Cheers,

            Ethelred

  • It's a subjective evaluation. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by trudyscousin ( 258684 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:55PM (#8794367)
    Not to take anything away from the Matias keyboard, but the current Apple keyboard is entirely satisfactory. Besides having a decent feel (the keys have a nice detent that provides tactile feedback), it's easy to clean on the top, and doesn't collect hair or other debris below its circuit board. Costs about half what the Matias keyboard costs, as well. No, you can't adjust the tilt as you could with the Extended Keyboard and the Extended Keyboard II, but I never used that facility anyway.

    On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know. But on the other hand, having endured six years of some of the worst Apple keyboard designs ever (beginning with the original iMac), perhaps anything is an improvement.
    • having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k

      Even the MacXL keyboard? I'm impressed.
    • > On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to
      > that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know.

      Man, I still remember that hollow-echo noise that the original Macintosh 128k keyboard made. It was like typing in the shower.

      The old Apple Extended keyboards were a little better since the Pro Keyboard (black keys) is a little squishy. I might pick up one of these new ones. Plus the Pro Keyboard seems to want to store crumbs and stuff inside it. I guess all keyboards do this, but the cl

  • Sun keyboard (Score:4, Informative)

    by AmicoToni ( 123984 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @01:55PM (#8794372)
    There is another option for an excellent keyboard with the Alt/Command keys in the right place for a Mac user: a Sun keyboard.
    I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:

    http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process= SunStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&boxid=%2523320-1271 [sun.com]
    or apparently here [amessciences.com] for $40.

    You can even use the extra keys on Linux. [uni-passau.de]
    Here's a picture. [lucksnet.or.jp]
    • I use the Type 6 here at work, and I like the feel of the keys when typing, but the key placement drives me crazy. The "`" and "\" keys are where the backspace key normally is, and backspace is immediately above the enter key. Caps Lock and control trade places from the usual keyboards. The craftsmenship of the keyboard isn't any better or worse than what I'm used to. I would say that if you're around Sun systems all of the time, the Type 6 would probably be a welcome interface for your home machine, bu
      • You are probably using a keyboard with an ANSI layout (Item #320-1273, or equivalent national variations). If you get the keyboard #320-1271, you get the standard PC layout. Which is good. :)
        • Ah yes, it could very well be an ANSI version. If the keys map properly, I'm sure it would make a decent Mac keyboard, as the "diamond" key could probably act as the command key and just about everything else would be similar. I'm not sure how the keys on the left would be mapped (the "cut," "paste," "undo," key, etc.).

  • Only $100? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:00PM (#8794443)
    I saw these keyboards on sale at Dr. Bott a long time ago and honestly the cost threw me for a loop. $100 is way too much for any keyboard, even a bluetooth one, which this is not.

    This may be a very nice keyboard, but to me, it can't be $100 worth of nice. I'm personally eyeing an iceKey to replace my pro keyboard. The only reason I haven't bought one is that $50 seems a bit much for a keyboard.

    Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered.

    • Re:Only $100? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SoCalChris ( 573049 )
      For someone who types all day for a living, $100 for a good keyboard that is comfortable to use and will last for several years is a bargain.

      Do you ever hear about mechanics bitching that their Snap-On tools are too much money because they can get similar tools at Wal-Mart for a fraction the price?

    • Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered

      The best keyboard I bought was the Apple Adjustable Keyboard back in the days of ADB connectors. This cost me 168 (at the time around $250-300) and was worth every penny. It used the same Alps switches in it and the feel was fantastic. If I was in the market for a keyboard I would take a serious look at this.

      I'm currently typing on a Dell keyboard. This is a membrane based one and has a similar feel to the

  • How do these Alps keyswitches differ from the buckling leaf spring ones that you can get on, say, the models from PCKeyboard.com [yahoo.com]?

    Regardless, if I had a Mac I'd buy one of those suckers in a second. I desperately miss the old clickety-clack of the Keyboards of Ancient Past. :(

  • Got them in Dvorak? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TwistedKestrel ( 550054 ) <twistedkestrel@gmail.com> on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:15PM (#8794670) Journal
    Even though I'm a PC user, this article makes me look down at my old-ish Toshiba keyboard and wonder.

    Does anybody know of a company that makes really high quality Dvorak keyboards?
  • Looking at this story makes me realise that I need a new keyboard, but I'm using a PC -- are there any PC keyboards "built like a tank" that I could pick up brand new too?

  • Awesome, indeed! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chief Typist ( 110285 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @02:58PM (#8795213) Homepage
    I have one of these keyboards -- the feel is awesome and it lets me type VERY quickly with few errors. The only downside is the noise. I sometimes have to mute audio iChat while typing because the clackity-clack makes conversation impossible.

    I had a problem with the keyboard about a month after the purchase -- it had a "5" and an "a" key that would sometimes double-up or not fire. Like Adam says in his review, this isn't uncommon at the beginning of the product's life. And the customer service at Matias didn't ask any questions and provided an RMA quickly.

    In fact, using the Apple Pro keyboard while it's out for an exchange, is really hard now. It feels INCREDIBLY soft.

    So, in spite of some problem keys, I highly recommend this product.

    And to those cheap bastards who are saying: "$100 WTF?" -- ask yourself these questions: "How much time in a year do you spend at this keyboard? Is it worth a quarter a day to have a nice input device?" A comfy chair and keyboard are essential to my work environment.

    -ch

  • Now if only (Score:2, Interesting)

    by obirt ( 713598 )
    they could make the keys partly translucent and add a backlight...

  • Apple needs to (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MoneyT ( 548795 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @03:12PM (#8795382) Journal
    figure out a way to get the keyboards they use on their TiBooks into a desktop style keyboard. After getting used to typing on this keyboards I can't stand using any other keyboard.
  • Could I get this and have it work on my PC? Having the two extra USB plugs, as well as the 'wet' look of the keyboard would be sweet! I'm serious! I want one for my PC! Is it 'Plug and Play' compatible?
  • They did an amazing job of making the keyboard look like a current Apple Pro Keyboard. It looks, at least from the pictures, just like the keyboard I'm using right now. Kudos for that!

    The lack of mechanical switches has always been my complaint against the keyboards you can find now. And, maybe someone can help me out here, but weren't the Extended keyboards renowned for being built like a tank -- i.e., you couldn't break them if you tried?

    I like the Apple Pro keyboard, but I loved the Extended keybo

  • Hmm. I actually prefer the opposite, like a laptop keyboard....

    Very short keytravel, and very quiet with keys close together so my fingers don't need to move very far...

    I am just odd though... :)

    It's one reason I like my Apple Pro keyboards as they feel more like a laptop keyboard than the ones that I have at my PCs at work...
    • I feel exactly the same way, I have had a Pismo for four years, and using the new Apple Pro Keyboard at work, my fingers get tired from having to press down so far.

      Any way to rig a Aluminum PowerBook keyboard for home use?

      -jg
    • MacAlly has something similar: IceKey [macally.com]

  • MicroConnectors Mac Keyboards... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WiseWeasel ( 92224 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @05:06PM (#8796855)
    I have been using a MicroConnectors keyboard for a couple years, and I must say it's been very satisfying. The keys have great feel and action, they click nicely (pretty loudly for some), and it's laid out exactly like the AEK II, with power button and everything (that no longer works to power on Macs since the G5, but can still bring up the shut down dialog while the computer is running). They go for around $50 online, and come in different colors, though I believe some colors are discontinued, and pretty hard to find. Graphite color is still available, and looks fine. The only complaint I've had is that the power key is pretty flimsy, and it WILL break off after a while, though I never use it (leave my Mac on 24/7), so it's not an issue for me. The rest of the keys are sturdy, and this thing has taken a world of abuse over the years, and still works fine. I even had to get another one that's still in its wrapping, for the day when this one gives up the ghost. For a great feel that won't break the bank, MicroConnectors is definitely the best option available for us Mac users, and I've tried them all (you suck MacAlly!). Unfortunately, I haven't seen them in stores, so the only option is to get them online, without trying them first. Comparatively, the recent Apple ones are incredibly mushy, to the point of being a pain to use.
  • All it needs to make it complete is an auto-sensing backlight to aid use in a dark room (something like the backlight on the new Powerbooks)...

  • Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drok ( 78225 ) on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @07:14PM (#8798389)
    I am still a fan of the venerable Saratoga Apple keyboard.

    Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.

    I *really* *really* wish they would use that extra room in the 17" powerbook to put in an ergonomic keyboard... (I'll live with just the slant, and do without the tilt...)

    -Robert

    • Re:Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:4, Insightful)

      by eggboard ( 315140 ) * on Wednesday April 07, 2004 @09:46PM (#8799481) Homepage
      What killed ergonomic keyboards? Lawyers, sort of. Our U.S. legal system makes the fact that you sell a product that is "safer" (for some people) a factor in litigation against the "dangerous" old keyboards. So my understanding is that many companies, even those successfully selling ergonomic keyboards, were convinced to stop to avoid huge trolling lawsuits from users of older or simultaneous non-ergonomic keyboards.
    • Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.

      Same issue, same wish here.

      FYI: While it's pretty far from an Apple product, the best ergo keyboard I've yet to try is the Logitech wireless. Beats the MS Natural Keyboard for comfort and key response.

      Combine that with an original (late 90s) MS Intellimouse trackball and a Leap chair from Steelcase, and you have a recipe

  • So... does the caps lock key lock mechanically, the way the old Apple keyboards did? Or is it another one of those useless pieces of crap that just have an LED and nothing more to indicate what's going on with it.

  • One of the bigger failures of modern keyboards, including the USB Apple keyboards, is the lack of any kind of decent Caps Lock indication. The current Apple keyboards have a green LED on the caps lock key itself. Which is sort of cool, except that if your left hand is actually on the keyboard, you can't tell if you've got Caps Lock engaged or not (my hands are opaque). IIRC, the Apple Extended Keyboard II (what made a II a II, anyway?), had a Caps Lock key that stuck down when activated. It definitely a

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