Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again 128
An anonymous reader writes "For all of you that have wanted a firm keyboard (like in the old days with mechanical keyswitches) Matias has released the tactilepro keyboard. This keyboard uses the same mechanical keyswitches used in the Apple Extended Keyboard. Alps was going to scrap the keyswitches, so he had to commit to buy 1 million of them. Here's a great review by Adam Engst." It looks absolutely great, and it's only $100 (though apparently backordered until late April).
Can you type faster on those? (Score:2, Funny)
Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Informative)
You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)
Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Insightful)
I have Linux, Windows, and Mac OSX on one (Mac-targetted) keyboard and I have to say it sucks because of the option/alt mapping. On my my Mac, I want the 3rd key from the bottom left to act as command (it does since it's a Mac keyboard), but under Linux/Windows I want it to map to Alt (which it doesn't; the 2nd key does).
On Linux, the interplay between X and my window manager makes for a mess of an xmodmap file that kinda works for some of the uses of alt. On Windows, I have no idea how to remap keys. I don't use it much so I deal with the awkwardness.
On a Mac, just get uControl and click a couple of buttons, and you can remap easily.
So, I would recommend a PC-oriented keyboard in a multi-OS setting. It's just easier to make a Mac deal with it than it is the other way around.
-h3
Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:2)
-h3
Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:5, Informative)
Alternately, check out the Fujitsu 4725 [accelerated.ca] (which for some reason appears to be a distinctly Canadian thing).
I've got one, it's beautiful. Based on the IBM Model M technology, which I think Fujitsu licensed or acquired somehow. PS/2 only, which means you need a PS2/USB adapter for it to work with most Macs, but the clickyclicky is very worth it, and unlike the keyboard in the article, it's not backordered and about half the price.
(Stay the hell away from the Fujitsu 8725, it's model number suggests that it's better, but it's actually a cheap, horribly mushy piece of garbage)
adaptors (Score:3, Informative)
Which sounds like an obscure case, until you're scrolling back in your xterm with shift-pgup... go back a while, pause to read an interesting bit while still holding down shift... hit pgup again and find that you've just sent an unshifted pgup, dumping you back to the bottom of scrollback. Pretty bloody annoying, I found it.
(Fortunat
Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:1)
Re:Think: NORTHGATE! (Score:1)
You can still buy NEW buckling spring keyboards (Score:2)
I personally use the Customizer 104 [yahoo.com] at home, and loved it so much I bought one and brought it in for work. They also have a keyboard optimized for Linux [yahoo.com] with the old-style Control, Caps Lock and others placed differently, and no pesky Windows keys.
Seems Promising (Score:1)
And I do feel like I type faster on that keyboard, but that might be poor memory.
oh... and ep!
Re:Seems Promising (Score:3, Informative)
Keyboards are important (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Keyboards are important (Score:3, Interesting)
I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets.
I've been looking at those recently. I have no use for a numeric keypad - it just puts the mouse farther away. Does anyone really use the keypad? Do most keyboards have them because they seem more... computerish? (Is everyone else an accountant?)
Re:Keyboards are important (Score:3, Informative)
Then I wanted to use MacSOUP as I am used to: with the keypad. So I dug out the box, found the keypad, attached it and found that now my mouse was too far away. Since I could use neither mouse nor keypad with my left hand, I switched back to my old Extended II keyboard which is still in use today - 14 years after I bought it.
Re:Keyboards are important (Score:1)
Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:5, Insightful)
How am I supposed to make a buying decision?
If the difference is in the engineering, perhaps they need to show some examples of this premium key switch versus some others. I need a way of understanding what the heck is so great about this keyboard.
I would most easy part with my money if they produced a "dust free" keyboard. Don't look too closely!
Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:4, Insightful)
They assume that the people buying the keyboard had (or at least typed on) one of the old ADB keyboards and remember how much they liked them.
Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:1)
I see the Apple command symbol on it. What photo are you looking at?
Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:1)
Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequence (Score:4, Informative)
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs which used an ADB keyboard but with Control next to the A and Caps Lock small and below the Shift key. (Nowadays keyboards for computers are arranged more for typing than for programming; if it weren't for Windows, the Control may have gone away entirely by now.) The Reset key lost its label. Command and Option were still the same game I/O button signals. Forced reboot became Control-Command-Reset.
Macs came to call Reset the Power key, as pressing it would cause the computer to power up unlike the IIgs, but they still had the triangle symbol as the IIgs used. The restart sequence became known as Control-Command-Power. Eventually morphed into a power button with the c- symbol on its back. Then it vanished from the keyboard entirely.
What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah! I'm shocked that people would forget that the apple keys were introduced on the Apple III. The IIe came later.
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs
This is _sort_ of correct, but skims over some things.
The option key was introduced on the Apple Lisa (which had a closed apple key as well). The Macintosh then kept the option key, but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often (it was used in Lisa
Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:2, Informative)
The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.
Susan Kare [kare.com] was asked to pick an abstract symbol. She found a sweedish campground map symbol [folklore.org] that's been in use ever since.
I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q".
(The IIgs keyb
Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:3, Interesting)
I stand corrected, though I admit, I could've sworn that one had crept in there by the time the Mac Plus keyboard had shown up.
(The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)
Well... at least by the time I was in the business of selling Macs, none of them but Performas and laptops came with any kind of keyboard. You had to seperately buy whichever sort you like
Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:2)
While I'm one of those bristly purists myself, I do find it pretty silly for Apple to have chosen to give this key two symbols, neither one of which is its name.
Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:1)
Bah! They will always be "open-apple" and "closed-apple" to me! (Apple owner since //e.)
- Jasen.Re:Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequen (Score:1)
Another note: the Open Apple and Closed Apple glyphs also lived in the MouseText characters available on the enhanced Apple
The command / propeller / flower / swedish campground feature symbol AFAIK never made it into MouseText be
Where's my Tux key? (Score:2)
Thinking about this from a trademark standpoint, this would make sense. Using the corporate logo as a command key makes every program seeking to display this key in menus getting branded with the Apple logo out of functional necessity, but could be misconstrued by the unwashed masses as an official endorsement of the software by Apple. Using something else eliminates such an implied endorsement. And not putting third-party applicatio
Apple Pro Keyboard Shortcuts 4 Shut Down & Res (Score:1)
According to this [apple.com] it's Control-Command-Eject. I've used that with Jaguar. It doesn't seem to work with Panther. But maybe my computer is foobar'd!
Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:2)
news? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:news? (Score:4, Funny)
Kensington Studioboard (Score:5, Informative)
Kensington has been selling a $90 keyboard like this for about a year now called the Studioboard -- in fact, it looks identical to the tactilepro keyboard, save that Kensington doesn't put the option and shift-option symbols on the keys. (I'm not sure whether the information value of that truly outweighs the clutter, but I know that's awfully subjective.)
I don't know whether Kensington uses the Alps switches, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of these keyboards are actually OEMed by the same company. It looks like Matias has just done a much better job of promotion than Kensington did. I've had one of the Studioboards for nearly six months now (I bought it when I bought my G5, a purchase in a moment of weakness at the Panther release party--10% off! Now it's only overpriced! Shiny!) and it's been great so far.
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:4, Informative)
Here's the product page for this keyboard: link [kensington.com].
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
I'm not trying to confrontational. I'm merely curious.
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
Slashdot community, bear witness: two individuals settled a misunderstanding WITHOUT need of obscenities OR yelling. See what happens when you keep a level head?
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
Still... this "communication" you reference... can you imagine a beow..
nevermind.
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
And I can certainly imagine a Beowulf cluster of "communication"!
Step 1: Get Beowulf cluster of "communication"
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!!!
Is that better?
Re:Kensington Studioboard (Score:1)
But... the noise... (Score:2)
Favorite kbds (Score:4, Interesting)
My other favorite was a natural style PC Concepts keyboard with the built in touchpad. I'd love to have one just like that again only with all the fancy extra buttons you see on keyboards now. I refuse to buy a Microsoft one since they can't even adhere to standards in a simple keyboard layout and the 6 is on the wrong side. I just can't get used to that. Hell, I don't feel like I should *have* to get used to it anyway!
Re:Favorite kbds (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:1)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:1)
The Apple Extended Keyboard DID NOT use the same keyswitches as the IBM keyboards. It had a bit softer feel (I always thought those old IBM KBs were a bit jarring to the fingers) and was MUCH quieter.
You could actually be in a room with one, and not think somebody was being machinegunned.
In my opinion, the Apple Extended Keyboard II was not only the best KB ever built by Apple, but the best KB every built - period.
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:5, Informative)
There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard", which included a full set of function keys (F1 - F15), two complete sets of modifier keys (control, option, command, shift), had a full set of navigation keys (home, end, ins, etc) and a proper layout for the directional arrows, and there were LEDs to display the status of caps and the other "locks". The ergonomics were improved with a 4 step incline adjustment and lots of spacing between sets of keys (function, alpha/num, numpad, nav, arrows). Basically the extended keyboard was a 101 key PC style keyboard built to Apple standards, and like a tank.
The extended keyboard has a very distinct feel, there is a significant amount of travel in the keys, so your fingers actually have to move to press them down and it's difficult to accidentally press a key without being difficult to hit the one you intend. Since the key switches are mechanical, there's a satisfying tactile response when you move the key and the switch connects, you can feel and hear that you are typing a character. This may not mean much to the people that "hunt and peck", but for touch typests, there's a rythm to typing and many times you can tell when you've messed something up just by listening to the rythym of the keys.
I should note that the extended keyboard is large, is has almost an inch of plastic around the left bottom and right of the keys, and several inches at the top where you could place templates for the function keys for different applications. It also weighs almost as much as am iBook.
I love the extended keyboard, and when I get my G5, I'll also be getting a USB-ADB adapter so I can use the extended keyboard on the new machine. I don't like the lightweight, light touch, short stroke keyboards Apple ships with the current systems, not at all.
They're freakin' huge, man! (Score:4, Funny)
I believe that one had an internal codename of Nimitz, as in aircraft carrier.
I think I've still got one or two in a closet (with F-Key template overlay!), if anybody really needs one. I've also still got a few of the original square ADB mice in there scratching at the walls.
Re:They're freakin' huge, man! (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
The bug is that when the computer wakes from sleep the first field is usually full of space characters. A simple select all and delete works around the problem.
In my investigations, people prefer the keyspan brand USB-ADB adpater. (I was also trying to get a Lightsource Colortron II to work in OS X...succeeded wi
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:1)
BTW, remember when macs didn't come with keyboards? Just a mouse. Fun.
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:5, Informative)
But the actual use of it was great, because of the tactile feedback (the keys sort of clicked just at the moment the input actually was sent -- sounds trivial, but on more modern computers it's a little lacking) and the audible "click" the keys made was also nice to have as an audible feedback (if you're transcribing texts and can't look at the screen, that's helpful).
So it's a lot of little stuff. Not something for everyone -- I sure as hell wouldn't go so far as to shell out $90 for it, and am satisfied with my current Apple USB keyboard with the G5 -- but some people really need that.
I do like the additional labels on the keys, though -- something that's sorely lacking on Apple's newer keyboards (especially the non-US ones).
My question is, does it come in non-American layouts? From what I saw on the site and article, there was no mention of other layouts at all. (The physical layout is usually the same, just the keys are rearranged and in some cases labelled differently for special characters.)
Cheers,
Ethelred
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
You could make them yourself with transparent Avery labels and any old inkjet or laser printer. Don't know if the toner would rub off, but you could try spraying the printed surface of the labels with spray fix (any office supply or art supply would have that) or cheap aerosol hair spray (that acts as a fixative as well) and letting it dry a while before putting them on your keys.
Cheers,
Ethelred
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:1)
Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is (Score:2)
In a word: yup.
You can get back the same functionality by activating the Keyboard menu -- which takes up real estate in the menu bar and has no other purpose for most people. This is yet another UI decision since OS X came out where a lot of people had to ask WTF Apple was thinking...
Cheers,
Ethelred
It's a subjective evaluation. (Score:4, Interesting)
On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know. But on the other hand, having endured six years of some of the worst Apple keyboard designs ever (beginning with the original iMac), perhaps anything is an improvement.
Re:It's a subjective evaluation. (Score:2)
Even the MacXL keyboard? I'm impressed.
Re:It's a subjective evaluation. (Score:1)
Re:It's a subjective evaluation. (Score:2)
> that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know.
Man, I still remember that hollow-echo noise that the original Macintosh 128k keyboard made. It was like typing in the shower.
The old Apple Extended keyboards were a little better since the Pro Keyboard (black keys) is a little squishy. I might pick up one of these new ones. Plus the Pro Keyboard seems to want to store crumbs and stuff inside it. I guess all keyboards do this, but the cl
Sun keyboard (Score:4, Informative)
I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:
http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process
or apparently here [amessciences.com] for $40.
You can even use the extra keys on Linux. [uni-passau.de]
Here's a picture. [lucksnet.or.jp]
Re:Sun keyboard (Score:1)
Re:Sun keyboard (Score:1)
Re:Sun keyboard (Score:1)
Only $100? (Score:3, Interesting)
This may be a very nice keyboard, but to me, it can't be $100 worth of nice. I'm personally eyeing an iceKey to replace my pro keyboard. The only reason I haven't bought one is that $50 seems a bit much for a keyboard.
Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered.
Re:Only $100? (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you ever hear about mechanics bitching that their Snap-On tools are too much money because they can get similar tools at Wal-Mart for a fraction the price?
Re:Only $100? (Score:2)
The best keyboard I bought was the Apple Adjustable Keyboard back in the days of ADB connectors. This cost me 168 (at the time around $250-300) and was worth every penny. It used the same Alps switches in it and the feel was fantastic. If I was in the market for a keyboard I would take a serious look at this.
I'm currently typing on a Dell keyboard. This is a membrane based one and has a similar feel to the
Question re: Spring Technologies (Score:2)
Regardless, if I had a Mac I'd buy one of those suckers in a second. I desperately miss the old clickety-clack of the Keyboards of Ancient Past.
Re:Question re: Spring Technologies (Score:2)
Got them in Dvorak? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does anybody know of a company that makes really high quality Dvorak keyboards?
Pop the keys off and rearrange them? (Score:1)
Re:Pop the keys off and rearrange them? (Score:1)
-Bruce
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|\|3+85D: f0r +3h r3a1 133+ h4x0r5!!!!!!!!!1 Those who know will attest! They will agree! They already use it! They will not use annoying hacker-esque stereotypes!
Re:Got them in Dvorak? (Score:2)
Try calling these guys (Score:1)
A high quality PC keyboard? (Score:2)
Re:A high quality PC keyboard? (Score:2, Informative)
ebay for "Mobel M"
Ebay for "Northgate"
Re:A high quality PC keyboard? (Score:2)
The "Customizer" model is a very nice keyboard, and reasonably priced at around $60. I bought one of the black ones, and absolutely love it.
It has the mechanical key switches, it's comfortable to use, and it is built like a tank.
I don't have any complaints with it, but my coworkers say it sounds like a machine gun when I type really quick.
Here's a picture of the black model that I have.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/images/ub20416-0.jpg [pckeyboard.com]
Re:A high quality PC keyboard? (Score:1)
Awesome, indeed! (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a problem with the keyboard about a month after the purchase -- it had a "5" and an "a" key that would sometimes double-up or not fire. Like Adam says in his review, this isn't uncommon at the beginning of the product's life. And the customer service at Matias didn't ask any questions and provided an RMA quickly.
In fact, using the Apple Pro keyboard while it's out for an exchange, is really hard now. It feels INCREDIBLY soft.
So, in spite of some problem keys, I highly recommend this product.
And to those cheap bastards who are saying: "$100 WTF?" -- ask yourself these questions: "How much time in a year do you spend at this keyboard? Is it worth a quarter a day to have a nice input device?" A comfy chair and keyboard are essential to my work environment.
-ch
Re:Awesome, indeed! (Score:2)
Now if only (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple needs to (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Apple needs to (Score:2)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?d
Scissor keyboard from Macally (Score:1)
Seriously (Score:1)
Neato! (Score:1)
The lack of mechanical switches has always been my complaint against the keyboards you can find now. And, maybe someone can help me out here, but weren't the Extended keyboards renowned for being built like a tank -- i.e., you couldn't break them if you tried?
I like the Apple Pro keyboard, but I loved the Extended keybo
Opposite. (Score:2)
Very short keytravel, and very quiet with keys close together so my fingers don't need to move very far...
I am just odd though...
It's one reason I like my Apple Pro keyboards as they feel more like a laptop keyboard than the ones that I have at my PCs at work...
Re:Opposite. (Score:1)
Any way to rig a Aluminum PowerBook keyboard for home use?
-jg
Re:Opposite. (Score:1)
MicroConnectors Mac Keyboards... (Score:4, Interesting)
Backlight? (Score:1)
Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.
I *really* *really* wish they would use that extra room in the 17" powerbook to put in an ergonomic keyboard... (I'll live with just the slant, and do without the tilt...)
-Robert
Re:Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:2)
Re:Need Ergonomic Saratoga (Score:1)
Same issue, same wish here.
FYI: While it's pretty far from an Apple product, the best ergo keyboard I've yet to try is the Logitech wireless. Beats the MS Natural Keyboard for comfort and key response.
Combine that with an original (late 90s) MS Intellimouse trackball and a Leap chair from Steelcase, and you have a recipe
Caps Lock (Score:2)
Sticky Caps Lock (Score:2)
One of the bigger failures of modern keyboards, including the USB Apple keyboards, is the lack of any kind of decent Caps Lock indication. The current Apple keyboards have a green LED on the caps lock key itself. Which is sort of cool, except that if your left hand is actually on the keyboard, you can't tell if you've got Caps Lock engaged or not (my hands are opaque). IIRC, the Apple Extended Keyboard II (what made a II a II, anyway?), had a Caps Lock key that stuck down when activated. It definitely a